Is Waidan necessary for advanced Neidan?

[chaosbananaman]

Had a talk with someone really advanced where they mentioned that at high levels of Nei dan, Wai dan actually becomes an integral part of the practice. 

Working with mercury, consumption of metal and minerals. Obviously, this only happens when your body is prepared and you have built up your energetic system to the point that you could go through with it without any detriment to the body. It also happens under strict supervision of the teacher. From my understanding, these metals are charged through the emission of the teacher to cause certain effects in the body of the student who consumes it.  

 

But i was wondering if something like this really is necessary.  Seems a little dumb that i need to consume things to help me achieve new levels in my cultivation. There is also the consideration of just how safe this kind of thing is.

 

I know there are many high level Yoga and Buddhist systems that work with external alchemy as well. Especially with compounds like Mercury. But i always figured that the only thing you really need is you and your body. Any thoughts? 

 

 

[freeform]

28 minutes ago, chaosbananaman said:

i was wondering if something like this really is necessary.

Not necessary, no… but some teachers use these preparations to assist the internal process.

[chaosbananaman]

15 minutes ago, freeform said:

Not necessary, no… but some teachers use these preparations to assist the internal process.

 

Wondering if it would be considered rude to reject your teacher's instructions if they present you with external alchemical substance to take. Maybe it's something to consider beforehand when looking for a teacher 

[dwai]

Not necessary and strongly advise against it. A former teacher of mine died from messing around with external alchemy (albeit in the Hindu tantric tradition). A post-mortem allegedly showed high levels of arsenic and mercury in his blood. 

[freeform]

21 minutes ago, chaosbananaman said:

Wondering if it would be considered rude to reject your teacher's instructions if they present you with external alchemical substance to take. Maybe it's something to consider beforehand when looking for a teacher 

there are very few teachers who have authentic wai dan methods.

 

Some teachers use Qi building pills - but they don’t use risky ingredients. These are more common.

 

With a genuine teacher who uses wai dan, at the stage where the metals and other risky ingredients make an appearance, they will show you that they can change the physical fabric of substances (transmuting one substance into another in front of you - ‘water into wine’ type of stuff).

 

Dont consume weird stuff from a teacher you don’t trust  

[MIchael80]

13 hours ago, chaosbananaman said:

Had a talk with someone really advanced where they mentioned that at high levels of Nei dan, Wai dan actually becomes an integral part of the practice. 

Working with mercury, consumption of metal and minerals. Obviously, this only happens when your body is prepared and you have built up your energetic system to the point that you could go through with it without any detriment to the body. It also happens under strict supervision of the teacher. From my understanding, these metals are charged through the emission of the teacher to cause certain effects in the body of the student who consumes it.  

 

But i was wondering if something like this really is necessary.  Seems a little dumb that i need to consume things to help me achieve new levels in my cultivation. There is also the consideration of just how safe this kind of thing is.

 

I know there are many high level Yoga and Buddhist systems that work with external alchemy as well. Especially with compounds like Mercury. But i always figured that the only thing you really need is you and your body. Any thoughts? 

 

 

Classically these external elixirs were often used by yogis to prolong life and thereby having more time to practice, to ward of disease and to deepen transformation. 

 

If you use chi it is also external and you bring it into your body through certain practices. 

 

While one can do a lot of alchemical stuff the original external elixir (wai dan aka philosophers stone) is made from mercury (cinnabar). It can be detoxed and made into something divine.

 

The metals are not charged (but can be) they are brought through the alchemical process and so they become the golden elixir (aka philosophers stone).

 

From my experience it very much supports cultivation greatly....gives a strong boost but one should be very careful. 

There are safe ways to use it ... like wearing the white stone around your neck or putting it into water and drinking that water.

[freeform]

30 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

supports cultivation

That’s the most important thing really. 
 

Any external substances are only ever in support of an internal practice.
 

Substances do not replace your cultivation practice  

———

 

33 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

If you use chi it is also external and you bring it into your body through certain practices. 

 

as an aside - I used to have a teacher that used various places, objects and environments (in time and space) to absorb Qi.

 

However, I had a massive breakthrough in my cultivation when I met my main teacher who showed me that (95% of) Qi generation can only happen inside - and that bringing Qi inside from out is a mistake (it’s not problematic, just very inefficient). 
 

Happy to chat about that if it’s of interest

[zerostao]

I never thought of absorbing Qi as a mistake. I understood that in a way , it is “borrowing”

in a best case, exchanging. 
quite a bit of mileage can be gained, the right preparation and being in a favorable spot to meet the sunrise,,,

walking the circle around certain trees,,,

having earth energy rise into me/ propelling me through the trigrams,,,

 

I do agree that not having to “borrow” is ideal.

 

please continue chatting

 

edit— just realized thread is about taking Qi building pills.

Edited November 11, 2021 by zerostao