Encounters with the Nagual

[gendao]

The proof of the pudding...

 

Years ago I did adopt one practice from the guy's repertoire and followed it on a daily basis for a while. Namely, his way of looking in a certain specific manner so as to "shut off the inner dialog" while walking. This is supposed, according to DJ/CC, to "flood the tonal" with so much information at any given moment that it will be overwhelmed and have no choice but to shut up -- and that's when the nagual will surface. Well, it is absolutely correct, and I don't know of any other "meditation technique" whose efficiency is instant like that. I can switch to that mode in seconds and maintain it indefinitely, it is beyond effortless. Among other things, my physical eyesight improved considerably due to the practice. How can I "prove" this? There's no way to prove this. DO it and see. Don't do it and there's no way you (the generic you) can ever know. You can have an "opinion," e.g. that "it needs to be proved" or any other opinion for that matter. It's like the rest of the pudding -- you either eat it or you eat its shadows for all eternity and form endless opinions about the pudding, which are shadows of shadows of the pudding. Logical proof is not nutritious, and nutritious puddings are not logical.

Well, that is absolutely proof for you then.

 

I would be very interested to learn this technique, btw. Because I am trying to make the paradigm shift from perceiving to being...and need some help. Also, I would like to improve my eyesight as well, so I'd appreciate any such tips.

[宁]

he could fake many things, and am sure he did, and he mixed up some of the elements of the teaching, maybe on purpose. but there are a lot of things that he couldnt fake. and they are there... BUT please, im not as much pro CC, im pro learning from whatever source life puts ahead of you

[rain]

Edited May 6, 2008 by rain

[Taomeow]

Vortex, Rain,

 

here's how I remember it (and still do it when walking alone -- it can't be done if you're not alone, at least not by a beginner; nor in a public place with more than a few people around. The beach works great for me, here they are miles long; before I moved here, I used to just pick a straight, long suburban street close to where I lived, there were seldom any pedestrians there save for an occasional jogger or dog walker; or else I'd do it in a park -- again, a long alley in front of you, or anything straightforward and with an open view of the horizon is one of the "props") --

 

so, OK, here goes. You start walking and you keep your eyes loosely fixed at any one point that falls on an imaginary trajectory arching from your walking feet to the horizon. "Loosely fixed" is a paradox of sorts -- you don't actually "fix" your gaze the way you would if you were looking "at" something you want to see or "staring" or "focusing" -- you do nothing of the kind, instead you sort of maintain a floating focus, if the space was a body of water then your point would be like a buoy on the far horizon, anchored but not stiff. You need to become aware of the fact that your eyesight is comprised of "central" and "peripheral" vision that are quite different in what they "normally" do, and keep being aware of your peripheral vision -- while never losing awareness of the central point. Peripheral vision works fuzzily, you don't look for or at anything at all, you don't see any precise objects with it -- instead, you let all of them float by, never forgetting to keep noticing the center (at the far horizon) and the periphery on your left and the periphery on your right simultaneously. After a while (soon, or eventually, depending on how often and for how long you do it once you "get it"), your peripheral vision expands dramatically. At first you may find you can only notice "left plus center" or "right plus center" simultaneously, but then it will be "left, center, right simultaneously," and then "upper left, central left, bottom left, horizon center, upper right, central right, bottom right" simultaneously, and then more... and then you start getting "flooded." You see the ground, every crack and pebble and blade of grass, and all the houses and trees and all the clouds and birds (you will start noticing a helluva lot of birds that you never knew existed, and other stuff that is usually too fleeting to notice) on your left, your right, brushing against your ears and temples, here and gone, changed instantly into a new kind of infinite multitude of "things" and images and impressions. The space will become... hmm, more stereoscopic than what you're used to. More real, more complete, but also eerie. That's the beginning of it.

 

Physiologically speaking, peripheral vision is linked to the unconscious mind, so placing your awareness there will touch not only all the things you usually see unconsciously and bring them all into your consciousness, but it will also touch your own unconscious and start establishing some connections thence into your consciousness. This will do things to your emotions. (This is a warning.) Let it. This will also do things to your eyes. You might start feeling all kinds of stuff happening to your eyes, and they might start tearing. Let them. I'd be curious if you tried it and told me if anything worked, and if it did, how it went and what you felt.

 

I was re-reading "Tales of Power" once this discussion started and found the technique described there briefly (I'm giving you a somewhat more detailed version) -- I think it was described in other books too, but I forget which -- and I found out that you were also supposed to do things with your hands while at it, something mudra-like, not necessarily a specific mudra so much as placing your hands and fingers in all kinds of unusual, uncommon positions and remaining aware of them simultaneously with your visual awareness. This I either did a long time ago and then found unnecessary, or never did, I don't remember. So, you can try doing it like that, or you can "add" this if the open focus thing isn't enough to facilitate a drastic shift of your perceptions and your consciousness; but for me it worked without involving the hands too.

 

There's similar things in Chinese MA systems, and not only Chinese -- my taekwondo teacher definitely looked at the world like that much of the time, and noticed absolutely everything, as though he had 360 degree eyesight like a freakin' dragonfly. I remember once we met him at a restaurant and I introduced him to my husband, who later said, "your master has the eyes of a cold-blooded murderer." I never saw his eyes this way, but I guess that's something that might occur to an outside observer when he looks into the eyes that just about lack something "only human" about them while instead maintain something that is "not quite human." I have no idea what my own eyes look like in this mode, I never show it to anyone...

[rain]

Edited May 7, 2008 by rain

[宁]

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE "FLYERS" YA'ALL

 

 

"The portion of the universe accessible to us is the operative field of two radically different kinds of awareness. One, which includes plants and animals, and also human beings, is a whitish awareness;

it is young, a generator of energy. The other one is an infinitely older and more parasitic awareness, possessor of an immense quantity of knowledge.

 

"Besides men and other beings that inhabit this Earth, there is in the universe an immense range of inorganic entities. They are present among us, and occasionally they are visible. We call them ghosts or apparitions. One of those species, which seers describe as enormous, black, flying shapes, arrived here at some point from the depths of cosmos, and found an oasis of awareness in our world. They have specialized in 'milking us'."

 

"That is incredible!" I exclaimed.

 

"I know, but it is the pure and terrifying truth. Have you never wondered about people's energetic and emotional ups and downs? It is the predator, who shows up periodically to pick up his quota of awareness. They only leave enough so that we may continue living, and sometimes not even that."

 

"What do you mean?"

 

"Sometimes they take too much, and the person becomes gravely ill, and may even die."

 

I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

 

"Do you mean we are being eaten alive?" I asked.

 

He smiled.

 

"Well, they don't literally 'eat' us, what they do is a vibratory transfer. Awareness is energy and they can align with us. Since by nature they are always hungry, and we, on the other hand, exude light, the result of that alignment can be described as energy robbery."

 

"But why do they do it?"

"Because, on the cosmic plane, energy is the most powerful currency, and we all want it, and we humans are a vital race, stuffed with nourishment. Every living being eats other beings, and the most powerful always comes out the winner. Who said man is at the top of the food chain? That idea could only have come from a human being. To inorganic beings, we are the prey."

 

I commented that it was inconceivable to me that entities that are even more aware than us could be predatory to that extent.

 

He replied:

 

"But what do you think you're doing when you eat a lettuce or a beefsteak? You are eating life! Your sensibility is hypocritical. Cosmic predators are no more and no less cruel than we are. When a stronger race consumes another, inferior one, it is helping its energy to evolve.

 

"I have already told you that in the universe there is only war. The confrontations of men are a reflection of what happens out there. It is normal for one species to try to consume another; a warrior does not complain about it, and tries to survive."

 

"And how do they consume us?"

 

"Through our emotions, properly directed by the internal dialogue. They have designed our social environment in such a way that we are constantly shooting off waves of emotions, which are immediately absorbed. Best of all, they like attacks of ego; for them, that is an exquisite mouthful. Such emotions are the same anywhere in the universe where they occur, and they have learned how to metabolize them.

 

"Some consume us for our lust, anger, or fear; others prefer more delicate feelings, like love or fondness. But they are all after the same thing. Normally, they attack us around the area of the head, heart, or stomach, where we store the thickest part of our energy."

[gendao]

[sheng zhen]

My teacher compares the reality of entities to the world of microorganisms. They are there to break down the trash we create, and they are represented on every level of existence. He say that we have two major strands of beings; creative and destructive. Humans are basicly part of the creative. And what is normally regarded as negative entities is part of the destructive, toghether with bacteria, virus, mushrooms and beings that break down other things.

 

In our body most of our cells are bacteria, both good and bad. They have their own agenda and do their own thing. That means we consist mostly of beings who are not really "ours". We are a grand orchestra of beings, good and bad, and different levels of consciousness that cooperate.

 

If we get "attacked" by entities eating us alive there is no need to play victim because we are a just as important part of the whole game. If we create a lot of crap, the crap needs to be destroyed. When we dont create crap the destroyers go elsewhere to find crap to eat.

 

I totally agree with Vortex that shiny happy people full of love still attracts entities with the crap they create from their blindspots. Being full of love is no safeguard against crap-production, hahaha. Our blindspots are still active. I am actually very happy that there are beings to destroy the things we do wrong. Its just as an important job as creating.

[宁]

nice thoughts

[宁]

Another difficult part to understand:

 

"From the sorcerers' point of view, the object of grouping themselves is to ensure their passage to another level of attention, since without energy mass there is no flight."

 

"Do you mean that solitary warriors don't have a chance?"

"No. What I'm saying is that a party can go further.

 

"Imagine that you live in a colony of gregarious caterpillars who are in a state of metamorphosis. Suddenly, one of the cocoons breaks open, and its resident leaves in a momentary explosion of light and color. The sensation you're left with is that the caterpillar disappeared. For the caterpillar itself, on the other hand, its true life as a butterfly will have begun. Now then: A solitary caterpillar is more likely to end up in the stomach of a bird.

"In the same way, the ulterior objective of warriors is the definitive jump to the third attention; the liberation from all forms of interpretation. The quantity of energy that is necessary for this can only be achieved by means of a special consensus of critical mass, in order to generate the necessary agreements to compact the energy.

 

"However, since many parties are not able to reach the completion of their energy, naguals have built an inhabitable oasis inside the second attention, an enormous edifice of intent in a remote region of dreaming, where seers go alone or in small groups. I call it 'the dome of intent', because its visible form is dome-shaped, but Don Juan preferred to call it 'the cemetery of the naguals'."

 

"Why did he call it that?"

 

"Because staying in that space to live implies the sorcerer's literal death. In a sense not at all allegorical, it is a cemetery. Although those who choose that destiny have achieved the expansion of awareness for an enormous period of time, they will have to do without it when the moment arrives.

 

"So, for many sorcerers, the immediate goal of the party is the dome of the naguals, in the hope of being able to use it as a transit port where they can accumulate provisions for a great expedition. To get there, it is not necessary that the whole group leave at the same time. Sometimes, warriors choose to go one by one. In that case, they can partially return, as long as the totality of the group's energetic structure has not been completed.

 

"As you can see, the challenges warriors are involved in during their human existence are barely the prelude; the really tremendous stuff comes later. Don't ask what they dedicate themselves to while they remain in that world; it would sound like a fairy tale to you. The important thing is: All their activities are governed by the Rule."

 

I commented that, keeping in mind the goal of the party, the Rule could be interpreted as the prehispanic equivalent of what other cultures called 'divine laws', that is, a group of normative regulations designed for man's salvation.

He replied:

 

"It is not the same, because it does not come from a supreme being. The mechanism of the Rule is impersonal, it lacks kindness or compassion. It has no other objective than its own continuity.

 

"Allowing themselves to be seduced by the analogies, the ancient seers made the error of identifying the Rule with their particular interpretations, and wound up worshipping it and erecting temples in its honor. The new seers rejected all that. When they explored stalking, they dusted off the essence of sorcery and rediscovered the goal of total freedom, which does not resemble religious goals in any way. It erased in them the fascination for the human mold, but it had a secondary effect that I have already explained to you: The wild enthusiasm of the old seers was substituted by furtive and suspicious attitudes.

 

"In the end, the effect stalking had on the nagual parties was to betray their initial motives. In time, the goal of total freedom was reduced to rhetoric. Almost all the sorcerers of Don Juan's lineage preferred the flight to the second attention. With the exception of the nagual Julian Osorio, none of them wanted to be deprived of the adventure and ecstasy of visiting the dome of the naguals, constructed of intent, located on one of the stars of the constellation of Orion."

[宁]

"If you want to know yourselves, be aware of your personal death. It's not negotiable, it is the only thing that you can seriously own. Everything else may fail, but not death, you can take that as a fact. Learn how to use it to produce real effects in your lives.

 

"Also, stop believing in fairy tales. Nobody needs you out there. None of us is so important that it justifies inventing something as fantastic as immortality. A humble sorcerer knows that his destiny is the same as that of any other living being on Earth.

 

So, instead of having false hopes, he works concretely and with great effort to escape the human condition, and to reach the only exit we have: The breaking of our perceptual barrier"

 

"In the view of such ignorance, it is normal for an ordinary man to feel panic regarding his end, and try to deal with it with prayers and medicines, or confuse himself with the noise of the world.

 

"Human beings have an egocentric and extremely simplistic vision of the universe. We never stop to consider our destiny as transitory beings. However, our obsession with the future betrays us.

 

"The sincerity or cynicism of our convictions makes no difference, because deep down we all know what is going to happen. That's why we all leave signs behind. We build pyramids, skyscrapers, make children, write books, or, at the very least, we draw our initials in the bark of a tree. It is the ancestral fear, the silent knowledge of death, which is behind that subconscious impulse.

 

"But there is one group of human beings who have been able to face that fear. As opposed to ordinary people, sorcerers eagerly seek out any situation that will take them beyond social interpretations. What better opportunity than their own extinction! Thanks to their frequent excursions into the unknown, they know that death is not natural; it is magical. Natural things are subject to laws, but death is not. To die is always a personal event, and for that sole reason,' it is an act of power.

 

"Death is the gateway to infinity. A door made to the exact measure of each of us, which we will all pass through someday, returning to our origin. Our lack of understanding impels us to see it as a common reducer. But no, there is nothing common about it"

[doc benway]

My teacher compares the reality of entities to the world of microorganisms. They are there to break down the trash we create, and they are represented on every level of existence. He say that we have two major strands of beings; creative and destructive. Humans are basicly part of the creative. And what is normally regarded as negative entities is part of the destructive, toghether with bacteria, virus, mushrooms and beings that break down other things.

I really like the idea of the entities being analogous to microorganisms, that has an interesting feel to it. I would differ on categorizing organisms, however. I look at all organisms as being both creative and destructive. Human beings are primarily destructive from the perspective of just about every organism on earth but other humans, I would imagine. Creatvie and destructive are relative terms.

 

The cycle of creation and destruction pervades life. Within us are millions of cells that do little but destroy other cells, both native and invaders. Without them we'd be dead. From our perspective they're creative because they keep us alive, but from their target's perspective they're destructive. Other cells do little but create. Yet from the planet's perspective they are destructive because they are creating more humans, the single most destructive force on our planet.

[sheng zhen]

I really like the idea of the entities being analogous to microorganisms, that has an interesting feel to it. I would differ on categorizing organisms, however. I look at all organisms as being both creative and destructive. Human beings are primarily destructive from the perspective of just about every organism on earth but other humans, I would imagine. Creatvie and destructive are relative terms.

 

The cycle of creation and destruction pervades life. Within us are millions of cells that do little but destroy other cells, both native and invaders. Without them we'd be dead. From our perspective they're creative because they keep us alive, but from their target's perspective they're destructive. Other cells do little but create. Yet from the planet's perspective they are destructive because they are creating more humans, the single most destructive force on our planet.

Yea, you're right, its very relative. That actually gives more fuel to the point I wanted to make, entities are not "negative" if we see the bigger picture and take responsibility for our own spot in it. We are all part of the big game

[宁]

energy cannot be destroyed. hence, the humans are a transforming force. they are too asleep to do it on purpose. they are made to do it. by who, i dont know, maybe it has something to do with the food chain that we are part of.

 

some reliable sources tell me CC didnt die.

so the question is, why did he made it up so that we would be very convinced that he did die.

i think it is the premise that is center to the philosophy of the warriors: that we are beings that are going to die.

what better lesson than to show it with your own example, huh CC?

 

[doc benway]

If I recall from the books, I believe that CC referred to the entities as being inorganic organisms as opposed to micro-organisms (ie bacteria, viruses, and so on). That just occured to me... Not that it makes any difference, just thought I'd mention it.

[宁]

La Gorda's Death:

 

He told us the story of Maria Elena, an advanced pupil of Don Juan, who had developed great power as a warrior but didn't know how to control the bad habits of her human stage.

 

"She thought that she had it all under control, but that was not the case. A very selfish concern, a personal attachment, remained in her; she expected things from the group of warriors, and that finished her.

 

"La Gorda felt offended with me, because she considered me unable to lead the apprentices to freedom, and she never accepted me as the new nagual. Once Don Juan's directive force disappeared, she began to reproach me for my inadequacy, or rather my energetic anomaly, without keeping in mind that that, too, was a command of the spirit. Soon after, she allied herself with the Genaros and the Sisters and began to behave as if she were the leader of the party. But what exasperated her most of all was the public success of my books.

 

"One day, in an outburst of self-sufficiency, she gathered us all together, stood in front of us and screamed: Bunch of Suckers! I'm leaving!'

 

"She knew the exercise of the fire from within, by means of which she could move the assemblage point to the world of the nagual and meet up with Don Juan and Don Genaro. But that afternoon she was very agitated. Some of the apprentices tried to calm her, and that infuriated her even more. I could not do anything; the situation inhibited my power.

 

After a brutal effort, anything but impeccable, she had a stroke and fell down dead. What killed her was her egomania."

 

As a moral of this strange story, Carlos added that a warrior never allows himself to reach the point of madness, because to die from an ego attack is the stupidest way to die.

 

"Self-importance is deadly, it stops the free flow of the energy and that is fatal. It is responsible for our end as individuals, and one day it will finish us as a species. When a warrior learns how to toss it aside, his spirit unfolds, jubilant, like a wild animal liberated from its cage and set free.

 

"Self-importance can be fought in various ways, but first of all it is necessary to know that it's there. If you have a defect and you recognize it, half the work is done already!

[Stigweard]

As always Carlos Castaneda's works dredge up impassioned conjecture both for and against. There is, however, ingrained within CC's work a precept that many people miss, and without this understanding they are left in the quagmire of either tail-chasing questions or ignorant faith.

 

The precept is basically "The Tale of Power". What do we do when we encounter or learn of something extraordinary? To borrow from Theun Mares' excellent work people generally do one of three things.

 

THE BIGOT WILL IGNORE WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND PRETEND IT NEVER OCCURRED.

 

THE SANCTIMONIOUS MAN WILL ACCEPT THE INCIDENT AT FACE VALUE, BELIEVING THAT HE UNDERSTANDS IT ALL.

 

THE FOOLISH MAN IS FOREVER PUZZLED BY WHAT HAS HAPPENED, NOT KNOWING WHETHER TO ACCEPT OF REJECT THE INCIDENT, AND THUS BECOMES OBSESSED WITH HIS QUESTIONS.

 

The Toltec Warrior, on the other hand, will treat it as a Tale of Power, and will neither believe nor disbelieve what has been encountered. Although accepting the face value of something, the Warrior also acknowledges the unfathomable mystery of life ... so instead of trying to prove or disprove something the Warrior concerns himself only with how can this experience / story etc be used in his quest for freedom.

 

Carlos' works are Tale of Power ... fool to you who herald it's authenticity and fool to you heckle it's falsity.

 

-------

 

On the note of 'organisms' Master Ni Hua Ching promotes the existance of spiritual beings that coinhabit our energy space. The level of one's own personal achievement will determine the nature of these beings ... one of low achievement will attract 'darker' entities with the converse prevalent for one of high achievement. It is also taught that one's own being is a microverse of little gods and goddesses. Integrating these composite consciousnesses contributes to the coining of the phrase 'the path of subtle integration'.

[doc benway]

As always Carlos Castaneda's works dredge up impassioned conjecture both for and against. There is, however, ingrained within CC's work a precept that many people miss, and without this understanding they are left in the quagmire of either tail-chasing questions or ignorant faith.

 

The precept is basically "The Tale of Power". What do we do when we encounter or learn of something extraordinary? To borrow from Theun Mares' excellent work people generally do one of three things.

 

THE BIGOT WILL IGNORE WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND PRETEND IT NEVER OCCURRED.

 

THE SANCTIMONIOUS MAN WILL ACCEPT THE INCIDENT AT FACE VALUE, BELIEVING THAT HE UNDERSTANDS IT ALL.

 

THE FOOLISH MAN IS FOREVER PUZZLED BY WHAT HAS HAPPENED, NOT KNOWING WHETHER TO ACCEPT OF REJECT THE INCIDENT, AND THUS BECOMES OBSESSED WITH HIS QUESTIONS.

 

The Toltec Warrior, on the other hand, will treat it as a Tale of Power, and will neither believe nor disbelieve what has been encountered. Although accepting the face value of something, the Warrior also acknowledges the unfathomable mystery of life ... so instead of trying to prove or disprove something the Warrior concerns himself only with how can this experience / story etc be used in his quest for freedom.

 

Carlos' works are Tale of Power ... fool to you who herald it's authenticity and fool to you heckle it's falsity.

 

Good point and well stated Stig!

 

On the note of 'organisms' Master Ni Hua Ching promotes the existance of spiritual beings that coinhabit our energy space. The level of one's own personal achievement will determine the nature of these beings ... one of low achievement will attract 'darker' entities with the converse prevalent for one of high achievement. It is also taught that one's own being is a microverse of little gods and goddesses. Integrating these composite consciousnesses contributes to the coining of the phrase 'the path of subtle integration'.

yet another Tale of Power no doubt...

[growant]

I don't see how anyone who reads Sorcerer's Apprentice could still give any credence to ANYTHING Castaneda writes, or want to have anything to do with his path/teachings.

[Stigweard]

I don't see how anyone who reads Sorcerer's Apprentice could still give any credence to ANYTHING Castaneda writes, or want to have anything to do with his path/teachings.

 

I appreciate what you are saying and personally agree with you. Just remember though that, just as it applies to Castaneda, anyone can publish a book and make it seem real and believable.

 

In my view the Toltec tradition, regardless of how it may have been distorted and misrepresented by Castandeda, is a path rich with spiritual insight and relevance. For a more sound rendition of this tradition I recommend any of the works by Theun Mares, particularly "Return of the Warriors".

[growant]

I used to work with a psychic/sorcerer who was into the Castaneda thing. I always had an intuition, at that time, that there was something heartless about that path that separated it from any path I'd experimented with in the past.

 

What stuck with me the most from Sorcerer's Apprentice was all the needless suffering Casteneda brought to the world- its bad enough that he told all his followers to cut off their families, but what possible purpose could there be to having them also say "I send you to hell" but gratuitous cruelty? The world doesn't need any more of that.

[宁]

CC would tell you that you worry too much about yourself

that's why you seem to care so much, too much about others - people you dont even know, and about which you have heard only stories

 

he could not have manufactured those books

that kind of a feat is just impossible

it's not fiction

[Apech]

I don't see how anyone who reads Sorcerer's Apprentice could still give any credence to ANYTHING Castaneda writes, or want to have anything to do with his path/teachings.

 

 

I read it (unfortunately) and found it to be mostly the kind of prattle which the other books are free from. Personally I take from the books what I need. I also make a distinction between the early books and the last ones (particularly Magical Passes) which I find opaque and unhelpful.

 

I don't know if DJ existed but I still tend to think that the difference between the early and late books points to the possibility that CC actually met someone or some people who knew what they were doing - because clearly he didn't! The teachings in the books are excellent but CC's behaviour seems to typify someone who had misunderstood what he had been taught.

[Mal]

Has anyone read this book, im sure we can find it somewhere free on the web,

 

Found a torrent on pirate bay but with only one seed it's not downloading

Edit: went to many trackers, finally found 1 active seed. Thanks www

[cheya]

 

 

In my view the Toltec tradition, regardless of how it may have been distorted and misrepresented by Castandeda, is a path rich with spiritual insight and relevance. For a more sound rendition of this tradition I recommend any of the works by Theun Mares, particularly "Return of the Warriors".

Hi Stig,
"Return of the Warriors" is currently listed at $100!
What would be your second recommendation for a starter Mares book?

Thanks,