Caduceus - staff of Hermes

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

 

 

 

 

" I'm Jesus Christ, whether you want to accept it or not" — Charles Manson

 

[Nungali]

 

 

 

For example ; take these beady little suspicious eyes  ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

one can easily see a life time of degradation and  debauchery  etched deep within the soul ;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[manitou]

 

 

Unfortunately we are mirrors of each other

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

Unfortunately we are mirrors of each other

 

Just like the two snakes on the caduceus  ?

[manitou]

On 9/30/2021 at 7:25 PM, Nungali said:

 

Just like the two snakes on the caduceus  ?

 

 

Badda-bing

[Pyramidalcow]

Same as the medicine symbol and kundalini. Medicine mocking you for giving out money to make your health worse. Also symbol of biblical serpeant. Thats symbol for level 4 mopai. But it does not go up to the head. It first goes along the arms and legs rumour says.

[Pyramidalcow]

On 31/08/2021 at 12:02 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

Referring to the OP, the way the serpent heads are shown from the side makes each of them resemble a single human eye.

 

The Hermes staff ending in a pair of eyes also seems in keeping with its attribution to the planets in their respective signs in the zodiac. On top of this scheme you find the Sun and the Moon, which are traditionally considered analogous to the eyes.

 

 

This is basically an abbreviated version of the latter from an alchemical book:

 

 

This view essentially regards the caduceus as a Hermetic equivalent to the shushumna, with ida and pingala being represented by the two serpents. 

 

 

Now if the serpent heads are meant to represent eyes, then perhaps their "beards" should be seen in connection with a feature which the Eye of Horus is often depicted with.

 

Anatomy of the pineal gland

[S:C]

On 1.10.2021 at 2:27 AM, manitou said:

 

 

Unfortunately we are mirrors of each other

A Koan: What is to be seen when two mirrors reflect each other? 

[Cobie]

 

2 minutes ago, S:C said:

… What is to be seen when two mirrors reflect each other? 

 

a smile 

 

 

Edited October 23 by Cobie

[Mark Foote]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:23 AM, Apech said:

The Caduceus is the origin of the mercury symbol used in astrology/astronomy :

 

 

- its just a simplified form of Hermes staff - and you can see where the horns come from.

 

Hermes (among other things) was the god of Heralds and was a psychopomp (guide to the dead).  

 

 

 

 

Isis and Nephthys.

So, you get your goddesses on either side, supporting what looks like the sacrum or the lowest vertbrae with their knees while resting on the equivalent of the ilio-tuberal ligaments, and supporting the space immediately above the sacrum with their mystical gestures (something to do with the arms and hands)--get the baboons giving their holy hallelujah up the ribs, wind up with a presence of mind like the sun held under the diaphragm.

Abbreviated in the symbol for Hermes, the sun indicated by the notan of the crescent?

 

IMHO. 

 

 

 

Edited October 28 by Mark Foote

[Nungali]

Mercury  ?   Up there  ^  ?    Thats a djed with an ankh  .  

Mercury <  Hermes  <  Thoth  <  Tahuti < Djethuti  < Ḏḥwtj <  /   ( Ibis -  like -   he who  ; The God who is like an Ibis )

Partnered with Ma'at  ('wife' ) .

 

I cant see the connection with the above  image

 

 

which would be ;

 

Sun - Ra, 'the' Sun or  as a determinative to refer to events of time.

^

Ka  hieroglyph  - (praised hands ) it can mean ‘soul’ and ‘self’ depending on its use, but it can also mean ‘life creation' .

^

Ankh - Life / offering to the Gods .

^

 Djed - Stability , support  ( a pillar )

 

Apech might want to correct this  though .

Edited October 29 by Nungali

[S:C]

Marks picture and all the old signs seem have rather a semblance to the classic pluto sign, instead of mercury…imo, but egyptians couldn’t have known that one, but might help with a different interpretation ? 

☿ vs 

(oh the Unicode sign is different now, what a surprise …  it used to be this one…

 

and what would support my conspiracy theory here, is another variant of the pluto sign, that is a united half moon in a sun… exoteric, esoteric, - maybe I should shush, even though I know nothing… really here, just guessing).

 

Edited October 29 by S:C

[Nungali]

?  

 

 

[S:C]

24 minutes ago, Nungali said:

?  

 

 

Indeed… editor wasn’t working. Well whatever, my mistake.

Edited October 29 by S:C

[S:C]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

Mercury <  Hermes  <  Thoth

Well, what? 
So Pluto < Hades < Anubis? 
 

This rings a bell with the long gone Khonsu mes thread… 

personal vs. transpersonal… huh. what do you make of this? 
 

On 12.10.2023 at 8:00 PM, Apech said:

You are right that both Thoth and Anubis have psychopomp roles.  In the case of Thoth it is about understanding the process and knowing the right words to use for the various things encountered.  You could call this getting the over view - or mapping the process if you like.  Anubis on the other hand is about applying sensitivity to subtle energy to be able to do certain transformations and navigate certain situations or environments you might encounter - a more on the ground approach if you like.

[Apech]

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

Mercury  ?   Up there  ^  ?    Thats a djed with an ankh  .  

Mercury <  Hermes  <  Thoth  <  Tahuti < Djethuti  < Ḏḥwtj <  /   ( Ibis -  like -   he who  ; The God who is like an Ibis )

Partnered with Ma'at  ('wife' ) .

 

I cant see the connection with the above  image

 

 

which would be ;

 

Sun - Ra, 'the' Sun or  as a determinative to refer to events of time.

^

Ka  hieroglyph  - (praised hands ) it can mean ‘soul’ and ‘self’ depending on its use, but it can also mean ‘life creation' .

^

Ankh - Life / offering to the Gods .

^

 Djed - Stability , support  ( a pillar )

 

Apech might want to correct this  though .

 

Mark's picture is of the sun disk being lifted up by 'life' = ankh from the eastern horizon (or sometimes confusingly 'out of the west').  The two goddesses are Isis and Nepthys who represent various things including the two mountains who form the horizon, the two towers of the temple gateway (which also represents the horizon) - the cycling of energy (up into the light with Isis and down into the dark with Nepthys) - which is a kind of gestation of the new sun.   The apes, sacred to Thoth, adore the rising sun ... which suggests the intellect adoring the 'real' if you like.  Or you could say the joy of the mind awakened by the rising sun. 

 

 

[Apech]

14 hours ago, S:C said:

Well, what? 
So Pluto < Hades < Anubis? 
 

This rings a bell with the long gone Khonsu mes thread… 

personal vs. transpersonal… huh. what do you make of this? 
 

 

What bells does it ring for you?

 

[S:C]

33 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

What bells does it ring for you?

 

It’s more patterns than words in classic oppositionals and linear logic but I’ll try… you mentioned they are both guides for the dead, Mercury would be the more personal one, while Pluto is a transpersonal.

It’s not only a connection with the balance of Sun and Moon (male/female) but also a needed balance in the other direction… or might be … at some point in a different ‘opposition’ of forces, I guess : 

Mercury represents rather male qualities, Pluto rather female ones in their approaches, imo&p both qualities need to be combined to navigate efficiently, sometimes with help along the way… 

if navigation serves well for the example, Mercury would be the guy on the top mast with the view on top and the maps and books at hand … to explore the territoire, so to speak, Pluto would take care of the sails, listens to the wind, his subconscious, music of the water ripples and waves and steer the direction. 

Don’t know if this is helpful to you, though.

 

Edited October 29 by S:C

[S:C]

On 30.8.2021 at 4:32 PM, Michael Sternbach said:

 

 

Is this really correct? Who’s the source?

Instead:

mercurial vs plutonian 

uranisian vs neptunian

jupiterian vs saturnian

marsian vs venusian

sunnish vs moonish

forces… as in oppositional qualities , no? alright then, no.

 

Edited October 29 by S:C

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, S:C said:

Indeed… editor wasn’t working. Well whatever, my mistake.

 

No, its not that .  I am looking at the  vertical order of shapes in the symbol compared to the vertical oder of shapes in the picture of the Djed , etc .

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, S:C said:

Well, what? 
So Pluto < Hades < Anubis? 

 

The 'what' is   ; Mercury ( the sign )  relates to Djehuti  and I dont see that in the image   ( it was a comment on  what  Mark posted - which I thought he WAS seeing a comparison  to )

 

This rings a bell with the long gone Khonsu mes thread… 

personal vs. transpersonal… huh. what do you make of this? 

 

Seems good to me .
 

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

Mark's picture is of the sun disk being lifted up by 'life' = ankh from the eastern horizon (or sometimes confusingly 'out of the west').  The two goddesses are Isis and Nepthys who represent various things including the two mountains who form the horizon, the two towers of the temple gateway (which also represents the horizon) - the cycling of energy (up into the light with Isis and down into the dark with Nepthys) - which is a kind of gestation of the new sun.   The apes, sacred to Thoth, adore the rising sun ... which suggests the intellect adoring the 'real' if you like.  Or you could say the joy of the mind awakened by the rising sun. 

 

 

 

Thanks .   I see it more like that than any relationship (even shape wise ) to the glyph of mercury

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, S:C said:

It’s more patterns than words in classic oppositionals and linear logic but I’ll try… you mentioned they are both guides for the dead, Mercury would be the more personal one, while Pluto is a transpersonal.

 

IS Pluto a guide for the dead though ? He was the ruler of the underworld , not a guide  for the dead .  regarding personal / transpersonal, I am not sure what you mean . In astrology the 'personal ' planet Mercury has  a higher 'octive' to the transpersonal in Uranus .  Pluto's transpersonal  , personal counterpart is Mars .  (and Venus,  Neptune  )

 

 

It’s not only a connection with the balance of Sun and Moon (male/female) but also a needed balance in the other direction… or might be … at some point in a different ‘opposition’ of forces, I guess : 

 

I see it like this :

 

 The personal  (inner )   planets  are set in a triangular relationship (mercury at the top , Mars and Venus as base line ) and Moon in the middle ; this is unconsciousness  ( drives, etc ) with Moon in the middle .  Mercury is the way 'go up, break out into consciousness and is linked with the Sun (ego )    and Sun and Moon  (a n aspect of male and female as Venus and Mars are ) linked

 

this then 'goes up' through the 'regulating gate  of the  Saturn Jupiter  polarity  and above that is the higher octave transperonal (outer planets ) triangle .    We can draw various horizontals through this,  making variant groups  which describe 'unconscious . consciousness and super consciousness  .

 

Its a LOT easier to explain with a diagram    (it looks a bit like The Tree of Life    ... but SHHHHHHH    - Daniel might hear this and turn up     )

 

 

Mercury represents rather male qualities

 

Yes, but there is certainly an androgynous element in there . Mars is the 'man planet ' ., Venus the woman one . Hence the triangle of personal planets .

 

, Pluto rather female ones in their approaches, imo&p both qualities need to be combined to navigate efficiently, sometimes with help along the way… 

 

Regarding approach Pluto is rather male IMO  I mean look at his abduction and rape of Persephone , in cahoots with another big male Zeuss , whi knew all about it , but 'Boys will be boys "   And although Neptune is most depicted as mnnale, the energy seems very female to me  .

 

if navigation serves well for the example, Mercury would be the guy on the top mast with the view on top and the maps and books at hand … to explore the territoire, so to speak, Pluto would take care of the sails, listens to the wind, his subconscious, music of the water ripples and waves and steer the direction. 

 

Love this !  Not because of the God attribution but due to the imagery  and how it works  with 'navigating the self' over the 'great sea ' . Its the first part of a ritual I did 4 x daily , for a loooooong period, every day ; ' adoration at the stations of the sun ;

 

" Let him greet the Sun at dawn, facing East, giving the sign of his grade. And let him say in a loud voice:
Hail unto Thee who art Ra in Thy rising, even unto Thee who art Ra in Thy strength, who travellest over the Heavens in Thy bark at the Uprising of the Sun.
Tahuti standeth in His splendour at the prow, and Ra-Hoor abideth at the helm.

 

( then it goes onto the other parts of the ritual )

 

The God in the bark changes according dawn, noon, sunset and midnight but 

Tahuti standeth in His splendour at the prow, and Ra-Hoor abideth at the helm. does not change  I see  tahuti at the prow  (mercury ), that part of our psyshe that 'tahuti ' represents , and at the helm is the strong force of the steering and will, that follows the direction of the 'visionary navigator ' at the helm ,

Don’t know if this is helpful to you, though.

 

 

It seems very insightful  and close to 'Liber Resh ' ( the above ritual .)

 

 

Edited October 29 by Nungali

[Mark Foote]

 

It's an odd prescription, that Isis/Nepthys painting. 

 

Especially if I sit my sloppy half-lotus (ankle on opposing calf) with the  left leg uppermost, I seem to have to find activity in the abdominals associated with each leg and the arms relatively quickly.  Something I missed when I was first learning to walk, I think--hope for me yet!  

 

Sometimes I look to the pool of water fed by a spring that Gautama described, when the action is particularly in the lower half of the abdomen (shades of Isis and Nepthys), but if I come back to coordination of the activity of the body by the free location of consciousness, I usually wind up balanced under the diaphragm as in the Isis/Nepthys painting.  The activity there is often controlled by the stretch of ligaments between 1st and 2nd lumbar.

 

The apes, activity in the transverse abdominals.

When I'm really out of my mind, I can now:

 

1) Relax the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation;

2) Find a feeling of ease and calm the senses connected with balance, in inhalation and exhalation;

3) Appreciate and detach from thought, in inhalation and exhalation;

4) Look to the free location of consciousness for the automatic activity of inhalation and exhalation.

 

(Applying the Pali Instructions)

 

and stay out of my mind a little longer, IME...  Y, IDK... WTF!
 

 

 

 

Edited October 29 by Mark Foote

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, S:C said:

Is this really correct? Who’s the source?

Instead:

mercurial vs plutonian 

uranisian vs neptunian

jupiterian vs saturnian

marsian vs venusian

sunnish vs moonish

forces… as in oppositional qualities , no? alright then, no.

 

 

Michael's diagram  shows the  classical  planetary house rulers , so its right in that regard . Then it attributes the to chakras   I dont see any Vs in there ?  Where are you seeing one thing versus or in polarity to another in that diagram .  if anything we could say  a sign attributed to a planet VS the other sign attributed  to the same planet .  I am not sure I a following you here ?

 

I dont understand the Vs  thing .   I see it as ;

 

Instead:

mercurial  modulates the Venus Mars polarity .

uranisian  neptunian  polarity

jupiterian  saturnian polarity

marsian  venusian polarity

sunnish  moonish polarity .