Zhan Zhuang - Grounded or Ungrounded

[awaken]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

 

The best part is that I don't need to block...I just ignore even though I can read Chinese, but I'm not going to even talk with someone who expects me to Google translate her posts without posting in both languages since she can use translate alongside her original Chinese too.

 

A general rule I have for talking with others: don't make me cross extra bridges to understand you, meet me halfway or don't expect me to join an invitation. I already have to deal with language and cultural barriers with some teachers, and she ain't my teacher.

 

我如果能夠很流暢的使用英文，我不會不用的，我也沒強迫你要使用google翻譯，不用把自己當成語文受害者

[awaken]

陽極生陰，陰極生陽，是修煉當中非常重要的一個核心價值

 

修煉絕對不是堆積陽氣，而是在陰陽反覆當中，達到煉化的目標

 

而這個煉化，就是以陽練陰，將陰氣化解掉

 

而樓主很明顯的，是一個初學者，所以不知道什麼是陰陽

 

但是給建議的人，如果對於修煉有一定的程度，對於陰陽，應該是要懂的

 

看到一個初學者氣機發動了，就應該要給予鼓勵，而不是恐嚇他沒救了，或者要找中醫，這是非常不負責任的說法

 

各位要知道，一個有天份的修煉者是非常難得的，當我們看到一個有天份的修煉者的產生，我們要去引導他認識陰陽反覆的重要

 

讓他看到練陽不練陰，陰陽反覆沒有練透，所造成的身心不適

 

要讓他知道，陰陽反覆的練透，是需要一定的時間，對一個初學者來說，兩小時是必要的

 

而且不應該用『壓抑』『控制』去干預氣機

 

一個有經驗的修煉者，這些都是一定要了解的『基本知識』

 

但是你們兩位，給的建議，卻充滿了恐嚇，卻沒有給初學者一個正確的方向

 

所以我看不下去

 

兩位認為我傲慢，那我也沒辦法，同樣的，我認為兩位胡說八道，正在傷害一個有潛力的修行者，對我來說，被誤會為傲慢是小事，那位有潛力的修行者被兩位誤導，才是更嚴重的事情

 

兩位想要去站長那裡投訴我，沒關係，去投訴吧，站長是一個看得懂中文的人，相信他會知道我的苦心的

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by awaken

[Earl Grey]

WoW!!!!!

[freeform]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

someone who expects me to Google translate her posts without posting in both languages since she can use translate alongside her original Chinese too

I gave her the benefit of the doubt in this regard and started translating her posts…

 

Saw that most posts were rude and disrespectful - no matter who she talked to… gave her the benefit of the doubt - hoping to see that it’s just a front with a kind nature beneath…

 

But no - all I’ve seen is rudeness, arrogance and disrespect. 
 

Now I know - so don’t feel inclined to be inclusive in conversations. Saves me some time and effort  

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, awaken said:

 

 

Wouldn't you be embarrassed for telling so many lies?

 

You arbitrarily comment on things you don't understand and give some wrong advice, this is harming people, not helping people

 

 

 

 

If there is one person on this forum who gives good advice to people it is @freeform . He's one of very few people who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

You are seriously mistaken calling him a liar...

 

In fact, you telling someone to go and do two hours of zifagong without having actually examined them, understanding the history, nature and conditions which led to the problem is extremely problematic. 

 

Your attachment to the process (Which is in itself a sign of something) is clouding your judgement...and after 30 years...you should really be beyond such emotional reactivity

[awaken]

7 minutes ago, freeform said:

I gave her the benefit of the doubt in this regard and started translating her posts…

 

Saw that most posts were rude and disrespectful - no matter who she talked to… gave her the benefit of the doubt - hoping to see that it’s just a front with a kind nature beneath…

 

But no - all I’ve seen is rudeness, arrogance and disrespect. 
 

Now I know - so don’t feel inclined to be inclusive in conversations. Saves me some time and effort  

 

 

你的自我感被傷害到了，就說對方傲慢粗魯，你卻不曾懷疑自己的建議是有問題的，對於一個初學者，你給了錯誤的方向，關於此點，你完全沒有任何思考反省

 

從你的帖子可以看得出來你很熱心，但是熱心必須是給一個正確的方向，如果熱心給出來的方向是錯誤的，豈不是害了對方？

 

 

[awaken]

Just now, Shadow_self said:

If there is one person on this forum who gives good advice to people it is @freeform . He's one of very few people who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

You are seriously mistaken calling him a liar...

 

In fact, you telling someone to go and do two hours of zifagong without having actually examined them, understanding the history, nature and conditions which led to the problem is extremely problematic. 

 

Your attachment to the process (Which is in itself a sign of something) is clouding your judgement...and after 30 years...you should really be beyond such emotional reactivity

 

 

我認識很多人，都是這樣練自發功的，沒有什麼問題，問題就出在那些亂給建議的人，帶著一種無知的恐懼，在恐嚇初學者

 

freeform的善心我知道，但是希望freeform能夠練深一點，起碼要有烏肝兔髓四禪八定的一些程度，否則講出來的東西，是很容易誤導新人的

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, awaken said:

 

 

I know many people who practice spontaneous qigong like this. There is no problem. The problem lies in those who give advice indiscriminately, with a kind of ignorant fear, intimidating beginners.

 

I know the kindness of freeform, but I hope that freeform can practice a little deeper, at least to some extent of the four meditations of black liver and rabbit marrow, otherwise it will easily mislead newcomers.

 

Like what?

 

And what of the people who have serious problems with it? Stick Kunlun into the search bar...and enjoy the reading. This is not a one size fits all thing

 

Telling someone it is perfectly acceptable to practice internally after a potential problem arises...that is the issue here. If a person hurt their leg....would you tell them it is perfectly acceptable to go running without even having  a look at it?

 

Like I said before...there was nobody here telling a person to never practice again...they told the person to stop immediately,  go and get checked out by a TCM doctor, and find a good competent teacher before resuming anything

 

And you think this is bad advice worthy of such an emotional outburst why exactly?

Edited March 15, 2022 by Shadow_self

[awaken]

7 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Like what?

 

And what of the people who have serious problems with it? Stick Kunlun into the search bar...and enjoy the reading. This is not a one size fits all thing

 

Telling someone it is perfectly acceptable to practice internally after a potential problem arises...that is the issue here. If a person hurt their leg....would you tell them it is perfectly acceptable to go running without even having  a look at it?

 

Like I said before...there was nobody here telling a person to never practice again...they told the person to stop immediately,  go and get checked out by a TCM doctor, and find a good competent teacher before resuming anything

 

And you think this is bad advice worthy of such an emotional outburst why exactly?

 

第一，你不該隨便指控別人情緒爆發，我只是打字比較快而已

第二，他不是腿受傷，他是氣沒練透，你既然看得懂我寫的，你也應該要看到關鍵字，『練透』

第三，解決沒有練透所造成的氣機上浮，最好的辦法就是練透

第四，如果你不知道這一點，你就不應該隨便說對方是腿受傷，事實上，他的腿沒有受傷，他的身體也沒受傷，他就是氣堵在上半身，那是因為他壓抑了氣

第五，我研究中醫很多年了，我可以跟你保證，中醫治不了氣功的氣上浮，頂多就是給你開一帖，柴胡龍骨牡蠣湯，讓你降氣而已

第六，我認為這位初學者很有天份，但是被誤導了，而且充滿了恐懼，他需要的，不是更多的恐懼，而是正確訊息的引導

第七，我沒有情緒爆發，但是我有感覺到你們之中有人情緒爆發，各位可能不知道，在某些情況下，我可以收到對方的情緒氣機

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

 

 

為了預防有更多諸如此類的初學者被誤導，我認為我的名譽是小事情，正確的引導陰陽反覆才是大事

 

練功非常忌諱練陽不練陰，或者練陰不練陽，孤陽不長，獨陰不生，這是每一個練道家修煉的人應該都要耳熟能詳的原理原則

 

但是原理原則是一回事，真正遇到事情，又有幾個人能搞懂怎麼回事？

 

陰陽反覆是非常非常重要的原則，希望這個初學者的站樁帖，能讓大家看到，一個初學者在沒有人引導的情況下，練了有陽氣產生，卻因為不懂陰陽，產生恐懼的壓抑行為，而一些自以為自己很懂的旁人，在旁邊敲鑼打鼓，增加他更多的恐懼，叫他不要練，卻沒有引導他正確的陰陽原則

 

當然有一個傻瓜，笨蛋，就是我，我跳出來說這樣練不對，各位給的辦法也不對，然後就被指控『傲慢粗魯』了

 

請站長要把這個帖留下來，不要封鎖，讓大家看看，陰陽反覆沒有搞懂的下場是怎麼回事

 

陰陽反覆這個道家這麼重要的修煉法則，卻被完全的忽略，在一個講道家修煉的論壇，竟然一堆人都沒搞懂什麼是陰陽反覆，就在『熱心的』給錯誤的意見

 

 

 

 

[Shadow_self]

22 minutes ago, awaken said:

 

First, you shouldn't just accuse someone of having an outburst, I'm just typing faster

Second, he didn't have a leg injury, he was out of breath, since you can understand what I wrote, you should also read the keyword, "practice thoroughly"

Third, the best way to solve the qi floating caused by not practicing thoroughly is to practice thoroughly.

Fourth, if you don't know this, you shouldn't casually say that the other party is injured in his leg. In fact, his leg is not injured, and his body is not injured. He is just stuck in his upper body because he is depressed gas

Fifth, I have been studying Chinese medicine for many years. I can assure you that Chinese medicine cannot cure qigong from qi uplifting.

Sixth, I think this beginner is very talented, but misguided and full of fear, what he needs is not more fear, but the guidance of the right message

Seventh, I don't have emotional outbursts, but I feel that some of you have emotional outbursts. You may not know that in some cases, I can receive the other party's emotional energy.

 

 

 

1. Unfoundedly calling people ignorant, lying and nonsense spouting is basically an emotional outburst...You can disagree with someone in a civil manner

2. The point is lost on you, you cannot fix a problem without identifying it first. Have you the ability to diagnose people at a distance without ever seeing them?

3. Any practices that generate or move qi should be practiced under the supervision/guidance of a teacher...Plenty of people thought they were Jesus or Buddha after Max put a spontaneous method into the public arena...Some of them had worse things happen

4. I revert to my original point..I've never met a TCM doctor who can diagnose someone via a wall of text....TCM does not tend to operate that way, and while I have little knowledge of it, I have several friends that are competent...they ALWAYS emphasise the nature of an in person examination...the best they can do from a text is gather a bit of data to help form a diagnosis, not to complete one. The very nature of TCM is that is is individual based, not generalized...So walls of text wont suffice

5. I never said it could cure it. More likely, I would be advising someone to get checked to see if there was any predisposition to the effect...if not, then proceed from there...settle it down, find a teacher and then practice according to instructions

6. What evidence is there this person is talented? Am I talented because I've gotten the hang of a few practices that seem to obscure pretty much all of my peers? No...rather there is some information about me they are not privy to...Much like in this case...there is a wealth of information about this individual you are not privy to. Mental leaps aren't a good means of evaluation.

7. So you are saying that the way in which you are speaking to @freeform & @Earl Grey is entirely cool and calm? Some things, despite language barriers are clear, and I don't think its true that you are not being overly emotional here.

 

But by all means, correct me if I am wrong

Edited March 15, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Iliketurtles]

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Like I said....You don't hear me saying surplus Yin does not come from the environment...the devil is in the details however

 

Allow me to demonstrate one such example

 

"No. You gather both yin and yang, because the two always go
together, struggling, one always trying to complement the other But
inside your dantien, you put only yang ch'i. The yin chi goes elsewhere
in the body It is useless to you before you finish Level Four'"

 

Followed by

 

When we are finished with Level Three, we send
our yang down to the hui yin. There it gathers as much yin as we
have sent down yang. After a time, maybe even months or years, yin
and yang rise together

 

Hold on a second? I thought you already gathered Yin with Yang? If so, then why would you need to gather as much? It should already be there right?

 

And also..where is the "there" that the supposed level 1 Yin goes? If it was already at the hui yin post level 1, there would be no need to gather anymore, right?

 

You see I cannot say it is "wrong"...I would require answers to those questions (and more)...I can say it is conflicting information, and partial/incomplete information...

 

To state correct/incorrect...More details are required...details which I note are absent from any description by Jim, Kostas or what is supposedly John

 

Also there is this to think about...

 

Kostas said that the Dantien is the lowest chakra capable of storing Yang, and that the Hui Yin is strictly related to Yin. Again there are details here that are unequivocally incorrect

 

The lower dan tien is not a chakra..it is a frequency below the chakra system, that has some tethers into it.

 

So like I said before...There are inconsistencies, misunderstandings, some correct details, some incorrect details and so forth.

 

 

 

I prefer the video instruction, but that is just my preference.

 

[awaken]

2 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

1. Unfoundedly calling people ignorant, lying and nonsense spouting is basically an emotional outburst...You can disagree with someone in a civil manner

2. The point is lost on you, you cannot fix a problem without identifying it first. Have you the ability to diagnose people at a distance without ever seeing them?

3. Any practices that generate or move qi should be practiced under the supervision/guidance of a teacher...Plenty of people thought they were Jesus or Buddha after Max put a spontaneous method into the public arena...Some of them had worse things happen

4. I revert to my original point..I've never met a TCM doctor who can diagnose someone via a wall of text....TCM does not tend to operate that way, and while I have little knowledge of it, I have several friends that are competent...they ALWAYS emphasise the nature of an in person examination...the best they can do from a text is gather a bit of data to help form a diagnosis, not to complete one. The very nature of TCM is that is is individual based, not generalized...So walls of text wont suffice

5. I never said it could cure it. More likely, I would be advising someone to get checked to see if there was any predisposition to the effect...if not, then proceed from there...settle it down, find a teacher and then practice according to instructions

6. What evidence is there this person is talented? Am I talented because I've gotten the hang of a few practices that seem to obscure pretty much all of my peers? No...rather there is some information about me they are not privy to...Much like in this case...there is a wealth of information about this individual you are not privy to. Mental leaps aren't a good means of evaluation.

7. So you are saying that the way in which you are speaking to @freeform & @Earl Grey is entirely cool and calm? Some things, despite language barriers are clear, and I don't think its true that you are not being overly emotional here.

 

But by all means, correct me if I am wrong

 

 

1. 我說的是事實
2. 問題很清楚了
3. 我不知道Max是誰，氣的產生和移動，本來就不需要老師，只有控制型的老師，想要錢的老師才會做這種事情
4. 你不懂中醫，所以你不懂我在說什麼
5. 你們這種說法就是在製造恐懼，因為初學者氣機升起之後，強迫壓制，本來就會導致這種情況，這是很常見的，因為錯誤的價值觀造成的氣功病
6. 我教過許多學生，自以為是的，是最難教的，一張白紙是最好教的，一張白紙，還很容易發動氣機的，確實是有天賦
7. 你硬要在我頭上安上情緒化的帽子，我也很無奈，我再說一次，我個人的名譽不重要，你們三個人圍攻一個人的霸凌行為，都清楚地留在這裡，這個帖子一定要留下來，讓別人看看三個人如何對付一個熱心的人，而這個熱心的人就是一個單純的想法，不希望初學者被恐嚇或者誤導

 

 

[awaken]

 

關於氣的產生和移動，本來就不需要老師，但是對於道家修煉的原理原則，確實是需要老師的，真正的老師，不會去教你氣如何移動，氣如何移動根本就不是重點，請問你看過哪一本道家經典告訴你氣如何移動是重點？

 

道家經典從頭到尾，講的都是陰陽反覆，不懂陰陽怎麼可能修道呢？

 

你們捨本逐末，把陰陽反覆給捨棄忽略，卻跟狗一樣在追自己的尾巴，還鼓勵一個有天份的新人跟你一起追尾巴，我反對這種做法，抱歉，徹底反對

 

 

[awaken]

我轉貼一小段我寫的金丹四百字，給各位參考一下，短短的幾句話，講的都是陰陽，請問哪句話講到氣的產生和移動？

 

氣在身上走來走去，剛開始很亂沒錯，但是當你練的時間長了，他就會慢慢走出一個規律，這個規律不是因為你有什麼方法去控制，或者你的老師教你氣該怎麼走，這個規律是自然的法則，當你的氣成熟到一個程度，他自然會產生的，就跟春夏秋冬四季變換一樣，是大自然的法則

 

所以當一個初學者，氣在身上橫衝直撞的時候，要做的不是去控制這個氣該往哪個方向走，而是順其自然，給予足夠的時間，讓氣可以慢慢緩下來，這才是正確的練法，氣的『練透』，需要時間，初學者需要心裡有個底，而不是恐嚇

 

 

－－－－－－－－－－－－－

 

土擒真鉛，真鉛制真汞。鉛汞歸真土，身心寂不動。

 

真土就是意，真鉛就是氣感＋烏兔小藥，真土擒真鉛，就是一開始用注意力抓住氣。真鉛是氣感＋烏兔小藥，真汞就是容易流動的注意力，你會說，真土也是意，真汞也是注意力，有啥不同？

真土強調的是環境，真汞強調的是流動性。

所以真鉛制真汞就是練到某個地方，大概從氣感的一心境初禪，就能夠制住容易流動的心念了。

所以我們無為法在練的時候，經常強調『以鉛制汞』，這個制並不是控制，而是說氣夠強的話，心念就不會一直流動，變成雜念，為了要讓氣更強，我們通常建議去戶外練，因為戶外有天地之氣，可以更容易進入狀況，氣的強度差異是蠻大的，如果在室內練，氣太弱，就會不容易進步。

鉛汞歸真土，這裡的鉛汞已經不是分離狀態，而是鉛制汞的狀態，也就是一心狀態，所以後面說身心寂不動，但是這是詩，事實上在練的時候，氣感狀態的一心，身體還是可以動的，所以氣感狀態的一心是比較粗淺的一心，二禪的一心光還在動，如果嚴格定義，這時候雖然已經不受雜念影響，但是意念還是可以動的，因此，如果按照最嚴格的定義，來定義身心寂不動的狀態，應該是要達到三禪，捨念的開始，才是最嚴格定義的身心寂不動。

這也就是為什麼經常強調，在烏肝小藥的光感階段，對於自己的起心動念，特別是意圖，要非常覺知，因為這時候的雜念雖然沒有，但是意圖還是在的，這時候的意圖如果沒有清淨，就會導向幻境，這也是所有進階實修者最大的障礙。

 

虛無生白雪，寂靜發黃芽。玉爐火溫溫，鼎上飛紫霞。

 

這個講的是四種功態，虛無就會產生白雪的內景，這個內景是很容易被誤解的，因為沒有虛無也會產生白雪，但是狀態不同，病氣的內景跟白雪也很像，但是虛無產生的白雪，跟病氣產生的白雪，和烏肝過程中出現的白雪是不同的，虛無出現的白雪必定有一個次第，就是在虛無生白雪之前，會不斷的出現二階段陽生，可能長達好幾年的二階段陽生，各式各樣的二階段陽生演化，後續才有可能會產生虛無生白雪的那種白雪，至於詳細內景，既然張伯端沒講，我也不說，免得被有心人利用，我就針對次第來說，避免有些人出現病氣白點，也當成虛無生白雪。

 

寂靜發黃芽，這個黃芽的次第是比虛無生白雪要次等，虛無生白雪已經是中脈開通成熟了，才會產生虛無生白雪，而寂靜發黃芽正好相反，是中脈剛開始開通的跡象。

 

寂靜發黃芽的功態跟黃庭光的功態是一樣的，講的是一樣的次第功態，但是兩者含義不同，黃芽的芽代表的是剛開始，黃庭的庭代表的是這個空間，一個著重在中脈的開始，一個著重在中脈的空間，不管如何，中脈是虛空之脈，需要虛空才能打開，黃芽代表的是剛開始打開中脈的虛空，黃庭代表的是這個空間，意思是這個空間之後會孕育金丹真人。

 

在次第上要如何確定自己是寂靜發黃芽呢？

寂靜發黃芽的寂靜，就是化陰過程中的入定恍惚，經常是只剩下一個淡淡的覺知，但是都不動了，身心寂不動，到了極點之後，如果陰已經夠少，就會發生一種特殊的黃光，這種黃光偏白，而且發的形狀也不一定，有時候從中間發，有時候一整片浮上來，不一定的，但是一整片黃白光算是比較共通的特色，而且產生在身心寂不動之後，下一回合再練，就很有希望會產生二階段比較成熟的陽生內景。

 

因此同樣的，必須與烏肝光做一個區隔，烏肝光出現的時機，意念是可以動的，而且大多在氣感之後，因此意念可動與不可動，這就是一個很大的區隔點，如果對自己的意念絲毫不覺知的人，一下子就說自己是黃芽，那只能說又是一個幻境入魔的人了。

 

能練出烏肝光和黃芽光的人，必定會發現到其中巨大的意識狀態的差距，這也就是我為什麼一直強調要中觀覺照如實觀的原因，如果沒有如實觀，光是講功態，追功態，那是不可能練到黃芽光的。

 

玉爐就是玄關竅，火溫溫，就是神火灌注到玄關竅，有需要神火灌注到玄關竅的，只有一個狀態，就是烏肝狀態。

 

鼎上飛紫霞，鼎就是玄關竅，紫霞就是紫光，也不是只有紫光，還有各種光，彩虹有什麼光，烏肝就有什麼光，只是不同的光有不同的光譜，紅光頻率低，紫光頻率高，大部分的人會從紅光開始出現，少部分的人也會從其他的光出現，但是練久了之後，幾乎所有的光色都會出現過。

 

 

 

華池蓮花開，神水金波靜。夜深月正明，天地一輪鏡。

華池也是玄關竅，蓮花開這個已經是第三期陽生金丹快要成熟的現象了，也就是不斷的發生二期陽生之後，有一天終於進入三期陽生，會產生的金丹演化現象，這時候的金丹長得不是金丹的模樣，但是你練到那邊的人，你會知道，是同樣的，應該說不是同一顆，而是同一個虛空環境，會凝結出來的內景，虛空一打開，就開始產生大藥就開始凝結出來，一個回合一個回合的練下去，每個回合都有他的演化次第。

 

神水就是鉛汞，就是神氣，水就是氣，就是鉛，烏肝兔髓都是鉛，小藥，小藥鉛轉換成大藥金，這個金不是金色的金，是金丹的金，金丹不是金黃色的烏肝，很多人把腹部的金黃色太陽輪作用區凝聚出來的烏肝當成金丹，這是完全的錯誤。

 

所以神水金波靜，就是小藥轉換成大藥的過程。

 

夜深月正明，天地一輪鏡，這個就是三期陽生，開完蓮花之後，就出現正圓月，跟兔髓的假圓月小藥不同，兔髓假圓月小藥也是明月內景，但是如果兩樣都經歷過，當然知道差很多，而且次第完全不同。

 

兔髓是三禪的過程之一，會出現一陣子，但是不會像烏肝，幾乎是長期存在的。但是正圓月釋出現在連續的陽生二階段，無數的二階陽生之後，進化成三階段陽生，才會出現，而且會先出現蓮花，換言之，圓月是淨化的蓮花。

 

關於蓮花，有的人會把烏肝出現的時候，注意力貫注在烏肝上，這時候烏肝就會產生花紋，有的人就會以為這就是蓮花，不是啊，你自己有沒有把注意力灌在上面你自己都不知道嗎？所以沒有如實觀中觀覺照的人，真的沒辦法練啊，怎麼練怎麼歪，就有本事把烏肝動手腳練成蓮花，無奈啊。

 

神水金波靜，神氣鉛汞在這個時後以經都化解完了，都平靜無波瀾了，才能小藥轉成大藥，你自己的意念還能不能動，你自己都不知道，你還把神灌注在玄關產生小藥的現象，當成大藥蓮花，這樣的人，是沒辦法練丹道的。

 

煉丹道者必然對內在神火意識要有高度的通透能力，靠的是什麼，就是對自己百分之百的誠實，有沒有動心念，有沒有動企圖，自己都要清清楚楚的，如果都不敢面對自己，就是縱容慾望，追著功態跑，不管老師怎麼教，都會練到奇怪的地方去。

 

 

 

 

 

 

硃砂煉陽氣，水銀烹金精。金精與陽氣，硃砂而水銀。

 

這段主要講硃砂和水銀的區別，我們知道硃砂是硫化汞，經過提煉後，會變成汞，也就是水銀，所以硃砂跟水銀的區別，我們可以看得出來，硃砂是比較粗糙的，未經提煉的，而水銀是比較純粹的，提煉過的。

而鉛汞的汞講的就是神火，因此我們可以從這裡看到，張伯端把比較粗的神火稱為硃砂，比較精細的神火稱為水銀，因此我們知道神火分成兩種，也就是所謂的識神和元神。

粗糙的識神練的是陽氣，就是小藥，精緻的元神練的是金精，就是大藥。

 

日魂玉兔脂，月魄金烏髓。撿來歸鼎中，化作一泓水。

 

日魂是練烏肝的環境，也就是烏肝狀態下的神火就是魂，月魄就是練兔髓的環境，也就是兔髓狀態下的神火就是魄。脂就是脂肪，外層的意思，髓就是骨髓，就是內層的意思，日魂就是烏肝狀態，這個狀態是兔髓的外層，月魄就是兔髓，是烏肝的裏層。所以參同契說，兩者互為宅室，烏肝就是外層的宅院，兔髓就是裡層的內室。不管是裏還是外，陰還是陽，烏兔都是小藥，撿來歸鼎中，化作一泓水，兩者都是練大藥的材料。

 

這一段，我看了一堆註解，沒看到有人說對的，一個很大的問題，很少人練到烏肝兔髓都出現過的，烏肝出現的人比較多，兔髓出現的人的就少很多了，因為兔髓要出現，有一個很大的障礙，就是欲界幻境，沒有通過欲界幻境的人，是出不了兔髓的。

 

換言之，因為欲界幻境而障礙演化的人，幾乎是大部分實修者會面臨到的現實，也就是說，沒有練習覺照中觀如實觀的人，幾乎沒有一個跨得過欲界幻境，因此也就搞不清楚烏肝兔髓之間的關係了。

[awaken]

再看一篇呂岩的詩

 

絕句

唐代：呂岩

捉得金晶固命基，日魂東畔月華西。
於中煉就長生藥，服了還同天地齊。

 

日魂就是烏肝，月華西，就是兔髓，練丹道練的就是烏肝兔髓

 

氣感的移動，只是剛開始幾分鐘的事情，一下子就要過渡到烏肝兔髓了

 

但是你一旦學了那些氣的控制法，你的注意力嘗試去控制氣的方向，你就開始走上很嚴重的錯路

 

你的氣感，將永遠停留在氣感，而失去轉化成烏肝的能力

 

更別說後面的『月華西』兔髓了

 

我就很懷疑，這些教人家控制氣的方向的大師，到底有幾個練出『月華西』了？

 

 

[Earl Grey]

 

This is the futility of responding to people without the good faith effort or reciprocity that is expected in any conversation:

Spoiler

 

 

This is my ultimate conclusion to such enlightened genius:

Spoiler

WoWZERS!!!!!!!

 

Translate this:

Spoiler

We can a priori and prior to all given objects have a knowledge of those conditions on which alone experience of them is possible, but never of the laws to which things in themselves be subject without reference, to possible experience.

 

and this:

Spoiler

It is wrong to oppose to objects an isolated ego-subject, without seeing in the Dasein the basic constitution of being-in-the-world; but it is equally wrong to suppose that the problem is seen in principle and progress made toward answering it if the solipsism of the isolated ego is replaced by a solipsism en deux in the I-thou relationship. As a relationship between Dasein and Dasein this has its possibility only on the basis of being-in-the-world. Put otherwise, being-in-the-world is with equal originality both being-with and being-among.

 

One more for the road:

Spoiler

Liberal attitudes towards the other are characterized both by respect for otherness, openness to it, and an obsessive fear of harassment. In short, the other is welcomed insofar as its presence is not intrusive, insofar as it is not really the other. Tolerance thus coincides with its opposite. My duty to be tolerant towards the other effectively means that I should not get too close to him or her, not intrude into his space—in short, that I should respect his intolerance towards my over-proximity. This is increasingly emerging as the central human right of advanced capitalist society: the right not to be ‘harassed’, that is, to be kept at a safe distance from others.

 

Spoiler

Wow WOW WOW WWWWWWOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Earl Grey

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

I prefer the video instruction, but that is just my preference.

 

It is hard to discuss what is in the video...lets stick to the texts unless you want to start talking about videos

 

Are those discrepancies I mentioned addressed  explicitly in the video?

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

 

 

1. I am telling the truth
2. the problem is clear
3. I don't know who Max is. For the generation and movement of qi, there is no need for a teacher. Only a controlling teacher, a teacher who wants money, would do this kind of thing.
4. You don't understand Chinese medicine, so you don't understand what I'm talking about
5. Your argument is creating fear, because after the beginner's qi is raised, forcibly suppressing it will lead to this situation. This is very common. Qigong disease caused by wrong values.
6. I have taught many students, self-righteousness is the most difficult to teach, a blank sheet of paper is the best to teach, a blank sheet of paper, and easy to start the gas engine, is indeed talented
7. You insist on putting an emotional hat on my head, I am also very helpless, I will say again, my personal reputation is not important, the bullying behavior of the three of you besieging one person is clearly left here, this post must be Stay and let others see how the three deal with a zealous person who is a pure thought and don't want beginners to be intimidated or misled

 

 

 

1. Im not convinced...labelling people like that isn't telling the truth. You are viewing their words through a distorted lens because of you attachment to the practice

2. How so?

3. The search function is your friend here

4. I don't need to understand Chinese medicine in depth to know the principles practitioners adhere to

5. Not practicing isn't forcibly suppressing anything.

6. That is irrelevant and you don't understand the details of my point...I did not have prior experience in these practices, nor did they...There was another reason I did better, and it had nothing to do with teachers or teachings...But thank you for illustrating my point about mental leaps

7. I'm not insisting on it, so much as you demonstrated it...Nobody is bullying you....the only person throwing insults around here is you...So who is the bully really?

[dwai]

Moderator's Note - This thread is under review by the moderator team. All parties, please step back from escalating confrontation, take a deep breath, and defuse the tension that is building up. Appropriate action will be taken after review. 

[liminal_luke]

In the past, Awaken has chided herself for not being fluent in English.  If she thought she could express herself competently in English, I think she would.  Some of her statements do come off as harsh (telling experienced cultivators that they are practicing wrong) but I don't believe she intends to be mean or cause offense.  Sometimes the more respect we have for someone, the more willing we are to offer our uncensored opinion, even if it may not be well received.  

 

I don't know any of the above to be the case, but I offer these thoughts as possibilities to consider.  May we all be gentle with one another.

Edited March 15, 2022 by liminal_luke

[dwai]

4 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

In the past, Awaken has chided herself for not being fluent in English.  If she thought she could express herself competently in English, I think she would.  Some of her statements do come off as harsh (telling experienced cultivators that they are practicing wrong) but I don't believe she intends to be mean or cause offense.  Sometimes the more respect we have for someone, the more willing we are to offer our uncensored opinion, even if it may not be well received.  

 

I don't know any of the above to be the case, but I offer these thoughts as possibilities to consider.  May we all be gentle with one another.

You mean like this?

 

The response translates as follows --

 

Quote

You rely on translation software, I can understand English, the problem is that you can't read Chinese I have read your articles before, lack of the ability to reflect, so I do not expect you to understand what I write, obviously you can not understand the Chinese, but insist on planting i can not understand English, even this understanding ability, how can I expect you to understand the way of evolution? I'm not writing for you, I'm writing for other people in this forum. These things I wrote out are not a matter of English or Chinese, but the obstacles caused by your lack of cultivation level, if you can't see this relationship, you will always circle around the door, and then self-deception is a problem of language You make two big mistakes, think about it, one is to think of breath as the only one, and the other is to think of lead as gold. Lao Tzu chapter 5: "Between heaven and earth, its still limbs are weak, unyielding, and moving and healing." Breathing, like a bellows, is the role of a bellows, stirring up fire, but you think of the bellows as fire. Breathing is a kind of 'push' effect, through the promotion of breathing, strengthen the martial fire in the practice, produce small medicine, small medicine in your case, is the movement of the energy body, but more than that, small medicine in addition to the movement of the energy body, there is a deeper level, the energy body in addition to giving you the sense of moving qi, the energy body itself is light, but your attention is too limited, causing your third eye can not be opened, can not see the light of the energy body, this is also the light of the black liver, the light of the black liver is also a small medicine, and then further open the heart, The formation of rabbit marrow, which is also a small medicine, you do not have the rabbit marrow of the black liver, just talking about concentration, just talking about awareness, really a little too 'unconscious'. Lead and gold are two different things, lead is conceived in the knowledge of the gods, gold is conceived in the pure Yuan God, if you are not clear about these two, do not say that you are practicing Dan Dao, at most you are practicing Qigong.

 

[Iliketurtles]

51 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

It is hard to discuss what is in the video...lets stick to the texts unless you want to start talking about videos

 

Are those discrepancies I mentioned addressed  explicitly in the video?

 

Training information only no metaphysics.

[Cleansox]

17 hours ago, almaxy said:

 

do you guys have any advice?

 /... ... /what should I do?

You have got some advice already here. 

 

IF you want to continue with this line of practice , I can guide you to a website where a group that has this as their main thing discuss the pros and cons with it, including showing what you did that might not have been such a good idea. 

 

They have at least one instructor as a member here, although not so active. 

[freeform]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

If she thought she could express herself competently in English, I think she would. 

The suggestion I saw was that she refuses to paste a translated version of what she says… not that she refuses to speak English - which wouldn’t be fair, obviously.

 

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Some of her statements do come off as harsh (telling experienced cultivators that they are practicing wrong) but I don't believe she intends to be mean or cause offense.  Sometimes the more respect we have for someone, the more willing we are to offer our uncensored opinion, even if it may not be well received.

The ‘harshness’ is not in disagreeing… I welcome disagreement, personally. In fact that often makes for a much more productive discussion.
 

But I’ve seen no evidence that she has ever (in any of her interactions) made the effort to understand anything anyone else writes - yet expects it from everyone interacting with her.

 

I don’t think it’s meanness - maybe laziness and arrogance - I’m not sure.

 

Quote

You don't need to listen to those half-baked nonsense at all. I'm here to write records. Spontaous kung fu is a very powerful skill, and only those who have talent can have the ability to start. People who are too stupid can't practice. I have taught hundreds of students. They are too stupid and self-consto-consense that they can't learn at all.

Spontaous work is very strong, so when you start practising spontaneous work, you must give enough time. Two hours must be needed. Spontaly, spontaneous work is very taboo to practice for only five minutes, and then shrink your hand without practising, which will lead to "sickness", that is, too strong air, stuck on your head. I think it's an exaggeration is that you, a Those who want to practice spontaneous kung fu actually don't even have this basic cognition. You just continue to practice, and then talk nonsense about spontaneous kung fu on the forum. Just for this, I must leave a record here, so as not to pass more rumours from those who are ignorant of spontaneous kung fu.

If you want to practice spontaneous work, you have to find relevant books and establish relevant concepts. At least, you have to free up two hours, and you can't control your gas casually. You can't use spontaneous work to start the air, and then practice it with the meditation method you study everywhere, which is a trouble for yourself.

But you are stupid enough to do this kind of thing. I really think you are too exaggerated. Since you are stupid enough to do it, you don't have to go to a traditional Chinese medicine doctor. I promise you that the degree of traditional Chinese medicine is worse than mine.

What you have to do is to find a big piece of turf and practice spontaneous skills in two hours.

She had never asked anyone any clarifying questions, made no attempt to understand anything about their training, their teachers, traditions etc…

In the above example, (apart from calling people stupid for some reason) she’s saying that someone (me?) said that one needs to control spontaneous movements… no one said this… but why should that stop her when she’s got a ‘you’re all wrong’ point to prove?

 

Bear in mind that I’ve spent the majority of my life dealing with people that don’t speak my language - that’s no excuse. Kindness and respect is not bound by culture or a language difference.

Asking questions, giving the benefit of the doubt, making an effort to understand or be understood - I’ve seen none of that here.

This is just a shitty attitude that I’m refusing to tolerate any longer. And that’s not the kind of decision I take lightly.

 

I really appreciate and value @liminal_luke’s attempt to bridge the gap and show kindness and create some peace.
 

But sometimes the gap is too great to be bridged.
 

Sometimes the most skilful action is to cut ties until there’s some evidence of reciprocity in effort, kindness and respect. Until then I will continue to ignore Awaken’s posts.