disrspecting the i ching ?

[waterdrop]

can you disrespect the i ching ?  

 

got to this by my want to test the i ching (to increase my faith in it - except asking him questions about my life to ask questions which their main goal is to test the i ching)   -   and wondered if its disrespectful  to do so   ? 

 

also wondered the question in relation to using the online i ching   and also about what if i ask the i ching many small questions  -  even a few in one day , maybe even a few in a row (which is easy to do using the online i ching)  if that can be disrespectful ?  

 

and i mean what is the effects of being disrepectful to it ?    will it be less effective?        isnt the i ching really my "true self"  or my intution  etc -  so im just disprespecting myself and not some other entity  -  so it should be ok to ask whatever i want as much as i want ? 

 

also there is always hex 4 with its text : 

 

Quote

 

YOUTHFUL FOLLY has success.
It is not I who seek the young fool;
The young fool seeks me.
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times, it is importunity.
If he importunes, I give him no information.
Perseverance furthers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by waterdrop

[Earl Grey]

3 hours ago, waterdrop said:

can you disrespect the i ching ?  

 

 

Yes.

[zerostao]

On 10/29/2021 at 11:25 PM, Earl Grey said:

 

Yes.

I agree

and why would anyone choose to do that?

[silent thunder]

Humans may disrespect anything but this human doubts the i ching is bothered or concerned in the least by the intentions and respect or not of human intent.

 

Straw Dogs n all...

 

Same goes for Gods being offended by what we say.  The squeakings of ants do not carry significance enough to merit offense.

[natural]

8 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Humans may disrespect anything but this human doubts the i ching is bothered or concerned in the least by the intentions and respect or not of human intent.

 

Straw Dogs n all...

 

 The squeakings of ants do not carry significance enough to merit offense.

 

Let a mess of them southern ants, aka red ants, find your soft targets long enough and they will celebrate ones painful ignorant suffering!

No straw dog's, life just carrying on its own way.

 

And yes, not significate to many onlookers, but very important to the individual under assault!

[Earl Grey]

5 hours ago, zerostao said:

I agree

and why would anyone choose to do that?

 

I know a man with a cocaine addiction who lost millions of dollars and recorded his thoughts when asking the Iching about it.

 

When he didn't get the answer he wanted, he even wrote down the following several follow-ups:

"What?"

"Don't understand."

"What about my money?"

"DAMN DAMN DAMN"

"Thank you. As usual, you have been useless to me."

 

I showed these to my teacher who said this was absolutely disrespectful and that he would receive if not already appropriate responses for this behavior.

 

People don't know they are disrespecting the Iching, whether it's this attitude in the example or using it for reasons beyond its scope, and another one I've see is someone using it to scam others who don't know how to read the Iching while also giving the wrong interpretation and manipulating the people they're reading on behalf of to do what they want.

[liminal_luke]

Silent Thunder makes a good point: the I Ching likely doesn't care whether we respect it or not.  I do think, however, that something inside us cares, and maybe the result we get has a lot to do with the attitude we bring.  

[Bindi]

If someone wants to interact with the I ching it seems like a good idea to respect it, but if its meaningless to someone I would say they can have any attitude towards it that they like. Same with other 'sacred' texts, should they all be respected, or can one have a critical opinion about any or all of them? The Koran comes to mind, Salman Rushdie was stabbed because he disrespected the author of that text. I think we have the right to disrespect any religious or spiritual text that we want to in the interests of critical thinking. 

[zerostao]

48 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Silent Thunder makes a good point: the I Ching likely doesn't care whether we respect it or not.  I do think, however, that something inside us cares, and maybe the result we get has a lot to do with the attitude we bring.  

I think the I Ching absolutely notices

( noticing is caring or at least we could think sharing is caring and the I Ching is generous sharing something you really don’t find elsewhere )

I haven’t sought counsel from Divine in a long time. Too long. I’ve relied on my Wu which I’ve been consciously (and unconsciously) developing the past dozen years. Really, been developing it all my life but the last twelve plus years using Daoist ways to work with.

 

Asking something again one has already asked is in bad form, bad faith, the way of the inferior. the superior or virtuous will respectfully take care in the interaction/communication with the Divine.

And the I Ching itself says it is for the superior’s not the inferior’s benefit.

 

to add// the I Ching is a guidebook for accumulating merit. I will suggest that the superior or virtuous is collecting merit far more than the disrespectful does.

Edited August 15, 2022 by zerostao

[Earl Grey]

40 minutes ago, zerostao said:

sking something again one has already asked is in bad form, bad faith, the way of the inferior. the superior or virtuous will respectfully take care in the interaction/communication with the Divine.

And the I Ching itself says it is for the superior’s not the inferior’s benefit.

 

to add// the I Ching is a guidebook for accumulating merit. I will suggest that the superior or virtuous is collecting merit far more than the disrespectful does.

 

The Iching doesn't tell you what to do with your life, it's like the wise one (or many wise ones, really) giving you the best counsel for the most beneficial conduct to remain in harmony with De.

 

People who demand clairvoyance, to find their shoes, help deciding if they should fight someone or not are not only going to be disappointed with the answers it gives, but its honesty.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

The I-ching and other oracles indeed don't respond very well to overly repeated questions. Not because they feel pissed of, but simply because they tend to reflect the mind of the querent. Therefore, a scattered mind will receive scattered answers. Also, it will be hard for the latter to reach the level of intuitive contemplation required to interpret the answer fully and correctly anyway.

 

Testing the I-ching this way won't give you satisfactory results. Its answers are hard to objectify even under the best of circumstances. Ultimately, they depend on what your (hopefully intuitive) mind sees in them.

 

A more recommendable way of 'testing the I-ching' (as well as your ability to read it! ;)) would be to first thoroughly contemplate the answer received and put it in relation to the event in question. And bear in mind that, every so often, what exactly it meant will get clearer as the situation develops.

 

So instead of asking the same question several times, it's better to read the answer several times!

[Cheshire Cat]

I believe that each oracle has its own personality and its area of expertise.

The I-Ching has a strong seasonal component and its response attempts to predict what's going to happen in the arc of 3 to 6 months. 

It's not disrespectful to ask the same question during that period of time to see if something has changed.

 

I suggest to try easier oracles like the Clear cut I ching.

 

p.s. online oracles don't work

[Lairg]

Many years ago I used the I Ching a lot.  Then I claimed my own authority and ceased to use it.

 

Recently I have used the I Ching a few times with significant benefit.

 

These days I can perceive the intelligences that reach us through the veil of the I Ching.  They are progressive and beneficient.   Many intelligences are not progressive.

[zerostao]

6 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

The Iching doesn't tell you what to do with your life, it's like the wise one (or many wise ones, really) giving you the best counsel for the most beneficial conduct to remain in harmony with De.

 

People who demand clairvoyance, to find their shoes, help deciding if they should fight someone or not are not only going to be disappointed with the answers it gives, but its honesty.

 

true, I didn’t suggest otherwise. 
my content was on respect and lack of. 
 

[Earl Grey]

22 minutes ago, zerostao said:

true, I didn’t suggest otherwise. 
my content was on respect and lack of. 
 

 

Oh that was clear; I wasn't challenging or correcting you. I was adding to what you said.

[Michael Sternbach]

7 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

It's not disrespectful to ask the same question during that period of time to see if something has changed.

 

I agree, you can ask the same or a similar question later to see if there is another aspect to consider yet. 

 

I was just stressing that the constant repetition of the same question (even several times a day!) which the OP suggested is not a good idea.

 

I recommend keeping a record of all your readings so you can review them later and see if/how they manifested. You will learn using the I-ching (and other oracles) much faster, taking that kind of systematic approach.

 

And I like to add a few lines of my own interpretation to every received hexagram.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Michael Sternbach

[parsival]

Just wondered if anyone here has done a comparison between the Iching and geomancy?

[Lairg]

36 minutes ago, parsival said:

Just wondered if anyone here has done a comparison between the Iching and geomancy?

 

My only interest in geomancy is experiencing and managing flows of Earth energy.

 

Still, when I look at the processes of future telling, there are two stellar intelligences behind the I Ching (overtly male and female) while geomancy seems to call upon Earth intelligences.  Without observing geomantic forecasting, the relevant intelligences appear to be inner Earth beings.

 

I will stick with the I Ching on the occasions I feel it necessary to seek confirmation