The Clear Light Dharmakaya Experience

[Mark Foote]

(A recent post on my own site, that I thought might provoke comment here.)

I wrote in a recent correspondence:
 

My practice is getting more interesting.  I think I mentioned that I took up meditation in the first place because I was unhappy with my mind—I didn’t seem to be able to avoid a tendency to carry on thinking, past when the thoughts were fresh.  Now I see that I can turn my attention to my location, to that singularity in the location of awareness that acts in the movement of breath without the exercise of will, and from there find relaxation and calm until the thoughts come fresh again.

 

The weird thing is, friends now mention to me that they experience some of the same dissatisfaction with their minds.

 

I feel at a total loss to help these friends, who don’t sit.  Just thinking doesn’t touch it, so even my best explanation is not likely to be helpful, but maybe I can be a better example of my own medicine.

 

A friend sent me the last part of this:

 

Normally consciousness relies on all the bodily elements as its basis. During the death process, however, the elements as bases progressively fail and consciousness relies on less and less of them. This is what experiences the Clear Light of death and passes into the in-between or “bardo” state and on into your next rebirth. Thus meditation on the mind with no object is similar to the tantric ones of taking the Dharmakaya as a pathway for death, in which you simulate in meditation the dissolution process of death and focus finally on the space-like mind itself in the Dharmakaya Clear Light experience.

 

Meditation on no object should not be confused with blank-mindedness in which you are completely dull as if in a stupor or a faint. It is extremely alert, mindful and clear, but as in the Clear Light death meditations, without any object or thoughts. (1)

 

In the dissolution process of the bodily elements as outlined previously, consciousness progressively relies on less elements [dissolution of the elements and three subsequent stages of creative energies are described].  After this comes the Clear Light Dharmakaya experience which can be had at death, falling asleep, fainting or in advanced tantric meditations. (2)

 

The Clear Light Dharmakaya experience, which can be had at falling asleep.  My friend sent this to me because he remembered I had written something about falling asleep.

 

I wrote in Waking Up and Falling Asleep about the way awareness moves in the body at the moment of falling asleep.  That may or may not be the same thing as experience of “the space-like mind itself”, though I suspect from the description that it is.

 

1) “The Mahamudra:  Eliminating the Darkness of Ignorance”, Wang Chug Dor-je, Alexander Berzin, Beru Khyentze Rinpoche; p. 51-52; commentary by Beru Khyentze Rinpoche on a 16^th century C.E. text by the head of the largest sub-school of the four major Tibetan schools of Buddhism.
2) Ibid, p. 142

Edited November 13, 2021 by Mark Foote

[awaken]

你這篇文章已經貼出來半年多了，但是並沒有引起爭論

 

因為這裡沒什麼人能練到這種清淨法身，所以無法發表個人經驗

 

如果你想親身體會這種經驗，可能只能來跟我練了

 

Your article has been posted for more than half a year, but it has not caused controversy

Because no one here can reach this kind of clear light Dharmakaya, so no one can't express his personal experience

If you want to experience this experience for yourself, you may have to come and cultivate with me

[doc benway]

On 11/13/2021 at 3:24 PM, Mark Foote said:

(A recent post on my own site, that I thought might provoke comment here.)

I wrote in a recent correspondence:
 

My practice is getting more interesting.  I think I mentioned that I took up meditation in the first place because I was unhappy with my mind—I didn’t seem to be able to avoid a tendency to carry on thinking, past when the thoughts were fresh.  Now I see that I can turn my attention to my location, to that singularity in the location of awareness that acts in the movement of breath without the exercise of will, and from there find relaxation and calm until the thoughts come fresh again.

 

The weird thing is, friends now mention to me that they experience some of the same dissatisfaction with their minds.

 

I feel at a total loss to help these friends, who don’t sit.  Just thinking doesn’t touch it, so even my best explanation is not likely to be helpful, but maybe I can be a better example of my own medicine.

 

A friend sent me the last part of this:

 

Normally consciousness relies on all the bodily elements as its basis. During the death process, however, the elements as bases progressively fail and consciousness relies on less and less of them. This is what experiences the Clear Light of death and passes into the in-between or “bardo” state and on into your next rebirth. Thus meditation on the mind with no object is similar to the tantric ones of taking the Dharmakaya as a pathway for death, in which you simulate in meditation the dissolution process of death and focus finally on the space-like mind itself in the Dharmakaya Clear Light experience.

 

Meditation on no object should not be confused with blank-mindedness in which you are completely dull as if in a stupor or a faint. It is extremely alert, mindful and clear, but as in the Clear Light death meditations, without any object or thoughts. (1)

 

In the dissolution process of the bodily elements as outlined previously, consciousness progressively relies on less elements [dissolution of the elements and three subsequent stages of creative energies are described].  After this comes the Clear Light Dharmakaya experience which can be had at death, falling asleep, fainting or in advanced tantric meditations. (2)

 

The Clear Light Dharmakaya experience, which can be had at falling asleep.  My friend sent this to me because he remembered I had written something about falling asleep.

 

I wrote in Waking Up and Falling Asleep about the way awareness moves in the body at the moment of falling asleep.  That may or may not be the same thing as experience of “the space-like mind itself”, though I suspect from the description that it is.

 

1) “The Mahamudra:  Eliminating the Darkness of Ignorance”, Wang Chug Dor-je, Alexander Berzin, Beru Khyentze Rinpoche; p. 51-52; commentary by Beru Khyentze Rinpoche on a 16^th century C.E. text by the head of the largest sub-school of the four major Tibetan schools of Buddhism.
2) Ibid, p. 142

 

The tantric practice of sleep yoga can be used to experience the Clear Light during sleep. It develops the ability to remain connected to awareness during the transition between wakefulness and sleep, coming to rest or abide in Clear Light during dreamless sleep. It is also possible to rest into Clear Light by dissolving the lucid dream state. It is said that if one has a few experiences of the Clear Light of sleep they are more likely to self- recognize in the bardo after death.

[awaken]

為什麼要用『據說』這個說法？

 

為什麼不自己練出來呢？

 

你自己練出來不是更清楚怎麼回事嗎？

 

Why use the term "It is said"?

Why not reach it yourself?

Don't you have a better idea of what's going on when you reach it yourself?

[doc benway]

12 minutes ago, awaken said:

為什麼要用『據說』這個說法？

 

為什麼不自己練出來呢？

 

你自己練出來不是更清楚怎麼回事嗎？

 

Why use the term "It is said"?

Why not reach it yourself?

Don't you have a better idea of what's going on when you reach it yourself?

 

I used the phrase “it is said” because I haven’t died yet. I will reach it myself for sure some day. Perhaps I will have a better idea then but I won’t be able to post about it here.

[ilumairen]

16 hours ago, awaken said:

你這篇文章已經貼出來半年多了，但是並沒有引起爭論

 

因為這裡沒什麼人能練到這種清淨法身，所以無法發表個人經驗

 

如果你想親身體會這種經驗，可能只能來跟我練了

 

Your article has been posted for more than half a year, but it has not caused controversy

Because no one here can reach this kind of clear light Dharmakaya, so no one can't express his personal experience

If you want to experience this experience for yourself, you may have to come and cultivate with me

 

30 minutes ago, awaken said:

為什麼要用『據說』這個說法？

 

為什麼不自己練出來呢？

 

你自己練出來不是更清楚怎麼回事嗎？

 

Why use the term "It is said"?

Why not reach it yourself?

Don't you have a better idea of what's going on when you reach it yourself?

 

Why do you write in such an arrogant and condescending fashion?
 

Will you tone this down a bit please?

[doc benway]

19 hours ago, awaken said:

Because no one here can reach this kind of clear light Dharmakaya, so no one can't express his personal experience

 

It is not wise to make assumptions about others’ experiences and realizations. 

[liminal_luke]

13 minutes ago, steve said:

 

 

A truly advanced practitioner knows it is not wise to make assumptions about others’ experiences and realizations. 

 

Or, as some here might put it, never underestimate Steve on the Internet.

[awaken]

6 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

Why do you write in such an arrogant and condescending fashion?
 

Will you tone this down a bit please?

 

你太情緒化了

 

you are too emotional

[awaken]

6 hours ago, steve said:

 

I used the phrase “it is said” because I haven’t died yet. I will reach it myself for sure some day. Perhaps I will have a better idea then but I won’t be able to post about it here.

 

你這個態度非常好

我也看得出來因為你的彬彬有禮，所以人緣很好

希望你能早日達到

 

Your attitude is very good

I can also see that because of your politeness, you are very popular

Hope you can reach it soon

 

不過你的回應，讓我想要講的話，講不出來了

不過我還是講一講好了，即使有人批評我沒禮貌，該講還是要講

 

But your response thwarted what I wanted to say. But I still have to talk about it. Even if someone criticizes me for being rude, I still have to talk about it.

 

我很清楚怎麼練到這個清淨法身，我也願意分享給有意願的人怎麼練到清淨法身

你是一個理性的人，如果你願意來練練看，相信你的理性實踐，會給這裡的其他人很大的信心

 

I know very well how to reach this pure Dharmakaya, and I would like to share with those who are willing how to reach the pure Dharmakaya

You are a rational person, if you are willing to come to cultivate and believe in your rational practice, it will give other people here great confidence

 

雖然我從你的回應當中，解讀到你很客氣的拒絕了

不過我還是把我的想法表達出來

如果有人因此覺得我傲慢無禮，那我也沒辦法了

因為我確實很清楚怎麼練到這裡

 

Although I read from your response that you politely refused

But I still express my thoughts

If anyone thinks I'm arrogant and rude because of this, then there's nothing I can do

Because I do know how to get there

[C T]

6 hours ago, awaken said:

為什麼要用『據說』這個說法？

 

為什麼不自己練出來呢？

 

你自己練出來不是更清楚怎麼回事嗎？

 

Why use the term "It is said"?

Why not reach it yourself?

Don't you have a better idea of what's going on when you reach it yourself?

 

There are a number of milestones in Buddhist practice, but doubtful clear light is one of them. 

Suggesting the notion that its a reachable 'goal' can bring about confusion and misunderstanding. 

[awaken]

1 hour ago, C T said:

 

There are a number of milestones in Buddhist practice, but doubtful clear light is one of them. 

Suggesting the notion that its a reachable 'goal' can bring about confusion and misunderstanding. 

 

或許大般若經就是擔心被你這樣誤解，才會每次提到每種現象，都把以前全部提過的重新講一遍

但是你不覺得這樣講話很累嗎？

Perhaps the Mahaprajna Sutra is worried about being misunderstood by you, so every time it mentions each phenomenon, it repeats everything that has been mentioned before.

But don't you find it tiring to talk like this?

 

所有的現象都是過程，這是看佛經的人該有的認知

即是是光也一樣

但是不能因為是光的現象，都刻意的忽略，只有在思想上下功夫是不夠的

 

All phenomena are processes, this is the understanding that people who read Buddhist scriptures should have

even light

However, just because it is a phenomenon of light, it cannot be ignored deliberately. It is not enough to work hard on the thoughts.

 

清晰的光絕對不是令人懷疑的存在

而是明確的存在

而且不難練到

請不要逃避這個現實

 

Clear light is definitely not a doubtful presence

but a clear existence

And it's not hard to appear

Please don't escape this reality

Edited June 13, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

不過關於某派別的虹光身傳說，我也很質疑，因為我跟你們一樣，練不出這種現象，所以我也很質疑

所以我能體會你們對我的質疑，因為你們覺得自己已經練到該練的，但是還是練不出清楚的光，所以你會質疑清楚的光的可能性

 

不過我以我的經驗來說，清楚的光絕對不是問題，絕對是很簡單的，很多人能練到的

 

我覺得這種傳說中的虹光身肯定有受到一定程度的扭曲，事實應該並非如此

 

However, about the legend of the rainbow body of a certain faction, I am also very skeptical, because like you, I cannot reach this phenomenon, so I am also very skeptical

So I can understand your doubts about me, because you think you have practiced what you should, but you still can't reach clear light, so you will question the possibility of clear light

However, from my experience, clear light is definitely not a problem, it is definitely very simple, and many people can reach it.

 

而清楚的光的法身，確實是困難沒錯，但是我自己也有練到過，所以我確定這是存在的，我也願意教人練到這個地方

 

As for the clear light Dharmakaya , it is indeed difficult, but I have reached it myself, so I am sure that it exists, and I am willing to teach people to reach this place.

 

 

[C T]

You seem to thrive on assumptions 

 

@awaken

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

As for the clear light Dharmakaya , it is indeed difficult, but I have reached it myself, so I am sure that it exists,

I have as well, as have others here.

It is indeed possible as I mentioned earlier.

 

1 hour ago, awaken said:

and I am willing to teach people to reach this place.

I have a teacher and am not looking for another but thank you for the offer. I have doubt whether it is possible to effectively teach someone this material when communication is so difficult. Trying to guide people through the subtle and intricate practices of inner space and light using Google translate does not seem an effective or responsible way to teach. There must be precise and effective communication, otherwise people may misunderstand and become misguided.

Don’t you agree?

[awaken]

3 hours ago, C T said:

You seem to thrive on assumptions 

 

@awaken

 

如果我是這種人，請你不要理我，好嗎？

 

如果我是這種人，你還跟著我，那有問題的人就是你了

 

If I am this kind of person, please leave me alone, okay?

If I'm this kind of person and you're still following me, then you're the one with the problem

 

[awaken]

1 hour ago, steve said:

I have as well, as have others here.

It is indeed possible as I mentioned earlier.

 

I have a teacher and am not looking for another but thank you for the offer. I have doubt whether it is possible to effectively teach someone this material when communication is so difficult. Trying to guide people through the subtle and intricate practices of inner space and light using Google translate does not seem an effective or responsible way to teach. There must be precise and effective communication, otherwise people may misunderstand and become misguided.

Don’t you agree?

 

 

你之前說你沒有，現在又說有，到底哪句話是謊話？

雖然你說謊了，但是我不想說謊

我寫這些東西，其實目標不在你身上，如果你有看過我寫的文章，你就會知道怎麼回事

 

我已經在網路上教了很多年了，我在現實生活中，除了我家人之外，沒有人知道我在練這個

即使在網路上，我的學生也不知道我是誰

 

你如果想知道我的教學成效，請你自己去ＱＱ問

我的學生會明白告訴你

但是你前面的說謊行為讓我對你印象不太好

我覺得你應該只是那種話隨便說說的人而已

你應該沒那個行動力去ＱＱ問我的學生

 

You said you didn't have it last time, and now you say yes, which one is a lie?

Although you lied, but I don't want to lie

I write these things, in fact, the goal is not on you, if you have read the articles I wrote, you will know what is going on

 

I've been teaching online for years and I'm in real life and no one but my family knows I'm cultivating this

Even on the Internet, my students don't know who I am

If you want to know the effectiveness of my teaching, please go to QQ yourself

my students will tell you

But your lying behavior  made me not very impressed with you

I think you should be just that kind of casual talker

I doubt you have the motivation to QQ ask my students

 

一個真正練出清淨光的人，不會這樣隨便說謊

A person who has really reach clear light would not lie like this

 

我希望你好好珍惜自己的話語

I hope you cherish your words

 

 

 

 

[awaken]

為了避免這個主題，只剩下人身攻擊這類沒營養的話

我希望留下一些可供新人參考的資料

 

清淨光法身，如果是在入睡過程中產生，必然會有意識的浮起

如果是整個過程都在入睡當中，並且沒有意識的浮起

那這種清淨光法身只不過是夢境的一種，算是幻境，假的

 

如果有意識的浮起，那必然跟陽生二階段發生的過程相同

也就是在你出現清淨光法身之前，你就已經經歷一段很長的演化歷程

 

從幾何圖形光，到大曼陀羅光，到圓月，紅日等等，你都經歷過了

 

這樣你出現的清淨光法身，才是真實的法身

 

各位要知道，任何光的演化，必然伴隨意識的演化，而且依照一定的次序

 

不會單獨出現

 

如果單獨出現的，必然是幻境

 

In order to avoid this theme, only personal attacks are left with no nutrition.

I hope to leave some information for newcomers to refer to

 

If the Dharmakaya of pure light is produced during the process of falling asleep, consciousness will inevitably arise.

If the whole process is falling asleep, and there is no consciousness floating

Then this kind of pure light Dharmakaya is just a kind of dream, it is an illusion, fake

 

If it arises consciously, it must be the same process as the second stage of Yang Sheng.

That is, before you appear in the Pure Light Dharmakaya, you have already gone through a long evolutionary process.

From geometric light, to big mandala light, to full moon, red sun, etc., you have experienced it

 

In this way, the pure light Dharmakaya you appear is the real Dharmakaya

You must know that the evolution of any light must be accompanied by the evolution of consciousness, and in a certain order

does not appear alone

If it appears alone, it must be a illusion.

Edited June 13, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

另外能夠出現清淨光法身，必然同時在睡眠上有著重大的改變

 

也就是你是醒著睡覺的，你的睡眠就像是沉在水底當中，雖然身體是睡著的，但是你的內在是清醒的

 

如果你沒有這種狀態，你的清淨光法身非常有可能只是一場夢境而已

 

而做這種夢，還把夢境當成清淨光法身，這種情況不是好事

 

這表示價值觀在某一個程度上，已經很嚴重的扭曲了

 

強烈的想蘊導致強烈的行蘊

 

In addition, to be able to appear the Pure Light Dharmakaya, there must be a major change in sleep at the same time.

That is, you sleep awake, your sleep is like sinking in the bottom of the water, although your body is asleep, but your inner is awake.

If you don't have this state, it's very likely that your Pure Light Dharmakaya is just a dream.

And when you have this kind of dream, you also regard the dream as the Dharmakaya of pure light. This situation is not a good thing.

This means that the values have been seriously distorted to a certain extent.

A strong aggregate of perception leads to a strong aggregate of mental formations

[C T]

20 minutes ago, awaken said:

 

如果我是這種人，請你不要理我，好嗎？

 

如果我是這種人，你還跟著我，那有問題的人就是你了

 

If I am this kind of person, please leave me alone, okay?

If I'm this kind of person and you're still following me, then you're the one with the problem

 

 

If you want to be left alone, then please tone down the assumptions. 

And by the way, saying that I'm following you is also another assumption. 

 

Assumptions do not inspire much faith in your mastery claims. 

Not to mention how easily you feel provoked even when there wasn't any provocative intent. 

[awaken]

在楞伽經當中，佛陀曾經提到『如幻三摩地』

 

『如幻三摩地』是產生八地法身的環境

 

也就是最初清淨光法身出現的環境

 

In the Langka Sutra, the Buddha once mentioned "Illusionary Samadhi"

"Illusory Samadhi" is the environment in which the Dharmakaya of the eight places is generated

This is the environment in which the Pure Light Dharmakaya appeared in the first place.

 

 

[awaken]

清淨光法身的產生之前，必然有滿月和睡眠無夢的情況產生

 

如果沒有滿月，也沒有睡眠無夢，那你所謂的清淨光法身，可能只是你眾多謊言中的另外一個而已

 

Before the formation of the Pure Light Dharmakaya, there must be a full moon and sleep without dreams.

If there is no full moon, no sleep and no dreams, then your so-called pure light Dharmakaya may be just another one of your many lies

 

 

 

[awaken]

另外，我也希望不要有人把清淨光法身，解釋為烏肝

 

因為清淨光法身必然是『非四大所造，似四大所造』，是有人的外型的

 

不是一團北極光就能稱為清淨光法身

 

In addition, I also hope that no one will interpret the Pure Light Dharmakaya as black liver

Because the Dharmakaya of Pure Light must be "not created by the four great elements, but like the creation of the four great elements", and it has the appearance of a human being.

It is not a cloud of Northern Lights that can be called the Pure Light Dharmakaya

 

當然更糟糕的解釋是，把清淨光法身解釋為一種心中空虛的感覺，那這種就更糟糕了

 

可以說是一種很嚴重的謊言了

 

希望有人不要犯這種低級的錯誤

 

Of course, the worse explanation is to interpret the pure light Dharmakaya as a feeling of emptiness in the heart, then this is even worse

It's a serious lie

Hope someone doesn't make such a low-level mistake

Edited June 13, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

30 minutes ago, C T said:

 

If you want to be left alone, then please tone down the assumptions. 

And by the way, saying that I'm following you is also another assumption. 

 

Assumptions do not inspire much faith in your mastery claims. 

Not to mention how easily you feel provoked even when there wasn't any provocative intent. 

 

 

 

講些有營養的話吧

 

如果你的嗜好就是人身攻擊，那我必須把你列入忽略名單，你的文字已經沒有什麼參考價值了

 

Say something nutritious

 

If your hobby is personal attacks, then I must put you on the ignore list, your words have no reference value

 

 

你是一個很愛假設別人都在假設的人，你這種人很少見，跟搬運法那種法執不同，但是同樣不是什麼正派的修行者

 

You are a person who likes to assume that everyone else is assuming. You are rare, different from the law enforcement of the transfer method, but you are also not a decent practitioner.

 

道不同不相為謀

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by awaken

[C T]

1 minute ago, awaken said:

 

 

 

講些有營養的話吧

 

如果你的嗜好就是人身攻擊，那我必須把你列入忽略名單，你的文字已經沒有什麼參考價值了

 

Say something nutritious

 

If your hobby is personal attacks, then I must put you on the ignore list, your words have no reference value

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're free to feel and react in whichever way you deem helpful towards maintaining a certain illusion about your lofty claims to mastery. 

 

As for reference value, frankly, none of what you've proposed above contains any. 

 

No point beating around the bush since you don't seem interested in anyone else's thoughts except your own.