Lucid vs. vivid dreaming mental states and control illusion

[Owledge]

I am wondering what possible connections are between them. Got any experiences or extensive studies in this?

 

Because long time ago I read about people saying they became able to control what to do in their lucid dreams, like watching movies on a screen and such.

And this control aspect is very interesting to me, because I have had dreams where I became aware that I was dreaming (and typically leading to waking up shortly after), but due to them not being vivid dreams it always felt to me like just part of the dream script. You know, in normal dreams you seem to be acting from a less higher-intellectual point but just to some degree on autopilot or such. But is this actually so? I would assume based on common sense that in order to truly be able to do whatever you want in your dream, you would have to transcend that vague dream consciousness, and that would inevitably lead to vivid dream state, basically I would theorize that that very deliberate willpower enactment and control is what is creating the vivid perception, kinda like an inevitable effect of it.

But people who have had vivid dreams should be able to clarify this easily: Are there vivid dreams where you are still only in that 'autopilot script mode'? Is that even possible?

[forestofclarity]

22 hours ago, Owledge said:

But people who have had vivid dreams should be able to clarify this easily: Are there vivid dreams where you are still only in that 'autopilot script mode'? Is that even possible?

 

Yes. Not all vivid dreams are lucid, and not all lucid dreams are vivid. But when a dream is lucid AND vidid, that is something. 

[dwai]

In my experience, there are actually three categories of dreams (could be more, but these are what I've encountered). 

1. Normal dreams (ND) -- where one isn't really in control but is a dream character going through a dream universe
2. Lucid dreams (LD) - where one IS the dream character, in control of one's actions and depending on the level of lucidity, the dream universe itself. It is still all "made up" (Pratibhasika Satya). 
3. Spiritual lucid dreams (SLD)  - where one is the witness of the dream characters, universe and often interacting with deities or other beings. There is complete clarity that this is a dream, and the contents of the dreams are often spiritual teachings/transmissions being given. 

I found that SLDs are most vivid, and are similar in nature to Astral/Causal travels.  

[forestofclarity]

4 minutes ago, dwai said:

In my experience, there are actually three categories of dreams (could be more, but these are what I've encountered). 

1. Normal dreams (ND) -- where one isn't really in control but is a dream character going through a dream universe
2. Lucid dreams (LD) - where one IS the dream character, in control of one's actions and depending on the level of lucidity, the dream universe itself. It is still all "made up" (Pratibhasika Satya). 
3. Spiritual lucid dreams (SLD)  - where one is the witness of the dream characters, universe and often interacting with deities or other beings. There is complete clarity that this is a dream, and the contents of the dreams are often spiritual teachings/transmissions being given. 

I found that SLDs are most vivid, and are similar in nature to Astral/Causal travels.  

 

No spiritual non-lucid dreams? 

[dwai]

31 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

No spiritual non-lucid dreams? 

Yes, those too. But can those be categorized as "normal dreams", right?  

[doc benway]

On 11/18/2021 at 6:11 PM, dwai said:

Yes, those too. But can those be categorized as "normal dreams", right?  

 

Similarly, I tend to classify SLD as a simple subset of LD. While there is certainly great merit in being able to turn LD into spiritual practice and ‘networking’ they are not necessarily more vivid or significant than LDs.

 

Lucidity has varying degrees in dream and in dreamless sleep, as well as in waking dreams or visions. I think there is a continuum of lucidity throughout all levels of waking, sleeping, and dreaming states.

 

 

[dwai]

14 hours ago, steve said:

I think there is a continuum of lucidity throughout all levels of waking, sleeping, and dreaming states.

That is my experience as well.