mopaineikung.com is it legit?

[Iliketurtles]

21 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Really it isn't and here is why. A teacher does not need you, so the street is moreso one way in that regard. The other major fallacy here is the false dichotomy...IE blind faith vs blind rejection....There is a happy medium here which is curious exploration....Its how must people stumble onto something "real" Ask any person who's found a "real" practice...they probably waded through several bad, or perhaps even nonsensical ones first.

 

If you keep your eyes and ears open you should be able to decipher genuine practice from the false ones. One such example being the YJJ. There are thousands of nonsensical practices and forms out there claiming to be YJJ...but actual YJJ (the thing that leads electrical qi by the way)...is a set of principles embedded into a practice....you'll know when you're doing it whether its real or not because there are clear signs....these are not subtle nor are they imagined.

 

So the reality is that it isn't so much there are no schools out there with real methods...no teachers with skill....your group is unfortunately  placing itself on a pedestal, and demanding something that there is no real incentive nor rational for any teacher to provide you with...does that make sense?

 

Now if they needed you, that would be different...but the fact that they do not....well that is why you find yourself stuck on the eternal hamster wheel of looking for something you cannot find

 

Hmmm...So MPG has amended the goals of the organization now...interesting....let me guess...negative entropy, seeds, husks, trees..and so forth

 

I agree with you, a teacher does not need to prove anything to anyone. 

 

A student also is not required to have faith or accept testimonials. 

 

Lots of people are interested in pursuing Mo Pai for different reasons, I can't speak for all of them. 

 

[Shadow_self]

5 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

I agree with you, a teacher does not need to prove anything to anyone. 

 

A student also is not required to have faith or accept testimonials. 

 

Lots of people are interested in pursuing Mo Pai for different reasons, I can't speak for all of them. 

 

 

Who said anything about faith or testimony....Neither are required to explore something first hand..so why make such a claim?

[Iliketurtles]

 

Teacher and practice hopping is something many people I know have done and never found anything comparable, congratulations if you had better luck.

[Shadow_self]

11 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Teacher and practice hopping is something many people I know have done and never found anything comparable, congratulations if you had better luck.

 

The thing is, there is nothing overly unique about Mo Pai or John....

 

Please understand, respectfully I use the word unique as in "1 OF 1" not as in "1 of a few"

 

The big deal about Yin and Yang fusion initially seemed to be something that was not found in other places...That is of course until you start talking to people and start getting introduced to others...

 

Turns out its just an inner door thing, its present in Longmen Pai  (plus other schools) as well, It just comes later... So not a mo pai exclusive thing...just kept until later...and there's a good reason for it....Nathan Brine spoke about this in a video...and his comments largely reflect much of what I have seen, heard and had explained to me

 

 

You can get tumors from attempting it if you aren't under the supervision of a very high level teacher at this. The chances of failure and serious health problems are basically 100%.

 

You should familiarise yourself with the terms xinggong and minggong...Because there are different teachings and sequencing regards this...You would be well advised to carefully listen to Nathans comments around Xinggong...it is ultimately more the spiritual side of the arts

 

Regards teacher hopping...How many people do you know that were bai shi'd?

[Iliketurtles]

19 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

The thing is, there is nothing overly unique about Mo Pai or John....

 

Please understand, respectfully I use the word unique as in "1 OF 1" not as in "1 of a few"

 

The big deal about Yin and Yang fusion initially seemed to be something that was not found in other places...That is of course until you start talking to people and start getting introduced to others...

 

Turns out its just an inner door thing, its present in Longmen Pai  (plus other schools) as well, It just comes later... So not a mo pai exclusive thing...just kept until later...and there's a good reason for it....Nathan Brine spoke about this in a video...and his comments largely reflect much of what I have seen, heard and had explained to me

 

 

You can get tumors from attempting it if you aren't under the supervision of a very high level teacher at this. The chances of failure and serious health problems are basically 100%.

 

You should familiarise yourself with the terms xinggong and minggong...Because there are different teachings and sequencing regards this...You would be well advised to carefully listen to Nathans comments around Xinggong...it is ultimately more the spiritual side of the arts

 

Regards teacher hopping...How many people do you know that were bai shi'd?

 

I disagree with your assessment.

 

I am not interested in his or your advice, but thanks anyway.

 

[Shadow_self]

4 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

I disagree with your assessment.

 

I am not interested in his or your advice, but thanks anyway.

 

 You are certainly welcome to disagree all you want...but that disagreement is based on a lack of knowledge, experience and information rather than facts...I've seen all the arguments over the years...they all fall down flat

 

When you have met a few people who have either ba shi'd/properly initiated into an authentic lineage and have a lot of experience behind them..maybe then you might have your eyes opened a bit...Until then you are just making assumptions, forming beliefs based on conjecture and unwarranted mental leaps...Not a good approach to life really

 

But feel free to reside in the denial and believe whatever you wish . In the end, it only (sadly) deprives you of experience

[Shadow_self]

16 hours ago, Nungali said:

So , they believe 'consciousness'  survives death   and consciousness in the living is contained within the skull  .....   generated by ... the brain ? 

 

And they dont really need that hole in the head ..... the Phowa practice ensures consciousness survives death, the hole is a symbol of the practice accomplished  ..... and then stick a bit of unsterilised grass down in there .

 

I think I'd rather have a piece of wire up the arse . 

 

....  maybe a lot was  'lost in translation ' .

 

I don't think any esoteric school would believe consciousness to be generated by the brain?

 

Pretty sure the big thing here is sending the consciousness out through the top of the head...and as you mentioned the hole is just a sign of successful practice

 

The grass thing is strange isnt it, then again, much of tradition is weird, and to further confuse matters, weird is context specific 

[Iliketurtles]

13 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 You are certainly welcome to disagree all you want...but that disagreement is based on a lack of knowledge, experience and information rather than facts...I've seen all the arguments over the years...they all fall down flat

 

When you have met a few people who have either ba shi'd/properly initiated into an authentic lineage and have a lot of experience behind them..maybe then you might have your eyes opened a bit...Until then you are just making assumptions, forming beliefs based on conjecture and unwarranted mental leaps...Not a good approach to life really

 

But feel free to reside in the denial and believe whatever you wish . In the end, it only (sadly) deprives you of experience

 

I disagree with your assessment. 

 

 

[Shadow_self]

4 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

I disagree with your assessment. 

 

 

 

No problem. When, or rather If you are ready and willing to share with the community why you disagree...Ill be here ready to discuss the fallacies, cognitive biases and whatnot

[Iliketurtles]

Just now, Shadow_self said:

 

No problem. When, or rather If you are ready and willing to share with the community why you disagree...Ill be here ready to discuss the fallacies, cognitive biases and whatnot

 

Sounds great. 

[Earl Grey]

OMG this thread is still going?

[Nungali]

On 14/03/2022 at 10:51 AM, Earl Grey said:

OMG this thread is still going?

 

 

 

I disagree with your assessment. 

 

[Iliketurtles]

15 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Incomplete information is incomplete information. The medium (and source) is irrelevant.

 

The fact that you believe John and his translator to be beacons of truth illustrates your bias more than anything else.

 

 

One thing I would like to touch on here, yes I am biased.  

 

I am biased because John provided the best evidence that I know of. 

 

I feel that is reasonable to assume John has correct training information, and didn't lie to his students.

 

Then again as you said, I am biased.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

55 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

 

One thing I would like to touch on here, yes I am biased.  

 

I am biased because John provided the best evidence that I know of. 

 

I feel that is reasonable to assume John has correct training information, and didn't lie to his students.

 

Then again as you said, I am biased.

 

I am biased because John provided the best evidence that I know of. 

 

I'm aware...thats fine

 

I feel that is reasonable to assume John has correct training information

 

Sure

 

Didn't lie to his students.

 

Here is where we diverge.Lie, omit, fail to mention...there's a lot of roads we could travel down here...and the cultural boundaries are grey...so it is a messy one

 

You are free to believe whatever you choose though. I am certainly not going to try and change your mind

[Iliketurtles]

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I am biased because John provided the best evidence that I know of. 

 

I'm aware...thats fine

 

I feel that is reasonable to assume John has correct training information

 

Sure

 

Didn't lie to his students.

 

Here is where we diverge.Lie, omit, fail to mention...there's a lot of roads we could travel down here...and the cultural boundaries are grey...so it is a messy one

 

You are free to believe whatever you choose though. I am certainly not going to try and change your mind

 

Some of the videos I reference were recorded for Indonesian students, no western student were present.

 

 

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Some of the videos I reference were recorded for Indonesian students, no western student were present.

 

 

 

and yet a translator was? Would you care to explain that please

[RobB]

Could you all step up the pace a bit please? By my reckoning we've got at least <fx: checks notes> 92 pages of this to get through before we can go home.

[Iliketurtles]

58 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

and yet a translator was? Would you care to explain that please

 

A translator is capable of translating what is said on video.

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

8 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

A translator is capable was translating what is said on video.

 

What I am asking is, what is the need to translate it, if it was not for English speaking/Western students

[Iliketurtles]

1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

What I am asking is, what is the need to translate it, if it was not for English speaking/Western students

 

Unfortunately I don't speak Javanese or Indonesian.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Iliketurtles

[Shadow_self]

4 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Unfortunately I don't speak Javanese or Indonesian.

 

Right but you mentioned this was not for Westerners....however if that were true...then there was no requirement to translate correct?

 

Also lets continue the discussion from the other thread here...to be tidy

 

So, are you saying that there is only a method...I.E go do (A) (B) (C), with no explanation given as to the energetic mechanisms?

[Iliketurtles]

What I was trying to explain is that grounding during training is a hard requirement and not optional.

 

If this is incorrect information I couldn't say, I only know what was taught.

 

 

[Shadow_self]

21 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

What I was trying to explain is that grounding during training is a hard requirement and not optional.

 

If this is incorrect information I couldn't say, I only know what was taught.

 

 

That is not what I asked you though...Would you be so kind as to answer my questions ?

 

We can talk about "grounding" then if you like

[Iliketurtles]

Unfortunately I am not comfortable discussing that.

[Shadow_self]

4 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

Unfortunately I am not comfortable discussing that.

Discussing what exactly?

 

If it was the translation thing, Here were your words

 

Quote

Well there were two independent translators who speak Indonesian, Javanese and English who transcribed what was being spoken, and then provided a translation of it in English. I feel confident in what was said. If what was said was accurate is up for debate however.

 

 

Quote

Some of the videos I reference were recorded for Indonesian students, no western student were present.

 

Im pretty sure you are mistaken. Indonesian students would not need a video translated.

 

Therefore logic would dictate that video is for English speaking audience (AKA Westerners), correct?

 

If it is the other question, about instructions vs explanation...you already answered that

Quote

Training information only no metaphysics.

 

You said that there was no explanation, only instructions

 

In Asia that's pretty common....it is often how non-initiates are treated...the explanation is usually one of the key differences, along with sometimes some minor tweaks to a practice to make it "work"

 

Why are you so uncomfortable discussing statements you already made?