Zhan Zhuang - Yin or Yang?

[Lukks]

This time I have a quick question Zhan Zhuang is a Yin practice or a Yang practice? 

 

I'm asking because I want to start a routine with a Yin practice and a Yang practice to have balance, but I don't know in which of them Zhan Zhuang stands, because in the outside it is a Yin practice but in the inside it generates movement so this a Yang characteristic.

 

Thanks in advance

[Lukks]

Ok, so I went looking for the answer and found it in the book ''A compreensive guide to Daoist Nei Gong'' by Damo Mitchell, which says Zhan Zhuang is a more yin practice.

 

So instead of deleting the post I will just leave it here since it can help other people with the same question, and the discussion will be open if someone discords on that or if someone wants to add more info.

Edited March 4, 2022 by almaxy

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, almaxy said:

Ok, so I went looking for the answer and found it in the book ''A compreensive guide to Daoist Nei Gong'' by Damo Mitchell, which says Zhan Zhuang is a YIN practice.

 

So instead of deleting the post I will just leave it here since it can help other people with the same question, and the discussion will be open if someone discords on that or if someone wants to add more info.

 

FYI Zhan Zhuang is not practiced the same across systems.

 

Saying it's a Yin practice alone will get people in my own lineage to think whomever says that is silly, especially doing so with definitive and absolute certainty.

[Lukks]

Welp, that's the reason why I didn't delete de post when I found my answer, because maybe there are people with a different opinion.

 

BTW I'm not the one saying ZZ is Yin, as I said above, I just looked for the information and I found it inside one of Damo's books, at least that's what I understood. I'm still learning.

Edited March 4, 2022 by almaxy

[Taomeow]

A practice can only be "more yin" or "more yang" compared to some other practice.  So the question might be, is ZZ more yin compared to the sitting meditation, taijiquan, karate, hockey, chanting mantras, taking a nap, etc. 

 

When such comparisons are made you may notice that ZZ is more yin than taijiquan, more yang than the sitting meditation, etc.  

[dwai]

Standing in wuji posture is yin-yang balanced. ZZ in other postures is a combination of different proportions of yin-yang. What is the mental state/focus? That could also determine whether the practice is more yin or more yang.

 

What we do at the beginner level in Temple-style Taiji - where we stand and let gravity do its trick, just releasing naturally, without forcing it. Then focus changes depending on what we're trying to achieve -- sometimes standing still doesn't mean more "yin" because as the body is still, the energy is being moved using mind-intent. Sometimes moving doesn't mean more "yang", because the body is following the flow of the energy without any mental efforts.  

 

To echo @Taomeow - you can't have yin without yang, and you can't have yang without yin. They go together and complement each other. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by dwai

[freeform]

1 hour ago, almaxy said:

BTW I'm not the one saying ZZ is Yin, as I said above, I just looked for the information and I found it inside one of Damo's books. I'm still learning.

I’d be surprised if Damo’s book literally says “ZZ is Yin” - that’s a pretty nonsensical thing to say.

 

Would be better if you pasted the specific sentence he used.

 

[Piyadasi]

I don't know what is exactly mentioned in the book, but in terms of Wuji - and the 4 poles that emerge from it, Zhan Zhuang is talked about as Yang within Yin (Xiao Yin), seeking Movement within Stillness, Yin on the outside Yang on the inside.

(more here:

timestamped pretty much where he talks about ZZ type work.)

[Lukks]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

I’d be surprised if Damo’s book literally says “ZZ is Yin” - that’s a pretty nonsensical thing to say.

 

Would be better if you pasted the specific sentence he used.

 

Thanks for the replies! According to what @Taomeow and @dwai posted, I probably misunderstood it from being MORE yin to ONLY yin.

I will find the sentence and paste it here🙂

[Geof Nanto]

50 minutes ago, almaxy said:

Thanks for the replies! According to what @Taomeow and @dwai posted, I probably misunderstood it from being MORE yin to ONLY yin.

I will find the sentence and paste it here🙂

 

From Damo Mitchell's Facebook titled Common Errors in Practice:

 

Quote

Always Standing (Too Yin)
A very common error is within schools that over focus on standing postures and static exercises; an example of this would be many Zhan Zhuang (站桩) schools who solely do this type of static exercise. Whilst there is nothing inherently wrong with static Qi Gong postures, they are the place where most of the internal work is done, they should not be practiced on their own. There should also be moving exercises that enable the Qi to flow and the body to relax whilst in a more dynamic state. Sadly, the vast majority of solely-standing practitioners that I have met are very stiff, lack energetic movement within the body and are essentially making themselves too ‘Yin’.

 

Yin and yang are used in so many different ways in Daoism you really need the full context to understand what is being referred to. In the above context yin obviously refers to something undesirable.  In a different context yin may refer to something desirable. Here's a quotation from Damo's White Moon on the Mountain Peak:

 

Quote

 

Humility

Humility is an extremely Yin state of being. To be able to place yourself behind others is a difficult thing but important in Daoism. Energetically, this serves to create a powerful vacuum within your Xing, which draws spiritual learning towards you. When humbling yourself before a trusted teacher (or a deity in religious Daoism), you are manifesting the potential to draw teachings into the centre of your being. This is why so many practitioners in the past have had deep spiritual experiences when prostrating themselves before statues of Daoist immortals. In Daoist teachings, it should be one of your aims to be humble beneath the entire universe and understand humility before all beings. In this way the power of Dao, which flows through the cosmos, can enter you and make every aspect of life your teacher.

 

 

 

 

[Lukks]

39 minutes ago, Yueya said:

 

From Damo Mitchell's Facebook titled Common Errors in Practice:

 

Always Standing (Too Yin)
A very common error is within schools that over focus on standing postures and static exercises; an example of this would be many Zhan Zhuang (站桩) schools who solely do this type of static exercise. Whilst there is nothing inherently wrong with static Qi Gong postures, they are the place where most of the internal work is done, they should not be practiced on their own. There should also be moving exercises that enable the Qi to flow and the body to relax whilst in a more dynamic state. Sadly, the vast majority of solely-standing practitioners that I have met are very stiff, lack energetic movement within the body and are essentially making themselves too ‘Yin’.

 

 

yay it's exactly this one, I just got home but you found it first, thanks haha

Edited March 4, 2022 by almaxy

[Earl Grey]

I repeat my point that just standing is not the same across systems.

 

My own system has internal movement while appearing still, for example, though yes, we also have movement practices since standing is only the beginning of power and skill development.

[Meroe]

Peak yin into into rising yang with practice.

[awaken]

站樁跟入定態相比當然是陽，在修煉的世界當中，意識存在就是陽

 

除非你把站樁跟打籃球相比，那當然站樁是陰，但是那是不對的比喻，因為你站樁是為了修煉，在修煉的世界當中，站樁只是剛開始的部分，所以是陽

 

說站樁是陰的老師，本身必定沒有入定的經驗，才會有這種說詞