Wuji Posture

[Dev]

31 minutes ago, freeform said:

The shaking is normal, yes - it’s expected - especially as you’ve only done 5 sessions. (Remember that it takes effectively thousands of hours of wuji standing to get it ‘right’ - and even then there are always refinements). As you actively release more and the deeper muscles get used to the standing, things will change.

Damo lists 8 experiences/sensations, one of which is 'diao', which is defined as shaking as a result of the movement of the more yang forms of chi. Is this shaking equivalent to that?

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

Damo lists 8 experiences/sensations, one of which is 'diao', which is defined as shaking as a result of the movement of the more yang forms of chi. Is this shaking equivalent to that?

Thats the ‘8 touches of Qi’.

 

It could be that, or it could be muscles fatiguing and thus shaking.

 

The muscles you’re using for standing are ones you’re not used to using much because you’re letting go of the big muscle groups on the ‘outside’ of the body. As a result the deeper muscles designed for keeping your body posture standing are getting more stressed through standing - and at first they tire very easily and start to shake. 
 

When Qi moves there’s other type of shaking that happens.

 

But it’s not particularly important at this stage. You still have to work at getting the posture right, releasing, sinking your mind and so on. You’ll have many weird experiences, it’s best not to treat it all as too important.

[Master Logray]

The most likely reason for initial shaking is going too low and doing too long.

[Frederic]

Hi Dev,

 

I'm with you on practicing the Wuji Posture according to Damo. I've mainly felt tension in shoulders and neck during standing, but it is becoming a little less as I am working on loosening those area's. Since I've started regular standing I feel a soreness in the Kua during the day after the standing. Sometimes I spontaneously shake like a dog shaking of water. Some warmth in the LDT. But this is all just the beginning so nothing mayor. I do enjoy the practice very much. I even enjoy the daily stretching regime I've picked up since I became more serious in pursuing this path. Body feels so much better already.

 

How are you doing?

[Blue]

On 9/10/2021 at 10:07 AM, Earl Grey said:

 

Not to mention those who try to take a Unitarian Church kind of approach where someone can say "All is Dao and nobody has authority on Dao" which actually can be detrimental to understanding Dao due to the fact that it uses the same terminology, but its framework and philosophy is not Daoism but very distinctly capitalistic New Age rather than just New Age...

If I may, the “New Age” happened around 11-12 centuries when all the worthwhile texts suddenly vanished to reappear in a “poetic form” written down by some “followers”, frequently speaking in allegorical ways no one without first hand experience in energy work can even begin to understand, not to mention adding some higher level entities that weren’t mentioned before. It’s more than questionable to why, bc ancients were clear and precise in their writings..everything is energy, living or non living energy was the only distinction that they’ve made. Energy is ever present, always was and always will be, and something about time it might be originating from or related to, but it doesn’t come from anywhere else, and doesn’t go anywhere, it exists. There’s nothing else mentioned, no abstract authorities of any kind prior to those poetic rewritings, it’s total bs as far as I’m concerned. Things like Karma in some teachings in particular, it’s the energy blockades, especially at the crown chakra usually due to fear from what I’ve figured so far, makes you laugh for days just thinking about it, really, what a fantastic way to manipulate unsuspecting ppl.

I’ve never seen anything else mentioned in any early writings except for Wu (Mo-?) in a form of Indra if you look at first 10 Vedas or the very first Varmam texts even in the “poetic form”. It is some entities reminiscent to a complex form of intent or the “tree of life” energy flow from the hermetic teachings, that includes an emotion level, a completely forgotten part of it this days. You only need to experience it once, like any energy related work to make it yours. None of those long training sessions.
 

The primary focus was always on a person, “I am in the Universe”, and all the energy work was structured as such, the inner to outer work flow, especially on the level what is called the “crown chakra”, not only the three Dan Tien levels. Another huge omission this days.
 

It’s not reaching to the Heaven and Earth, it’s extending yourself from the inside..from the perspective of 5 primary winds or “energy joints” inside the body out of 49. The five of them are labeled as elements this days, if you include the metal (Mercury), the heavy energy flow along the spine.

 

Would it be making the very concept of Dao as something like Dao is I, and I is Dao, as a two way process of it, no?

 

It’s the only way it feels right to me, my inner intelligence is demanding it, if you wish, and I’m yet to prove it wrong, it never missed a thing. It sounds very self centered, but try it that way to see what I mean, it’s quite a liberating experience, in my opinion, makes it easier to follow the energy as well, another thing seem to be carefully removed from the modern days teachings. We supposed to do those silly forms or postures I could never remember correctly, but when I’m moving any way I want without thinking or not moving at all, the proof is in the pudding, it simply works best that way, shoot me! Was kicked out of my Taijijuan class and labeled as “dangerous” for doing it by the head teacher who couldn’t do a thing to me when others were flying, by simply collecting his energy somewhere high up and sorta sitting on it, only try to do anything really dangerous..

 

To finish my rant, the ancients felt the first humans were born from energies of the constellations with the major black holes in them as it turned out, Orion, Big Dipper, and so on, with a notable exception of a super pulsar, our galactic center, the Universal Sun or whatever it was called in various writings. The training would always begin with controlling the natural forces. Fighting an opponent was reserved for a later training, in fact, the most ancient wars described were fought on the level of natural forces.

 

Anyway, what is the “heart pump” of the energy, what gives it the direction? If it is Dao, then what is “I am” in this process?

Edited November 30, 2021 by Blue

[Earl Grey]

4 hours ago, Blue said:

If I may, the “New Age” happened around 11-12 centuries when all the worthwhile texts suddenly vanished to reappear in a “poetic form” written down by some “followers”, frequently speaking in allegorical ways no one without first hand experience in energy work can even begin to understand, not to mention adding some higher level entities that weren’t mentioned before. It’s more than questionable to why, bc ancients were clear and precise in their writings..everything is energy, living or non living energy was the only distinction that they’ve made. Energy is ever present, always was and always will be, and something about time it might be originating from or related to, but it doesn’t come from anywhere else, and doesn’t go anywhere, it exists. There’s nothing else mentioned, no abstract authorities of any kind prior to those poetic rewritings, it’s total bs as far as I’m concerned. Things like Karma in some teachings in particular, it’s the energy blockades, especially at the crown chakra usually due to fear from what I’ve figured so far, makes you laugh for days just thinking about it, really, what a fantastic way to manipulate unsuspecting ppl.

I’ve never seen anything else mentioned in any early writings except for Wu (Mo-?) in a form of Indra if you look at first 10 Vedas or the very first Varmam texts even in the “poetic form”. It is some entities reminiscent to a complex form of intent or the “tree of life” energy flow from the hermetic teachings, that includes an emotion level, a completely forgotten part of it this days. You only need to experience it once, like any energy related work to make it yours. None of those long training sessions.
 

The primary focus was always on a person, “I am in the Universe”, and all the energy work was structured as such, the inner to outer work flow, especially on the level what is called the “crown chakra”, not only the three Dan Tien levels. Another huge omission this days.
 

It’s not reaching to the Heaven and Earth, it’s extending yourself from the inside..from the perspective of 5 primary winds or “energy joints” inside the body out of 49. The five of them are labeled as elements this days, if you include the metal (Mercury), the heavy energy flow along the spine.

 

Would it be making the very concept of Dao as something like Dao is I, and I is Dao, as a two way process of it, no?

 

It’s the only way it feels right to me, my inner intelligence is demanding it, if you wish, and I’m yet to prove it wrong, it never missed a thing. It sounds very self centered, but try it that way to see what I mean, it’s quite a liberating experience, in my opinion, makes it easier to follow the energy as well, another thing seem to be carefully removed from the modern days teachings. We supposed to do those silly forms or postures I could never remember correctly, but when I’m moving any way I want without thinking or not moving at all, the proof is in the pudding, it simply works best that way, shoot me! Was kicked out of my Taijijuan class and labeled as “dangerous” for doing it by the head teacher who couldn’t do a thing to me when others were flying, by simply collecting his energy somewhere high up and sorta sitting on it, only try to do anything really dangerous..

 

To finish my rant, the ancients felt the first humans were born from energies of the constellations with the major black holes in them as it turned out, Orion, Big Dipper, and so on, with a notable exception of a super pulsar, our galactic center, the Universal Sun or whatever it was called in various writings. The training would always begin with controlling the natural forces. Fighting an opponent was reserved for a later training, in fact, the most ancient wars described were fought on the level of natural forces.

 

Anyway, what is the “heart pump” of the energy, what gives it the direction? If it is Dao, then what is “I am” in this process?

k

[Blue]

15 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

k

Hey, I’m not saying I know how it works, it’s just my take on those things. I’m not even a willing participant, blame it on Terry Dunn’s Flying Phoenix six sitting meditations I’ve picked up at a book store quite a while ago. It quickly did something really good to get me kicked out of a terrific TWD school for all the wrong reasons, like I’ve started to give a hard time to the masters beating them up in class, and it got more disagreeable from there, can’t say I’m not enjoying it 🤣 

 

Couple of those things on the list def opened up https://en.encyclopediaofjainism.com/index.php/Supernatural_Powers_or_Prodigies_(Rddhis)

 

But the true revelation came from talking to a real shaman who quickly fixed things by showing how to um.. control the weather.. my guess it’s what neigong is about as well.

 

Wuji became the fav thing ever since via few Taijijuan classes of the same lineage as Shi Ming’s, don’t ask me what it is,  and some curios subculture of Kashmir Combat Yoga traditions with everything reconstructed from the Vedic scripts. No energy work there until it kicks in on it’s own. No forms, not postures, just the general Vatsu like traditions Feng shui happens to derive from, the most dangerous form of martial arts, believe it or not, so much for gardening and pretty stones! 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Blue

[Blue]

Here is the type of Taijijuan lineage, was sizing them up at one point with a better master than I had. This guy seem to have the confidence I’m looking for, won’t start freaking out at unknown and how I happened to know the forms. I don’t, I’m just going with the flow, same way they do it at the combat yoga class using rather basic principles inherently ingrained in us.
 

http://www.laoliulu-taiji.com/en/master/

http://www.laoliulu-taiji.com/en/13-taiji-style/

[Blue]

As far as the “weather control” goes, it’s a joke, of cause, it’s easy as a pie. What you do, you open up your heart chakra and enjoy the ride, it happens on its own. I’m not going to spoil it for you, but you get all the answers you dear to ask for, just beware of it. 
 

Find a quiet place on the nature, focus on the buzz of beetles to get to the expanded consciousness level. Meanwhile, think of something you really enjoy doing, like eating a chicken soup, get that Buddha like smile on your face. Move the feeling of it to your heart, expand it to every cell in your body, now move it to everything around yourself to about the level of extended arms, a meter and a half away, making a nice sphere of love and joy around yourself. You can extend it all the way to horizon, if you want, as long as you feel every bit of it, like in any energy work. It’s not necessary, you can just keep that nice natural sphere around yourself, than send that feeling of love to the sun, you can send it as if it’s your father, if you’re more comfortable that way, and to the center of the earth as your mother, see what you get back;)

 

Don’t overdo it, easy does it like with everything else, or you’ll be checking out all the constellations and the center of the Universe before long in the same fashion, not just water, the four winds of nature, and all the Taras of the ancients before turning it inwards. It’s where things get complicated, all the red dragons and such.

 

Always approach it with the high level of positive emotions!! Ppl get hurt badly not knowing it in any energy work. There’re all other emotions, we’re not stones, we evolved with emotions, not the brain. But first things first, develop the level of intelligence to learn it the right way, and not in aggressive martial arts settings. Learn the healing arts approach first, the rest is easy.

 

When you can manifest anything you want at will, congrats, you’ve mastered the first energy class, time to move on to energy to matter transformations and the other levels described. It’s why it’s pointless for anyone to call themselves a master, there’re always new levels to unlock in that game until you realize, it’s not the point of the exercise, and it all boils down to Now, not future or the past, or some abstract entities, as good old folks in the first 10 Vedas already described for us.
 

No matter what we do, and what we try to master, life will always teach us the same lesson until we learn it, than we get a new one. Some of us are just stubborn and want to try other approaches first, I’m not an exception, one thing is to know, another thing to get to know it. 🥳 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Blue

[Blue]

Just got a reminder about the cold water, never get into cold water after opening your heart chakra and doing any energy work that way, ever, or you can get very sick. Cool off for a while first. The heart center gets closed after such meditations gently like the petals of a flower. You might wanna set something protective energy around yourself while in meditation, many ways to do it, like only letting the positive energy in, and not negative, setting the violet reiki like flames, but the golden flower approach is best. Set it all the way up and down, and across if you get to the combat level, the kiri line is also important.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Blue

[Blue]

@Earl GreyFine, won’t bother you guys in any way, I’m not that accustomed to this forum, sorry if any controversy arise, so forget it all pls.

[MBZ]

Your good brother, don’t let some of the know it all goofballs around here scare you off. 🙏🏻

[Earl Grey]

20 minutes ago, MBZ said:

Your good brother, don’t let some of the know it all goofballs around here scare you off. 🙏🏻

It’s actually a reference to trolling on another thread where he was warned. No passive aggression if you have an issue with me, please.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Earl Grey

[MBZ]

Your absolutely right, my bad. You come across as kind of a know it all sometimes bro. Better?

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, MBZ said:

Your absolutely right, my bad. You come across as kind of a know it all sometimes bro. Better?

Better, thanks. Doesn’t matter if I come across as a know-it-all though because I do teach this stuff professionally, but people are free to disregard my professional opinion since they aren’t my students after all.

[Nintendao]

On 9/6/2021 at 2:07 AM, Dev said:

On 9/5/2021 at 10:17 PM, dwai said:

If you are unable to wiggle your toes in this position, you’re putting too much weight on the front part of the feet. The weight needs to be distributed evenly between your heels and the balls of the feet. 

 According to damo, the weight must be on the frontal part in order to open up yong quan, which connects you to the earths yin. "If you distribute the weight evenly on your feet then your tarsal bones won't spread sufficiently and yong quan won't open up properly". 

 

The above quote was back on page one of this thread, but something that had stood out, as a lot of thought often goes into how to distribute the weight. I was watching Scholar Sage Podcast today and heard this in depth explanation about how leaning slightly forward is not necessarily preferable, but can be used early on to compensate for either leaning too far back, or, as OP said, to help opening up.

 

The foot-specific part starts at 14:17, but if you have time the first part about "opening the points," as literally spreading out the whole area. Is good stuff.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Nintendao

[dwai]

7 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

 

The above quote was back on page one of this thread, but something that had stood out, as a lot of thought often goes into how to distribute the weight. I was watching Scholar Sage Podcast today and heard this in depth explanation about how leaning slightly forward is not necessarily preferable, but can be used early on to compensate for either leaning too far back, or, as OP said, to help opening up.

 

The foot-specific part starts at 14:17, but if you have time the first part about "opening the points," as literally spreading out the whole area. Is good stuff.

 

 

There are different variations. I shared what I have learned  

William CC Chen had another version, which he called the "Three nails" method. Stand as if your feet were nailed into the ground with one nail being the ball K1 point, the other being the center of the big toe and the third being the center of your heel. 

http://www.williamccchen.com/3nails.htm

 

In the system I practice, in the initial stages, we stand for extended periods of time, and over time the body adjusts, releases, and the energy grounds very nicely without having to stand with putting pressure like Damo describes it. There is a reason why the weight needs to be evenly balanced -- especially if you're moving around in the martial context. I did watch Damo's video and he clarifies that he only recommends that way of standing because (western/modern) people are used to wearing shoes all the time and that changes the way their feet interact with the ground.

 

If the standing is done right, there will be a "Wet" feeling in the soles of the feet -- like you're standing in thick muddy water. 

 

Personally, I grew up walking barefoot or in flip-flops for most of my childhood -- so I never had the issues that he thinks are endemic in the masses.  

 

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

There are different variations. I shared what I have learned  

William CC Chen had another version, which he called the "Three nails" method. Stand as if your feet were nailed into the ground with one nail being the ball K1 point, the other being the center of the big toe and the third being the center of your heel. 

http://www.williamccchen.com/3nails.htm

 

In the system I practice, in the initial stages, we stand for extended periods of time, and over time the body adjusts, releases, and the energy grounds very nicely without having to stand with putting pressure like Damo describes it. There is a reason why the weight needs to be evenly balanced -- especially if you're moving around in the martial context. I did watch Damo's video and he clarifies that he only recommends that way of standing because (western/modern) people are used to wearing shoes all the time and that changes the way their feet interact with the ground.

 

If the standing is done right, there will be a "Wet" feeling in the soles of the feet -- like you're standing in thick muddy water. 

 

Personally, I grew up walking barefoot or in flip-flops for most of my childhood -- so I never had the issues that he thinks are endemic in the masses.  

 

 

There's a bit more to it than just shoes   .. the point he makes about the bones stacking and compressing is very important for opening up. Though one must remember this is for Neigong/Qigong practice rather than Tai Chi or martial arts... This is to help with incorporating YJJ principles from the start

 

In this case of opening Yongquan, this is a method that can work quicker than the others for those starting out...if you're building a house...you get the foundation right before you worry about building the rest  Pretty sure that's the basis for this

[Cleansox]

When we place the weight on the front part of the foot, the body enters an activation mode, we prepare for action. 

 

You might experience this as a "rising" sensation on the back side of the body. 

[freeform]

4 hours ago, Cleansox said:

When we place the weight on the front part of the foot, the body enters an activation mode, we prepare for action. 

 

You might experience this as a "rising" sensation on the back side of the body. 

Yup 

 

There’s stuff Damo’s not mentioning about placing weight on the front of the foot.
 

And it’s to do with what @Cleansox says. It’s basically a way to begin to strongly mobilise qi. It’s used in many different systems.