Human habitations pushed further back - again .

[Nungali]

Previous :  " it's most likely that people entered the Americas around 16,000 years ago. "

 

" The "Clovis first theory" refers to the 1950s hypothesis that the Clovis culture represents the earliest human presence in the Americas, beginning about 13,000 years ago; evidence of pre-Clovis cultures has accumulated since 2000, pushing back the possible date of the first peopling of the Americas.^[10][11][12] Research published in 2021 dated faunal bones, mostly of rabbits and associated with what may be stone tools of human origin, discovered in the Coxcatlan Cave, to between 33,448 to 28,279 years old. Such finds indicate that the human arrival in the Americas possibly occurred prior to the Last Glacial Maximum.^[13] More recently, in September 2021, scientists reported the discovery of human footprints in White Sands National Park in the state of New Mexico that are understood to be 23,000 years old, around the time of the Last Glacial Maximum, and the oldest record of humans in the Americas. "  -  Wiki .

 

" In a study of exposed outcrops of Lake Otero in New Mexico, the United States, archaeologists have discovered numerous human footprints dating to about 23,000 to 21,000 years ago "

 

http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/americas-oldest-known-human-footprints-10100.html

[old3bob]

 

[Nungali]

There was a bit of confusion in that talk .  It was suggested that occupation in Americas far exceeded that of Australia .   Nope .

 

The thing is, this type of evidence is elsewhere .   That type of  secondary evidence  talked about above ... that is ,  a  suggestion of human occupation / or signs attributed to human activity (in this case 'butchered' bones )  does predate primary evidence of human occupation in Australia ( ie. actual human remains )  but it does not predate secondary evidence also found in Australia , ie .  'fireplace and midden' at  Point Ritchie in Victoria  ( approx 120 , 000 years ago . )

 

This fits in with the earlier 'warming period' mentioned above , where it is suggested the ice sheet barrier allowed access to central north America .  But then there would have been a greater  expanse of water separating Australia from Asia than there is even today ( Eemian Interglacial had temps a few degrees warmer than today and sea levels about 8 metres higher  { maybe where we are now heading ? }  ) .

 

In a few places we have ,  not human remains, but signs suggesting human occupations around this time period .

[old3bob]

Lots of speculations and scant proof on many fronts,,, anyway I liked his major point about science not getting stuck on a particular time period thus being open to digging deeper.

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, old3bob said:

Lots of speculations and scant proof on many fronts,,, anyway I liked his major point about science not getting stuck on a particular time period thus being open to digging deeper.

 

 

I appreciate an archaeological pun  

[zerostao]

Whenever, Whoever wandered into North America, some 13,000 years ago, and I thinks those got wiped out in a Natural Super Catastrophe. Whenever that group arrived, be it 20,000 years , ago 18,000 years ago; I don't see that bit concerning.

A group arrived was wiped out and another thousand or so years before another group arrived. Going back to the previous group, did they encounter folks already here upon their arrivals?

Me thinks so. They were also finished off by same Natural Super Catastrophe.

 

Check this out !!

http://irjci.blogspot.com/2010/06/western-kentucky-man-finds-largest.html

 

There are all kinds of artifacts in Kentucky and elsewhere, dug up or found lying around Natural Rock shelters, some painted  waaaaaay back. or found in creeks, plowed fields, 99.9% of those original artifacts picked up by pioneers are still be held by descendants of the pioneers that found them, and have not been shared with Archeologists, professors, government, etc 

I like the work, art, sacred, pieces from the Woodland Archaic period. I like style of those predecessors of the Shawnee and Cherokee. 

Clovis folks, though had superior craftsmanship's, engineering, aesthetics, over all that followed them.

 

There are sites that had village life going on for thousands of years here. When you've seen that sort of evidence, there are those who've made sure to let it remain untouched, unseen. 

 

I'm a big fan of Ancient World; and I am an enthusiastic fan of what we we call Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, China, et all

But I'm especially intrigued by those waaaaay before them.

 

To the OP; I can go along with the 21,000 - 23,000 years ago idea, understanding the more evidence will eventually be revealed.

Hunter Gatherers here, ain't that far in the past. In fact, it's not even past.

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, zerostao said:

Whenever, Whoever wandered into North America, some 13,000 years ago, and I thinks those got wiped out in a Natural Super Catastrophe. Whenever that group arrived, be it 20,000 years , ago 18,000 years ago; I don't see that bit concerning.

A group arrived was wiped out and another thousand or so years before another group arrived. Going back to the previous group, did they encounter folks already here upon their arrivals?

Me thinks so. They were also finished off by same Natural Super Catastrophe.

 

Check this out !!

http://irjci.blogspot.com/2010/06/western-kentucky-man-finds-largest.html

 

There are all kinds of artifacts in Kentucky and elsewhere, dug up or found lying around Natural Rock shelters, some painted  waaaaaay back. or found in creeks, plowed fields, 99.9% of those original artifacts picked up by pioneers are still be held by descendants of the pioneers that found them, and have not been shared with Archeologists, professors, government, etc 

I like the work, art, sacred, pieces from the Woodland Archaic period. I like style of those predecessors of the Shawnee and Cherokee. 

Clovis folks, though had superior craftsmanship's, engineering, aesthetics, over all that followed them.

 

There are sites that had village life going on for thousands of years here. When you've seen that sort of evidence, there are those who've made sure to let it remain untouched, unseen. 

 

I'm a big fan of Ancient World; and I am an enthusiastic fan of what we we call Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, China, et all

But I'm especially intrigued by those waaaaay before them.

 

Try this then .....   ( the book contains much more info ... it starts before the ice age started )  ;

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, zerostao said:

 

To the OP; I can go along with the 21,000 - 23,000 years ago idea, understanding the more evidence will eventually be revealed.

Hunter Gatherers here, ain't that far in the past. In fact, it's not even past.

 

That is  a big one   !   Its either 'ceremonial'   or the type of 'arrow head' I have seen elsewhere , where the bow and the arrow are HUGE , the arrow, virtually the size of a spear .

 

The finder talks about being elated  at his find .   Imagine finding a shelter, with fresh (days old ) evidence of occupation  with a  half made stone axe - a MUCH earlier design than this -  and tools laying about   .....  which has been my experience  .

[old3bob]

we could go all the way back to when souls came here from other star systems...but that would not be provable by any regular means.  Nor would it be provable by any regular means that some souls are able to visit other star systems right now. (or at least travel around in the solar system... btw some native Americans have a saying, its called "going to the sun" which is not all the different from some sayings found in the Hindu Upanishads about the sun) 

Edited September 29, 2021 by old3bob