Books about nei'gong diets

[Dev]

Can anyone recommend me a book(s) they found useful/informative about combinations of food (cool/warm etc) for neigong practices? Or just about traditional meals eaten by neigong practitioners, specific food items etc. Anything on the subject is appreciated  

[refugeindharma]

I don't know much about this field but was recommended Healing with Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford. Having read some way into it thus far I think quite highly of it.

 

Good introduction to Traditional Chinese Medicine and also has recipes throughout. It's a tome so will likely serve as a reference book for a while. Also following to see what others might recommend.

[freeform]

1 hour ago, refugeindharma said:

Healing with Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford.

I like the book.
 

It is, however, mixing a few different approaches - not just Chinese medicine.

 

Unfortunately I don’t have a decent book to recommend. I remember there was a thread a while back with a few recommendations.

 

The Chinese medicine aspect of food shouldn’t be too dogmatically followed though. It’s helpful in the beginning - as a kind of aid in developing your own intuitive sense of the qualities of different foods.

 

The reality is that it’s a complex model - yet it still pales in complexity to the real energetics of foods.

 

Qualities of a tomato for instance changes depending how much it’s been watered… how the weather has been… what time it was picked… the quality of the soil… the quality of mind as you’re consuming it… not to mention the thousands of different varieties of tomato. And that’s just a tomato.

 

Use food energetics as a kind of guide over a couple of years as your own energetics develop - and over time you’ll develop an intuitive feel for the right things.

 

Sometimes when it’s the heat of summer and you’re hot inside, a cold watermelon is just the ticket - despite it being detrimental to your Dantien at another time.

 

Sometimes the detrimental element of food is not as detrimental as missing out on a beer with a close friend.

[senseless virtue]

For recovery and very beginner level Neigong it's often very good to eat foods that are not damp or phlegm forming, but maybe even removing these two conditions.

 

The big issue with many modern diets is that they create internal dampness and phlegm which are poorly understood in materialistic science but accounted in every traditional holistic medicine. These conditions are about the weakening of digestive fire, so that the spleen and stomach can't digest well and are unable to distribute the body fluids properly. @freeform's warning about the cold and watery foods is exactly about this.

 

I have prepared a list of dampness and phlegm removing foods for my use. I can recommend these with the caveat that it would be much better if you had a traditional medicine or nutritionist expert helping you find the right balance for your current constitution. Even I have been recommended to consume some occasional watermelon or cold food. My lists of foods to limit and foods to add are much more suitable for anyone's consideration, but still it's good to exercise discernment. 

 

A special note about my diet is that I try to avoid all the proper cereals like wheat, rye, oat, barley, rice, maize, and millet. This is related to Daoist teachings that these grains are not so good for health, and it in fact is quite obvious after comparative tasting that they have some subtle nerve stimulating effects.

 

Quote

GRAINS ARE ADDICTIVE:

 

Groups led by Zioudrou (1979) and Brantl (1979) found opioid activity in wheat, maize and barley (exorphins), and bovine and human milk (casomorphin), as well as stimulatory activity in these proteins, and in oats, rye and soy. Cereal exorphin is much stronger than bovine casomorphin, which in turn is stronger than human casomorphin. Mycroft et al. (1982, 1987) found an analogue of MIF-1, a naturally occurring dopaminergic peptide, in wheat and milk. It occurs in no other exogenous protein… Since then, researchers have measured the potency of exorphins, showing them to be comparable to morphine and enkephalin (Heubner et al. 1984), determined their amino acid sequences (Fukudome &Yoshikawa 1992), and shown that they are absorbed from the intestine (Svedburg et al.1985) and can produce effects such as analgesia and reduction of anxiety which are usually associated with poppy-derived opioids.(Greksch et al.1981, Panksepp et al.1984)… One of the most striking phenomena in these studies is that patients often exhibit cravings, addiction and withdrawal symptoms with regard to these foods (Egger 1988:170, citing Randolph 1978; see also Radcliffe 1987:808-10, 814, Kroker 1987:856, 864, Sprague & Milam 1987:949, 953, Wraith 1987:489, 491). Brostoff and Gamlin (1989:103) estimated that 50 per cent of intolerance patients crave the foods that cause them problems, and experience withdrawal symptoms when excluding those foods from their diet. Withdrawal symptoms are similar to those associated with drug addictions (Wadley, Greg; Martin, Angus “The Origins of Agriculture: A Biological Perspective and a new Hypothesis” Australian Biologist 6: June 1993 pp. 96-105)

 

“The adoption of cereal agriculture and the subsequent rise of civilisation have not been satisfactorily explained, because the behavioural changes underlying them have no obvious adaptive basis… The answer, we suggest, is this: cereals and dairy foods are not natural human foods, but rather are preferred because they contain exorphins. This chemical reward was the incentive for the adoption of cereal agriculture in the Neolithic. (Wadley, Greg; Martin, Angus “The Origins of Agriculture: A Biological Perspective and a new Hypothesis” Australian Biologist 6: June 1993 pp. 96-105)

 

https://sensualanimist.com/2012/10/16/taoist-diet-bigu-avoiding-grains/

 

Foods to Avoid or Limit

 

dairy
wheat
cold drinks
fruit juice
processed foods
refined flour, pastry, pasta, breads
cold and raw foods, unripe fruits, salad
refined sugar and sugar substitutes, sweets
coffee, alcohol
deep fried foods
peanuts and peanut butter
bananas, avocado
mushrooms
peppers
fermented foods
vinegar and acidic foods
seafood
 

 

Foods to Add

 

warm boiled water
organic lightly cooked vegetables, pumpkin, caper
brown rice, barley, amaranth, rye, oats
legumes, kidney beans, adzuki beans, lentils
small amount of lean organic lamb/mutton, poultry and fish
small amount of whole fruits, lemon
sesame seeds, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds

 

 

Foods which resolve Dampness

 

Adzuki bean, Caraway, Garlic, Mackerel, Pumpkin, Alfalfa, Cardamon, Green Tea, Marjoram, Quail
Anchovy, Celery, Horseradish, Mushroom (button), Radish
Asparagus, Clove, Jasmine Tea, Mustard leaf, Rye
Barley, Coriander, Kidney bean, Onion, Scallion
Basil, Corn, Kohlrabi, Oregano, Turnip
Buckwheat, Daikon, Lemon, Parsley, Umeboshi plums
Cinnamon, Ginger, Rosemary, Dill, Sage, Nutmeg, Fennel, Anise, Raw honey

 

Foods which resolve Phlegm

 

Almond, Grapefruit, Mustard seed, Peppermint
Apple peel, Lemon peel, Olive, Plantain, Thyme
Black pepper, Liquorice, Onion, Radish, Walnut
Celery, Marjoram, Orange peel, Seaweed, Watercress
Clam, Mushroom (button), Pear, Shiitake
Garlic, Mustard leaf, Shrimp
Daikon, Marjoram, Mustard seed, Persimmon, Tangerine peel
 

 

My typical breakfast/lunch

 

Porridge made out of

• Buckwheat, amaranth, quinoa
• Salt and some herbs (typically at least basil)

 

My typical dinner

 

A seasonally constituted selection of 

• Steamed vegetables and tubers: potato, pumpkin and squash varieties, turnip, etc.
• A bit of clarified butter and olive oil

[Gerard]

On 06/09/2021 at 12:27 AM, virtue said:

 

My typical dinner

 

 

This is when problems start and will damage/mess your energetic system ENTIRELY

 

My advice:

 

First meal first thing in the morning. 6-8am. Eat really well, like a king.

 

Last meal before 12 noon (optional).

 

Proven one is doing inner work for many hours a day & night. 

 

What to eat:

 

1. Primarily soups & stews in the cooler months of the year. Ramen, congees, soups using bone broths, slow cooked stews during the winter months, etc. 

2. Cooling foods during the warmer months. Congees should be still consumed during this time in order to protect the Spleen. 

 

[senseless virtue]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:03 PM, Gerard said:

This is when problems start and will damage/mess your energetic system ENTIRELY

 

Now on The Dao Bums weekly menu:

 

Hors d'oeuvre: Nutritional melodrama

Main course: Unsolicited personal advice by resident remote diagnostic expert

 

Thank you very much, my heart is now entirely content with laughter.

[freeform]

While it’s good to make dinner a light meal it certainly won’t ‘mess up your energetic system entirely’.  What certainly will is not eating enough… when building Qi, food is important… only eating breakfast is a recipe for speedy yin deficiency. 
 

Limiting food is helpful for during meditative training - but not any type of Neigong.

[Gerard]

21 hours ago, virtue said:

Unsolicited personal advice.

 

My comment was directed to the OP who his asking for advice and because yours leads to *disharmony I logically stepped in and provided advice based on my personal experience.

 

Try to have dinner in the Buddhist monasteries in Thailand, for example. GOOD LUCK. 

 

https://www.watpahnanachat.org/about#practice-schedule (To refrain from eating after midday).

 

*To the OP, what exactly happens is that after midday the Yin starts to rise, the Earth Element which is in charge of digestion is completely inactive so any food intake basically sits in the Stomach and the Liver and during the Yin period that food triggers Fire, your body becomes too Yang. During night time the organ networks that are active (Pericardium, Triple Warmer, Gall Bladder from 11pm) should not be agitated with food intake; it only leads to trouble. One generates damp-heat and food stagnation by doing so. Food stagnation causes masses of lump that can be localised in various parts of the body not only in the abdominal region.

 

Further info:

 

https://www.mayway.com/articles/abdominal-distension-fu-zhang-pi-man

Edited September 12, 2021 by Gerard

[senseless virtue]

5 hours ago, Gerard said:

My comment was directed to the OP who his asking for advice and because yours leads to *disharmony I logically stepped in and provided advice based on my personal experience.

 

I don't understand your vaguely rationalized interventions, but maybe you have a really big urge of getting involved with others.

 

My dietary peculiarities reflect my individual constitutional needs and I only gave a list of foodstuff as a good reference point to start with. My lunch and dinner outlines were just to show the simplicity of its application in the end. Giving more detailed advice would be unethical for reasons that should be obvious by now.

 

And sure, eating one meal before noon could be the ideal for some purposes and there really are ideal eating hours for the most economical use of digestive energy, but I feel you are exaggerating a lot to the point of coming off as a dietary fundamentalist.

Edited September 12, 2021 by virtue
complete revamp

[anshino23]

9 hours ago, Gerard said:

One generates damp-heat and food stagnation by doing so. Food stagnation causes masses of lump that can be localised in various parts of the body not only in the abdominal region.

 

If that was the case for everyone then everyone would experience that. Plenty of people that eat a big dinner and not suffering as you describe. It depends on activity levels. Someone who is very physically active will also require more nutrients and more food. 

 

What you are describing also sounds more appropriate for someone living in a retreat meditative setting and not someone who is a very active person in their respective communities, working, has family life, etc. Mental models that are very restrictive can lead to massive nocebo effects and thus ultimately a less free and joyous life IMHO. 

[Gerard]

18 hours ago, anshino23 said:

What you are describing also sounds more appropriate for someone living in a retreat meditative setting and not someone who is a very active person in their respective communities,

 

Yes. My bad I didn't mention that. Sometimes I forget we are all at different levels. Glad you pointed it out.

 

But my experience is that the more you practice and further progress on this path the less food you need as well as not tolerating food intake after midday let alone after sunset. 

 

Anyway each to their own. 

 

Eating/adapting one's diet according to "seasonal changes" and "geographical location" is what the OP should really bear in mind. 

[Piyadasi]

@freeform

Perhaps a somewhat random question, but seeing as how Blood nourishing is really important to Neigong, the question came to my mind: Is actual blood a 'super-food' for blood? And if so how to consume it 🙏

[freeform]

42 minutes ago, Piyadasi said:

@freeform

Perhaps a somewhat random question, but seeing as how Blood nourishing is really important to Neigong, the question came to my mind: Is actual blood a 'super-food' for blood? And if so how to consume it 🙏

Haha - well it can be helpful in extreme depletion scenarios… if you’ve lost a lot of blood - or been very unwell. But it’s not really necessary normally.

 

Many cultures will have some sort of blood-based sausage. It’s called ‘black pudding’ in the UK… but I’ve had something similar in France made from wild boar blood… I know they have something like it in Ukrainian cuisine - I’m sure there are others.

 

To be honest a little meat a couple of times a week is enough for most people. Too much can cause stagnation.
 

Making sure to reduce stress and worry and make sure digestion is effective - as well as plenty of physical exercise to make sure there is no blood stagnation is best course of action.

[skyblue]

Healing With Wholefoods.

 

This was recommended on Damo's website in his article on the Yang Shen Fa. I haven't read it yet myself, but I will give it a try.

[freeform]

8 hours ago, skyblue said:

Healing With Wholefoods.

 

This was recommended on Damo's website in his article on the Yang Shen Fa. I haven't read it yet myself, but I will give it a try.

Its a good book, I like it - it’s just not purely Chinese medicine - in places he contradicts some of the principles. It’s still very useful though.