mopaineikung.com is it legit?

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

I think the buns forum is the best place for such discussion.

 

 

Is this 'kitchen' getting a little too hot for you    ?   

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Why? Im not trolling you am I? (I've no such interest)

 

Im not being disrespectful am I?

 

Why be a forum member here, then encourage what could be an interesting discussion to take place elsewhere. I think a few people could do with an understanding of the conditions that led to the current situation

 

 

 

Its interesting  ....   I have never seen a turtle squirm before .

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Buns or none bro.

 

 

Then we must conclude you are bailing out ... because you cant answer the logical and reasonable questions posed to you .... not playing fair ..... knocking the pieces of the board  .....  taking your bat and ball and going home .

 

 

THAT is why these discussions devolve the way you predict ... because of these type of tactics used when people get out debated .

 

By the way ... was it YOU that set up buns   ?   One wonders  you have a  need to divert traffic from  here to there  ? 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

As I've explained it's best not to do this here, and I've explained why. 

 

The buns forum is the only option for the conversation to happen that I know of.

 

Best wishes to you.

 

 

 

[Shadow_self]

6 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Then we must conclude you are bailing out ... because you cant answer the logical and reasonable questions posed to you .... not playing fair ..... knocking the pieces of the board  .....  taking your bat and ball and going home .

 

 

THAT is why these discussions devolve the way you predict ... because of these type of tactics used when people get out debated .

 

By the way ... was it YOU that set up buns   ?   One wonders  you have a  need to divert traffic from  here to there  ? 

 

I am starting to think based on their narrative, they may not know the truth of the matter.

[Nungali]

2 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I am starting to think based on their narrative, they may not know the truth of the matter.

 

 

Of course we do   ! 

 

But we are not prepared to discuss it here.   

 

 

 

[Iliketurtles]

29 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Is this 'kitchen' getting a little too hot for you    ?   

 

Basically it boils down to Nungali,  Mo Pai threads that stretch on and on wind up with people being banned. 

 

The Dao Buns thedaobuns.com is set up to allow for this without disrupting this forum here. 

 

It is a win win.

 

 

[Iliketurtles]

25 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Then we must conclude you are bailing out ... because you cant answer the logical and reasonable questions posed to you .... not playing fair ..... knocking the pieces of the board  .....  taking your bat and ball and going home .

 

 

THAT is why these discussions devolve the way you predict ... because of these type of tactics used when people get out debated .

 

By the way ... was it YOU that set up buns   ?   One wonders  you have a  need to divert traffic from  here to there  ? 

 

Long drawn out 100, or even 1000 page posts can occur on the buns forum, they cannot occur here, and they if attempted people get banned, that is the long and short of it.

 

[Iliketurtles]

19 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I am starting to think based on their narrative, they may not know the truth of the matter.

 

That is certainly your prerogative to believe that, if you want to have a long discussion on the topic you are welcome to do it on the buns forum where it won't create a problem here.

 

[Shadow_self]

4 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

That is certainly your prerogative to believe that, if you want to have a long discussion on the topic you are welcome to do it on the buns forum where it won't create a problem here.

 

 

Please not the following terms

 

"I am starting" : I say this because you did not seem aware John was instructing several westerners long after Jim said he was not.

"Dont understand the truth" : Based on what you said that you believe it was because of a spirit that John stopped teaching Jim/Kostas.

 

Its not my agenda to believe this so much as I cannot really infer anything else based on you not wanting to discuss it further...If you believe this forum to be such a toxic place...why bother being a member here? and why bother posting in these topics?

 

You can have a perfectly reasonable rational talk here....No need for alternative forums, book quotes and preformed responses ad infinitum and so forth

[Earl Grey]

I think the main draw is being able to insult each other on the buns site, but based on the way things are going here, I don't think it will get very far since there's no reciprocal good faith argument, and I predict it will go the same as it does here historically, just with more insults and four-letter words.

 

Short of everyone going there to talk (and people won't), this thread will just sizzle and burn out after a few jabs and futile attempts to have a conversation with a reluctant representative of the SOMADs (preferred name for western students of Mo Pai, Students of McMillan Andreas Dervenis).

 

I do have to credit Turtles/Venus with being far more engaging in other topics though, and like his amicability as much as I did Mr. Coffee before. Too bad MegaMind ruined whatever potential good will could have developed from that with their group and the forum by taking a far more hostile approach. Alas, he was banned during the major purge, but I do hope he's doing better and probably would be less hostile without being here on the forum.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Earl Grey

[Iliketurtles]

44 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Please not the following terms

 

"I am starting" : I say this because you did not seem aware John was instructing several westerners long after Jim said he was not.

"Dont understand the truth" : Based on what you said that you believe it was because of a spirit that John stopped teaching Jim/Kostas.

 

Its not my agenda to believe this so much as I cannot really infer anything else based on you not wanting to discuss it further...If you believe this forum to be such a toxic place...why bother being a member here? and why bother posting in these topics?

 

You can have a perfectly reasonable rational talk here....No need for alternative forums, book quotes and preformed responses ad infinitum and so forth

 

People claim lots of things Shadow, don't always assume they are being truthful.

 

I believe that is what John told Jim, and I believe that John probably believed that.  

 

It remains to be seen if John's visit by May Yung Chen was a dream, or if he was being untruthful. 

 

I can only state what his letters to Jim say.

 

If you want to continue this further, please do it in the appropriate environment for it the buns forum is that environment.

 

 

[Iliketurtles]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

I think the main draw is being able to insult each other on the buns site, but based on the way things are going here, I don't think it will get very far since there's no reciprocal good faith argument, and I predict it will go the same as it does here historically, just with more insults and four-letter words.

 

Short of everyone going there to talk (and people won't), this thread will just sizzle and burn out after a few jabs and futile attempts to have a conversation with a reluctant representative of the SOMADs (preferred name for western students of Mo Pai, Students of McMillan Andreas Dervenis).

 

I do have to credit Turtles/Venus with being far more engaging in other topics though, and like his amicability as much as I did Mr. Coffee before. Too bad MegaMind ruined whatever good will could have developed from that.

 

To be clear, even with no insults whatsoever the administration here removes people they see as being problematic,  continuing a discussion past some arbitrary number of pages constitutes a problem in their eyes. 

 

It's a no win situation.

 

The buns forum allows for discussions that go for 100, or 1,000 pages even.

 

That is why I suggested mo pai discussion occur where it can occur, because it cannot here insults or not.

 

Also SOMAD is not a preferred name for any mo pai group that I am aware of, nor is western mo pai.

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

Just now, Iliketurtles said:

 

To be clear, even with no insults whatsoever the administration here removes people they see as being problematic,  continuing a discussion past some arbitrary number of pages constitutes a problem in their eyes. 

 

It's a no win situation.

 

The buns forum allows for discussions that go for 100, or 1,000 pages even.

 

That is why I suggested mo pai discussion occur where it can occur, because it cannot here insults or not.

 

Also SOMAD is not a preferred name for any mo pai group that I am aware of, nor is western mo pai.

 

 

 

 

SOMAD was the term someone used on Original Dao a year or so ago and said that was what the More Pie Guy and his group are said to have preferred over WMPs. I do not know details, I only know this from second hand information from a couple people who are members there, so if you're in the know as an ad hoc representative of your group, then we go by what you say.

 

I can't find the post as I don't use OD....and apparently have been preemptively banned from even joining.

 

...Not that I ever cared to join, anyway.

 

[Iliketurtles]

Just now, Earl Grey said:

 

SOMAD was the term someone used on Original Dao a year or so ago and said that was what the More Pie Guy and his group are said to have preferred over WMPs. I do not know details, I only know this from second hand information from a couple people who are members there, so if you're in the know as an ad hoc representative of your group, then we go by what you say.

 

I can't find the post as I don't use OD....and apparently have been preemptively banned from even joining.

 

...Not that I ever cared to join, anyway.

 

 

Just FYI, Scott the owner of the forum demanded a new name to call their group by. 

 

He would not allow them to even be called western mo pai, which they see as an insult, let alone mo pai.

 

They were told to pick a name or be banned. 

 

They picked the acronym SOMAD, and then were immediately banned after doing so.

 

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Just FYI, Scott the owner of the forum demanded a new name to call their group by. 

 

He would not allow them to even be called western mo pai, which they see as an insult, let alone mo pai.

 

They were told to pick a name or be banned. 

 

They picked the acronym SOMAD, and then were immediately banned after doing so.

 

 

I only ever saw one thread that went on for 50 pages before it was shut, and I didn't have time to read through it (or interest).

 

Well, hope your rabbit hole at the Buns is comfortable (and that you all use it for more than just Mo Pai debates).

[Shadow_self]

23 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I think the main draw is being able to insult each other on the buns site, but based on the way things are going here, I don't think it will get very far since there's no reciprocal good faith argument, and I predict it will go the same as it does here historically, just with more insults and four-letter words.

 

Short of everyone going there to talk (and people won't), this thread will just sizzle and burn out after a few jabs and futile attempts to have a conversation with a reluctant representative of the SOMADs (preferred name for western students of Mo Pai, Students of McMillan Andreas Dervenis).

 @Earl Grey Thanks for pointing out the facts of the matter

 

So @Iliketurtles you'd like me to go there so you can spew insults and fire out copy/paste arguments?

 

No thank you....you can travel that road yourself if you wish...

 

If you don't want to participate, you are most welcome to exit the thread...nobody is forcing you to write anything...though your inability to answer what are essentially good questions says a lot about the apparent knowledge of the situation

[Iliketurtles]

k

[Shadow_self]

51 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

People claim lots of things Shadow, don't always assume they are being truthful.

 

I believe that is what John told Jim, and I believe that John probably believed that.  

 

It remains to be seen if John's visit by May Yung Chen was a dream, or if he was being untruthful. 

 

I can only state what his letters to Jim say.

 

If you want to continue this further, please do it in the appropriate environment for it the buns forum is that environment.

 

 

 

I never said it was a dream.

 

I said that is not what was caused the westerners to get the boot

 

Heres a hint from Kosta's

 

 

Answer: From the very beginning, Sifu John told me that non-Chinese could not be students of the school. At the time, he seemed to waiver from that commitment for personal reasons of his own; perhaps he did not expect that we Westerners would progress so rapidly. When the Magus of Java came out, there was a backlash from the Chinese students; right or wrong, the rules of the school had literally been written down. So we were told that we could not progress beyond a specific level. 

 

So...this might help you start to join the dots....that is straight from the horses mouth...note I underlined the most important term...P.S the story is a lot more complex than that...I have been privy to information regarding this that you are not

 

Still so sure some spirit master was the cause of it?

 

It is odd how you put so much faith in John Chang and his students to accurately portray the situation....yet when you start to put together even the disjointed info that is public...It becomes very apparent that you do not have the truth of the matter (and that is not limited to the lack of western access either)

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Iliketurtles]

53 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I never said it was a dream.

 

I said that is not what was caused the westerners to get the boot

 

Heres a hint from Kosta's

 

 

Answer: From the very beginning, Sifu John told me that non-Chinese could not be students of the school. At the time, he seemed to waiver from that commitment for personal reasons of his own; perhaps he did not expect that we Westerners would progress so rapidly. When the Magus of Java came out, there was a backlash from the Chinese students; right or wrong, the rules of the school had literally been written down. So we were told that we could not progress beyond a specific level. 

 

So...this might help you start to join the dots....that is straight from the horses mouth...note I underlined the most important term...P.S the story is a lot more complex than that...I have been privy to information regarding this that you are not

 

Still so sure some spirit master was the cause of it?

 

It is odd how you put so much faith in John Chang and his students to accurately portray the situation....yet when you start to put together even the disjointed info that is public...It becomes very apparent that you do not have the truth of the matter (and that is not limited to the lack of western access either)

 

 

Shadow as I've explained I can only state what John said in his letters.

 

I personally don't know if what he saw of May Yung Chen was a dream, or if he was being dishonest with Jim or if there's some other explanation.

 

I'd say having letters written from John are about as good as you could probably do so I'll leave it at that and if you'd like to keep arguing about this then please let's do it in a different environment where we won't bother the people here and people don't wind up getting banned when this thread reaches page 185. 

 

Peace out.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

42 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Shadow as I've explained I can only state what John said in his letters.

 

I personally don't know if what he saw of May Yung Chen was a dream, or if he was being dishonest with Jim or if there's some other explanation.

 

I'd say having letters written from John are about as good as you could probably do so I'll leave it at that and if you'd like to keep arguing about this then please let's do it in a different environment where we won't bother the people here and people don't wind up getting banned when this thread reaches page 185. 

 

Peace out.

 

Do you have any evidence at all, that these letters were written by John?

 

The truth of the matter is you are making an assumption that these are Johns words and not someone else's. Take a look at what I have provided you with..they are Kostas actual words....and they hint to the truth of the matter far more than a few pieces of paper which you cannot link to a source.

 

And like I said im privy to this...so I can assure you unlike what you are saying I know my information ( and I don't mean Kostas words) is coming from the source..funny how Kostas words gel with said source

 

It is not that westerners were banned from Mo Pai based on geography or genetics...that is a gross distortion of the situation..And thats not the only matter....There is a somewhat limited understanding of John as well....because all was not as it is seemed there either....but like you said..you didnt know if Jim was lied to there...nor do you know if he was told lies regarding other matters either

Edited March 7, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Iliketurtles]

Keep in mind that Jim talked on the phone to John quite a lot mind you after he got this letter not just once or twice or three times or four times or five times but like a dozen or more begging him to reconsider and he got the same answer each time he even wrote to John's family begging them to get him to change his mind.

 

As far as I know what John wrote in those letters were his actual thoughts and not someone else's but since you're privy to things that I'm not I guess you're right because you're somebody on the internet who claims to be right and therefore you must be right.

 

Shadow for the 85th time now if you'd like to keep arguing there is a forum that is set up specifically to allow for it the dao buns forum it will allow this.

 

The administration here will not.  You're welcome to go over to the buns forum and I'll be happy to continue this with you but there's not a whole lot more I can say here.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Iliketurtles said:

Keep in mind that Jim talked on the phone to John quite a lot mind you after he got this letter not just once or twice or three times or four times or five times but like a dozen or more begging him to reconsider and he got the same answer each time he even wrote to John's family begging them to get him to change his mind.

 

As far as I know what John wrote in those letters were his actual thoughts and not someone else's but since you're privy to things that I'm not I guess you're right because you're somebody on the internet who claims to be right and therefore you must be right.

 

Shadow for the 85th time now if you'd like to keep arguing there is a forum that is set up specifically to allow for it the dao buns forum it will allow this.

 

The administration here will not.  You're welcome to go over to the buns forum and I'll be happy to continue this with you but there's not a whole lot more I can say here.

 

Yes and???  Jim went to John after this i know the story...I also know the truth of the matter...Anyway I didn't ask you what he did...I asked you if you had proof John wrote that letter? The answer is he didn't because JC was not an avid English speaker.

 

This has nothing to do with who I am or my source...Kostas words are there for you...In plain English. It was just by chance I found them. But that is the truth of the matter. Whether it was Jim or John or a translator or all three who lied...The westerners were asked to leave because of the underlined reason, and a few more...but that was the main one. Funny how you guys spend a decade quoting the magus of Java like scripture, but you are willing to gloss over that.

 

Is there something wrong with your comprehension ability? How many times do you need to be told I will not go over to your echo chamber....but you are welcome to go over and talk to yourself. Note the following...I did not address you....you commented on something I said....and so forth...

 

You can leave this discussion any time you wish...but stop trolling please

Edited March 7, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Iliketurtles]

Jim receive letters from John stating what I talked about earlier Jim discussed it with John on the phone not just once but probably a dozen times sorry I can't help you May Yung Chen won't allow it is the answer.

 

Unfortunately Jim did not record these conversations with John on the phone so I don't have any quote unquote proof other than the letters but even if I did have voice recordings I'm sure you might claim they were deep fakes and they don't really prove anything or it was somebody impersonating John's voice or what have you because it seems that you can come up with an infinite number of reasons why nothing proves anything.

 

 

[Iliketurtles]

Anyway let's please move this over to the buns forum where it won't create problems here if you wish to continue this.