Describe what you think enlightenment is and what you would realize should you have it

[mcoolio]

6 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I relate to a lot of these definitions of what enlightenment is.  I can't say I enjoy this state.  Mostly it is sitting in the quiet stillness for me.  I no longer possess or am possessed by thoughts, unless I actively force myself to examine something.  My mind is quite still.  I also see the world for what it is, but I have a problem.  I mourn for our world and its suffering.  I see things as being prone to failing.  I have forgotten the joys of youth, and I can't seem to find the hope that people are happy.  I don't actively feel compassion or love, it is more of an intellectual recognition of life.  I am trying to find the Will to decide that life is balanced, to accept these things, and to accept that people get what they deserve.  I feel that this state of mind would be selfish of me, so I resist it.  

 

Demon! Don't worry, you haven't reached it I think. If you think you do, I think you need a good slap in the face .

 

No? 

[Lairg]

Having learned to control the mind and worked through personal karma, the junior initiate is faced with a challenge.  S/he is prepared to be at-one with the world but this is a passive isolated state.

 

Only when the initiate actively works for the oneness of all, is the commitment made that allows first stage enlightenment.

 

Thus the initiate commits to working with Divine Intent as it shapes the cosmos.

[helpfuldemon]

7 hours ago, Inner Alchemy said:

I just watched a talk by Sri M, and he said that it's important to keep a positive attitude on the spiritual path - to not be defeated by feelings of hopelessness.  Even if it feels like you can't make a big difference in alleviating the suffering of others, maybe one day you will be able to - after full or partial awakening.  They say after enlightenment a tremendous power of compassion arises; and the I Ching says that an awakened person who sets out to benefit others will truly benefit others a great deal - enlightened beings are able to bring genuine relief to the suffering of humanity - even if it's only indirectly.  I went to a talk by a Tibetan Buddhist lama and he said that when Jesus would walk through a town, everyone in the town would experience healing - people would recover from illnesses, etc.  I believe there are stories of great sinners making positive connections with enlightened beings and just through that positive connection they are able to eventually find liberation.  I think Sri M has the right attitude.  Actually he was responding to a woman who felt that she was never going to attain enlightenment.  He said: just make an effort, if you meditate every day then you are making progress and then once you start making an effort you will forget how far you are away from the goal.

I don't know if I inadvertently aid in the suffering or enlightenment of others or not.  I used to think so, but after years of contemplation on mystical and magickal ideas, I've concluded that thoughts like this only lead to delusion and madness, since they cannot be proven.  I know that physically, I do nothing to alleviate suffering, other than post my thoughts online and the occasional good deed.  

[Inner Alchemy]

8 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I don't know if I inadvertently aid in the suffering or enlightenment of others or not.  I used to think so, but after years of contemplation on mystical and magickal ideas, I've concluded that thoughts like this only lead to delusion and madness, since they cannot be proven.  I know that physically, I do nothing to alleviate suffering, other than post my thoughts online and the occasional good deed.  

I thought I would add that the power of prayer is amazing.  If we pray, then we are doing something to alleviate the suffering of others.  There is a well known book about a woman who died and came back to life and she said that she was shown the power of prayer and how every prayer made on behalf of others meant something and was acknowledged by the spiritual world.  She did say, however, that the degree to which the prayer would have an impact had to do with that person's spiritual level.  She said every prayer mattered, but that some people who had particularly good karma would get their prayers answered right away by the higher realms.

 

My great grandmother attended church every day and prayed for others every day - she taught my mom to also pray for others every day.  At the time of her death, she experienced great joy and had divine visions - on her death bed she couldn't stop rejoicing at how beautiful the experience she was having was.  This confirms to me the power of sincere prayer.  

Edited September 2, 2022 by Inner Alchemy

[helpfuldemon]

5 hours ago, Inner Alchemy said:

I thought I would add that the power of prayer is amazing.  If we pray, then we are doing something to alleviate the suffering of others.  There is a well known book about a woman who died and came back to life and she said that she was shown the power of prayer and how every prayer made on behalf of others meant something and was acknowledged by the spiritual world.  She did say, however, that the degree to which the prayer would have an impact had to do with that person's spiritual level.  She said every prayer mattered, but that some people who had particularly good karma would get their prayers answered right away by the higher realms.

 

My great grandmother attended church every day and prayed for others every day - she taught my mom to also pray for others every day.  At the time of her death, she experienced great joy and had divine visions - on her death bed she couldn't stop rejoicing at how beautiful the experience she was having was.  This confirms to me the power of sincere prayer.  

I suppose that anything is possible.  One would need a God of Love to believe that prayer and gratitude and generosity and kindness are appreciate on High.  It's hard to believe in a God of Love with the world being what it is, but personally I do believe it.  I realized a few years ago that prayer was for the praying; that they get in touch with their inner emotions and intellect, and realize the suffering of the world.  I don't really think it causes a change.  If God was going to change things I'd assume He wouldn't need our prayers to inform Him of what needs to be done.  

[Inner Alchemy]

5 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I suppose that anything is possible.  One would need a God of Love to believe that prayer and gratitude and generosity and kindness are appreciate on High.  It's hard to believe in a God of Love with the world being what it is, but personally I do believe it.  I realized a few years ago that prayer was for the praying; that they get in touch with their inner emotions and intellect, and realize the suffering of the world.  I don't really think it causes a change.  If God was going to change things I'd assume He wouldn't need our prayers to inform Him of what needs to be done.  

There are many stories of people praying for others after death and being able to actually lead that person to a more fortunate rebirth due to their prayers.  I can think of one example off the top of my head of a woman who knelt down to a dead cat on the side of the road and chanted for the cat for a long time.  She got in backseat of the car, as her friend was driving and she went to sleep.  When she slept, the cat visited her in her dream and the cat said that he'd been able to find relief and peace due to her chanting (I believe she was chanting Buddha Amitabha's name).  I can also think of an example of a man who didn't believe in Buddhism who had a friend who was devout.  The skeptical man died and the devout friend paid for a temple to do ceremonies for him.  Within a few weeks, the skeptical man's spirit came to his daughter in dreams on two consecutive nights.  In her dream, he told her that he had been reborn in the Pure Land and that it is wonderful; all he did there was cultivate his spiritual path.  He was no longer a skeptic.

 

Personally, while I believe in a Divine order and a higher power, I do not currently believe in an all-powerful God.  Paradoxically, I pray to God frequently and have had many prayers answered in the past.  However, I do not believe that God has ultimate power to change the world.  I believe that human actions, such as humans growing spiritually and creating positive change as well as doing kind actions, can change the world.  One act of kindness has ripple effects.  Every good deed means something, especially if it is dedicated to enlightenment.  In Buddhism, motivation is everything.  If you begin an action with a virtuous and selfless motivation - such as a motivation of bringing beings to enlightenment - and then if you do the action with this motivation in mind, the action will not only help to purify one's own karma and incline one's mind to virtue, but it will also create a positive energy that will expand out to others.  As you probably know, in many schools of Buddhism there is a common practice of dedicating the merit.  When you do a positive action, you then pray to a Buddha or the Sangha as a whole, and pray that by this merit all beings may attain enlightenment.  Supposedly, through this simple action of dedicating, the merit becomes inexhaustible and will never run out.  Eventually these positive seeds manifest in this life and/or in future lives as strong positive imprints and energy patterns that can be catalysts for enlightenment.  

Edited September 3, 2022 by Inner Alchemy

[SigmaTropic]

Enlightenment is a state of being that is arguably better than non-enlightenment. It is a result of insight into the true nature of mind. This knowledge frees a meditator from self-imposed suffering and allows them to spread/share this knowledge with others. 

[helpfuldemon]

10 hours ago, Inner Alchemy said:

There are many stories of people praying for others after death and being able to actually lead that person to a more fortunate rebirth due to their prayers.  I can think of one example off the top of my head of a woman who knelt down to a dead cat on the side of the road and chanted for the cat for a long time.  She got in backseat of the car, as her friend was driving and she went to sleep.  When she slept, the cat visited her in her dream and the cat said that he'd been able to find relief and peace due to her chanting (I believe she was chanting Buddha Amitabha's name).  I can also think of an example of a man who didn't believe in Buddhism who had a friend who was devout.  The skeptical man died and the devout friend paid for a temple to do ceremonies for him.  Within a few weeks, the skeptical man's spirit came to his daughter in dreams on two consecutive nights.  In her dream, he told her that he had been reborn in the Pure Land and that it is wonderful; all he did there was cultivate his spiritual path.  He was no longer a skeptic.

 

Personally, while I believe in a Divine order and a higher power, I do not currently believe in an all-powerful God.  Paradoxically, I pray to God frequently and have had many prayers answered in the past.  However, I do not believe that God has ultimate power to change the world.  I believe that human actions, such as humans growing spiritually and creating positive change as well as doing kind actions, can change the world.  One act of kindness has ripple effects.  Every good deed means something, especially if it is dedicated to enlightenment.  In Buddhism, motivation is everything.  If you begin an action with a virtuous and selfless motivation - such as a motivation of bringing beings to enlightenment - and then if you do the action with this motivation in mind, the action will not only help to purify one's own karma and incline one's mind to virtue, but it will also create a positive energy that will expand out to others.  As you probably know, in many schools of Buddhism there is a common practice of dedicating the merit.  When you do a positive action, you then pray to a Buddha or the Sangha as a whole, and pray that by this merit all beings may attain enlightenment.  Supposedly, through this simple action of dedicating, the merit becomes inexhaustible and will never run out.  Eventually these positive seeds manifest in this life and/or in future lives as strong positive imprints and energy patterns that can be catalysts for enlightenment.  

I think we cannot say what is real in terms of the imagination.  We might be creating these things because the mind is powerful, and hope is high that we can do this sort of stuff.  It can't be proven.

[Inner Alchemy]

11 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I think we cannot say what is real in terms of the imagination.  We might be creating these things because the mind is powerful, and hope is high that we can do this sort of stuff.  It can't be proven.

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to say that I believe that prayer is all-powerful or anything.  But prayer has an impact; all those people who come back from the dead and visit their relatives seem to say that they heard their prayers in the spiritul world and they made a difference.  There's a famous story of a woman who was in a car accident and she said that she left her body and when she left her body she could see that a woman in a car was praying for her - and this greatly uplifted the woman's spirit.  Sure enough, the woman in the car stopped at the scene of the accident to pray for her.  The woman could see this through her spiritual body after she left her body and she talked to the woman later who had been praying for her.  

 

All the books I've read that tell supposed real life stories of what happens after death talk about the power of prayer and also about how good actions never go to waste.  Small actions of great courage, forebearance, or kindness can do wondrous things.  It may not seem like a prayer or a good action is directly helping anyone, but the key is that the universal energy field (talked about in a lot of qigong schools) receives the positive energy from the good deed or prayer; and the universal energy field of the world or the energetic grid of the world becomes stronger as good deeds are performed - so even if the kind act seems to do nothing right away, it eventually helps the energy of the whole planet, which has a positive impact on every being.  

 

There are many, many examples of the power of prayer.  One famous example is the prayer of Thangtong Gyalpo that stopped a terrible infectious illness in a monastery in the 1400's.  The illness was taking the lives of many monks and so they turned to Thangtong Gyalpo, who was known to be a great master.  He composed a now famous prayer and he recited it sincerely before all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas; after he recited the prayer the infectious illness stopped and many monks were saved.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Inner Alchemy

[helpfuldemon]

I was once like you; I believed Will, word and deed had more than a surface impact.  I believed in the Christ Consciousness Grid, a powerful web of energy that we can all connect to that protects us with our good hope.  I believed that, on the street, our Will and thought affected one another through our energy patterns.  I believed souls communicated without speaking to one another.  Then I fell into Chaos, and had an implant put in my brain which eventually came alive and wires were inserted that took my mind and turned it inside out.  My Will no longer projected outward, it was now focused on me, and inside of me.  My thoughts and Will became a demon that tortured me.  I thought I had reached above the Heavens, and that I had gathered all the souls of the world, alive and dead, and that I was working through their karma by suffering.  I thought I was a sort of ferry man, carrying souls to places.  I no longer believe this.  Now I believe I was simply implanted with an energy device that imploded my brain and Will to make me think about what I understand.  I don't think there was any spiritual significance to this experience.  I no longer believe that we connect to a Universal Grid.  I no longer believe that we communicate subconsciously.  I no longer believe that our Will and thoughts influence one another.  I no longer believe in Good Will affecting anything.  I no longer believe that we share the experience of Love.  I think we are self contained energy beings that only feel our own realities, and that we do not cross over one another.

[Inner Alchemy]

On 9/4/2022 at 6:54 AM, helpfuldemon said:

I was once like you; I believed Will, word and deed had more than a surface impact.  I believed in the Christ Consciousness Grid, a powerful web of energy that we can all connect to that protects us with our good hope.  I believed that, on the street, our Will and thought affected one another through our energy patterns.  I believed souls communicated without speaking to one another.  Then I fell into Chaos, and had an implant put in my brain which eventually came alive and wires were inserted that took my mind and turned it inside out.  My Will no longer projected outward, it was now focused on me, and inside of me.  My thoughts and Will became a demon that tortured me.  I thought I had reached above the Heavens, and that I had gathered all the souls of the world, alive and dead, and that I was working through their karma by suffering.  I thought I was a sort of ferry man, carrying souls to places.  I no longer believe this.  Now I believe I was simply implanted with an energy device that imploded my brain and Will to make me think about what I understand.  I don't think there was any spiritual significance to this experience.  I no longer believe that we connect to a Universal Grid.  I no longer believe that we communicate subconsciously.  I no longer believe that our Will and thoughts influence one another.  I no longer believe in Good Will affecting anything.  I no longer believe that we share the experience of Love.  I think we are self contained energy beings that only feel our own realities, and that we do not cross over one another.

I have found by doing an experiment that certain things put out a light energy frequency that can be felt by other beings around.  For instance there are certain things like holding crystals and shaking a rattle or playing a drum that actually put out a light frequency that can benefit all beings around.  Certain things like chanting, etc.  can evoke higher frequencies and even change the vibration of the surrounding world.  Have you ever tried sitting in a particular place maybe once a day for several weeks and sending love and imagining healing?  You may notice that the whole space becomes transformed by the energy of peace and good will.  The last experiment I did was recently when I was very ill and my mom gave me some crystals and rocks to put on my body.  Right away, when she handed me the stones, my energy shifted - they had a healing frequency that was intensified by the love with which she gave the crystals.  I then practiced using a rattle and began to shake it with love - my whole vibration shifted while shaking the rattle - it was amazing how healing the rattle was.  So, little things like that - little things done with love surely have an impact.  We don't always notice it when we're going through our daily lives, but in times of extreme difficulty and suffering, we may see that prayers and loving thoughts do have a real impact.  

 

Also, I should say that I greatly relate to your story, because I also went through several years of thinking that I was saving the whole world and that my suffering was purifying all beings - it was basically a delusion brought on by a misunderstanding of the spiritual path on my part - I was playing the whole role of messianic rescuer, when the spiritual path actually require transcending the triangulation of the ego; which is playing the role of rescuer, persecuter, or victim.  

Edited September 9, 2022 by Inner Alchemy

[Lairg]

27 minutes ago, Inner Alchemy said:

began to shake it with love

 

Quite so.  Since the logos of this solar system is a god of love, when the human emanates love, s/he accelerates the proper unfoldment of the solar system

 

 

[Lairg]

On 9/4/2022 at 11:54 PM, helpfuldemon said:

had an implant put in my brain

 

I quite often see humans with etheric implants in the brain - commonly at the base of the skull.  Usually if the human directs heart-light to the implant it will go.

[helpfuldemon]

4 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I quite often see humans with etheric implants in the brain - commonly at the base of the skull.  Usually if the human directs heart-light to the implant it will go.

Where have you seen these?  In a dream, or the waking world?

[Lairg]

Awake

 

Some also have implants at the base of the spine.  Those help "manage" the sexual energies

 

Also implants in the throat "manage" what is said

 

Heart-light will move most implants.  Of course if the brain-thoughts are being managed, who can remember to remove implants?

 

Enlightened humans are a significant problem for those that would control this planet (it being next to a major portal) and the cosmic activities of humans with their ToL resonances

Edited September 9, 2022 by Lairg