Zhan Zhuang - Grounded or Ungrounded

[Shadow_self]

15 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

I agree with you, if what was said is accurate is up for debate. 

 

As to his comments, I certainly understand he is speaking the truth as he sees it, based on what he has learned in his system.

 

Certainly it is partially true...Excess Yin Qi cannot be generated in the body, it must come from the enviornment...but there are things to consider

 

You understand the the LDT is essentially a Yin field that Yang is pulled into when a series of conditions are set up

 

Now what you would have to explain here is, when you connect to the earth...How is it that you expect that  (a) excess Yin Qi be pulled in, rather than  (B) Yang Qi displaced outward by way of the earth's Yin field

 

What would dictate whether (a) or (b) occurs?

[Uncle Fester]

3 hours ago, almaxy said:

do you guys have any advice?

I'd think the last thing you'd want is more advice from anonymous dudes on the internet. But your best local Chinese Medicine practitioner might be able to get you sorted. I hope you feel better.

 

 

[Iliketurtles]

4 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Certainly it is partially true...Excess Yin Qi cannot be generated in the body, it must come from the enviornment...but there are things to consider

 

You understand the the LDT is essentially a Yin field that Yang is pulled into when a series of conditions are set up

 

Now what you would have to explain here is, when you connect to the earth...How is it that you expect that  (a) excess Yin Qi be pulled in, rather than  (B) Yang Qi displaced outward by way of the earth's Yin field

 

What would dictate whether (a) or (b) occurs?

 

I am not a metaphysicist, I only know what was taught to me.

 

If it's wrong as you state then so be it.

[freeform]

9 hours ago, almaxy said:

Thanks, you are right, now I need to be honest with you guys, I messed it up, I'm so dumb.

 

Yesterday I did Zhan Zhuang for like 15 minutes, then I decided to let my chi flow, doing some Zi Fa Gong, and after that I did 30min of seated meditation.

 

The problem is that after the zi fa gong I started feeling disconfort in my chest and my heart was pulsating very fast, I had insomnia and today the symptom persists, my heart is beating faster, do you guys have any advice?

 

I swear I won't go back to practice without a teacher, just help me I'm so dumb, what should I do?

Don’t worry - stop doing all internal practice and switch to gentle exercise instead (brisk walks, stretching, maybe a jog). Things will settle within a couple of weeks. You’ll be fine most likely  

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

9 hours ago, almaxy said:

what should I do?

Find a teacher 

[Shadow_self]

7 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

I am not a metaphysicist, I only know what was taught to me.

 

If it's wrong as you state then so be it.

I see...so please help me out here

 

Are you implying that John did not explain these mechanics of the practice to Jim/Kostas? and that Jim/Kostas did not explain it to anyone who they passed the information onto?

 

Or?

[Iliketurtles]

Just now, Shadow_self said:

I see...so please help me out here

 

Are you implying that John did not explain these mechanics of the practice to Jim/Kostas? and that Jim/Kostas did not explain it to anyone who they passed the information onto?

 

Or?

 

Not my intention to imply anything, just that what I was taught seems to disagree with your understandings. 

 

If John is wrong and you are right I couldn't say with certainty. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Jesus Christ some dude fucked himself up, don’t turn this into a Mo Pai thread guys 😂😂😂

[Earl Grey]

31 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Jesus Christ some dude fucked himself up, don’t turn this into a Mo Pai thread guys 😂😂😂

 

I thought I was going crazy since that other thread seemed to go on and on and then I went here and saw the same thing...

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

Don’t worry - stop doing all internal practice and switch to gentle exercise instead (brisk walks, stretching, maybe a jog). Things will settle within a couple of weeks. You’ll be fine most likely  

 

I think he should seek medical help too from a qualified TCM doctor, ideally one familiar with what he practiced. His health, even if it can recover after stopping for a couple weeks, could also have some damage that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later and may not even heal without the right treatment such as herbs.

[Shadow_self]

5 minutes ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

Not my intention to imply anything, just that what I was taught seems to disagree with your understandings. 

 

If John is wrong and you are right I couldn't say with certainty. 

 

Like I said....You don't hear me saying surplus Yin does not come from the environment...the devil is in the details however

 

Allow me to demonstrate one such example

 

"No. You gather both yin and yang, because the two always go
together, struggling, one always trying to complement the other But
inside your dantien, you put only yang ch'i. The yin chi goes elsewhere
in the body It is useless to you before you finish Level Four'"

 

Followed by

 

When we are finished with Level Three, we send
our yang down to the hui yin. There it gathers as much yin as we
have sent down yang. After a time, maybe even months or years, yin
and yang rise together

 

Hold on a second? I thought you already gathered Yin with Yang? If so, then why would you need to gather as much? It should already be there right?

 

And also..where is the "there" that the supposed level 1 Yin goes? If it was already at the hui yin post level 1, there would be no need to gather anymore, right?

 

You see I cannot say it is "wrong"...I would require answers to those questions (and more)...I can say it is conflicting information, and partial/incomplete information...

 

To state correct/incorrect...More details are required...details which I note are absent from any description by Jim, Kostas or what is supposedly John

 

Also there is this to think about...

 

Kostas said that the Dantien is the lowest chakra capable of storing Yang, and that the Hui Yin is strictly related to Yin. Again there are details here that are unequivocally incorrect

 

The lower dan tien is not a chakra..it is a frequency below the chakra system, that has some tethers into it.

 

So like I said before...There are inconsistencies, misunderstandings, some correct details, some incorrect details and so forth.

 

 

[freeform]

52 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I think he should seek medical help too from a qualified TCM doctor, ideally one familiar with what he practiced.

 

Absolutely. Though unfortunately such TCM doctors are pretty rare.

 

We're going to be seeing a lot more deviation related issues in the coming years - and knowledgeable medical practitioners in this space are really needed.

 

 

[awaken]

20 hours ago, freeform said:

If you’re at the stage where you’re still having spontaneous movements and Zifa gong reactions - then you’re not able to generate meaningful levels of yang qi yet. 

 

When you do manage it, it’s pretty obvious what happens when you’re barefoot. No guessing required  

 

If spontaneous movements happen a lot to you, then it’s not a bad idea to touch the ground after practice to disperse pathogenic qi.

 

and @almaxy - I would echo what @Earl Grey mentioned. Rather than collecting bits and pieces from various sources, it’s best to find a teacher or a systematic approach to Neigong training. 
 

For example, I personally would never recommend starting with ZZ as a beginner… but for some teachers that’s the very first thing you learn. Different systems handle things differently. You can’t mix and match systems - that’s a bad idea.

 

 

 

 

很顯然的，你對自發功真的是完全的無知，我練功已經超過三十年了，我很清楚自發功整個流程的變化是什麼，但是你完全不知道。

 

你對於身體和周遭氣場的交流，完全無知，這樣的程度，你怎麼好意思在網路上給人建議呢？

 

自發功的動作多或少，不是你想像的那個樣子。

 

我不想自我推銷，你如果想瞭解我練到哪裡，你翻一翻我寫過的文章，如果你真的有練的話，你應該會看得懂一點點，除非你真的完全沒練，只是盯著呼吸看而已。

 

 

[awaken]

18 hours ago, almaxy said:

 

I know, but where I live there is no teacher so I'm trying to find out things for myself and I know it can be dangerous, that's why I'm asking a lot of question hahaha, but thanks for the advice again

 

 

 

Is this the same for qigong deviations? If I create a qigong deviation in my chest area(faster heartbeat, discomfort in the chest/heart area, insomnia), should I ground myself to drain this excess energy?

 

 

 

By letting the chi flow you mean to just stand still and let the chi flow on it's own, which will create spontneous movement, correct?

 

如果你找的是不懂陰陽，只會吹牛的老師，氣堵在上半身，幾乎是一定會發生的倒霉事。

 

真正要排出因為錯誤練法而造成的胸部不適，不是赤腳，而是捨棄錯誤的方法，錯誤的老師，因為正確的練法，不會讓你把氣堵在上半身。

 

身體動或者不動，不是重點，重點是你有沒有做到鬆靜自然，你有沒有干預氣的運行。身體如果要你動，你就跟著動，身體如果不要你動，你就不要刻意去動。

 

你可以找出我在這個論壇寫的所有文章，這樣你會比較有概念。

[freeform]

I'd also add that the likelihood of causing major long-term issues from a single practice session or even a week or two of incorrect practice is unlikely in my experience (unless there's been a lot of qi emission thrown in.) Over-worrying yourself does harm too.

 

The key is to immediately drop all internal practice (even the nice gentle mindfulness type stuff). And don't start again until you have a teacher that understands 100% what's happened to you previously as well as TCM diagnosis from a competent practitioner.

[awaken]

13 hours ago, almaxy said:

Thanks, you are right, now I need to be honest with you guys, I messed it up, I'm so dumb.

 

Yesterday I did Zhan Zhuang for like 15 minutes, then I decided to let my chi flow, doing some Zi Fa Gong, and after that I did 30min of seated meditation.

 

The problem is that after the zi fa gong I started feeling disconfort in my chest and my heart was pulsating very fast, I had insomnia and today the symptom persists, my heart is beating faster, do you guys have any advice?

 

I swear I won't go back to practice without a teacher, just help me I'm so dumb, what should I do?

 

 

你如果要練自發功，兩個小時是一定要的，否則沒有練透，本來氣就會卡在上半身，所以說問題不是赤腳，或者自發功，而是你對於『火候』根本一無所知，你對於『覺察』根本一無所知。

 

即使你不練自發功，你改練純站樁，或者純打坐，同樣的情況依舊會發生，只要你只練了少少幾分鐘，而不是真正『練透』，你還是會有同樣的問題。

 

你懂嗎？

 

問題是你對『陰陽』的無知，而不是方法。

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

12 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Can’t help anymore.

你不懂陰陽，本來就幫不上忙

[awaken]

你根本不需要聽那些半吊子胡說八道，我就是在這裡寫下紀錄，自發功是非常強的功法，而且只有有天分的人，才有能力可以發動，太過愚笨的人是沒辦法練的，我教過幾百位學生，太笨的，太自以為是的，根本就學不起來。

 

 

自發功非常強悍，因此當你開始練自發功的時候，你一定要給足夠的時間，兩個小時一定是需要的，自發功非常忌諱只練五分鐘，然後就縮手不練，這樣會導致『暈車』，也就是氣太強，卡在頭上，我覺得很誇張的是，你，一個想練自發功的人，竟然連這一點基本的認知都沒有，你就練下去，然後在論壇上胡說什麼自發功的問題，光是這一點，我就必須要在這邊留下紀錄，以免那些對自發功無知的人，傳遞更多的謠言出去。

 

如果你要練自發功，你就要去找相關的書，建立相關的概念，最起碼，你要把兩小時的時間空出來，而且你不能隨便去控制你的氣，你不能用自發功把氣發動了之後，然後又用你到處亂學的靜坐法來練，這樣是自找麻煩。

 

不過你已經蠢到把這種事情給幹了出來，我真的覺得你太誇張了，既然你已經蠢到幹了出來，你也不用去找中醫，我跟你保證，中醫程度比我還差。

 

你要做的事情，就是找一塊大草皮，兩個小時的時間，把自發功練透。

 

 

[awaken]

11 minutes ago, freeform said:

I'd also add that the likelihood of causing major long-term issues from a single practice session or even a week or two of incorrect practice is unlikely in my experience (unless there's been a lot of qi emission thrown in.) Over-worrying yourself does harm too.

 

The key is to immediately drop all internal practice (even the nice gentle mindfulness type stuff). And don't start again until you have a teacher that understands 100% what's happened to you previously as well as TCM diagnosis from a competent practitioner.

 

從你這段話，就可以看出，你對氣，完全無知

[freeform]

13 minutes ago, awaken said:

很顯然的，你對自發功真的是完全的無知，我練功已經超過三十年了，我很清楚自發功整個流程的變化是什麼，但是你完全不知道。

Seems like all that spazzing around has made you a little angry and emotionally reactive  

 

30 years more and maybe you’ll calm down and learn to be respectful with your fellow cultivators.

 

Until then - I wish you the best in your cultivation - but I will no longer be giving you the benefit of the doubt… and the translate feature is going back into retirement.

[freeform]

I don’t know the official rules of the forum - but constantly calling people ‘stupid’ and advising someone who’s got deviation issues to do two hours of zifagong wouldn’t sit well with me if I was running the forum.

[Earl Grey]

20 minutes ago, awaken said:

你不懂陰陽，本來就幫不上忙

 

I'm not even going to respond to that level of arrogance and self-certainty.

[awaken]

11 minutes ago, freeform said:

Seems like all that spazzing around has made you a little angry and emotionally reactive  

 

30 years more and maybe you’ll calm down and learn to be respectful with your fellow cultivators.

 

Until then - I wish you the best in your cultivation - but I will no longer be giving you the benefit of the doubt… and the translate feature is going back into retirement.

 

 

你說了那麼多謊話，都不會不好意思嗎？

 

你對你不懂的事情任意評論，給一些錯誤的建議，這是在害人，不是在幫人

 

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, freeform said:

I don’t know the official rules of the forum - but constantly calling people ‘stupid’ and advising someone who’s got deviation issues to do two hours of zifagong wouldn’t sit well with me if I was running the forum.

 

The best part is that I don't need to block...I just ignore even though I can read Chinese, but I'm not going to even talk with someone who expects me to Google translate her posts without posting in both languages since she can use translate alongside her original Chinese too.

 

A general rule I have for talking with others: don't make me cross extra bridges to understand you, meet me halfway or don't expect me to join an invitation. I already have to deal with language and cultural barriers with some teachers, and she ain't my teacher.

[awaken]

4 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

I'm not even going to respond to that level of arrogance and self-certainty.

 

 

如果你把事實的描述，當成傲慢，那我也只能尊重你個人的情緒反應了