What's a mystic and how to become one?

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, SilentHand said:

That he lusted after his aunt is established in text and that he laid with her (given his adulterous behaviour) is presumed.

 

 

Well, gosh that proves it I suppose  .... unless ;

 

I will see your   ' is established in text '

 and raise you a  'Is not established in text .  '     

 

Stay tune folks, our new expert in, not just  Arabic , but the regional and temporal Arabic of when and where it was written , is about to try and prove some internet  slander . 

 

.... or  just  do the 'usual carry - on ' . 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Nungali

[SilentHand]

On 08/06/2022 at 7:25 AM, Nungali said:

 

Well, you are off to a fine beginning here .

 

What is meant is ; morality seems immaterial as Mohammed founded a world religion that is still very active today  (and I might add, regardless of any historical issues many modern day Muslims  are considered moral ).

 

However you yourself seem full of morality , I am sure you have a lot more 'advice' to give on the traditions of western magick .

If you are going to suspend me for 2 weeks at least have the courtesy to:

1) Not put words in my mouth
2) Not delete my post so that it can actually be read by people who can make up their own minds on the matter.
3) Actually put up something of a defence based on some facts (which you have completely failed to do) rather that just what you "think" is appropriate due to your pre-determined political correctness,

So here's some facts, just 2 examples for you:

-The Islamic conquest of the Sogdians alone exterminated 17 million people in Central Asia and eliminated them from the history books, that's almost 3 times more Jews the well lubricated modern Nazi machine managed to kill during WW2, except for that this enormous blood bath in the name of "Allah" occurred in the early medieval times without trains and gas chambers.

-The conquest of India by Islam exterminated an estimated 100 million people, this invasion alone accounts for more death than all the wars in the name of Christendom combined throughout history. Buddhism itself was exterminated in India due to this conquest.

You argue that because Islam is widespread today that gives it credibility, you are very much mistaken, many viruses too are very successful and widespread to this day (and many are older than mankind itself), that doesn't mean we should accept them and not try to eliminate them, be it HIV, Coronavirus or Islam.

I speak on behalf of the millions of extinguished Hindus and Buddhists (not to mention Christians and others like the Persians) who were murdered in their millions by this death cult & plague, and who in unison say a resounding "No" to the false prophet & spiritual fraud Mohammed (who very much should be judged by his actions in his life, which were disgraceful even by the standards of his time, certainly no Jesus or Buddha there).

So...
 

Quote

What's a mystic and how to become one?

You are speaking to one and anyone who has had any sort of higher realisations or what one would call mystical experiences will not take issue with what I have written above, because they will know. The same can be said for Muslims who upon discovering higher realities and mysticism cease to be Muslims (this is quite often the case and an occurence within the Sufi sect which is why they are often persecuted and vilified by other Muslims), because put quite simply once you have discovered the truth of this reality, it's difficult to accept any lies anymore.

I will finish with this very fitting verse from the New Testament:

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:12

[terry]

I was selling my jewelry at the wednesday market at keauhou the other day and one group of people shopping was from india. I told them my daughter in law was from india and they were all excited and asked me where. I told them she was from gujarat, and the woman said oh yes, so am I. I told her my daughter in law was a graduate of gujarat university and she got even more excited, so am I!

I told her, she's a muslim and the excitement immediately died and they had no further interest in my family, my son who became a muslim and went on the haj, and my granddaughter who is muslim.

 

All your hate speech about islam hatred killing and fundamentalism applies much more so to xtianity. Religions are organized to control people and are always misused. Xtianity in america is practically a hate religion. Whereas most muslims are genuinely moral.

 

Arguing that one religion is better than another is mere opinion in any case. God will judge between the quick and the dead.

 

A discussion not worthy of a mystic. But the ugliness should be deplored.

 

God is great.

[terry]

On 2/10/2022 at 2:21 PM, Lairg said:

 

Being a mystic is an optional stage between being a self-centered human and being an enlightened operator in the local cosmos.

 

Mystics see and feel whatever comes their way - depending upon the frequencies in which their consciousness lives.  

 

Eventually, to progress, all mystics must become doers rather than watchers.

 

    Some responses...

 

I don't think being a mystic is optional. The more mystical you are, the less optional it is. As rumi says, God is The Only Real Agent. Being a mystic involves accepting that you are a slave of an overwhelmingly powerful master, and not a very good slave at that.

 

To the mystic, seeing, feeling and consciousness are a meshwork, indra's net of jewels.

 

There is no progress and no doing for mystics. Jesus said, "Become passersby" and "The kingdom is within you and without you."

 

lao tzu:

"The way that can be called a way is not the true way." (tao tao not tao)

 

 

To the one who wants to be a mystic: ypu need to escape your conditioning. Seeking more conditioning will only enmesh you deeper. Anyone who wants you as a student is someone you don't want as a teacher. Ultimately the path is for the solitary. The spiritual way is a bucket o' crabs. The crabs in a bucket can't escape because they climb over each other and pull each other down, while the solitary crab crawls right out. Chuang tzu spoke of the fishes in the shallows drying out and moistening each other with slime and spittle, while the deep sea fish swims freely wherever it wants.

 

 

john prine:

 

blow up your tv

throw away your paper

move to the country

build you a home

plant a little garden

grow a lot of peaches

try and find jesus

on your own

 

 

[terry]

On 2/10/2022 at 1:14 PM, Nungali said:

   ( and I have spent over 40 years examining the subject in both theory and practice  ... just so ya know I am not some random internet goop sprouting something I just looked up pretending I have knowledge about it )

 

 

 

beginner's mind is the way

[mcoolio]

8 minutes ago, terry said:

Ultimately the path is for the solitary.

 

Some responses...

 

I don't think the path is only for the solitary. I would even like to think that - for most of us at least - the more you are aligned with the path, the more you engage fully in relationship with the other.

 

And for some of us, perhaps, this also means establishing relationship with the teacher (and the other students).

 

If the individual starts his journey along the path, is it wrong that the initial impulse was the wanting to become a 'mystic'?

 

[mcoolio]

This 'wanting to become' will be left behind eventually, and the practitioner keeps on practicing.

[Lairg]

45 minutes ago, terry said:

Being a mystic involves accepting that you are a slave of an overwhelmingly powerful master

 

Who told you to be a slave?  

 

 

[SilentHand]

On 19/08/2022 at 9:03 PM, terry said:

I was selling my jewelry at the wednesday market at keauhou the other day and one group of people shopping was from india. I told them my daughter in law was from india and they were all excited and asked me where. I told them she was from gujarat, and the woman said oh yes, so am I. I told her my daughter in law was a graduate of gujarat university and she got even more excited, so am I!

I told her, she's a muslim and the excitement immediately died and they had no further interest in my family, my son who became a muslim and went on the haj, and my granddaughter who is muslim.

 

All your hate speech about islam hatred killing and fundamentalism applies much more so to xtianity. Religions are organized to control people and are always misused. Xtianity in america is practically a hate religion. Whereas most muslims are genuinely moral.

 

Arguing that one religion is better than another is mere opinion in any case. God will judge between the quick and the dead.

 

A discussion not worthy of a mystic. But the ugliness should be deplored.

 

God is great.

Ah yes because now facts are "hate speech", laughable.

Tell that to the female poet Mohammed had murdered because she dared to criticise him, such an "enlightened" being he was, not to mention the other people he had beheaded.
 

Quote

Being a mystic involves accepting that you are a slave of an overwhelmingly powerful master, and not a very good slave at that.

No that just means you are completely asleep and in the thrall of the illusion, some might go as far as saying trapped in the worship of the demiurge - as all muslims are. Being a mystic eventually results in union and freedom from your perceived "overwhelming master", which illustrates perfectly how unenlightened Islam is, what more can we expect when the founder of Islam was a spiritual fraud and nothing more than a belligerent warlord. There is nothing spiritual to be found in Islam except for the conquest of "the world of caesar" and the subjugation of mankind to its most base animalistic existence as you so nicely illustrated.

Edited August 20, 2022 by SilentHand

[terry]

On 8/19/2022 at 10:53 AM, mcoolio said:

 

Some responses...

 

I don't think the path is only for the solitary. I would even like to think that - for most of us at least - the more you are aligned with the path, the more you engage fully in relationship with the other.

 

And for some of us, perhaps, this also means establishing relationship with the teacher (and the other students).

 

If the individual starts his journey along the path, is it wrong that the initial impulse was the wanting to become a 'mystic'?

 

 

In nonduality there is no other.

 

The "solitary" is the one. Microcosm, macrocosm, both microcosm and macrocosm, neither microcosm or macrocosm.

 

Wanting to be a mystic engages us in the paradox of the desirability of non-desire. Anything can be justified as a stage to something better. If there are no stages, and no progress,  then it isn't about desire but about recognition, waking up. It is not wrong to want to be free, it is just stupid. Realize your freedom. Exercise it.

 

 

[Nungali]

On 20/08/2022 at 6:46 AM, terry said:

 

 

beginner's mind is the way

 

yes, it seems you have one !  Beginner's mind is the one that thinks a lone crab can crawl out of a bucket  and a bunch of crabs cant , because when they 'crawl over each other'  they 'pull each other down '

 

 

 

Typical textbook lounge chair 'wisdom'  .... which is totally removed from any observations of nature, the actual event or things used as the example .

[terry]

On 8/19/2022 at 10:55 AM, mcoolio said:

This 'wanting to become' will be left behind eventually, and the practitioner keeps on practicing.

 

Eventually, it will still be now.

[Nungali]

2 minutes ago, terry said:

 

Eventually, it will still be now.

 

A bit of a syntax problem now ?    

[terry]

On 8/19/2022 at 11:11 AM, Lairg said:

 

Who told you to be a slave?  

 

 

 

 

lol...

 

 

The lover seeks no escape, no freedom, seeks only to be the slave of the beloved.

 

Service is perfect freedom.

 

Beats being a slave to conditioning, to the "they" whose conventionality provides us with normality and the security of numbers. And habituates us to unsustainable living for the benefit of an oligarchic ruling class of complete idiots.

[terry]

1 hour ago, SilentHand said:

Ah yes because now facts are "hate speech", laughable.

 

 

Your :facts" are all bullshit. The numbers obviously absurd. But I really don't care, you obviously want to divide people. 

 

 

1 hour ago, SilentHand said:

There is nothing spiritual to be found in Islam except for the conquest of "the world of caesar" and the subjugation of mankind to its most base animalistic existence as you so nicely illustrated.

 

There is nothing spiritual to be found in submission to the will of god, you say. I have defined "god's will" as what is, that is, what actually occurs in real life. Submitting to necessity. Studying the nature of reality to better serve "god's will."

 

The garden of eden is the world, god is the will of life to thrive. Adam is humanity, the servant of god whose task is to cultivate and care for the garden in accordance with god's will that life collectively thrive. 

 

What you in essence are saying is that the individual ego, the individual's personal desire to thrive at the expense of any of the rest of life and the environment, should be substituted for the individual's best efforts to do the best they can to further all of life, so that sentience might thrive in harmony and community.

 

I could cast aspersions on your favorite religions and on you personally as easily as you do. But I hate hatred.

 

[Lairg]

12 minutes ago, terry said:

The lover seeks no escape, no freedom, seeks only to be the slave of the beloved.

 

That is not what I experience as love.  Sometimes love is tough love.  Love lets the loved one go free.  Families do that stuff all the time.

 

Perhaps you refer to sexual desire

[terry]

20 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

yes, it seems you have one !  Beginner's mind is the one that thinks a lone crab can crawl out of a bucket  and a bunch of crabs cant , because when they 'crawl over each other'  they 'pull each other down '

 

 

 

Typical textbook lounge chair 'wisdom'  .... which is totally removed from any observations of nature, the actual event or things used as the example .

 

 

It is  famous quote from a zen master.

 

You probably wouldn't like: "Eat when hungry, sleep when tired. Fools will laugh at me, but the wise will understand."

 

 

Every time you realize your spiritual pretensions are all bullshit and that you are really just like everyone else, you go back to square one, and start over. Eventually you go back to square one and recognize it for the first time. Home. No need for progress, nowhere to go. Then beginner's mind can operate. We become three years old again. We laugh a lot, and dream of animals.

 

[terry]

23 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

A bit of a syntax problem now ?    

 

If you say so.

 

(lol)

[terry]

7 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

That is not what I experience as love.  Sometimes love is tough love.  Love lets the loved one go free.  Families do that stuff all the time.

 

Perhaps you refer to sexual desire

 

Well it is definitely erotic. Sexual desire is the sublimated source energy of all spiritual striving.

 

"Families" are the product of sex, are totally involved in individual sexual desire.

 

They told the buddha that happiness was having a wife, and sons. The buddha told them that suffering was having a wife, and sons. Especially "tough love' which generally isn't love at all.

 

 

When sufis speak of the beloved, it is recognized that all feeling is within oneself, all love is experienced within one's self. One's own desire for love, which sufis call "longing" is the very love that we seek.

[terry]

19 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Love lets the loved one go free. 

 

God lets you go free. This freedom is a burden.

 

This is what the whole of the spiritual life is about.

 

Think about it.   (lol)

[terry]

from the gospel of thomas

 

 

(49) Jesus said: Blessed are the solitary and the elect, for you will find the kingdom, for you came forth from it, (and) you will return to it again.

[terry]

ain't this a bucket o' crabs?

[mcoolio]

Every time you realize your spiritual pretensions are all bullshit and that you are really just like everyone else, you go back to square one, and start over. Eventually you go back to square one and recognize it for the first time. Home. No need for books, nothing to read. Then beginner's mind can operate. We become three years old again. We laugh a lot, and dream of animals.

 

[helpfuldemon]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:38 PM, Eduardo said:

The path of the mystic is one of the most misunderstood and poorly defined, it is always a call from the divine forces or superior powers that vitalize the universe and that attract the sincere pilgrim of this world.
If your call is sincere, you will attract your true Master and then begin the Great Return Journey or genuine Esoteric Initiation, remain faithful to your call, and discard the false teachers and charlatans who appear trying to cloud your path.
Powers or psychic experiences should not be sought because it is just another trap that bogs down sincere seekers.
The path of the mystic is the path of selfless service and spiritual nobility, thus, an ideal of service is imposed for the benefit of living beings, which often implies forgetting oneself and not a few efforts.

Whoever wants to reach spiritual initiation must be so thirsty to know the truth as to make his spiritual path the number one goal of his life, the most important, the essential.
It is a waste of time to take this as something secondary, as a matter to which it is enough to dedicate a certain number of hours a week and the rest of the time to not worry about it. Spiritual discipline is something of all times because it is a transformation that takes place in the soul of the individual and therefore becomes something inseparable from his character.

With everything that we have said, it is established that the Spiritual Initiation is a new birth of the mystic, it is the regeneration through the awakening of the Consciousness.
This regeneration allows him to return to his original state of purity because it puts him in contact with the Universal Spirit, which is the part of God that dwell in him.
It is freedom from fate, causality, error, ignorance, lies and pain; it is coming face to face with the truth and coming to identify with the Cosmic Consciousness or God.

 

I find this to be very accurate.  Initiation isn't for the weak or feint of heart.  It is painful and depressing and torturous.  You also have to have your Will and intention perfected, which isn't easy, can take years.  Can't be distracted by worldly things, though the world is your concern.  Once your Will and intention are perfected, they will call on you.  I don't know if it is necessary to be initiated, only that it does occur and that it is a lengthy process of moral purification and philosophical perfection.  It isn't a path to riches, and in fact, it isn't a path to fame.  It is a path to understanding.  You will probably witness many supernatural events that defy logic and science.  These teachers do not verbally instruct; they inflict madness and leave you to your own devices.  In the end, you will probably have lost everything in this pursuit, and have nothing to show for it but your own understanding, and even then there is no guarantee that you will understand, for God is vast and many layered, and His motives can be suspect.

[mcoolio]

15 minutes ago, terry said:

ain't this a bucket o' crabs?

 

You making fun of us? Nothing wrong with being a bunch of crabs! And no solitary escape attempts! We will pull you back in the bucket with the rest of us!