mopaineikung.com is it legit?

[Shadow_self]

12 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

Jim receive letters from John stating what I talked about earlier Jim discussed it with John on the phone not just once but probably a dozen times sorry I can't help you May Yung Chen won't allow it is the answer.

 

Unfortunately Jim did not record these conversations with John on the phone so I don't have any quote unquote proof other than the letters but even if I did have voice recordings I'm sure you might claim they were deep fakes and they don't really prove anything or it was somebody impersonating John's voice or what have you because it seems that you can come up with an infinite number of reasons why nothing proves anything.

 

 

 

So Kostas is a liar then?

 

Oh im sure he didn't...Nor do I care really...

 

I just asked you because for a group that does nothing but claim about how evidence is important..you sure do tend to overlook that principle when it suits your narrative. But I suppose you did mention earlier you were biased so...that probably explains the mental leaps

[Iliketurtles]

Shadow I have no clue who is lying and who is telling the truth because I wasn't there to see what happened myself first hand.

 

The Bible says that Jesus walked on water and healed the blind and turned water into wine and maybe he did heck I don't know but I wasn't there to confirm it so I can't tell you one way or the other.

 

What I do know is that Jim received letters from John and John said that he was removed as head of the school and couldn't teach anyone anymore because he broke his oath to not teach westerners and the person who removed him was May Yung Chen. I also know that Jim called him about a dozen times begging and pleading for him to reconsider and was told the same thing each time he called him. 

 

So yes someone is lying I don't know if it's Jim I don't know if it's John I don't know if it's Kosta I don't know if it's everybody I'm only telling you what I know and that's what the letters say does that make sense?

 

In my opinion this exchange is getting to the point of absurdity and I'm certain that other people here are going to start complaining about it and then the administration's going to ban me because I'm exchanging words with you even though it's polite right so when this reaches page 85 or whatever I won't be here anymore and you win.

 

If you want to continue this exchange let's please do it somewhere in an environment that will allow for it because that environment is not this forum the buns forum is.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 @Earl Grey Thanks for pointing out the facts of the matter

 

So @Iliketurtles you'd like me to go there so you can spew insults and fire out copy/paste arguments?

 

No thank you....you can travel that road yourself if you wish...

 

If you don't want to participate, you are most welcome to exit the thread...nobody is forcing you to write anything...though your inability to answer what are essentially good questions says a lot about the apparent knowledge of the situation

There’s already a thread dedicated to you there!

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Answer: From the very beginning, Sifu John told me that non-Chinese could not be students of the school. At the time, he seemed to waiver from that commitment for personal reasons of his own; perhaps he did not expect that we Westerners would progress so rapidly. When the Magus of Java came out, there was a backlash from the Chinese students; right or wrong, the rules of the school had literally been written down. So we were told that we could not progress beyond a specific level. 

Now I can honestly believe that there was a rule allowing anyone non Chinese to join. If we look at it in the context of Indonesia, Chinese Indonesians have been heavily persecuted and discriminated against for centuries by the other ethnic groups. I’m not sure if a lot of silat, ilmu tenaga dalam or kebatinan groups don’t allow Chinese Indonesians to join but I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

It could be the case that when Jim, Kostas and co came to Pak John, he might have seen a potential loophole in allowing them to join because the rule was always meant to apply to non-Chinese Indonesians, not people from a land far away with no negative history towards Chinese Indonesians. So Pak John could have given them a chance due to no bad blood between their ethnicities. Unfortunately some of these westerners brought shame and trouble to Mo Pai and Pak John in multiple ways so they had to be cracked down on, and poor Pak John got the blame for letting them in.

All speculation of course but to me this feels like the most logical outcome.

 

[Shadow_self]

50 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

So yes someone is lying I don't know if it's Jim I don't know if it's John I don't know if it's Kosta I don't know if it's everybody

 

Now that you have arrived at that conclusion, that theres lies being told, I think theres little left to say

 

Remember your initial entry to this was about the Pure Blood Chinese requirement...(which was why I posted the link to Edwards post)

 

Funny enough, he found John by advertising in newspapers....fortunately enough, heres a link to someone who copied a bit from the Jawa Pos newspaper

 

https://gusblerogarden.wordpress.com/tag/edward-richards/

 

Theres two newspaper articles...one reporting his search, and the other reporting that he had found him. It would make little sense for him to lie about it

 

Then when you mentioned John was the one who claimed a spirit was responsible for his decision (which was why I posted Kostas words)

 

You dont need to worry about getting banned. Im not trying to "win" anything, actually all I am doing is pointing you in the direction of something I think you might not be aware of

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Now I can honestly believe that there was a rule allowing anyone non Chinese to join. If we look at it in the context of Indonesia, Chinese Indonesians have been heavily persecuted and discriminated against for centuries by the other ethnic groups. I’m not sure if a lot of silat, ilmu tenaga dalam or kebatinan groups don’t allow Chinese Indonesians to join but I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

It could be the case that when Jim, Kostas and co came to Pak John, he might have seen a potential loophole in allowing them to join because the rule was always meant to apply to non-Chinese Indonesians, not people from a land far away with no negative history towards Chinese Indonesians. So Pak John could have given them a chance due to no bad blood between their ethnicities. Unfortunately some of these westerners brought shame and trouble to Mo Pai and Pak John in multiple ways so they had to be cracked down on, and poor Pak John got the blame for letting them in.

All speculation of course but to me this feels like the most logical outcome.

 

 

Amongst other things...

 

It is common for schools not to admit those of other ethnicities...In fact, someone I know was initiated and booted for no reason other than their nationality...and it was down to the exact same thing I have underlined in Kostas posts....Disgruntled students and politics (amongst other things). In terms of the case I am talking about, there was no prior cause....

 

However in the case of the Mo Pai there  were some antecedents..and following that, a decision was made, and along with that several distortions of the reasoning...for multiple reasons....It is important to remember the role that "optics" play in Asian culture.

[Earl Grey]

50 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Now I can honestly believe that there was a rule allowing anyone non Chinese to join. If we look at it in the context of Indonesia, Chinese Indonesians have been heavily persecuted and discriminated against for centuries by the other ethnic groups. I’m not sure if a lot of silat, ilmu tenaga dalam or kebatinan groups don’t allow Chinese Indonesians to join but I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

It could be the case that when Jim, Kostas and co came to Pak John, he might have seen a potential loophole in allowing them to join because the rule was always meant to apply to non-Chinese Indonesians, not people from a land far away with no negative history towards Chinese Indonesians. So Pak John could have given them a chance due to no bad blood between their ethnicities. Unfortunately some of these westerners brought shame and trouble to Mo Pai and Pak John in multiple ways so they had to be cracked down on, and poor Pak John got the blame for letting them in.

All speculation of course but to me this feels like the most logical outcome.

 

 

Fun fact: I know one variation, Kuntao Silat, a Chinese-Indonesian variation, is banned from being taught in at least Indonesia and Singapore, possibly Malaysia.

[Iliketurtles]

58 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Now that you have arrived at that conclusion, that theres lies being told, I think theres little left to say

 

Remember your initial entry to this was about the Pure Blood Chinese requirement...(which was why I posted the link to Edwards post)

 

Funny enough, he found John by advertising in newspapers....fortunately enough, heres a link to someone who copied a bit from the Jawa Pos newspaper

 

https://gusblerogarden.wordpress.com/tag/edward-richards/

 

Theres two newspaper articles...one reporting his search, and the other reporting that he had found him. It would make little sense for him to lie about it

 

Then when you mentioned John was the one who claimed a spirit was responsible for his decision (which was why I posted Kostas words)

 

You dont need to worry about getting banned. Im not trying to "win" anything, actually all I am doing is pointing you in the direction of something I think you might not be aware of

 

Shadow again all I know is what the letters to Jim from John say.

 

Hey who knows maybe Jim doctored these letters and made them himself to really mess with everybody's head after he died.

 

There's a trillion different things you could concoct to come up with conspiracy type theories behind why and how they're not true.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Iliketurtles]

Anyway if this needs to continue it needs to continue in an environment that allows for it.  The buns forum is such an environment this forum is not.

[Shadow_self]

25 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Shadow again all I know is what the letters to Jim from John say.

 

Hey who knows maybe Jim doctored these letters and made them himself to really mess with everybody's head after he died.

 

There's a trillion different things you could concoct to come up with conspiracy type theories behind why and how they're not true.

 

 

 

Im not concocting anything at all...In fact I used independent sources to bolster what Im saying.because I know that you'll tell me im some stranger on the internet who just wants to attack your group or whatever the narrative might be

 

In reality though, thats not the case at all...Im just correcting errors that seem to have gained traction over time

[Iliketurtles]

K

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Iliketurtles]

[Iliketurtles]

[Iliketurtles]

I prefer this over some random WordPress blog though you're certainly free to have a difference of opinion.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

 

36 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Thank you for posting this. See, we can have an actual discussion about Mo Pai here! This letter seems to line up with what Pak John says in The Magus of Java about being concerned that the knowledge might disappear.

[Uncle Fester]

Honestly if a group or individual doesn't want a continued public presence, for whatever stated reason true or false, why disrespect that and do the whole post-mortem TMZ meets Blue's Clues on a public forum? What is gained from it?

Let the man rest in peace.

 

 

[Shadow_self]

7 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

I prefer this over some random WordPress blog though you're certainly free to have a difference of opinion.

 

Oh Im not denying Jim got a letter...Why create strawman arguments?

 

Im asking whether you have evidence.

 

#1 That those are johns verbatim words

#2 That the story of the spirit is true

 

The answer is you believe it to be true, probably because of the predisposition to bias mentioned earlier...and beliefs do not necessarily equate to reality.

 

The fact of the matter is as Kostas laid it out...it was a very political thing...but attaching a metaphysical element to it makes it much easier to diffuse responsibility, avoid having to elaborate and sidestep further conflict

 

Please note almost all schools have a predisposition culturally...this might be waived, as was the case...but the removal of this waiver was not caused by ancient rules set down..You would do well to objectively reflect on the following (heres just a few examples)

 

#1 The result of the publication of the Magus Of Java

#2 The conduct of one, David Verdesi

#3 Jim's reaction to be being told he couldn't be instructed further

#4 And here's a BIG one...The implications of attempting to get these things studied scientifically

#5 How all of that affected John himself

 

I mentioned just a few things there....there is a lot more to this story...some of which I am not at liberty to write here, or in any public forum

 

You dont have to respond to that, if you dont want to.. but I suggest you objectively reflect on the above in light of a sect that was generally operating below the radar, and held within it secrets that could potentially shatter the modern knowledge base

 

[Iliketurtles]

28 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Oh Im not denying Jim got a letter...Why create strawman arguments?

 

Im asking whether you have evidence.

 

#1 That those are johns verbatim words

#2 That the story of the spirit is true

 

The answer is you believe it to be true, probably because of the predisposition to bias mentioned earlier...and beliefs do not necessarily equate to reality.

 

The fact of the matter is as Kostas laid it out...it was a very political thing...but attaching a metaphysical element to it makes it much easier to diffuse responsibility, avoid having to elaborate and sidestep further conflict

 

Please note almost all schools have a predisposition culturally...this might be waived, as was the case...but the removal of this waiver was not caused by ancient rules set down..You would do well to objectively reflect on the following (heres just a few examples)

 

#1 The result of the publication of the Magus Of Java

#2 The conduct of one, David Verdesi

#3 Jim's reaction to be being told he couldn't be instructed further

#4 And here's a BIG one...The implications of attempting to get these things studied scientifically

#5 How all of that affected John himself

 

I mentioned just a few things there....there is a lot more to this story...some of which I am not at liberty to write here, or in any public forum

 

You dont have to respond to that, if you dont want to.. but I suggest you objectively reflect on the above in light of a sect that was generally operating below the radar, and held within it secrets that could potentially shatter the modern knowledge base

 

 

So Shadow evidence is a funny thing because people who don't accept it just dismiss it as nonsense. 

 

Right now in my life personally my Aunt passed away with a multimillion dollar estate.  She wrote a will in the hospital with 3 witnesses present.  The rest of the family refuses to accept those were her wishes, despite their testimony and the fact it is in her handwriting.  

 

If someone dismisses the evidence and refuses to accept it there really isn't a whole lot that can be done about it. 

 

Do I have video of May Yung Chen's spirit doing a Chidori Version of Sennen Goroshi on John's perineum to keep him in line?

 

No.

 

Do I have video of John telling this story to others?

 

No.

 

What I do have are the letters Jim left behind when he passed, which I believe are what John legitimately wrote to him.

 

This is based off of what Jim told me and others because supposedly he called and begged and pleaded repeatedly and was told the same thing in the letters over and over and over. 

 

If Jim typed these up to mess with our heads, or if John's son was having some fun with Jim I don't know.  

 

I can only say this is what I have.

 

Can we please stop rehashing this?

 

If we can't ,then can we at least continue this on a forum that allows for such "conversations"?

 

The buns forum is that forum, this place not so much.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

5 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

So Shadow evidence is a funny thing because people who don't accept it just dismiss it as nonsense. 

 

Right now in my life personally my Aunt passed away with a multimillion dollar estate.  She wrote a will in the hospital with 3 witnesses present.  The rest of the family refuses to accept those were her wishes, despite their testimony and the fact it is in her handwriting.  

 

If someone dismisses the evidence and refuses to accept it there really isn't a whole lot that can be done about it. 

 

Do I have video of May Yung Chen's spirit doing a Chidori Version of Sennen Goroshi on John's perineum to keep him in line?

 

No.

 

Do I have video of John telling this story to others?

 

No.

 

What I do have are the letters Jim left behind when he passed, which I believe are what John legitimately wrote to him.

 

This is based off of what Jim told me and others because supposedly he called and begged and pleaded repeatedly and was told the same thing in the letters over and over and over. 

 

If Jim typed these up to mess with our heads, or if John's son was having some fun with Jim I don't know.  

 

I can only say this is what I have.

 

I notice the use of the terms, I dont know and I believe a lot

 

Im glad you said that...because, there is evidence to suggest otherwise..

 

I never said John did or didn't do anything...except that he did not write that letter, because he is not an apt English speaker....which you know to be true. I then asked you if you know whether they were verbatim his words, which you dont

 

Let me be direct...

 

You are the one claiming he did...the burden of proof lies with you to substantiate that or admit you dont know. You have admitted you don't know...that's fine

 

Kostas tells a different story ( it is right there for you to read). I take Kostas words with far more weight than I ever would Jim's...a quick scan of Jim's books and past posts on here would tell you exactly why...and illustrate with great effect why I would say that.

 

We dont need to discuss this any further....you've stated your position clearly....and please stop trying to move conversation off the forum...just cease posting if it bothers you.

[Iliketurtles]

17 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I notice the use of the terms, I dont know and I believe a lot

 

Im glad you said that...because, there is evidence to suggest otherwise..

 

I never said John did or didn't do anything...except that he did not write that letter, because he is not an apt English speaker....which you know to be true. I then asked you if you know whether they were verbatim his words, which you dont

 

Let me be direct...

 

You are the one claiming he did...the burden of proof lies with you to substantiate that or admit you dont know. You have admitted you don't know...that's fine

 

Kostas tells a different story ( it is right there for you to read). I take Kostas words with far more weight than I ever would Jim's...a quick scan of Jim's books and past posts on here would tell you exactly why...and illustrate with great effect why I would say that.

 

We dont need to discuss this any further....you've stated your position clearly....and please stop trying to move conversation off the forum...just cease posting if it bothers you.

 

My family also believes there is evidence to suggest otherwise in regards to my aunts last will hand written and witnessed by three people at the hospital. 

 

My assumption is that she actually wrote it, and the people I grew up with are telling the truth but I don't really know because I wasn't there. 

 

Does that make sense?

 

Also John speaks English at about an 6th grade level in his videos, he seems to be able to communicate just fine for basic things. 

 

Of course those could be deep fakes who knows man.

 

I am not claiming anything, I am just presenting what the letters say.

 

I do not know because I was not there.

 

Let's please drop this, and move on, or if you cannot do that let's continue this on the buns forum where it won't continue to create a problem here, and the community there will allow it continue as long as needed without banning people.

 

Ok?

Edited March 7, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

My family also believes there is evidence to suggest otherwise in regards to my aunts last will hand written and witnessed by three people at the hospital. 

 

My assumption is that she actually wrote it, and the people I grew up with are telling the truth but I don't really know because I wasn't there. 

 

Does that make sense?

 

Also John speaks English at about an 6th grade level in his videos, he seems to be able to communicate just fine for basic things. 

 

Of course those could be deep fakes who knows man.

 

I am not claiming anything, only that that is what the letter states.  

 

I do not know because I was not there.

 

Let's please drop this, and move on, or if you cannot do that let's continue this on the buns forum where it won't continue to create a problem here, and the community there will allow it continue as long as needed without banning people.

 

Ok?

 

Kostas words are right there...this is not about what I believe...He stated it quite directly

 

Im not sure what 6th graders you are speaking too, but they certainly don't speak like that.

 

I never said they were deep fakes...I reserve what I think they actually are being honest...but Kostas words are more than enough to get to the matter at hand without elaborating further.

[Iliketurtles]

As far as I know you aren't privy to the non public videos I am talking about, but hey maybe you are.

 

Let's move on, or continue this on the buns forum please.

[Shadow_self]

10 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

As far as I know you aren't privy to the non public videos I am talking about, but hey maybe you are.

 

Let's move on, or continue this on the buns forum please.

 

You did not mention any videos....im not overly interested in videos to be honest...that's been done to death..

 

My information comes from elsewhere...a direct source ( make of that what you will)

 

Then move on, no problem. There's no need to take this conversation any further..its beginning to edge on things Im not willing to speak about now

 

 

[Iliketurtles]

2 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

You did not mention any videos....im not overly interested in videos to be honest...that's been done to death..

 

My information comes from elsewhere...a direct source ( make of that what you will)

 

Then move on, no problem. There's no need to take this conversation any further..its beginning to edge on things Im not willing to speak about now

 

 

 

So my perspective is I trust the videos and letters John left behind over the expertise of a rando on the internet, or wordpress blogs. 

 

Then it's agreed, let's move on. 

[Shadow_self]

4 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

So my perspective is I trust the videos and letters John left behind over the expertise of a rando on the internet, or wordpress blogs. 

 

Then it's agreed, let's move on. 

 

No thats not the case....you are saying you trust Jim's words more than Kostas in reality...because Kostas words are right there for you,

 

The postings on the blogs are copy pastes of newspaper articles from almost 2 decades ago...its up to you if you want to try and find the originals...I could care less whether you do or dont really