Zhan Zhuang - Grounded or Ungrounded

[Lukks]

1 hour ago, Cleansox said:

You have got some advice already here. 

 

IF you want to continue with this line of practice , I can guide you to a website where a group that has this as their main thing discuss the pros and cons with it, including showing what you did that might not have been such a good idea. 

 

They have at least one instructor as a member here, although not so active. 

Please, show me the website, I'm not sure if I will continue to practice, but I want to learn more about what I did.

[Cleansox]

Two consecutive hours of spontaneous movements?

 

That's a..... lot. 

 

And one needs a certain amount of space as well? 

So that one will not hurt oneself, or others? 

 

I wonder how well the translation works. The notion that only talanted people can move in to spontaneous movements must be an interesting choice by (Google translate?). 

 

As far as I can tell (IME and from other describing it), it can be triggered rather easily if it is the goal of ones practice (and I would say it feels different from when it starts truly on it's own).

The question is, when does it progress from spontaneous to habitual movement? 

 

That some that does this are taught that they are special, well, that is another matter. 

[Geof Nanto]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

I really appreciate and value @liminal_luke’s attempt to bridge the gap and show kindness and create some peace.
 

But sometimes the gap is too great to be bridged.
 

Sometimes the most skilful action is to cut ties until there’s some evidence of reciprocity in effort, kindness and respect. Until then I will continue to ignore Awaken’s posts.

Unfortunately, that’s my conclusion too for the reasons  you concisely outline earlier in your post.  I would very much like it if that wasn’t the case because Awaken is obviously a dedicated practitioner.  

 

For me personally, my heart wept when I saw how this discussion has devolved. I wish that wasn’t the case. But this forum has established behaviour protocols for good reasons and Awaken has clearly breached them.  Because of her innate connection with aspects of the life-enhancing turmoil and elusive harmonies of Chinese Daoism as a living tradition, I’d dearly like it if she is given every chance to modify her abrasive and offensive manner. 

 

(I could say much more about the situation from an inner energies perspective but I don’t think it’s appropriate here.)

[Lukks]

It's kinda funny how both topics I created people changed subject and had wrangle, maybe I should stop creating topics for the well being of this forum

 

[Earl Grey]

7 minutes ago, almaxy said:

It's kinda funny how both topics I created people changed subject and had wrangle, maybe I should stop creating topics for the well being of this forum

 

 

You're not the issue, buddy. Just be open, but remember to filter.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, almaxy said:

It's kinda funny how both topics I created people changed subject and had wrangle, maybe I should stop creating topics for the well being of this forum

 

Welcome to the dao bums! 

[freeform]

13 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Two consecutive hours of spontaneous movements?

 

That's a..... lot. 

 

In my experience there's no set time... your body will decide for itself how long it will last. Sometimes it may well be 2hrs - other times a lot shorter. It's usually best to go along with it - not impose a certain time. Some teachers try to keep it to a short time in fact... though I think this is for when the students are mostly unsupervised in their practice.

 

13 hours ago, Cleansox said:

And one needs a certain amount of space as well? 

So that one will not hurt oneself, or others?

 

I remember one group would be practicing in a tiny little courtyard where others were doing laundry and boiling massive pots of stock the whole time... noisy, smelly, cramped... sometimes they'd start frying birds eye chillies in a huge wok - which feels just like being pepper-sprayed to everyone in the vicinity - it still worked, and the students were doing very well. So who knows... maybe a lovely glade in a forest would be nicer - but it doesn't add much in my opinion.

 

13 hours ago, Cleansox said:

I wonder how well the translation works. The notion that only talanted people can move in to spontaneous movements must be an interesting choice by (Google translate?).

 

Young and reasonably healthy people can start the spontaneous 'engine' very quickly in my experience... within a single session - especially if there are others in the group who's engines are already going - the qi field transmits that info to everyone in the group - and as long as they have a bit of qi, they'll be shaking and spazzing about in short order. If you have even a tiny bit of skill in emission (or just a lot of qi) you can start the engine off in most people immediately.

 

13 hours ago, Cleansox said:

The question is, when does it progress from spontaneous to habitual movement? 

 

This is troubling.

 

The process has a beginning middle and end...

 

It most certainly comes to an end within a few months or a few years at most... The Qi finally starts to become smooth and full - which allows it to move from the nerves deeper into the channel system. This is when you'll find people sitting or standing quietly - sometimes holding a mudra or chanting spontaneously. No movements... no shaking... no emotional reactions.

 

At this point, essentially the process has come to an end. Time to go deeper with other practices.

 

The problem is that it can be made to continue past this point. If the teacher encourages you to continue after this end point, you'll find a way to bring the qi back out to the nervous system. At this stage you're just depleting yourself.

 

Most people that have been through the process and completed it (and stopped there) tend to be really fun, easy going people. Most of the tension and reactivity is gone - and they're humorous, not self centred, relaxed, fun to be with.

 

The ones that continue past the end point tend to exhibit the 'adrenal fatigue' type symptoms... sullen, pale, depleted... they often have skin issues (rashes and stuff) because of the constant heat and over stimulation... they tend to be extremely sensitive to everything - their emotions are easily triggered (cry at the news or at a cute looking puppy)... they pick up 'vibes' from people... they're easily pushed out of centre by the smallest thing. They seem to find it really hard to handle life's difficulties.

 

I remember a group that used spontaneous as their main practice... people were doing it for hours per day for decades.

 

Senior students would be throwing up... coming up in boils and blisters... get ringing in the ears... develop issues with digestion etc etc... These reactions were treated as badges of honour. The teacher was teaching them that these reactions are negative karma clearing out of them In reality he was in effect 'boiling an empty cauldron'... lots of heat and fire - but completely depleted of all water.

 

He was damaging his students really badly. But empty heat is still kind of exhilarating... the over-sensitivity to all sorts of influence is seen as progress... and the hypnotic nature of the spontaneous state meant that they were convinced this was all good.

 

 

[Earl Grey]

50 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

In my experience there's no set time... your body will decide for itself how long it will last. Sometimes it may well be 2hrs - other times a lot shorter. It's usually best to go along with it - not impose a certain time. Some teachers try to keep it to a short time in fact... though I think this is for when the students are mostly unsupervised in their practice.

 

 

I remember one group would be practicing in a tiny little courtyard where others were doing laundry and boiling massive pots of stock the whole time... noisy, smelly, cramped... sometimes they'd start frying birds eye chillies in a huge wok - which feels just like being pepper-sprayed to everyone in the vicinity - it still worked, and the students were doing very well. So who knows... maybe a lovely glade in a forest would be nicer - but it doesn't add much in my opinion.

 

 

Young and reasonably healthy people can start the spontaneous 'engine' very quickly in my experience... within a single session - especially if there are others in the group who's engines are already going - the qi field transmits that info to everyone in the group - and as long as they have a bit of qi, they'll be shaking and spazzing about in short order. If you have even a tiny bit of skill in emission (or just a lot of qi) you can start the engine off in most people immediately.

 

 

This is troubling.

 

The process has a beginning middle and end...

 

It most certainly comes to an end within a few months or a few years at most... The Qi finally starts to become smooth and full - which allows it to move from the nerves deeper into the channel system. This is when you'll find people sitting or standing quietly - sometimes holding a mudra or chanting spontaneously. No movements... no shaking... no emotional reactions.

 

At this point, essentially the process has come to an end. Time to go deeper with other practices.

 

The problem is that it can be made to continue past this point. If the teacher encourages you to continue after this end point, you'll find a way to bring the qi back out to the nervous system. At this stage you're just depleting yourself.

 

Most people that have been through the process and completed it (and stopped there) tend to be really fun, easy going people. Most of the tension and reactivity is gone - and they're humorous, not self centred, relaxed, fun to be with.

 

The ones that continue past the end point tend to exhibit the 'adrenal fatigue' type symptoms... sullen, pale, depleted... they often have skin issues (rashes and stuff) because of the constant heat and over stimulation... they tend to be extremely sensitive to everything - their emotions are easily triggered (cry at the news or at a cute looking puppy)... they pick up 'vibes' from people... they're easily pushed out of centre by the smallest thing. They seem to find it really hard to handle life's difficulties.

 

I remember a group that used spontaneous as their main practice... people were doing it for hours per day for decades.

 

Senior students would be throwing up... coming up in boils and blisters... get ringing in the ears... develop issues with digestion etc etc... These reactions were treated as badges of honour. The teacher was teaching them that these reactions are negative karma clearing out of them In reality he was in effect 'boiling an empty cauldron'... lots of heat and fire - but completely depleted of all water.

 

He was damaging his students really badly. But empty heat is still kind of exhilarating... the over-sensitivity to all sorts of influence is seen as progress... and the hypnotic nature of the spontaneous state meant that they were convinced this was all good.

 

 

 

Someone tried to offer a spontaneous form for free here in the past, and I wanted it off for the safety of practitioners. But, he insists there's no such thing as qi deviation and just to do more, and he runs a qigong clinic in UK, while also claiming to have learned from the "grandfather of qigong".

 

Back then, it was the dawei/karen era and I was considered the troll for reporting the guy for everyone's safety while he doubled down and made himself to be the New Age kind guru who gives something for free...then expects people to come to his clinic if something goes wrong (which will, of course).

Edited March 16, 2022 by Earl Grey
wrong d!

[dwai]

8 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Back then, it was the dwai/karen era and I was considered the troll for reporting the guy for everyone's safety while he doubled down and made himself to be the New Age kind guru who gives something for free...then expects people to come to his clinic if something goes wrong (which will, of course).

You meant dawei/Karen?

[freeform]

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Someone tried to offer a spontaneous form for free here in the past, and I wanted it off for the safety of practitioners. But, he insists there's no such thing as qi deviation and just to do more

 

I remember that.

For teachers, zifa gong is very attractive - it's easy, uncomplicated - and gives an immediate, visceral experience to students. Students are usually in awe of this because it's something completely outside of normal experience... they get to feel qi for the first time - and experience something they've never imagined is real or possible.

 

This gives the teacher real power... so I can understand why they would want to prolong it in their students... Why would you stop something that brings in students - requires little skill and effort from you?

 

Putting that stuff up online... well I don't know why someone would do that. I guess they must've been convinced that it's some sort of faultless, benevolent method where nothing can go wrong.

[Earl Grey]

35 minutes ago, dwai said:

You meant dawei/Karen?

 

Oops! I stand corrected and will edit. Sorry dude!

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

I remember that.

For teachers, zifa gong is very attractive - it's easy, uncomplicated - and gives an immediate, visceral experience to students. Students are usually in awe of this because it's something completely outside of normal experience... they get to feel qi for the first time - and experience something they've never imagined is real or possible.

 

This gives the teacher real power... so I can understand why they would want to prolong it in their students... Why would you stop something that brings in students - requires little skill and effort from you?

 

Putting that stuff up online... well I don't know why someone would do that. I guess they must've been convinced that it's some sort of faultless, benevolent method where nothing can go wrong.

 

A financial incentive, and very, very bad training.

[Cleansox]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

which allows it to move from the nerves deeper into the channel system. This is when you'll find people sitting or standing quietly - sometimes holding a mudra or chanting spontaneously. No movements... no shaking... no emotional reactions.

In the tradition I practice, we balance the expression of the emotions and regulate the congenital channels before this happens, and it is usually happening within a context where we, by proper positioning and mudras, gently encourage energy to move deeper. 

 

The movements are more of a swaying nature, and fade out when the tissues no longer overreacts to the increased flow. 

 

Flailing around for two hours would be a sign of incomplete or improper preparation in what I practice. 

 

But we are all shaped by the methods we utilize, so it is of no surprise that we do things different. 

[freeform]

29 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

In the tradition I practice, we balance the expression of the emotions and regulate the congenital channels before this

Interesting thanks. How do you access the congenital channels? Is there an alchemical approach or more of a Neigong method (no obligation to answer that of course)

 

29 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Flailing around for two hours would be a sign of incomplete or improper preparation in what I practice. 

Yeah - for several teachers I trust that do use zifagong, the flailing around is definitely not the aim - but often happens near the beginning for younger people. When there’s a lot of yang quality to the qi, it goes straight to the nerves - and that’s when you see the wilder movements - furious shaking, sprinting, shouting, jumping, falling to the floor etc… most people get past this quickly as long as the teacher is good. For some teachers - the wilder the better  - they’ll even emit qi to make the movements wilder - this is irresponsible in my opinion… I think it’s for showing off to students - but does them absolutely no good. Good teachers (in my opinion) want the process to be effective and efficient - not spectacular and sensational.

One teacher has a method for tracing the mind to the energetic source of the various movements and generating a wave of Sung that transforms the expression onto a deeper level - where a more efficient level of unbinding takes place - and that looks like swaying or pulsating - or even slow qigong type movements.

 

Every teacher that clearly developed their students past zifagong had some other method for sinking and condensing the qi. Condensing as in coming inwards rather than expressing outwards… and sinking - as in sinking to the Dantien - not just descending to the ground (or up to the heart and head - which is where it wants to go in zifagong).
 

When the source of the spontaneous expressions are emotional in nature - that’s where the funny stuff starts happening.

Some people express very physically - if you’ve ever seen spontaneous five animal frolics - that’s basically what happens. As certain energetic circuits start connecting, people will do funny hops and movements like monkeys… springy, bouncy movements like the ‘deer’… slow, heavy ‘bear’ like movements, chest opening movements like the crane etc. It’s also when the ‘organ sounds’ (similar to what Healing Tao and others teach) - but they happen spontaneously as a result of xie qi leaving. Quite amazing stuff.

 

Some express vocally - singing, talking in tongues, humming, laughing, crying, growling etc.

 

When the qi starts going deeper - that’s where the spontaneous mudras, static postures and mantras get going… eventually these quieten down and the student simply experiences deep stillness (often seated, standing or laying down). That’s the end of the process… stillness is the ‘goal’.

[Lukks]

7 hours ago, freeform said:

In my experience there's no set time... your body will decide for itself how long it will last. Sometimes it may well be 2hrs - other times a lot shorter. It's usually best to go along with it - not impose a certain time.

 

I stopped the process of Zi Fa Gong in the middle, can this be the cause of qi trapped in my chest area?

BTW, I'm feeling a lot better guys, nothing too serious, but I had my lesson lol

 

8 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Young and reasonably healthy people can start the spontaneous 'engine' very quickly in my experience... within a single session -

 

 

Yes, exactly what happened to me, when I stood still the movements came immediately, at first I was thinking I was making the moves, but I checked and I wasn't, it was my first experience with Zi Fa Gong and very fun actually.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

8 hours ago, almaxy said:

 

I stopped the process of Zi Fa Gong in the middle, can this be the cause of qi trapped in my chest area?

BTW, I'm feeling a lot better guys, nothing too serious, but I had my lesson lol

 

 

Yes, exactly what happened to me, when I stood still the movements came immediately, at first I was thinking I was making the moves, but I checked and I wasn't, it was my first experience with Zi Fa Gong and very fun actually.

Find a teacher

[Cleansox]

8 hours ago, freeform said:

 How do you access the congenital channels? Is there an alchemical approach or more of a Neigong method (no obligation to answer that of course)

That might be depending on terminology. 

 

I would not call any approach alchemical until after the replenishing process has started, following the terminology described by Wang Mu. 

 

The method is a standing posture not unlike what Damo Mitchell calls wuji, but with more emphasis on the six channels rather than the lower abdominal area. Some of the principles seems to be the same though, so neigong would be an appropriate term. It leads, among other things, to something not unlike what Damo Mitchell describes in the book Heavenly Streams. 

 

To muddle the terminology a bit, the principles that are the focus in the method I practice are also used in the beginning of the alchemical process, but the postures are different and by then one has learned to access other aspects of energetics and awareness. 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

@almaxy While you are looking for a teacher, read this book: How To Measure and Deepen Your Spiritual Realization by Huai-Chin Nan and William Bodri

 

It might give you some answers

[freeform]

9 hours ago, almaxy said:

I stopped the process of Zi Fa Gong in the middle, can this be the cause of qi trapped in my chest area?

Things in these arts are taught as a system - meaning one thing builds on the previous thing. 
 

When you combine things yourself it’s like the blind leading the blind.

 

Even if you follow one of the recommended courses online - that would be much better than making your own Frankenstein monster of a system 😄

But now you know that this is powerful stuff - so I’m sure you’ll do the right thing for you.  

 

9 hours ago, almaxy said:

BTW, I'm feeling a lot better guys, nothing too serious, but I had my lesson lol

I was sure you would. However it’s still best not to get back into internal stuff yet. Exercise and stretching are a really great place to start - and will help you immensely once you do find a system and start internal training again.

[awaken]

11 hours ago, almaxy said:

 

I stopped the process of Zi Fa Gong in the middle, can this be the cause of qi trapped in my chest area?

BTW, I'm feeling a lot better guys, nothing too serious, but I had my lesson lol

 

 

Yes, exactly what happened to me, when I stood still the movements came immediately, at first I was thinking I was making the moves, but I checked and I wasn't, it was my first experience with Zi Fa Gong and very fun actually.

 

是的，沒錯，我教過很多學生，有些學生在沒有閱讀足夠的自發功書籍的情況下，就練了自發功，然後又因為恐懼（氣太強），中途停止自發功，這種情況，會感到暈吐，是非常正常的。

 

Yes, that's right, I have taught many students, some students practiced spontaneous gong without reading enough books on spontaneous gong, and then stopped going halfway because of fear (too strong qi). In this case, It is normal to feel dizzy.

 

你要做的，不是中途暫停自發功，而是把自發功練透，練透的意思就是練到氣緩和下來為止，最好是練到有點昏沈想睡，然後休息一下，直到清醒為止，這樣才是一個完整的循環，這樣練，你會進步得非常快，你可以見證無為法的力量，無為法在自發功上面可以得到很好的發揮。

 

What you need to do is not to suspend the spontaneous gong in the middle, but to practice the spontaneous gong thoroughly. To practice thoroughly means to practice until the breath calms down. It is best to practice until you are a little drowsy and want to sleep, and then take a rest until you wake up. It is a complete cycle. If you practice like this, you will progress very fast, you can witness the power of Wuweifa, and Wuweifa can give full play to spontaneous gong.

 

任何一個因為放鬆就可以自行引發自發功的人，都是有天份的人，雖然現在你不知道這一點，但是當你練了二十年之後，你看過無數多人之後，你會知道我說的是真的。

 

Anyone who can trigger spontaneous gong because of relaxation is a gifted person. Although you don't know this now, after you have practiced for 20 years and you have seen countless people, you will know me. It's true.

 

你不用擔心爭執的問題，我的表達方式讓某些人不愉快，那是我個人的問題，跟你無關。

 

You don't have to worry about disputes, my way of expressing makes some people unhappy, that's my personal problem, not yours.

 

我必須要強調的一個點，在練習丹道的時候，『練透』是一個非常非常重要的點，如果沒有練透，小藥就無法滲透到身體的深處，就沒辦法化解陰氣，這是非常關鍵的一個點，我也很遺憾，我要強調的點沒有被重視，卻被所謂的『讓某些人不愉快』轉移了重點。

 

One point I have to emphasize is that when practicing alchemy, “practice thoroughly” is a very, very important point. This is a very important point, and I regret that the point I want to emphasize has not been taken seriously, but the focus has been diverted by the so-called "making some people unhappy".

 

 

[awaken]

有些人說自發功是自己創造的系統，這一點我要嚴正地反駁，自發功不是我自己創造的系統，在我的文章中，我講了很多關於張伯端和佛陀的練法，所有的練法都是根據經典的，這和搬運法完全不同，搬運法有自己另外一套經典，在我寫的文章當中，針對搬運法，我寫了很多關於搬運法的謬誤，有機會會慢慢貼出來。

 

以下貼出一部分我以前寫的悟真篇解釋

 

Some people say that spontaneous gong is a system created by oneself. I want to refute this point. Spontaneous gong is not a system created by myself. In my article, I talked a lot about the practice of Zhang Boduan and Buddha, all the practice methods. They are all based on the classics. This is completely different from the handling method. The handling method has its own set of classics. In the articles I wrote, I wrote a lot of fallacies about the handling method. I will post it slowly when I have a chance. .

The following is a part of the explanation of Wuzhen that I wrote before

 

陽裏陰精質不剛，獨修一物轉羸尪。

勞形按引皆非道，服氣餐霞總是狂。

舉世謾求鉛汞伏，何時得見龍虎降？

勸君窮取生身處，返本還元是藥王。 


陽裡面的陰精，就是精，練精化氣的精，這個身體裡面的精，本質不是剛的，這個剛，有兩個解釋，剛強或者陽剛，根據薛道光的解釋，此言精氣一身之根本也，奈何此物屬陰，其質不剛

意思就是精氣屬陰

獨修一物轉羸尪，這句話，我看到兩種解釋，劉國樑版本的意思修練精氣一定可以讓身體由弱變強

另外一種解釋，劉一明的解釋正好相反，身所有者，乃陽里之陰精耳。陰精不僅是交感之精。凡涕、唾、津、液、血、氣，皆是陰精。其質不剛，身存則存，身亡則亡，隨幻身而有無之。若修此陽裏陰精一物，而欲保命全形，轉覺嬴尫，事終難成。

他的意思是想要靠練精氣來轉化瘦弱的身體，終究難以達成，和劉國樑的說法正好相反

這邊我個人傾向於認同劉一明的說法，因為下面那一句話，勞形按引皆非道，服氣餐霞總是狂。講的就是勞形，勞累身體，我認為這講的就是運動，按引，按摩，都不是道，服氣，就是練呼吸，餐霞，就是辟穀斷食，都是狂，狂人所說的，意思就是這些方法都練不成的。

照劉一明的說法，銜接上一句，這樣意思就對了，意思就是光是在身體上下功夫，是練不成的。

舉世謾求鉛汞伏，何時得見龍虎降？舉世，全世界，到處，都在求怎麼去降伏鉛汞，怎麼讓鉛汞合，但是什麼時候又有看到龍虎降，就是真的練成鉛汞合呢？他這裡鉛汞伏，龍虎降，講的是同一個狀態。

大家都在求煉成的法，又有誰練成了呢？

勸君窮取生身處，返本還元是藥王。這句話就很清楚了，勸大家要在生身處去窮取，去研究，去探求，去深入，回到根本，才是藥王。

 

The essence of yang, yin and yin is not rigid.
It is not true to work according to the form, and I am convinced that Jianxia is always crazy.
The world is looking for lead and mercury, when will the dragon and tiger descend?
To persuade you to live in poverty, to return the original and return the original is the king of medicine.

The yin essence in the yang is the essence, the essence that refines the essence and transforms the qi. The essence of this body is not rigid in nature. There are two explanations for this rigidity, strong or masculine. The root is also, but this thing is yin, its quality is not rigid

It means the essence is yin

I can see two interpretations of this sentence. Liu Guoliang's version means that cultivating essence can definitely make the body from weak to strong.

Another explanation, Liu Yiming's explanation is just the opposite, the owner of the body is the yin and ear of the yang. Yin essence is not only sympathetic essence. All snot, saliva, body fluid, blood, qi, are all yin essence. Its quality is not rigid, if the body exists, it exists, and if it dies, it perishes. If you cultivate the essence of yin in the yang, and you want to save your life in full shape, you will become enlightened, and things will be difficult in the end.

What he meant was that if he wanted to transform his thin body by training his qi, it would be difficult to achieve, which was the exact opposite of what Liu Guoliang said.

Here, I personally tend to agree with Liu Yiming's statement, because the following sentence is not true, and I am convinced that Jianxia is always crazy. It is about working out the body and working out the body. I think it is about exercise, massage, and massage. They are not Taoism. These methods just don't work.

According to Liu Yiming's statement, linking the previous sentence, this is the right meaning, meaning that it is impossible to practice just by working hard on the body.

The world is looking for lead and mercury, when will the dragon and tiger descend? All over the world, all over the world, everyone is asking how to subdue lead and mercury, how to make lead amalgam merge, but when do you see dragon and tiger descend again, is it really practiced lead and mercury? Here, lead and mercury are subdued, dragons and tigers descend, and they are talking about the same state.

Everyone is looking for the Fa to be perfected, but who has practiced it?

To persuade you to live in poverty, to return the original and return the original is the king of medicine. This sentence is very clear. I advise everyone to take the poor, to study, to explore, to go deep, and to go back to the basics. This is the king of medicine.

 

這是我在2018年7月1日寫的，張貼在ＱＱ空間當中的文章，我在ＱＱ空間，大約張貼了九百篇諸如此類的文章，當然都是中文的。

 

This is an article I wrote on July 1, 2018 and posted on the QQ space. In the QQ space, I have posted about 900 articles of this kind, all in Chinese of course.

[awaken]

另外還有針對四禪八定的部分文章，張貼如下，證明我所練的，完全是根據經典，並非所謂的自創系統

 

藍石  20:23:07

二禪轉三禪的過程，有時候是漸進式的，會拖比較久，有時候就是一秒鐘的切換。這一秒鐘的霎那間切換，有一個現象，就是原來還在光感體感都還在的狀態下，突然一個切換，體感霎那間突然消失了，光感也突然改變成另外一種型態的光，這時候各位就可以知道，這是一種二禪轉三禪的切換。

藍石  20:24:58

當然意識狀態也會有切換，從原來尚可勉強移動的意識狀態，切換成完全無法移動的狀態，意識狀態會停在一種不動，但是也不會覺得無聊，也沒有時間感的狀態，但是人是醒著的，主觀感覺可能只過了一兩分鐘，但是事實上，可能一小時一下子就過去了。

藍石  20:27:40

二禪雖然有產生磁吸現象，也就是注意力牢牢地被光感吸住，不會像初禪那樣失控的雜念紛飛，此時雖然是所謂的無尋無伺狀態，但是『念』仍在，注意力仍在，而三禪則是『捨念』的剛開始，所以二禪轉三禪的一個特徵，就是這個注意力的消失，『念』的捨棄。

藍石  20:28:56

二禪注意力還在，只是被吸住，但是三禪注意力沒了，因此只剩下不會動的覺，純然的覺，此時只要一動念，馬上會被擠出三禪，掉回二禪。

藍石  20:29:45

所以二禪和三禪有這個很大的差異，注意力的有無，也就是最後一念是否還在。

藍石  20:30:55

如果你要判斷你是在三禪還是二禪，你就在你覺得已經入定的狀態下，動一下心念，如果功態情境沒有變，那你的狀態就不是三禪。因為三禪只要動一下，就會馬上功態情境轉變，會有一個轉變的功態發生，會掉回二禪。

藍石  20:31:59

三禪是出現兔髓的地方，但是兔髓只有出現一陣子，可能幾個月，然後就從此沒有了，因此兔髓不是一個常態性的存在，最後一念的捨棄，才是常態性的存在。

 

In addition, there are some articles on the four meditations and eight meditations, which are posted as follows, to prove that what I practice is completely based on the classics, not the so-called self-created system

Bluestone 20:23:07
The process of turning the second meditation into the third meditation is sometimes gradual, and it will drag on for a long time, and sometimes it is a one-second switch. There is a phenomenon in the switching of this second, that is, when the light sense and body sense are still still there, suddenly a switch, the sense of body suddenly disappears, and the sense of light suddenly changes to another At this time, you can know that it is a kind of switching from the second jhana to the third jhana.
Bluestone 20:24:58
Of course, the state of consciousness will also be switched, from the original state of consciousness that can barely move to a state of completely immobile, the state of consciousness will stop in a state of motionlessness, but it will not feel bored, and there is no sense of time, but people Is awake, the subjective feeling may be only a minute or two, but in fact, an hour may have passed in one fell swoop.
Bluestone 20:27:40
Although the second jhana has the phenomenon of magnetic attraction, that is, the attention is firmly absorbed by the light sense, and the distracting thoughts will not fly out of control like the first jhana. Now, the attention is still there, and the third jhana is just the beginning of "resignation", so one of the characteristics of the second jhana turning into the third jhana is the disappearance of this attention and the abandonment of "mindfulness".
Bluestone 20:28:56
The attention of the second jhāna is still there, but it is absorbed, but the attention of the third jhāna is gone, so there is only a sense of immobility, pure awareness. At this time, as long as you think about it, you will immediately be squeezed out of the third jhāna and fall back. Two Zen.
Bluestone 20:29:45
So the second jhana and the third jhana have this big difference, whether there is attention or not, that is, whether the last thought is still there.
Bluestone 20:30:55
If you want to judge whether you are in the third jhāna or the second jhāna, just move your mind when you feel that you have entered the state of concentration. If the state of your practice has not changed, then your state is not the third jhāna. Because as long as the third jhana moves once, the state of the state will change immediately, and a changed state will occur, and it will fall back to the second jhāna.
Bluestone 20:31:59
The third meditation is the place where the rabbit marrow appears, but the rabbit marrow only appears for a while, maybe a few months, and then disappears. Therefore, the rabbit marrow is not a normal existence. The abandonment of the last thought is a normal existence.

 

所以希望那些暗示說我個人練的系統是『自創系統』的人，請你更正你的發言，不要在不懂的情況下，亂講別人是『自創系統』

 

So I hope those who suggest that the system I practice personally is a "self-created system", please correct your speech, and don't talk nonsense about other people's "self-created system" when you don't understand

[awaken]

關於對自發功的誤解，我不反對有些老師刻意把自發功導向大動作，同樣的，我也批評這類的老師，因為這樣的做法，同樣『背道而馳』，不管是『壓抑』或是『放縱』，同樣都是錯。

 

所以我說我不是教自發功的老師，我是教如何從自發功導向丹道的老師，而這個轉向，『如實觀』在裡面站了絕對的重要地位。

 

Regarding the misunderstanding of spontaneous gong, I do not object to some teachers who deliberately direct spontaneous gong to big movements. Similarly, I also criticize such teachers, because this kind of practice is also "the opposite", whether it is "repression" or "indulgence" ', is also wrong.

So I say that I am not a teacher who teaches spontaneous gong, I am a teacher who teaches how to lead from spontaneous gong to alchemy, and this turning, "truthful view" has an absolutely important position in it.

 

有些人對自發功有刻板印象，把自發功一竿子打翻一條船，認為所有的自發功老師都會把學生導向狂野的大動作，我必須嚴正的反對，這是錯誤的印象，請你更正你的發言。

 

Some people have a stereotyped impression of spontaneous gong. They overturn a boat with a single pole. They think that all spontaneous gong teachers will lead students to wild and big moves. I must strictly oppose it. This is a wrong impression, please correct it. your speech.

 

有的人甚至說自發功的來源是情緒化的，這一點，我也嚴正的反對，也同樣請你更正，自發功的來源絕對不是情緒化的，而是如實觀。

 

有什麼就表達出什麼，誠實的面對真正的自己，不管這個自己是什麼，都要能接受，這才是自發功轉向丹道的關鍵。

 

而兩種極端都是錯的，一個極端是用意念去控制氣的走向，這是壓抑的做法，另外一個極端是放任自己的雜念去帶動一切，這是放縱的做法，這兩種都是錯的，只有『中觀』加上『如實觀』才能走向真正的丹道，而這一點，則需要覺察和自我誠實。

 

Some people even say that the source of spontaneous gong is emotional. I am also sternly opposed to this point, and I also ask you to correct it. The source of spontaneous gong is definitely not emotional, but truthful view.

Express whatever you have, and face your true self honestly. No matter what this self is, you must accept it. This is the key to turning self-government into the way of alchemy.

Both extremes are wrong. One extreme is to use thoughts to control the direction of qi, which is a method of repression, and the other extreme is to let one’s distracting thoughts drive everything. This is a method of indulgence. Both are wrong. Yes, only "Middle Way" plus "Truthful Viewing" can lead to the true alchemy path, and this requires awareness and self-honesty.

 

也有人說，自發功最後停止下來，學生只能體會到深度的靜止，這一點也是錯的，完全的錯誤。

 

第一，自發功不是只有動而已，外不動內動，所以當身體沒有移動之後，氣機還是在動的。

第二，當你把自發功練透，不是只有身體靜止，還會包含意識的恍惚，在丹道當中忽略『恍惚』，『渺冥』，是沒有資格說自己練的是丹道，因為『恍惚』是化陰的重點。

 

所以真正練透，絕對不是只有動作的停止，真正的練透，會產生陽生現象。

 

Some people also say that when spontaneous gong finally stops, students can only experience deep stillness. This is also wrong, completely wrong.

First, spontaneous gong is not just movement, it does not move outside, so when the body does not move, the energy is still moving.

Second, when you thoroughly practice spontaneous gong, not only the body is still, but also the trance of consciousness. If you ignore "trance" and "miaoming" in the alchemy process, you are not qualified to say that you are practicing alchemy, because " Trance" is the key point of yin transformation.

Therefore, if you really practice thoroughly, it is definitely not just the cessation of movement. If you practice thoroughly, there will be a phenomenon of yang generation.

[awaken]

有些人認為自發功賦予老師權力，正好相反，我看到的自發功正好反對老師的權力，反而是『控制型的搬運法』非常強調老師的權力，甚至和龐大的金錢相結合。

 

自發功不需要老師，只需要一顆『誠實的』心靈，誠實的面對自己的身體和氣感，我不知道這種對自己誠實的態度，為什麼會被解釋成賦予老師權力，這顯然不是事實。

 

我從2014年開始在ＱＱ教學，教的內容不是自發功，而是如何從自發功導向丹道，過程中，我從未收取過任何學費，而且我也從不鼓勵學生刻意去狂野的做出動作，我教的內容，一直都是『如實觀』。

 

請問『如實觀察』自己的一切，為什麼會給老師權力呢？面對自己的內在，為什麼會給老師權力呢？這顯然不是事實。

 

事實的真相是，不管是『壓抑』或者『放縱』這類後天的干預，才是錯誤的道路，這類運用各種『密法』導向特定目標的練法，才是問題所在。

 

Some people think that spontaneous gong empowers teachers. On the contrary, what I see is spontaneous gong that opposes the power of teachers. On the contrary, the "control-type transfer method" emphasizes the power of teachers and even combines it with huge amounts of money.

Spontaneous gong doesn't need a teacher, it just needs an "honest" mind, honestly facing one's body and qi. I don't know why this kind of honest attitude towards myself is interpreted as empowering the teacher, this is obviously not true .

I have been teaching at QQ since 2014. The content I teach is not spontaneous gong, but how to go from spontaneous gong to Dan Dao. During the process, I have never charged any tuition fees, and I have never encouraged students to deliberately go wild. Action, the content of my teaching has always been "seeing as it is".

I would like to ask you to "observe" everything about yourself, why do you give the teacher power? Facing your inner self, why give the teacher power? This is clearly not true.

The truth of the matter is that acquired interventions such as "repression" or "indulgence" are the wrong path, and this type of practice that uses various "esoteric methods" to lead to specific goals is the problem.

[awaken]

有人提到有人利用自發功在開氣功診所，這一點我不清楚怎麼回事，我也不知道這個人到底是誰，我只知道，你們似乎把我和那個人畫上等號，你們用一種有色眼鏡在看我，在攻擊我，這是我看到的事實。

 

我沒有教自發功，我也沒有利用自發功在開氣功診所，我做的事情，就是在ＱＱ開班，教人如何從自發功導向丹道，而在這裡，我所做的，就是澄清，讓初學者知道，兩個極端所練出來的現象，都是錯的，不管是刻意引發自發功，或者刻意操控氣感成為小周天。

 

Someone mentioned that someone was using spontaneous gong to open a qigong clinic. I don't know what's going on. I don't know who this person is. All I know is that you seem to equate me with that person. The tinted glasses are looking at me and attacking me, this is what I see.

I didn't teach Spontaneous Gong, and I didn't use Spontaneous Gong to open a qigong clinic. What I did was to open a class in QQ to teach people how to lead from Spontaneous Gong to Dan Dao. Here, what I did was to clarify, Let beginners know that the phenomena produced by the two extremes are wrong, whether it is deliberately triggering spontaneous gong, or deliberately manipulating the sense of qi to become a small Zhoutian.