Ethics of creating immersive video games, from a daoist perspective?

[freeform]

Yeah that’s a good point @Creation. I’m not sure the exact mechanics of how it works - for instance my teacher (and a few others in the group) can perfectly check ones meditation when present… but I’m not sure this works so easily on a global scale.

 

As far as I understand once a certain Jhanna has been attained the meditator sort of pierces a vale and exists on a plane where time/space works a little different. They don’t need a picture or name or anything - they can just pinpoint the place where the meditator is and even sense the ‘flavour’ of their cultivation.

[freeform]

12 hours ago, stirling said:

Sounds very Vajrayana. 

Yes - that was my impression too. Before meeting my meditation teacher I went to a few long term retreats around Burma - and they were all the standard Vipassana style retreats.

 

Eventually I was introduced to a very small group that’s not publicly accessible. I spent some time there - their focus was on absorption - lots of it - and a lot less talking and general monk activities (no collecting alms for example - alms were brought to them… much less sweeping than other places too 😄). I also saw that lazy or unengaged people were asked to leave.

 

The second time I visited that place I was introduced to another teacher within the group who only taught householders and had his students separated from the rest of the monks. He comes from a Weizza tradition (an esoteric Buddhist tradition in Burma). Much longer sitting sessions and a very palpable transmission from the teacher.

 

With assistance I was able to enter Samadhi. I thought I had accessed it before - but I hadn’t according to teacher. This was very different.

 

12 hours ago, stirling said:

What would these practices be intended to accomplish?

The Jhanna practices? End result is enlightenment. What I explained about what’s happening ‘under the hood’ is my Daoist teacher’s explanation of what should happen automatically with Jhanna type training. No visualisation involved  

 

12 hours ago, stirling said:

My experience is that there are certainly teachings given by teachers personally, sometimes invented on the spot, that won't make it into books and require a certain level of insight. 

Time and again I’ve seen that what the ‘inner door’ disciples of teachers are taught and what the other monks and students are shown is completely different. I have found that in the west the majority of what is taught has been learned in the second group.

 

12 hours ago, stirling said:

I'm guessing you don't mean all at once. There are definitely teachers of shamatha that require that sort of sitting to confirm your skill level. I'm good for a couple of hours, but everybody needs to eat and defecate occasionally. 

All at once yes - no breaks. Luckily when samadhi appears (or even Jhanna if you’re lucky)  - body processes (including pain, tiredness, hunger etc) just don’t register at all. My last ‘test’ was around 30hrs and none of this was a problem - in fact at the end I stood up just fine… a stark difference to the much shorter sits where samadhi isn’t achieved. I assume there’s some energetic support from the teacher.

 

12 hours ago, stirling said:

I think almost any arhat can do at least 4th jhana. I haven't met one that can't. You don't have to be an arhat to do them, however. Your teacher is most likely an arhat. My experience is that some people are just naturally good at absorptions. Completing the four path model creates a number of variations in skill set. 

Yes according to my teacher (also my Chan friends) - Jhanna absorption is rare. As I said before it’s considered that there are only a small number of people on earth who are at the level of the formless Jhannas. At least in how they interpret Jhanna. My meditation teacher is one of these few - and he’s not a normal human by any stretch of the imagination 😄

 

12 hours ago, stirling said:

It would be interesting to differentiate what this level this might be. Are we talking about stream entry... arhatship... enlightenment... something else?

Yes - I totally agree. Much easier when there’s a common vocabulary. Unfortunately it seems the meaning of these terms will often change and shift person to person - culture to culture - century to century. 

[Indiken]

24 minutes ago, freeform said:

With assistance I was able to enter Samadhi. 

 

Can you describe your experience in Samadhi ?

[freeform]

3 minutes ago, Indiken said:

 

Can you describe your experience in Samadhi ?

i actually think it’s a bit of a disservice describing an experience like that… it’s also difficult to put into words.

 

What surprised me was that the state had a sort of insight into the nature of arising and passing baked in. 
 

I met a guy who described what to me sounded very much like my first samadhi - but he understood it to be enlightenment. 

 

(It’s definitely not enlightenment 😂)

[Indiken]

5 minutes ago, freeform said:

i actually think it’s a bit of a disservice describing an experience like that… it’s also difficult to put into words.

 

What surprised me was that the state had a sort of insight into the nature of arising and passing baked in. 
 

I met a guy who described what to me sounded very much like my first samadhi - but he understood it to be enlightenment. 

 

(It’s definitely not enlightenment 😂)

 

What effect Samadhi had on you ?

 

[freeform]

51 minutes ago, Indiken said:

 

What effect Samadhi had on you ?

 

Helped make existence funnier and more beautiful than ever before  

[Asher Topaz]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:02 PM, freeform said:

 

Usually entering and attaining Jhanna is only ever achieved at a lengthy retreat… sometimes the transformation period after attainment means that the person is not functional for a few months to several years. 
 

For instance at the juncture between attaining the 4th and entering the 5th there’s usually a long retreat where the meditator is sat in a kind of suspended animation for weeks, months even years. (No food, no sleep, no obvious body processes like breathing or heart beating apparently)
 

They have specific huts for this. Usually that master’s disciples need to watch over the master’s body during that period.

 

After attaining the 3rd Jhanna usually the meditator is also asked to take a retreat because they begin to affect people around them profoundly (resulting in mental breakdowns for most people). They also produce various light based phenomena around them which can get them in trouble.

 

So it can certainly be troublesome to be in society at this stage of one’s practice.

Generally it’s only ever the Daoists at this level that return to society - people from most other traditions tend to go into isolation or monastic life. From what I understand - there are not many Daoists at this level though.

So basically, jhana is the Buddhist version of alchemy. But its the opposite where it starts with a yin shen from quieting the mind which fills the dan tian with yin chi  to the explosion of yang chi that opens the extraordinary meridians in the body. Nan Huai chin and William Bodri talked about this. But every time I ask Daoist they say it cant be true. That their energy manipulation methods are the correct way and the Jhana method only leads to yin spirit  or dullness.

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Asher Topaz said:

So basically, jhana is the Buddhist version of alchemy.

The mind likes to simplify. Whenever I find my mind reaching for an “A is basically B” I can be sure that I’m oversimplifying something that shouldn’t be. 
 

The result of Jhanna and the result of alchemy is indeed similar… but Jhanna and alchemy are the two approaches by which this result is achieved.

 

It is not the case that Jhanna creates the Dantien or any of the other alchemical attainments…

 

There are indeed esoteric Buddhist methods that indeed are ‘the Buddhist version of alchemy’… Jhanna isn’t.

 

From what I’ve been told - Jhanna is inaccessible to the vast majority of people in this era… most people are simply incapable of achieving it - even if they follow all the methods perfectly… even if they have great teachers. 
 

It’s similar to how most people are incapable of becoming a chess grandmaster or an Olympic power lifter etc… 
 

Alchemy in essence makes the cultivation process possible for a larger number of people.

 

We have two ingredients - Qi and Concentration….

 

While Jhanna works with one ingredient - concentration… alchemy uses both Qi and concentration (some traditions only use Qi).

 

Consciousness is so subtle and difficult to grasp that many people think that they’ve developed it - but in reality they haven’t.

 

So many people go about thinking they’ve achieved Jhanna - but in reality they’ve achieved a very basic level of absorption.

 

I certainly did for years!

 

That’s just one aspect of why Jhanna is so difficult.

 

Some people are naturally gifted with a high degree of consciousness and they do, indeed have the ability to enter Jhanna comparatively easily.

 

But these are not ‘ordinary’ people. They were probably already considered prodigies as small children for instance.

 

The stories of miraculous results of Jhanna meditation are not just stories. The various siddhi, miraculous events and supernatural effects are very much true and even tested for to ensure Jhanna has really been achieved.

 

Most Buddhists I’ve talked to that are advanced in their cultivation don’t think that Jhanna is possible for householders at all. They consider long term retreat and a renunciate lifestyle necessary to be able to achieve any Jhanna.

 

This isn’t everyone’s view of course. Some teachers teach all 8 Jhannas in a weekend seminar… it’s of course up to each individual’s discernment to evaluate what’s true

 

 

[Asher Topaz]

54 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

 

Alchemy in essence makes the cultivation process possible for a larger number of people.

 

We have two ingredients - Qi and Concentration….

 

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes at some point in my studying of jhanas I realised that there was a difference between enetering those states and attaining them. There is physical and energetic change when you attain them which requires being in those states uninterrupted for a long period of time. Almost like ur waiting for the body to catch up.

I would like to know which book do u think has the best alchemy instructions. The best I have read is Damo Mitchell. He explains it well from direct experience. Unfortunately I can't get a teacher at the moment.

[freeform]

On 01/03/2022 at 2:30 PM, Asher Topaz said:

I would like to know which book do u think has the best alchemy instructions.

Yea Damo’s is good. However - I don’t believe you would get far with book info alone.

 

I suggest learning Neigong to start with. You won’t get far in alchemy without a LOT of Qi - and Neigong is the easiest tool for building it.