Anchoring the breath - regarding attention

[S:C]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

真正的練法，不管是道家還是佛家，都是呼吸下手，但是並非停留在呼吸，可能幾秒鐘之後，就轉移到氣感，幾分鐘之後，就轉移到光感，半小時之後，就轉移到入定，一個多小時後，就出定，幾乎都是這樣的程序。

Could you go into detail with this? 

I thought the whole point was to focus on the body part as a scope / form (but not the physicality), while gently letting the body breathe. 

 

What is the "sense of Qi" 就轉移到氣感，"sense of light" 就轉移到光感，"concentration" 就轉移到入定 and  what do you mean with "manifested / fixed"一就出定? 

 

(That is kind of what I gathered with translation.)

 

So you are saying it goes from "breath" -> "sense of qi" -> "sense of light" -> "concentration" -> "form"? And that depending on how long you 'sit and practice'? 

The goal is somewhat centering, coming to the center, I guess? Or does it go beyond that? 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by questionmark
hope I quoted alright, language issues

[awaken]

當你把注意力卡在一個地方的時候，你的注意力就無法轉化，所以你會聽不懂，從呼吸轉化成氣感，從氣感轉化成光感，從光感轉化成入定，這一整串的流程，而且我也沒強調要sit的情況下練習，我強調的是轉化，姿勢是不重要的，你可以站著，你可以坐著，你也可以躺著，姿勢不是重點，重點是轉化。

 

重點也不是coming to the center，重點是你的注意力是有彈性的，可演化的，由表層演化到裡層的，所以當你把注意力鎖定在呼吸，或是鎖定在center，都是錯的，你的注意力是跟著你的功態演化的，是跟著一起演化的，這樣才能練到入定，四禪八定。

 

注意力從呼吸下手是對的，但是『停留』在呼吸，絕對是錯的，因為不管怎麼練，只要你把注意力鎖死在一個範圍內，這都是錯誤的練法，這樣會造成演化的障礙，你的注意力，你的意識，必須跟著你的功態做轉化，這樣才能越練越深。

 

當你的注意力是有彈性的狀態下，雖然你從呼吸開始，但是你一下子就會發現到，身體會有氣感產生，氣感是什麼，就是熱感，電流感，針刺感，流動感等等，剛開始你會感覺到皮膚表面有電流感，這時候如果你忽視這股細微的電流感，你又把注意力拉回呼吸，這股電流感就會消失，但是如果你把注意力放在電流感，電流感就會開始變化，慢慢的從皮膚表面，往身體裡面變化。

 

當你的注意力是有彈性的情況下，這股電流感走到一個程度，你會打開第三眼，會看見光，各種光的顏色會在你的第三眼出現，這就是光感，這種光通常比較像北極光，會在你眼前流動，有時候光比較強，也會形成一個圓。

 

當你的注意力是有彈性的情況下，你的意識會慢慢進入恍惚，當你的功力比較差的時候，你進入恍惚，你就失去知覺，但是當你堅持這樣練，可能過了三個月之後，你的恍惚之中，就會出現覺知，會出現『識神隱，元神顯』的現象，也就是你的身體開始失去知覺，但是你的內在卻開始清醒，這就是入定態的萌芽。

 

不管是氣感，光感，或者入定態的演化，你都需要『有彈性的注意力』，但是你卻把注意力鎖死在呼吸上面，這樣的動作，讓你障礙了所有後面的演化，你如果堅持把注意力鎖死在呼吸，這樣你永遠都練不到後面更深的東西了。

Edited March 11, 2022 by awaken

[Creation]

5 hours ago, Piyadasi said:

I think they are very helpful 🙏

@Creation @-_sometimes

Just from experience, if you follow what Damo teaches, the fluid-like experience will come. Just needs time and skill. I definitely don't have it close to the level of freeform though (need something to work towards anyways!)

Are you practicing his whole system? I'm thinking of people who are just practicing from his free videos. 

 

In my case I don't think I would have been able to get very far without movement exercises to help my tissues release. Not that I've gotten very far .

 

I've seen Damo teach many variations of anchoring the breath, with hand positions, variations in the sequence of locations for awareness, physical stretches, and adding reverse breathing or song breathing as a next step. This speaks to freeform's point about being flexible/playful with it.

[S:C]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

當你的注意力是有彈性的情況下，這股電流感走到一個程度，你會打開第三眼，會看見光，各種光的顏色會在你的第三眼出現，這就是光感，這種光通常比較像北極光，會在你眼前流動，有時候光比較強，也會形成一個圓。

 

Sounds poetic (translated in my language). Thank you!

 

Truth is, I am a bit afraid of too much or too strong experiences at the moment. Awakening of the inner body sounds pretty intense. My main ambition here is to relax and get - without sleeping or entering deep sleep - to a state of inside calmness - which hopefully gives me the benefit and relaxation of deep sleep (without actually deep sleeping), not looking for more - at the moment at least -, so maybe this is the wrong exercise for me then. But thank you anyways.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by questionmark

[dwai]

For the OP, attention is passive. Intention is active. Attention and intention are two aspects of the mind. 
 

To see very easily, focus on your thoughts and in this very moment, simply give it 100% focus,  to watch your mind for the next thought to rise. That is attention. Take your time, observe, don’t make any judgement of what happens, just observe, repeat, 5 seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 minute and  so on. 
 

Next, direct your mind to the palm of your left hand. Keep it there. That is intention. Intention directs your mind. Now let it rest on the palm of your left hand. Just let your mind rest there. That is attention.
 

After sometime, shift your attention to the right palm. Rest it there. When you are able to stay in one point of a few minutes without wavering, start with your attention on the left palm, and expand the area to your right palm as well. That is your attention expanding to cover more than one point at a time. With time, and practice, your mind can expand to cover more than point - your entire body, then your energy field and beyond. When you can rest your mind, observing the entirety, that is expanded attention. 

[Shadow_self]

7 hours ago, questionmark said:

What, I believe, helped me when I did this exercise months back, was like Mitchell said, to listen to the body, - to feel awareness like the body part mentioned is a loudspeaker (struggling with English here, maybe the word I mean is amplifier? like the new sonos thing, where they have microphone (in) and loudspeaker (out) and giving out a bigger signal than from the source it comes from). (it works with music relaxation.)And it worked best for me (like losing body contours, but gaining presence (unfitting word?) in surroundings)  when I was mentally (& ideally physically) exhausted, so after mentally stimulating work over long periods of time. Then it worked great. Now, not so much, at the moment I struggle with focus and mind wandering. And when I do this now, it seems like I project/imagine the body part in front of me, but not at the place where it actually is. Which is wrong, I guess. 

 

(I don't do this with any other purpose, than to slow down brain activity and get to a more relaxed physical / balanced state, lol.)

 

 

@Shadow_self, I believe in the exercise Mitchell said _not_ to follow the breath in and out, but to rest awareness on the specific scope, am I wrong here or are you following another lecture? 

 

It's probably good to have anatomical knowledge, - I only know (via surfing & other stuff) that there are muscles where I never knew there could be some... so that's a challenge too, for me, or listen to the diaphragm... where's that supposed to be and what's that like (tough one...)?

 

 

 

I think you just misunderstood me... I said trace  (As in trace down)...not follow in and out  

Edited March 11, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Piyadasi]

11 hours ago, Creation said:

Are you practicing his whole system? I'm thinking of people who are just practicing from his free videos. 

 

In my case I don't think I would have been able to get very far without movement exercises to help my tissues release. Not that I've gotten very far .

 

I've seen Damo teach many variations of anchoring the breath, with hand positions, variations in the sequence of locations for awareness, physical stretches, and adding reverse breathing or song breathing as a next step. This speaks to freeform's point about being flexible/playful with it.

Yeah, whole system. I see your point... but it's hard to say, could be individual.

I would certainly advise anyone to cover all bases with a complete system though!

Edited March 12, 2022 by Piyadasi

[awaken]

11 hours ago, questionmark said:

Sounds poetic (translated in my language). Thank you!

 

Truth is, I am a bit afraid of too much or too strong experiences at the moment. Awakening of the inner body sounds pretty intense. My main ambition here is to relax and get - without sleeping or entering deep sleep - to a state of inside calmness - which hopefully gives me the benefit and relaxation of deep sleep (without actually deep sleeping), not looking for more - at the moment at least -, so maybe this is the wrong exercise for me then. But thank you anyways.

 

 

我並不想說服你，我只是告訴你，你正走在一條錯誤的道路，因為你所走的道路，走不到你要的地方。

 

注意力集中在一處，是不可能達到真正的放鬆的，因為你的注意力是處在一種緊張集中的狀態，你採用緊張集中的狀態，卻想要追求放鬆，這是背道而馳，我不想說服你來相信我，我寫這些，只是在你錯誤的方向底下，留下紀錄，或許等你錯了二十年之後，你才會想起這段話。

 

把注意力集中在呼吸，卻想要追求放鬆，就像是你想要上網打一篇文章，你的心中已經想好了文章的內容，但是當你開始打開電腦之後，你卻把你的精力集中在如何擺放雙手的姿勢，你就這樣擺放了一小時，以至於時間過了，你還沒開始打字。

 

對我來說，這是顯而易見的笑話，但是你卻把這種笑話當成真理，所以我不想說服你，只想留下紀錄，證明我告訴過你，這條路是錯誤的。

Edited March 12, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

11 hours ago, dwai said:

For the OP, attention is passive. Intention is active. Attention and intention are two aspects of the mind. 
 

To see very easily, focus on your thoughts and in this very moment, simply give it 100% focus,  to watch your mind for the next thought to rise. That is attention. Take your time, observe, don’t make any judgement of what happens, just observe, repeat, 5 seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 minute and  so on. 
 

Next, direct your mind to the palm of your left hand. Keep it there. That is intention. Intention directs your mind. Now let it rest on the palm of your left hand. Just let your mind rest there. That is attention.
 

After sometime, shift your attention to the right palm. Rest it there. When you are able to stay in one point of a few minutes without wavering, start with your attention on the left palm, and expand the area to your right palm as well. That is your attention expanding to cover more than one point at a time. With time, and practice, your mind can expand to cover more than point - your entire body, then your energy field and beyond. When you can rest your mind, observing the entirety, that is expanded attention. 

 

 

這種擴展注意力的練習，在佛教裡面稱為『四大』觀想，在南懷瑾的書裡面有提過，這種練法是我三十幾年前練習過的，但是不適合作為究竟法。

 

 

[freeform]

Just want to add that @awaken is quite right that awareness continues past the physical form of breathing, to the energy body, to awareness itself.

 

However she (I think?) is very much mistaken that this method is aiming to have attention stuck in any way at all.

 

Probably something lost in translation… ‘stability of mind’ has nothing to do with being stuck. No ‘focusing’ no ‘holding’ no ‘tension’ at all. In fact the aim is to release all mental control that you can.

 

Secondly the main aim of the method is to enable full absorption into the ‘form’ of breathing for the purposes of transforming the breath to achieve the 5 key qualities:

 

1. Jing - Quiet

2. Shen - Deep

3. Yu - At Ease

4. Huan - Slow

5. Mian - Cotton Soft

 

Past the stage of Cotton Soft, one begins to transition into the energy body… this is when the sense of self begins to disappear and the energy body moves powerfully. Then physical breath stops and other stuff happens.

 

But that’s not the aim with this practice. 

 

If you want to take things deeper in this direction then a more meditative method is appropriate - like Xin Zhai.

 

This method is more like Neigong than it is like meditative practice.

 

You’ll naturally move beyond it as part of your progress in the arts.

[awaken]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

Just want to add that @awaken is quite right that awareness continues past the physical form of breathing, to the energy body, to awareness itself.

 

However she (I think?) is very much mistaken that this method is aiming to have attention stuck in any way at all.

 

Probably something lost in translation… ‘stability of mind’ has nothing to do with being stuck. No ‘focusing’ no ‘holding’ no ‘tension’ at all. In fact the aim is to release all mental control that you can.

 

Secondly the main aim of the method is to enable full absorption into the ‘form’ of breathing for the purposes of transforming the breath to achieve the 5 key qualities:

 

1. Jing - Quiet

2. Shen - Deep

3. Yu - At Ease

4. Huan - Slow

5. Mian - Cotton Soft

 

Past the stage of Cotton Soft, one begins to transition into the energy body… this is when the sense of self begins to disappear and the energy body moves powerfully. Then physical breath stops and other stuff happens.

 

But that’s not the aim with this practice. 

 

If you want to take things deeper in this direction then a more meditative method is appropriate - like Xin Zhai.

 

This method is more like Neigong than it is like meditative practice.

 

You’ll naturally move beyond it as part of your progress in the arts.

 

 

你很有耐心，氣質也很優雅，但是你練的也有問題，從這段『this is when the sense of self begins to disappear and the energy body moves powerfully. Then physical breath stops and other stuff happens.』來看，就知道你練錯了。The energy body 開始 moves powerfully的時候，the sense of self 還沒開始disappear. 事實上這時候的the sense of self只是處在『一心境』而已，離disappear還有好幾個步驟，所以我說你們練錯了，但是我還是一樣，不想說服你們，只想留下紀錄，看你日後會不會發現自己真的練錯了。

 

你們這種狀況，我在很多人身上看過，這是非常明顯易見的練錯現象之一，稱為『頑空定』，但是在這裡，似乎沒人知道『頑空定』是怎麼一回事。

 

頑空定的一個很大的特徵，就是沒有產生佛家的二禪，也就是道家的烏肝現象，直接從能量的移動，進入一種止息的狀態，這是非常大的特徵，我自己也曾經進入這樣的狀態好幾個月，才發現不對勁，走了出來。

 

不管你是練什麼功，佛家的四禪八定，還是道家的內丹，必然都是走同樣的程序，當你進入頑空定，你就注定走上了錯誤的道路，頑空定在修行也稱為『死木搞灰』，意思就是如同一灘死水，無法練到『真空妙有』。

 

或許有些人會提到印度的中脈七輪的系統，我也跟各位說，中脈七輪系統也是走一樣的路線，七輪的幾何圖形，就是陰極生陽的陽生內景，那個不是想像出來的，也不是觀想用的，那是真實出現的陽生內景，也不是幻境，會出現陽生內景二階段以上的，必然是走過欲界幻境的，不過我這話也不能說得太滿，因為也看到不少人，在陽生內景二階段的初期，就被欲界幻境障礙住的。不過這不是重點，重點是你們這種練法，不要說欲界幻境，連產生欲界幻境的資格都沒有啊，直接在初禪後面就死木搞灰了，其實是比欲界幻境更慘的歧路。

 

 

 

再補充說明，你講到的shen就是神，你用deep來講，這裡就已經錯了，你這裡以為是deep，其實你是『壓抑』所產生的fake deep。真正的意識轉換，不是透過把神壓抑下去的，而是讓神產生一連串的連鎖反應的演化，不管哪個步驟，都不會有壓下去下沈的，所以你這個關鍵地方，練錯了，而且錯得離譜，完全違反中觀之道。

 

你要練禪定，『如實觀』一定是一個非常重要的原則，你處在什麼狀態，你就接受那個狀態，你不要設定一個目標，然後把自己的意識壓抑到你所謂的目標上去，這就是『控制』，這種控制足以毀滅你該出現的所有的演化機制了。

 

 

 

再次補充說明，當你的注意力被你的能量體吸引住，而不會有雜念產生的時候，這時候應該是進入『初禪正定』，初禪正定必然產生『喜覺支』，也就是毫無理由的喜悅，毫無理由的心情好，初禪正定必然沒有所謂的『deep』，只有練成『壓抑型的頑空定』才會產生意識下沈的假象，這是非常非常明顯的特徵，我真的很遺憾，你的老師，把你帶入錯誤的路了。

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by awaken

[anshino23]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

 

 

你很有耐心，氣質也很優雅，但是你練的也有問題，從這段『this is when the sense of self begins to disappear and the energy body moves powerfully. Then physical breath stops and other stuff happens.』來看，就知道你練錯了。The energy body 開始 moves powerfully的時候，the sense of self 還沒開始disappear. 事實上這時候的the sense of self只是處在『一心境』而已，離disappear還有好幾個步驟，所以我說你們練錯了，但是我還是一樣，不想說服你們，只想留下紀錄，看你日後會不會發現自己真的練錯了。

 

你們這種狀況，我在很多人身上看過，這是非常明顯易見的練錯現象之一，稱為『頑空定』，但是在這裡，似乎沒人知道『頑空定』是怎麼一回事。

 

頑空定的一個很大的特徵，就是沒有產生佛家的二禪，也就是道家的烏肝現象，直接從能量的移動，進入一種止息的狀態，這是非常大的特徵，我自己也曾經進入這樣的狀態好幾個月，才發現不對勁，走了出來。

 

不管你是練什麼功，佛家的四禪八定，還是道家的內丹，必然都是走同樣的程序，當你進入頑空定，你就注定走上了錯誤的道路，頑空定在修行也稱為『死木搞灰』，意思就是如同一灘死水，無法練到『真空妙有』。

 

或許有些人會提到印度的中脈七輪的系統，我也跟各位說，中脈七輪系統也是走一樣的路線，七輪的幾何圖形，就是陰極生陽的陽生內景，那個不是想像出來的，也不是觀想用的，那是真實出現的陽生內景，也不是幻境，會出現陽生內景二階段以上的，必然是走過欲界幻境的，不過我這話也不能說得太滿，因為也看到不少人，在陽生內景二階段的初期，就被欲界幻境障礙住的。不過這不是重點，重點是你們這種練法，不要說欲界幻境，連產生欲界幻境的資格都沒有啊，直接在初禪後面就死木搞灰了，其實是比欲界幻境更慘的歧路。

 

 

 

再補充說明，你講到的shen就是神，你用deep來講，這裡就已經錯了，你這裡以為是deep，其實你是『壓抑』所產生的fake deep。真正的意識轉換，不是透過把神壓抑下去的，而是讓神產生一連串的連鎖反應的演化，不管哪個步驟，都不會有壓下去下沈的，所以你這個關鍵地方，練錯了，而且錯得離譜，完全違反中觀之道。

 

你要練禪定，『如實觀』一定是一個非常重要的原則，你處在什麼狀態，你就接受那個狀態，你不要設定一個目標，然後把自己的意識壓抑到你所謂的目標上去，這就是『控制』，這種控制足以毀滅你該出現的所有的演化機制了。

 

 

 

 

 

Translated Google version: 

 

You are very patient and have a very elegant temperament, but there are also problems with your practice. Judging from this paragraph "this is when the sense of self begins to disappear and the energy body moves powerfully. Then physical breath stops and other stuff happens." , you know you are doing it wrong. When the energy body starts to move powerfully, the sense of self has not yet begun to disappear. In fact, the sense of self at this time is only in "one state of mind", and there are still several steps to disappear, so I say you are practicing wrong But I'm still the same, I don't want to convince you, I just want to keep a record, and see if you will find out that you really practiced wrong in the future.

 

I have seen your situation in many people. This is one of the most obvious mistakes in practice. It is called "stubborn emptiness", but here, no one seems to know what "stubborn emptiness" is. thing.

 

One of the great features of stubborn emptiness is that there is no second meditation in Buddhism, that is, the phenomenon of black liver in Taoism. It goes directly from the movement of energy to a state of rest. This is a very big feature. After entering this state for several months, I realized that something was wrong and walked out.

 

No matter what kind of gong you are practicing, the Buddhist four meditations and eight meditations, or the Taoist inner alchemy, you must follow the same procedure. Cultivation is also known as "dead wood turning ashes", which means that it is like a pool of stagnant water, and it is impossible to practice "the wonderful existence of a vacuum".

 

Maybe some people will mention the seven-chakra system of the central channel in India. I also tell you that the seven-chakra system of the central channel also follows the same route. The geometric figures of the seven wheels are the inner scene of the yang generation in which the negative pole generates the yang. What I want to use, that is the real interior scene of yang life, and it is not a fantasy. If there will be a second stage of the interior scene of yang life, it must have passed through the fantasy world of desire, but I can't say too much, because I can't see it. Young people, in the early stage of the second stage of Yang Sheng's interior scene, they were blocked by the illusion of the Desire Realm. But this is not the point, the point is that you practice this method, not to mention the illusion of the desire world, you don't even have the qualifications to produce the illusion of the desire world, you will be dead wood and dust directly behind the first meditation, which is actually worse than the illusion of the desire world. divergence.

 

Let me add that the shen you mentioned is God. If you use deep to say it, you are already wrong here. You think it is deep here, but in fact you are fake deep caused by "repression". The true transformation of consciousness is not by suppressing God, but by allowing God to produce a series of chain reactions of evolution. No matter which step is taken, there will be no suppression and sinking. Therefore, you have practiced wrong in this key part, and It is horribly wrong and totally contrary to the Madhyamika way.

 

If you want to practice meditation, "viewing the truth" must be a very important principle. Whatever state you are in, you should accept that state. You should not set a goal and then suppress your consciousness to your so-called goal. It's 'control', and that kind of control is enough to destroy all the evolutionary mechanics you're supposed to have.

[awaken]

 

謝謝你的翻譯，雖然google翻譯起來有點怪，有些句子有點詞不達意，不過沒關係，我還活著，大家要是覺得怪怪的，可以直接問我。

 

我主要是想告訴大家，不管是佛陀，或者張伯端，都留下了很多練對的證據，希望大家要去看這些證據，不要聽那些練錯的假大師胡扯瞎扯，不要忘記，當年佛陀也是捨棄了兩個老師的錯誤教學，才自己走出一條路。不過張伯端是很幸運的，他有遇到一個真實的修行者，告訴他真正的經驗，但是他比佛陀不幸的是，他不是一個好的教學者，他教的學生沒有給他好的回饋，讓他有留下不傳非人的遺憾，但是我個人的想法，本來人的素質就是爛人比好人多，教學本來就會遇到爛人，所以只好多教幾個，總會遇到一兩個優秀的。比起張伯端，佛陀的作法還是高明多了，佛陀教一堆人，總有幾個成功的。

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by awaken

[dwai]

10 hours ago, awaken said:

 

 

這種擴展注意力的練習，在佛教裡面稱為『四大』觀想，在南懷瑾的書裡面有提過，這種練法是我三十幾年前練習過的，但是不適合作為究竟法。

 

 

Not sure I understood. The translation of what you wrote comes across as follows —

 

This kind of attention-expanding exercise is called the "Four Major" concept in Buddhism. It has been mentioned in Nan Huaijin's book that I practised this practice more than 30 years ago, but it is not suitable for the law.

 

I don’t understand what you meant by “not suitable for the law”.
 

FWIW I didn’t learn this from any book whatsoever - rather, It is a result of my own experience and understanding, based on years of practice. I only shared it because OP seems to have been struggling with understanding what difference between attention and intention is.
 

Also providing a step-by-step guide to try it out for themselves would be helpful in knowing it directly. But for all of this to occur, witnessing awareness needs to be cultivated first. Once there is separation between the witnessing awareness and the mind-body phenomena, rest becomes easy to teach. 

 

For witnessing awareness to manifest, all that is needed is any mechanically repetitive process, like watching the breath. It’s like churning butter from milk/cream — with sufficient repetition, butter naturally separates. Similarly with sufficient repetition of any mechanical action, awareness naturally separates itself, to start witnessing. 
 

 

[awaken]

8 hours ago, dwai said:

Not sure I understood. The translation of what you wrote comes across as follows —

 

This kind of attention-expanding exercise is called the "Four Major" concept in Buddhism. It has been mentioned in Nan Huaijin's book that I practised this practice more than 30 years ago, but it is not suitable for the law.

 

I don’t understand what you meant by “not suitable for the law”.
 

FWIW I didn’t learn this from any book whatsoever - rather, It is a result of my own experience and understanding, based on years of practice. I only shared it because OP seems to have been struggling with understanding what difference between attention and intention is.
 

Also providing a step-by-step guide to try it out for themselves would be helpful in knowing it directly. But for all of this to occur, witnessing awareness needs to be cultivated first. Once there is separation between the witnessing awareness and the mind-body phenomena, rest becomes easy to teach. 

 

For witnessing awareness to manifest, all that is needed is any mechanically repetitive process, like watching the breath. It’s like churning butter from milk/cream — with sufficient repetition, butter naturally separates. Similarly with sufficient repetition of any mechanical action, awareness naturally separates itself, to start witnessing. 
 

 

 

 

google 把『法』翻譯成『law』當然是錯誤的，『法』的意思應該是『方法』method, way

 

我猜你講的 rest應該就是『入定』samadhi吧？

 

我說的你們練錯，就是你們把『呼吸』當成唯一的『所緣』，所緣就是『憑藉的對象』『注意力擺放的地方』

 

事實上，呼吸作為所緣，只是剛開始的時候，而並非唯一，這是你們所犯的最大的錯誤

 

道家講呼吸，通常是當成『風箱』的作用，這個風箱是用來鼓動『武火』，因此一開始注意力是放在呼吸沒錯，但是呼吸不是整個練習的所緣，一旦武火出現，所緣就必須轉換成武火，而武火也會轉變成文火，甚至止火，而烏肝大約是在文火的階段出現，這時候所緣又必須改變成烏肝，所以整個練習過程把所緣放在呼吸，而把呼吸當成唯一的所緣，是一種非常嚴重的錯誤。

 

 

 

你要見證意識的顯現，witness awareness to manifest，你可知道在道家裡面，『意識』是要練到『隱藏』hide，而非『顯現』manifest，你這樣豈不是『背道而馳』run in the wrong way，練到完全相反的方向去了？

 

所以你這裡對於『識的轉化』犯下了一個要命的錯誤，你把『表層意識』當成可以轉變成『覺知』，你可知道不管是佛家的『轉識成智』或是道家的『識神隱元神顯』，都有一個共同的特點，就是『表層意識』都是被停止的，暫停作用的，這樣『無上正等覺』才有可能出現。也就是說，不管你再怎麼練，『表層意識』都不會直接轉變成『無上正等覺』。

 

表層意識有覺察的能力，有覺照的能力，但是這並不表示表層意識就是無上正等覺，我不期待你能了解這一點，但是很抱歉，我一定要把這一點寫出來，因為太多人犯下這個錯了，太多太多了。

Edited March 13, 2022 by awaken

[dwai]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

 

 

google 把『法』翻譯成『law』當然是錯誤的，『法』的意思應該是『方法』method, way

 

我猜你講的 rest應該就是『入定』samadhi吧？

 

我說的你們練錯，就是你們把『呼吸』當成唯一的『所緣』，所緣就是『憑藉的對象』『注意力擺放的地方』

 

事實上，呼吸作為所緣，只是剛開始的時候，而並非唯一，這是你們所犯的最大的錯誤

 

道家講呼吸，通常是當成『風箱』的作用，這個風箱是用來鼓動『武火』，因此一開始注意力是放在呼吸沒錯，但是呼吸不是整個練習的所緣，一旦武火出現，所緣就必須轉換成武火，而武火也會轉變成文火，甚至止火，而烏肝大約是在文火的階段出現，這時候所緣又必須改變成烏肝，所以整個練習過程把所緣放在呼吸，而把呼吸當成唯一的所緣，是一種非常嚴重的錯誤。

 

 

 

你要見證意識的顯現，witness awareness to manifest，你可知道在道家裡面，『意識』是要練到『隱藏』hide，而非『顯現』manifest，你這樣豈不是『背道而馳』run in the wrong way，練到完全相反的方向去了？

 

所以你這裡對於『識的轉化』犯下了一個要命的錯誤，你把『表層意識』當成可以轉變成『覺知』，你可知道不管是佛家的『轉識成智』或是道家的『識神隱元神顯』，都有一個共同的特點，就是『表層意識』都是被停止的，暫停作用的，這樣『無上正等覺』才有可能出現。也就是說，不管你再怎麼練，『表層意識』都不會直接轉變成『無上正等覺』。

 

表層意識有覺察的能力，有覺照的能力，但是這並不表示表層意識就是無上正等覺，我不期待你能了解這一點，但是很抱歉，我一定要把這一點寫出來，因為太多人犯下這個錯了，太多太多了。

Based on your response it seems that much is getting lost in translation. You are making assumptions based on poor translation from English to Chinese, and it’s quite likely that I’m not getting the context of your response. It will be better if you engage in English directly - I feel it will be easier to communicate that way, rather than rely on translation software  

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by dwai

[Creation]

11 hours ago, dwai said:

I don’t understand what you meant by “not suitable for the law”.

Fwiw, law = dharma.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Creation

[Creation]

On 3/11/2022 at 4:19 AM, freeform said:

I realise that these explanations fall short of being very helpful…

 

On 3/11/2022 at 4:06 AM, freeform said:

It’s like coming off junk food.

Not at all, I found you explanations about mental overstimulation very helpful. Whether or not I have the inner resolve to act on your advice is the question.

[awaken]

6 hours ago, dwai said:

Based on your response it seems that much is getting lost in translation. You are making assumptions based on poor translation from English to Chinese, and it’s quite likely that I’m not getting the context of your response. It will be better if you engage in English directly - I feel it will be easier to communicate that way, rather than rely on translation software  

 

 

是你依賴翻譯軟件吧，我可以看得懂英文，問題是你看不懂中文啊

 

你的文章我以前就看過，缺少了反省的能力，所以我根本就不期待你會看得懂我寫什麼，明明是你自己看不懂中文，卻硬要栽贓我看不懂英文，連這一點理解能力都沒有，如何能期待你能理解演化之道呢？我不是寫給你看的，我是寫給這個論壇的其他人看的。

 

我寫出來的這些東西，不是英文或中文的問題，而是你的修煉程度不到，所造成的障礙，你如果無法看得見這層關係，你永遠就在門口繞圈圈，然後自我欺騙是語言的問題

 

你犯了兩個重大的錯誤，好好思考一下，一個就是把呼吸當成唯一，一個就是把鉛當成金。

 

《老子》第五章：「天地之間，其猶橐籥乎，虛而不屈，動而愈出。」

呼吸就跟橐籥一樣，是風箱的作用，鼓動的是火，但是你卻把風箱當成火。

呼吸是一種『推動』的效果，藉由呼吸的推動，加強練功當中的武火，產生小藥，小藥在你們來說，就是能量體的移動，但是卻不止如此，小藥除了能量體的移動，還有更深層的層面，能量體除了給你移動的氣感之外，能量體本身就是光，但是你的注意力太過限縮，造成你的第三眼無法開啟，看不到能量體的光，這也就是烏肝的光，烏肝的光也是小藥，然後進一步開啟心竅，形成兔髓，這也是小藥，你烏肝兔髓都沒有，就在講入定，就在講覺知，真的有點太『不覺知』了。

 

鉛與金是兩回事，鉛孕育於識神，金孕育於純然的元神，你如果這兩個搞不清楚，千萬不要說你在練丹道，頂多是你在練氣功。

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

4 hours ago, Creation said:

Fwiw, law = dharma.

 

你很棒，這個翻譯應該是如此，連你都看得出來，卻有人看不出來，顯見他在逃避真正的問題

 

dharma有兩種解釋，一種是類似道家的道，道可道，非常道。一種是法界的現象。我這邊的解釋是比較接近修煉的路線。

[dwai]

5 hours ago, awaken said:

 

是你依賴翻譯軟件吧，我可以看得懂英文，問題是你看不懂中文啊

 

你的文章我以前就看過，缺少了反省的能力，所以我根本就不期待你會看得懂我寫什麼，明明是你自己看不懂中文，卻硬要栽贓我看不懂英文，連這一點理解能力都沒有，如何能期待你能理解演化之道呢？我不是寫給你看的，我是寫給這個論壇的其他人看的。

 

我寫出來的這些東西，不是英文或中文的問題，而是你的修煉程度不到，所造成的障礙，你如果無法看得見這層關係，你永遠就在門口繞圈圈，然後自我欺騙是語言的問題

 

你犯了兩個重大的錯誤，好好思考一下，一個就是把呼吸當成唯一，一個就是把鉛當成金。

 

《老子》第五章：「天地之間，其猶橐籥乎，虛而不屈，動而愈出。」

呼吸就跟橐籥一樣，是風箱的作用，鼓動的是火，但是你卻把風箱當成火。

呼吸是一種『推動』的效果，藉由呼吸的推動，加強練功當中的武火，產生小藥，小藥在你們來說，就是能量體的移動，但是卻不止如此，小藥除了能量體的移動，還有更深層的層面，能量體除了給你移動的氣感之外，能量體本身就是光，但是你的注意力太過限縮，造成你的第三眼無法開啟，看不到能量體的光，這也就是烏肝的光，烏肝的光也是小藥，然後進一步開啟心竅，形成兔髓，這也是小藥，你烏肝兔髓都沒有，就在講入定，就在講覺知，真的有點太『不覺知』了。

 

鉛與金是兩回事，鉛孕育於識神，金孕育於純然的元神，你如果這兩個搞不清楚，千萬不要說你在練丹道，頂多是你在練氣功。

 

आप बहुत मजाकिया हैं, और निष्क्रिय-आक्रामकता को एक नई ऊंचाई पर ले गए हैं। ऐसा लगता है कि आप दूसरों की प्रथाओं और पदों के बारे में अपनी कृपालु टिप्पणियों को छिपाने के लिए चीनी में पोस्ट कर रहे हैं, जबकि ऐसा करने का साहस नहीं कर पा रहे हैं जिसका सीधे जवाब दिया जा सकता है। मुझे आपको यह बताते हुए खेद हो रहा है कि यह आप पर एक व्यक्ति के रूप में, निश्चित रूप से एक "स्व-घोषित" शिक्षक के रूप में बल्कि खराब रूप से दर्शाता है!

[dwai]

9 hours ago, Creation said:

Fwiw, law = dharma.

FWIW, That’s a poor translation imho. Dharma is an untranslatable. It doesn’t mean “law”, it doesn’t mean “rules”, it doesn’t mean “doctrine”. It literally means, “that which upholds the source” (dhr - to uphold, ma - source).  

[Creation]

When Buddhist texts were translated into Chinese, they chose word that would typically translate to law to translate the Sanskrit word dharma. In a Chinese religious context, then, it came to take on the full implications of the original Sanskrit word, as would be expected.

 

Feel free to take it up with Kumarajiva or Xuanzang if you think they were wrong.

[liminal_luke]

...

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by liminal_luke

[freeform]

10 hours ago, Creation said:

Whether or not I have the inner resolve to act on your advice is the question.

Chicken or the egg situation

 

Less mental stimulation… more stability… less compulsive, habitual reactivity - all translates to a gradual increase in inner resolve.

 

One of the biggest benefits of silent retreats, in my opinion