Your opinion about reiki?

[Dev]

I'm interested to know what the daoist interpretation of reiki is, which forms of chi, yin/yang, how and why?

My understanding of reiki is that it is 'divine' energy (from the heavens?) flowing through the person acting as a medium, in order to heal the receiver

[freeform]

In my experience genuine Daoist Neigong/qigong are incompatible with Reiki.

 

Reiki does work - in the sense that there is definitely a transmission that occurs.

But from my experience it’s not just ‘divine’ energy that’s transmitted - a lot of personal energy is too. (This was my experience even with quite long term serious reiki practitioners).

 

The way Qi is transferred is the one with more Qi will always transfer to one with less Qi.

 

So I’ve always felt a little depleted after getting a reiki session… and I’d have to then release whatever pathogenic qi was also transmitted.

 

I’ve found that once you build a lot of Qi and it ‘fills’ your body, it is very hard to get any kind of therapy - massage, tui na, reiki, craniosacral, even bone setting and stuff like that.

 

In almost all situations the net effect is negative for me. Even with acupuncture, the therapist must be in good health themselves - or I end up depleted and with some xie Qi that needs clearing out.

 

I think in the beginning Reiki is probably fine.
 

I’m not sure if the negative effects just happen when there’s a disproportionate difference in Qi level between therapist and patient… or if it happens normally too (and just goes unnoticed).

[Dev]

2 minutes ago, freeform said:

xie Qi

 

What is xie Qi? 

3 minutes ago, freeform said:

But from my experience it’s not just ‘divine’ energy that’s transmitted - a lot of personal energy is too. (This was my experience even with quite long term serious reiki practitioners)

 

This makes sense, I've heard of so many reiki practitioners taking on the illnesses of their clients, and developing cancer etc. I'm guessing that those are practitioners with smaller amounts of chi

4 minutes ago, freeform said:

I’ve found that once you build a lot of Qi and it ‘fills’ your body, it is very hard to get any kind of therapy - massage, tui na, reiki, craniosacral, even bone setting and stuff like that.

 

Are you not able to contain your qi and stop it from flowing into someone else's body?

[freeform]

42 minutes ago, Dev said:

What is xie Qi?

Oh - like pathogenic Qi.

 

43 minutes ago, Dev said:

I'm guessing that those are practitioners with smaller amounts of chi

Even when there’s no strong flow of Qi from one to another, fields interact and things can get passed through in a therapeutic setting.

 

44 minutes ago, Dev said:

Are you not able to contain your qi and stop it from flowing into someone else's body?

Well when you’re in a therapeutic setting, you’re meant to let things flow - otherwise what’s the point

 

But there’s always some interaction of Qi - despite what some teachers say, I’ve not found it possible to ‘shield’ my Qi away from others consistently. Maybe at a later stage that becomes possible? But at the moment, even when my energy field isn’t expanded, there’s still always a bit of Qi exchange.

 

But I don’t mind leaking a little Qi if it benefits others in some way. Especially if they’re low and drained and it’s impacting their health (which is generally when their energy body actively ‘sucks up’ Qi from outside).

Some people can be slightly ‘vampiric’ in a sense - and they suck up Qi to power an internal emotional process rather than their health. That’s not so helpful (for them or for me) - so I try to avoid them… but never too strictly.

 

When my cultivation requires an abundance of Qi, I take a retreat. Otherwise I’m happy to share if it’s of benefit.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

Well when you’re in a therapeutic setting, you’re meant to let things flow - otherwise what’s the point

Ahah yes that's a good point...

 

2 hours ago, freeform said:

But I don’t mind leaking a little Qi if it benefits others in some way. Especially if they’re low and drained and it’s impacting their health (which is generally when their energy body actively ‘sucks up’ Qi from outside).

Yeah fair enough

 

2 hours ago, freeform said:

so I try to avoid them… but never too strictly.

How very daoist of you

 

2 hours ago, freeform said:

Maybe at a later stage that becomes possible?

May I ask what lineage/tradition you align yourself with?

 

Also another question: a large part of the reason that i wanted to get into nei'gong (apart from my drive for self mastery and enjoyment of meditation and technical arts) is to be able to use it for healing purposes (i first heard about nei'kung through ring of fire & kostas books, how stereotypical of me). I'm trying to learn every different form of healing that i can (sound, psychedelic, massage, hatha yoga, nutrition, physical detoxs, psychology etc), and integrate them all into a retreat system, to be fully holistic. I of course know that healing others is done in mo pai, but what of other traditions? Because in the mo pai system you accumulate much more chi than in the other systems (from what I've read), and i would imagine that this would make it a lot more sustainable to heal people? Do other lineages still have powerful healing practices/abilities?

[Earl Grey]

3 minutes ago, Dev said:

in the mo pai system you accumulate much more chi than in the other systems (from what I've read), and i would imagine that this would make it a lot more sustainable to heal people? Do other lineages still have powerful healing practices/abilities?

 

Avoid Mo Pai unless you are actually part of the lineage in Java. 

 

Do this instead: 

 

[senseless virtue]

49 minutes ago, Dev said:

Because in the mo pai system you accumulate much more chi than in the other systems (from what I've read), and i would imagine that this would make it a lot more sustainable to heal people?

 

Much speculation and hearsay, I'm afraid.

 

People are too attached to systems, names, and impressing sounding phenomena. It's as if spiritual cultivation is imagined to be like pumping iron and growing big muscles. It's ironic because detachment and formless wisdom generally is essential to accumulating virtues and harmonious energy in the most beneficial manner.

 

49 minutes ago, Dev said:

Do other lineages still have powerful healing practices/abilities?

 

Of course. But, you should consider your motives. Why are you interested in getting involved with other people's karma? You have already read freeform's experience; are you prepared for and wanting those consequences? 

[forestofclarity]

Some food for thought:

Spoiler

 

 

[Dev]

4 minutes ago, virtue said:

Of course. But, you should consider your motives. Why are you interested in getting involved with other people's karma?

 

I'm well aware that interacting with other people's karma generates a large amount of karma yourself, but honestly, I'm not seeking to live a completely karma free life. I love people, and I want them to flourish. The way i see it is like this - each and every cell in your body is a conscious individual, and works in harmony with all the other cells, they are one - if they didn't, you would die. Similarly, humans form a collective consciousness, an organism - humanity. And every other species of animal, plant and fungus on earth comprise the 'cells' of the biggest organism - earth. They're just different cosms, each a different scale. I love earth, humans, and all the other critters, and if we aren't functioning properly, society will fail, and earth will slowly be destroyed (as it already is). So I've dedicated my path to healing people, but also teaching people to heal themselves. I will of course look after myself and ensure my health, but I have a bigger picture in mind than me. I will still play it as it comes - if i decide that i can do more by keeping my chi to myself and harnessing it for other activities, then that's what i will do. If I feel that what I do isn't having the desired effect, i will change it up. Nothing is set in stone, right now I'm just trying to empower myself as much as possible so that i can do what i need to do, when i need to do it.

 

18 minutes ago, virtue said:

Much speculation and hearsay, I'm afraid.

 

People are too attached to systems, names, and impressing sounding phenomena. It's as if spiritual cultivation is imagined to be like pumping iron and growing big muscles. It's ironic because detachment and formless wisdom generally is essential to accumulating virtues and harmonious energy in the most beneficial manner.

 

Yeah I have definitely started to realise how flawed the whole perception of the mo pai is - now that i've started to read damo's "a comprehensive guide to nei'kung", he actually seems to know what he's talking about. I'm glad to hear that though. It's funny that people now have to decondition from 'mo pai' like they had to decondition from their parents once they left home, the first perspective you get on a world is rarely the correct one.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Do this instead: 

 

Thanks! That's super helpful

[Dev]

10 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

Some food for thought:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

Lovely, thanks  

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Dev

[Master Logray]

24 minutes ago, Dev said:

 So I've dedicated my path to healing people, but also teaching people to heal themselves. I will of course look after myself and ensure my health, but I have a bigger picture in mind than me. I will still play it as it comes - if i decide that i can do more by keeping my chi to myself and harnessing it for other activities, then that's what i will do. If I feel that what I do isn't having the desired effect, i will change it up. Nothing is set in stone, right now I'm just trying to empower myself as much as possible so that i can do what i need to do, when i need to do it.

 

If your objective is to start a business on modern healing, then your thinking is quite reasonable.  But to achieve a high level of Chi that is capable of changing the course of a sickness, a lot of internal trainings is needed.  These level of trainings require you to have a solitary lifestyle and mindset, that do not fit the requirements of being "professional" or "regular" healer.  Traditionally people rather take up Chinese medicine for actual healing, perhaps in conjunction with their Chi training.  It is more effective and efficient.

[freeform]

To be able to use Qi emission of any type for healing you really need to understand Chinese medicine to a deep level. 
 

It’s quite possible to hurt people with Qi emission.

[Dev]

49 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

If your objective is to start a business on modern healing, then your thinking is quite reasonable.  But to achieve a high level of Chi that is capable of changing the course of a sickness, a lot of internal trainings is needed.  These level of trainings require you to have a solitary lifestyle and mindset, that do not fit the requirements of being "professional" or "regular" healer.  Traditionally people rather take up Chinese medicine for actual healing, perhaps in conjunction with their Chi training.  It is more effective and efficient.

 

That is true, but at the same time, I do really enjoy meditating in solitude. My plan is to start a few retreats, hiring teachers/healers i trust to work at them, and hire someone to manage them in terms of business. Then I will have plenty of time to spend in retreats, doing proper internal work, with a consistent cash flow supporting me. That way I can work and heal when I have time, and otherwise take as much time as i need to work on myself. I also do actually want to study TCM, I've been reading into it. I think I might do a degree later on in my life (i will of course reserve healing with qi for after this), it's just quite a long degree. But I will see what happens later in life. Either way, I will take @freeform's advice and study TCM before i attempt to heal anyone with Qi, that's only reasonable and responsible

[freeform]

5 minutes ago, Dev said:

it's just quite a long degree.

It takes very long to be able to predictably emit Qi too - way longer than the degree probably.

 

But good TCM will help you understand the context of all the other healing stuff and how everything works together holistically.

[Dev]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

It takes very long to be able to predictably emit Qi too - way longer than the degree probably.

 

But good TCM will help you understand the context of all the other healing stuff and how everything works together holistically.

 

Yeah that's true, although studying something is different to practicing something that you would happily do anyway, and arguably takes up more time of the day (unless you are in retreat and practicing nei'gong the whole day every day). In Damo's comp. guide to nei'kung he touches on some TCM, i found that really helpful to understanding the whole process of nei'kung. I definitely am going to self-study and learn as much TCM as possible now, also because then maybe if i study it in 20 years time or something I'll have a large foundation and will fly through the degree

[cheya]

3 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Some food for thought:  [Qi Emission Quackery, Damo Mitchell]

 

 

This was really helpful to watch. Thank you!

[anshino23]

If you can learn Reiki Healing in a weekend course ... which it seems you can, you really have to question the validity and especially the benefit of anything sold as a Reiki healing nowadays to themselves and others. Perhaps hundreds of years ago by an authentic reiki master that was brimming with healthy Qi that is something else... But reiki in 2021? Forgettaboutit. 

 

From what I've seen from every single one of my patients and also myself included... the only way you can really heal people or yourself is by changing their/your habits. Habits of thought, habits of eating, habits of doing. That takes work + time + consistency.

 

If you have access to a master herbalist and Qi emitting healer that is well-versed in Classical Chinese Medicine and is incredibly skilled in the internal arts as well - well, maybe you can get some miracles going for people that can change that whole thing on its head. But outside of that, I am very doubtful. In most cases there are karmic causes (see the habits above) that will not allow any healing to be genuine and long-term unless and until the above is addressed.

 

For those reasons (and the many freeform list above), I would not put my eggs in that basket. 

 

Quote

I'm trying to learn every different form of healing that i can (sound, psychedelic, massage, hatha yoga, nutrition, physical detoxs, psychology etc)

 

Very dangerous approach IMHO. Each of those things requires a level of expertise that is not often found and certainly not quickly attained. The best thing would be to learn one modality really well like Chinese medicine, and then aim to add others on top at a later point in time when you've already mastered (or at least become proficient in one of them). To combine or try to learn all at the same time at a cursory superficial level may prove dangerous to the patients IMHO. 

 

"Welcome [sick person]. Today we're going to put you in a soundbath while you take these magic mushrooms or LSD (your choice). After a few hours you'll get an acupuncture session while we have Reiki healers that emit Qi into your body blessing your body leaving you fully rejuvenated and healed on the deepest soul level. When you've finished that we will take you through a guided Hatha Yoga session where we will do intense breathing exercises that move Qi to your head leading to full enlightenment. Secret methods that only the Yogis sworn to secrecy have finally revealed. Tomorrow we'll do an enema to detox all you have purged."

 

Yikes. There are probably already places like that. I guess for some that sounds fun?

 

Anyway. Just my two cents. Best of luck  

[forestofclarity]

2 hours ago, anshino23 said:

"Welcome [sick person]. Today we're going to put you in a soundbath while you take these magic mushrooms or LSD (your choice). After a few hours you'll get an acupuncture session while we have Reiki healers that emit Qi into your body blessing your body leaving you fully rejuvenated and healed on the deepest soul level. When you've finished that we will take you through a guided Hatha Yoga session where we will do intense breathing exercises that move Qi to your head leading to full enlightenment. Secret methods that only the Yogis sworn to secrecy have finally revealed. Tomorrow we'll do an enema to detox all you have purged."

 

Sounds like about 75% of the alternative healing places in Boulder, Colorado. 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by forestofemptiness

[Master Logray]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

It takes very long to be able to predictably emit Qi too - way longer than the degree probably.

 

But good TCM will help you understand the context of all the other healing stuff and how everything works together holistically.

 

Not longer than " start a few retreats, hiring teachers/healers i trust to work at them, and hire someone to manage them in terms of business. .....with a consistent cash flow supporting me".

[Earl Grey]

9 hours ago, anshino23 said:

If you can learn Reiki Healing in a weekend course ... which it seems you can, you really have to question the validity and especially the benefit of anything sold as a Reiki healing nowadays to themselves and others. Perhaps hundreds of years ago by an authentic reiki master that was brimming with healthy Qi that is something else... But reiki in 2021? Forgettaboutit. 

 

I was accidentally brought into it in Cambodia when my neighbor from Marseilles kept pushing it, and his friend from Normandy introduced himself to me and wanted me to be his first student. It brought in a little more income when he had me occasionally heal patients at his spa when I wasn't working in the hospital as a grants coordinator, but I didn't find it anything special. Six months later, I was invited to do level 2, and he treated it like it was some big life-changing event. Maybe it was, but in general, I rarely talked about Reiki wherever I traveled, and if I mentioned it to a couple friends, suddenly, everyone knew about it and was asking for healing. This was when I was still in my early days of qigong and Taijiquan, with a teacher whom I no longer have any desire to have anything to do with, as it was just the year before I met Dolic and Rodriguez, and a good two years before Dunn. 

 

My teacher from Normandy did tell me to be very careful of Reiki "masters" because he said nobody could initiate anyone into Reiki by distance, it's not possible according to his teacher. Then I saw people who were offering level 1 and 2 simultaneously online, as though they don't allow the energy to settle and changes to be made and observed between levels. Then I saw a woman who claimed she became a master in one month of online training. Finally, I saw people charging thousands of dollars in Las Vegas for Reiki Yoga, and in Manila, Reiki people offering workshops like Crystal Reiki, Angel Reiki, Abundance Reiki, and creating their own symbols from Wicca...

 

There's more that I will probably not discuss here because I have become very disillusioned with what Reiki does to about 95% of its practitioners and its clients, not to mention energetic and spiritual danger that comes from joining that circle (will only discuss by PM, but don't expect a quick response). 

 

10 hours ago, anshino23 said:

From what I've seen from every single one of my patients and also myself included... the only way you can really heal people or yourself is by changing their/your habits. Habits of thought, habits of eating, habits of doing. That takes work + time + consistency.

 

100%. 

 

10 hours ago, anshino23 said:

If you have access to a master herbalist and Qi emitting healer that is well-versed in Classical Chinese Medicine and is incredibly skilled in the internal arts as well - well, maybe you can get some miracles going for people that can change that whole thing on its head. But outside of that, I am very doubtful. In most cases there are karmic causes (see the habits above) that will not allow any healing to be genuine and long-term unless and until the above is addressed.

 

Let's hope that people can tell the difference between good herbs and the essential oil mass market scam too. 

 

10 hours ago, anshino23 said:

Very dangerous approach IMHO. Each of those things requires a level of expertise that is not often found and certainly not quickly attained. The best thing would be to learn one modality really well like Chinese medicine, and then aim to add others on top at a later point in time when you've already mastered (or at least become proficient in one of them). To combine or try to learn all at the same time at a cursory superficial level may prove dangerous to the patients IMHO. 

 

One of my favorite quotes from Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus! trilogy:

 

"Never whistle while pissing. Why shoot two different targets with a single arrow when you can't even hit one without total focus? A divided mind is easily conquered."

 

 

[Earl Grey]

7 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Sounds like about 75% of the alternative healing places in Boulder, Colorado. 

 

 

Walk around the Las Vegas Strip and even all the way into Henderson, Santa Monica and Venice, Siem Reap, Cambodia, the University of the Philippines area of Manila, and some parts of the San Francisco Bay Area, and I guarantee you'll find the same things you describe as in Boulder. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Earl Grey

[Dev]

10 hours ago, anshino23 said:

If you can learn Reiki Healing in a weekend course ... which it seems you can, you really have to question the validity and especially the benefit of anything sold as a Reiki healing nowadays to themselves and others. Perhaps hundreds of years ago by an authentic reiki master that was brimming with healthy Qi that is something else... But reiki in 2021? Forgettaboutit. 

 

From what I've seen from every single one of my patients and also myself included... the only way you can really heal people or yourself is by changing their/your habits. Habits of thought, habits of eating, habits of doing. That takes work + time + consistency.

 

If you have access to a master herbalist and Qi emitting healer that is well-versed in Classical Chinese Medicine and is incredibly skilled in the internal arts as well - well, maybe you can get some miracles going for people that can change that whole thing on its head. But outside of that, I am very doubtful. In most cases there are karmic causes (see the habits above) that will not allow any healing to be genuine and long-term unless and until the above is addressed.

 

For those reasons (and the many freeform list above), I would not put my eggs in that basket. 

 

 

Very dangerous approach IMHO. Each of those things requires a level of expertise that is not often found and certainly not quickly attained. The best thing would be to learn one modality really well like Chinese medicine, and then aim to add others on top at a later point in time when you've already mastered (or at least become proficient in one of them). To combine or try to learn all at the same time at a cursory superficial level may prove dangerous to the patients IMHO. 

 

"Welcome [sick person]. Today we're going to put you in a soundbath while you take these magic mushrooms or LSD (your choice). After a few hours you'll get an acupuncture session while we have Reiki healers that emit Qi into your body blessing your body leaving you fully rejuvenated and healed on the deepest soul level. When you've finished that we will take you through a guided Hatha Yoga session where we will do intense breathing exercises that move Qi to your head leading to full enlightenment. Secret methods that only the Yogis sworn to secrecy have finally revealed. Tomorrow we'll do an enema to detox all you have purged."

 

Yikes. There are probably already places like that. I guess for some that sounds fun?

 

Anyway. Just my two cents. Best of luck  

 

It's not something I'm going to rush into, i might only fully achieve it in old ageGoing to take it step by step, mastering one thing at a time. Also, it would be drawn over the space of 2 weeks or so, not all at onceAlso, i understand that people's illnesses are a result of their karma, which is why i don't just want to "heal" because that won't last, but rather heal and teach people to heal themselves

[Dev]

19 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

I was accidentally brought into it in Cambodia when my neighbor from Marseilles kept pushing it, and his friend from Normandy introduced himself to me and wanted me to be his first student. It brought in a little more income when he had me occasionally heal patients at his spa when I wasn't working in the hospital as a grants coordinator, but I didn't find it anything special. Six months later, I was invited to do level 2, and he treated it like it was some big life-changing event. Maybe it was, but in general, I rarely talked about Reiki wherever I traveled, and if I mentioned it to a couple friends, suddenly, everyone knew about it and was asking for healing. This was when I was still in my early days of qigong and Taijiquan, with a teacher whom I no longer have any desire to have anything to do with, as it was just the year before I met Dolic and Rodriguez, and a good two years before Dunn. 

 

My teacher from Normandy did tell me to be very careful of Reiki "masters" because he said nobody could initiate anyone into Reiki by distance, it's not possible according to his teacher. Then I saw people who were offering level 1 and 2 simultaneously online, as though they don't allow the energy to settle and changes to be made and observed between levels. Then I saw a woman who claimed she became a master in one month of online training. Finally, I saw people charging thousands of dollars in Las Vegas for Reiki Yoga, and in Manila, Reiki people offering workshops like Crystal Reiki, Angel Reiki, Abundance Reiki, and creating their own symbols from Wicca...

 

There's more that I will probably not discuss here because I have become very disillusioned with what Reiki does to about 95% of its practitioners and its clients, not to mention energetic and spiritual danger that comes from joining that circle (will only discuss by PM, but don't expect a quick response). 

 

 

100%. 

 

 

Let's hope that people can tell the difference between good herbs and the essential oil mass market scam too. 

 

 

One of my favorite quotes from Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus! trilogy:

 

"Never whistle while pissing. Why shoot two different targets with a single arrow when you can't even hit one without total focus? A divided mind is easily conquered."

 

 

 

Yeah that's a very good point. There are so many underqualified "reiki masters" out there. I think the only way would be to go to china

and find an actual reiki master

20 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

"Never whistle while pissing. Why shoot two different targets with a single arrow when you can't even hit one without total focus? A divided mind is easily conquered."

 

True, but I never said i was going to rush into it. I definitely won't offer any services until i know that I am way past qualified to offer them. I'm going to start off with just psychedelic assisted psychotherapy, and add on more modalities as i master them/become proficient enough to offer them throughout my life. Not going to put people in danger

[Dev]

10 hours ago, anshino23 said:

From what I've seen from every single one of my patients and also myself included... the only way you can really heal people or yourself is by changing their/your habits. Habits of thought, habits of eating, habits of doing. That takes work + time + consistency.

 

That is also most of what a proper psychotherapist (and counsellor) is supposed to do. Psychotherapy is definitely going to be my baseline, the other practices will add on to that, for this exact reason