Confucianism for beginners (and dummies too)

[Miroku]

Hi, 

 

if a person wants to open the world of Confucian thought what would you suggest to read/watch? Is there some confucian teacher that shares some legit thoughts online in english? I have a translation of Analecta at hom and plan to give it a nice read, but it is not the easiest reading.

[senseless virtue]

Shanrendao is a very important modern neo-Confucian school that also incorporates some Daoist and Buddhist teachings. Seek out the books of the founder, Wang Fengyi, for the best overall introduction for Chinese internal arts.

 

Of more practical benefit is the great book by Liu Yousheng, Let the Radiant Yang Shine Forth: Lectures on Virtue. If I ever formally teach anything in internal arts, then reading this book will be the mandatory first step for the students. It's simply that good.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

A good place to start is:

The Ruist Association of America

 

Ruist and Ruism, from the Chinese 儒, rú, for Scholar and especially Confucian, are the "in" academic names for Confucians and Confucianism these days.

 

I don't have much time now, but I will post more as I can.

 

ZYD

 

 

Edit: added parentheses to get "in".

Edited September 3, 2021 by Zhongyongdaoist
in was not "in", thus incorrect

[Zhongyongdaoist]

On 9/2/2021 at 12:49 PM, Miroku said:

I have a translation of Analecta at hom and plan to give it a nice read, but it is not the easiest reading.

 

Starting to study Confucius by reading the Analects only leads to what I have humorously called:

The Mystery of Confucius

Which is, why would the author of such a boring and pedantic work as the Analects inspire his last patron, Duke Ai of Yu to do this:

 

Quote

The largest and oldest Temple of Confucius is found in Confucius' hometown, present-day Qufu in Shandong Province. It was established in 479 BC, one year after Confucius's death, at the order of the Duke Ai of the State of Lu, who commanded that the Confucian residence should be used to worship and offer sacrifice to Confucius. The temple was expanded repeatedly over a period of more than 2,000 years until it became the huge complex currently standing. There is another temple in Quzhou. In addition to Confucian temples associated with the state cult of Confucius, there were also ancestral temples belonging to the Kong lineage, buildings commemorating Confucius's deeds throughout China, and private temples within academies.  (Wikipedia, Temple of Confucius, emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

Yep, this is it guys and gals:

ain't it Grand?

 

What kind of person must Confucius have been to inspire such an action on the part of a Spring and Autumn period Feudal Lord?

 

A useful place to start to answer that question might be in this text:

 

儒行 - Ru Xing

 

The purported record of a session in which Confucius expounds on "The Nature of the Scholar" to Duke Ai.  It is important enough to be part of the Liji, the Book of Rites along with two other texts the

 

中庸 - Zhong Yong

(Does that title sound at all familiar?  ZYD)

 

and

 

大學 - Da Xue

 

Which are much better Places to go to get some insight into Confucianism.

 

It is also a good idea to study the concept of Ren, 仁, meaning, usually reduced to "humaneness", and in particular this etymology of it:

 

Quote

Another common interpretation of the graphical elements is Man or a man connecting Heaven and Earth. (Wikipedia, Ren (Confucianism), emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

For now with these little hints, I leave the reader to contemplate:

The Mystery of Confucius

While I try to find time to write more.

 

ZYD

[Miroku]

16 hours ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

 

Starting to study Confucius by reading the Analects only leads to what I have humorously called:

The Mystery of Confucius

Which is, why would the author of such a boring and pedantic work as the Analects inspire his last patron, Duke Ai of Yu to do this:

 

 

Yep, this is it guys and gals:

ain't it Grand?

 

What kind of person must Confucius have been to inspire such an action on the part of a Spring and Autumn period Feudal Lord?

 

A useful place to start to answer that question might be in this text:

 

儒行 - Ru Xing

 

The purported record of a session in which Confucius expounds on "The Nature of the Scholar" to Duke Ai.  It is important enough to be part of the Liji, the Book of Rites along with two other texts the

 

中庸 - Zhong Yong

(Does that title sound at all familiar?  ZYD)

 

and

 

大學 - Da Xue

 

Which are much better Places to go to get some insight into Confucianism.

 

It is also a good idea to study the concept of Ren, 仁, meaning, usually reduced to "humaneness", and in particular this etymology of it:

 

 

For now with these little hints, I leave the reader to contemplate:

The Mystery of Confucius

While I try to find time to write more.

 

ZYD

Wow thanks! This is super interesting please keep them coming!

 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

1 hour ago, Miroku said:

Wow thanks! This is super interesting please keep them coming!

 

You're certainly welcome,  I try to shed a little light on things when I can, and sometimes I even succeed.  I will do my best to follow through, and help explicate the Mystery of Confucius as best as I can.

 

In order to understand more of the Mystery of Confucius you need to become familiar with two people, who are the most important exponents and developers of Confucian thought in the Waring States period, they are:

 

Our Hero:

Mèng Kē, Mengzi, Mencius

and our Villain:

Xun Kuang, Xunzi

 

Now in one sense I am being as unfair to Xunzi, as I have been to the Analects, but the reason for characterizing him as a villain comes from this oversimplification about his and Mencius view on Human Nature.  For Mencius Human Nature was fundamentally good, and the purpose of Confucian teaching was to help people fully realize that fundamental goodness, however for Xunzi human nature was bad, and the purpose of Confucian teaching was to train them to overcome that bad nature and become good.  So that Mencius was all about Confucianism as Self Realization and Xunzi was all about Confucianism as Animal Training.  It is helpful to an understanding of Xunzi, when you realize that his most influential student, Hanfei, one of the most famous advocates of Chinese "Legalist" thought, and as such, a resolute enemy of Confucianism.

 

In the History of Confucianism in China it is important to realize that Xunzi, with Hanfei in the background dominated Confucian thought by sometime around 200 BCE, and was pretty much the basis of the State Confucianism of China from the Han Dynasty until the development of what is usually called Neo-Confucianism in the Tang Dynasty.  One important aspect of which was the replacement of Xunzi as the great Confucian interpreter with Mencius.  Which is why we have three Chinese Philosophers whose names have been Latinized with the "us" suffix, Confucius, Laocius (AKA, Laozi), and Mencius, because these were the philosophers that the Jesuit Missionaries read after their arrival in China around 1600, Xunzi had dropped into almost complete, and in my opinion well deserved, obscurity.

 

More on this as I have time.

 

ZYD

[Miroku]

Just a fun synchronicity of sorts... until yesterday I have never heard of Mencius and today I found this on my Fb feed. Heart for me all the way.

[senseless virtue]

11 hours ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Now in one sense I am being as unfair to Xunzi, as I have been to the Analects, but the reason for characterizing him as a villain comes from this oversimplification about his and Mencius view on Human Nature.  For Mencius Human Nature was fundamentally good, and the purpose of Confucian teaching was to help people fully realize that fundamental goodness, however for Xunzi human nature was bad, and the purpose of Confucian teaching was to train them to overcome that bad nature and become good.

 

Wang Fengyi comments on his books that the viewpoints differ because of their emphasis either on original mind (Mencius) or acquired mind (Xunzi). The original mind preserves the spontaneous ethical purity, while the acquired mind easily accumulates selfish traits. Surely, the former points to ethical ideals and what people can hope to aspire for in their self-cultivation, and the latter teaches discerning eye for statesmen.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:33 AM, virtue said:

On 9/4/2021 at 2:43 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Now in one sense I am being as unfair to Xunzi, as I have been to the Analects, but the reason for characterizing him as a villain comes from this oversimplification about his and Mencius view on Human Nature.  For Mencius Human Nature was fundamentally good, and the purpose of Confucian teaching was to help people fully realize that fundamental goodness, however for Xunzi human nature was bad, and the purpose of Confucian teaching was to train them to overcome that bad nature and become good.

 

Wang Fengyi comments on his books that the viewpoints differ because of their emphasis either on original mind (Mencius) or acquired mind (Xunzi). The original mind preserves the spontaneous ethical purity, while the acquired mind easily accumulates selfish traits. Surely, the former points to ethical ideals and what people can hope to aspire for in their self-cultivation, and the latter teaches discerning eye for statesmen.

 

I don't want to get to distracted by this, but rather to continue to  develop an introduction for beginner's.  I don't want to get into any discussion of Wang Fengyi and his opinions, though the fundamental observation is good, but if Xunzi concentrated on acquired mind, it was because as a thoroughgoing materialist, that is all he believed existed, and the notion of original mind would have just been a fantasy to him.  These matters can be discussed later, and I welcome them at that time, as it is writing this is taking up a lot of time and I want to get back to dealing with beginner's topics.

 

 

Quote

 

Human Nature

 

As Mencius is known for the slogan “human nature is good,” Xunzi is known for its opposite, “human nature is bad.” Mencius viewed self-cultivation as developing natural tendencies within us. Xunzi believes that our natural tendencies lead to conflict and disorder, and what we need to do is radically reform them, not develop them. Both shared an optimism about human perfectability, but they viewed the process quite differently. Xunzi envisioned that humanity was once in a state of nature reminiscent of Hobbes. Without study of the Way, people’s desires will run rampant, and they will inevitably find themselves in conflict in trying to satisfy their desires. Left to themselves, people will fall into disorder, poverty and conflict, living a life that would be, as Hobbes put it, “poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” It was this insistence that human nature is bad that was most often condemned by later thinkers, who rejected Xunzi’s view in favor of the idea, traced to Mencius, that people are naturally good. (Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Xunzi, Human Nature, this is the beginning of the article on Human Nature, the rest is worth a look, indeed the whole entry on Xunzi is worthwhile,  ZYD)

 

 

ZYD

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I'm sorry to be so long in posting, but last week was unexpectedly busy and while I have some lovely notes about why the Tang dynasty was so important to Confucian Revival of the Song dynasty and they are almost ready to be posted, they need a little more work to be up to my standards and I hope to by able to post them in two days.  I also have to be honest and say that I had to talk myself out of covering a lot of fascinating, to me at least, information about the early Han dynasty consolidation of Imperial Power under a Confucian/Legalist system, and the banishment of Daoism as a political alternative.  Maybe I can do that somewhere down the road.

 

ZYD