Encounters with the Nagual

[宁]

Found a torrent on pirate bay but with only one seed it's not downloading

Edit: went to many trackers, finally found 1 active seed. Thanks www

 

How is it Mal?

 

 

 

Even IF the books were fictional, I'd still say they are the work of a genius.

In either case, the author has my respects.

 

E,

 

PS: And yes, I think their attitude might be a bit offensive to the easy-living and spoiled attitude of the "westerners". You'd really have to live in an enviromnent that solicits you to act upon the principles of the warrior in order to survive. That situation may happen also in the context of a too sensitive person being in the middle of a struggling materialistic and hypocritical environment. It does make alot of sense taken that way. It's kind of a tool, if you can use it, it's real for you, if you need it not, it'll feel like alot of mambo.

[Mal]

[gendao]

Found a torrent on pirate bay but with only one seed it's not downloading

Edit: went to many trackers, finally found 1 active seed. Thanks www

Mind PMing me that link?

[Stigweard]

Hi Stig,

"Return of the Warriors" is currently listed at $100!

What would be your second recommendation for a starter Mares book?

 

Thanks,

Adeha

 

 

Oops missed this ... pardon me

 

Honestly I really couldn't recommend any other source. You do have Victor Sanchez's "The Teachings of Don Carlos" which is a consolidation of Castaneda's works. But Castenada refuted any connection with Sanchez before he died so what you have is a questionable text based on questionable texts

 

Sorry 'bout that

[cheya]

 

 

Honestly I really couldn't recommend any other source. You do have Victor Sanchez's "The Teachings of Don Carlos" which is a consolidation of Castaneda's works. But Castenada refuted any connection with Sanchez before he died so what you have is a questionable text based on questionable texts

Hi Stig,
Thanks for your response. Actually I was asking for your next favorite Theun Mares volume, one that I could get at a reasonable price online. Return of the Warriors is pretty steep!

I don't worry about CC's refuting a connection with Sanchez. I only use Sanchez's book to locate quotes in CC's many volumes. You know how you'll kind of remember a quote, and then you have no idea how to find it? Sanchez's book Promise of Power has a great "Catalogue of 1000 secrets" which gives book and page number for a gazillion CC topics, and it's a great reference. And you can locate practically everything CC said about any given topic. Sanchez's original work, on the other hand, is transparently not in alignment with CC.

Thanks!
 

[Stigweard]

Hi Stig,

Thanks for your response. Actually I was asking for your next favorite Theun Mares volume, one that I could get at a reasonable price online. Return of the Warriors is pretty steep!

 

I don't worry about CC's refuting a connection with Sanchez. I only use Sanchez's book to locate quotes in CC's many volumes. You know how you'll kind of remember a quote, and then you have no idea how to find it? Sanchez's book Promise of Power has a great "Catalogue of 1000 secrets" which gives book and page number for a gazillion CC topics, and it's a great reference. And you can locate practically everything CC said about any given topic. Sanchez's original work, on the other hand, is transparently not in alignment with CC.

 

Thanks!

Adeha

Theun Mares originally wrote his books in this order:

 

Return of the Warriors

Cry of the Eagle

The Mists of Dragon Lore

Shadows of Wolf Fire

 

Also:

This Darned Elusive Happiness

The Quest for Maleness

Unveil the Mysteries of the Female

 

He then revised and compiled everything into a veritable encyclopedia of Toltec Lore which can be found here. The first volume is a reprint of Return of The Warriors and is available for ZAR 365.00 / 38.03 USD

 

However you can get an insight into Theun's work by reviewing the extracts from the books over here.

 

I hope this helps

[cheya]

Theun Mares originally wrote his books in this order:

 

Return of the Warriors

Cry of the Eagle.....

He then revised and compiled everything into a veritable encyclopedia of Toltec Lore which can be found here. The first volume is a reprint of Return of The Warriors and is available for ZAR 365.00 / 38.03 USD

However you can get an insight into Theun's work by reviewing the extracts from the books over here.

 

I hope this helps

 

It does!

Thanks, Stig!

[宁]

This Theun Mares's writings are simmilar to Victor Sanchez's: there is information, but no spirit in it. It can't go anywhere near "the trickster" CC. He was awesome, his books are a spring of life and passion, peril and adventure, purpose-giving and insightful. Oh, i forgot to add: ...to me.

 

Disclaimer: I still don't know squat about his real teachings and legacy. And still think it'll remain a mystery. Maybe its better to take things as mysteries, than to think that you had it all figured out... that's the common arrogance of the simplistic ego-mind.

 

""What do you want me to say?" he asked. "That they are pacifists? Well, they are not! Our destiny as ordinary men doesn't concern them at all! You should understand this once and for all! A warrior is made for combat. When he is at war, he is comfortable."

 

Judging from his reaction, it seemed that the question had touched on a sensitive spot. He took his time, explaining that, unlike the petty wars which we as humans constantly involve ourselves in because of social, religious, or economic reasons, the war of sorcerers is not directed against other people, but against their own weaknesses. By the same token, their peace is not the submissive condition to which modern man has been reduced; rather, it is an imperturbable state of internal silence and discipline.

 

"Passivity", he said, "is a violation of our nature, because, in essence, we are all formidable combatants. Every human being is, by right, a soldier who has achieved his place in the world in a battle of life and death."

 

"Look at it this way: At least once, as sperms, each one of us fought a battle for life - a unique struggle against millions of other competitors - and we won! And now the battle continues, since we are trapped by the forces of this world. One part of us is fighting to disintegrate and die, while another tries to maintain life and awareness at any cost. There is no peace! A warrior realizes this, and uses it to his advantage. His goal continues to be that which inspired the spark of life that created him: Access to a new level of awareness."

 

He continued by saying that as we become socialized, human beings are tamed, just like an animal is domesticated, by the power of stimuli and punishments.

 

"We have been trained to live and die meekly, following unnatural codes of behavior which soften us and make us lose that initial impulse, until our spirit is hardly noticeable. We are born as a result of a fight. By denying our basic tendencies, the society we live in eradicates the warring heritage that transforms us into magical beings."

 

He added that the only available way to change is to accept ourselves just as we are, and work from there."

Edited March 25, 2009 by Little1

[Mal]

It can't go anywhere near "the trickster" CC. He was awesome, his books are a spring of life and passion, peril and adventure, purpose-giving and insightful. Oh, i forgot to add: ...to me.

 

Disclaimer: I still don't know squat about his real teachings and legacy. And still think it'll remain a mystery. Maybe its better to take things as mysteries, than to think that you had it all figured out... that's the common arrogance of the simplistic ego-mind.

 

Yes. The end of my favorite TV series, Buffy, was the catalyst that started me training martial arts everyday. 67 months ago.

 

Does it matter that Buffy is fiction. No. The passion and ideals, that's what is real and important.

 

Thanks for reminding me about this book, still reading and having fun it's great to have more stories about a favorite character like CC.

[Stigweard]

Yes. The end of my favorite TV series, Buffy, was the catalyst that started me training martial arts everyday. 67 months ago.

 

Does it matter that Buffy is fiction. No. The passion and ideals, that's what is real and important.

 

Thanks for reminding me about this book, still reading and having fun it's great to have more stories about a favorite character like CC.

 

Indeed I think it was something Don Juan said ... "Without personal power even the most profoundly written truth will not lead the Warrior to freedom."

 

Conversely, as you say Mal, with personal power even a Spy vs Spy comic strip could be the key that unlocks the mysteries of the universe.

 

[宁]

with personal power even a Spy vs Spy comic strip could be the key that unlocks the mysteries of the universe.

 

 

Of course

 

Nevertheless...........

[Mokona]

This Theun Mares's writings are simmilar to Victor Sanchez's: there is information, but no spirit in it. It can't go anywhere near "the trickster" CC. He was awesome, his books are a spring of life and passion, peril and adventure, purpose-giving and insightful. Oh, i forgot to add: ...to me.

 

Disclaimer: I still don't know squat about his real teachings and legacy. And still think it'll remain a mystery. Maybe its better to take things as mysteries, than to think that you had it all figured out... that's the common arrogance of the simplistic ego-mind.

 

""What do you want me to say?" he asked. "That they are pacifists? Well, they are not! Our destiny as ordinary men doesn't concern them at all! You should understand this once and for all! A warrior is made for combat. When he is at war, he is comfortable."

 

Judging from his reaction, it seemed that the question had touched on a sensitive spot. He took his time, explaining that, unlike the petty wars which we as humans constantly involve ourselves in because of social, religious, or economic reasons, the war of sorcerers is not directed against other people, but against their own weaknesses. By the same token, their peace is not the submissive condition to which modern man has been reduced; rather, it is an imperturbable state of internal silence and discipline.

 

"Passivity", he said, "is a violation of our nature, because, in essence, we are all formidable combatants. Every human being is, by right, a soldier who has achieved his place in the world in a battle of life and death."

 

"Look at it this way: At least once, as sperms, each one of us fought a battle for life - a unique struggle against millions of other competitors - and we won! And now the battle continues, since we are trapped by the forces of this world. One part of us is fighting to disintegrate and die, while another tries to maintain life and awareness at any cost. There is no peace! A warrior realizes this, and uses it to his advantage. His goal continues to be that which inspired the spark of life that created him: Access to a new level of awareness."

 

He continued by saying that as we become socialized, human beings are tamed, just like an animal is domesticated, by the power of stimuli and punishments.

 

"We have been trained to live and die meekly, following unnatural codes of behavior which soften us and make us lose that initial impulse, until our spirit is hardly noticeable. We are born as a result of a fight. By denying our basic tendencies, the society we live in eradicates the warring heritage that transforms us into magical beings."

 

He added that the only available way to change is to accept ourselves just as we are, and work from there."

 

Traditions of all kinds try to make sense of this. I like this explanation and way of dealing with it the most.

[Mal]

Still enjoying this (whenever I get a chance to borrow / steal the e book reader

"Death is not a game, it is reality Without death, there would not be any power in what

sorcerers do. It involves you personally, whether you want it to or not. You can be so cynical

that you discard other topics of these teachings, but you cannot make fun of your end, because it is beyond your power to decide, and it is implacable.

"Destiny's coach will take all of us, without distinction. But there are two kinds of travelers:

warriors who can leave with the totality of themselves, because they have fine-tuned every

detail of their lives, and ordinary people, with boring existences, without creativity, whose

only hope is in the repetition of their stereotypes until the end; people whose end won't make

any difference, whether this end happens today or in thirty years. We are all there, waiting on

the platform of eternity, but not everyone knows it. Awareness of death is a great art.

"When a warrior has put an end to his routines, when he doesn't care anymore whether he has

company or is alone, because he has heard the silent whisper of the spirit; then you can say

that, truly, he has died. From that point on, even the simplest things in life become

extraordinary for him.

"For this, a sorcerer learns how to live again. He tastes each moment as if it were the last one.

He doesn't waste any effort on feeling dissatisfied, nor does he throw away his energy. He

doesn't wait until he becomes old to ponder the mysteries of the world. He is ahead, he

explores, he knows and marvels.

"If you want to make space for the unknown, you must be aware of your personal extinction.

Accept your destiny as the unavoidable fact that it is. Purify that feeling, become responsible

for the incredible event of being alive. Don't beg in the presence of death; it will not

condescend to those who give in. Invoke it, aware that you came to this world to know it.

Challenge it, even knowing that whatever we do, we don't have the smallest chance of

conquering it. She is as gentle with the warrior as it is merciless with the ordinary man."

 

 

After this lecture, Carlos gave us an exercise.

"It concerns an inventory of your loved ones, of everybody who concerns you. Once you have

classified them according to the degree of feeling that you have for each, you will take them,

one by one, and pass them through death."

A murmur of consternation rippled through the listeners.

Making a soothing gesture, Carlos added:

"Don't get scared! There is nothing macabre about death. What is macabre is that we cannot

face it with deliberation,.

"You should do this exercise at midnight, when the fixation of our assemblage point is

loosened and we are willing to believe in ghosts. It is very simple; you will evoke your dear

beings through their inevitable end. Don't think about how or when they will die. Simply

make yourself aware that some day they won't be there anymore. One by one they will leave,

God knows in which order, and it doesn't matter what you try to do to avoid it.

"When evoking them in this way, you won't harm them; on the contrary! You will be seeing

them in the appropriate perspective. The focal point of death is prodigious, it restores the true

values of life."

[seadog]

I have no interest in weather CC was telling truths or tales,what for me was wonderful was a glimpse of world that in many ways is no longer with us. The hunters life,the warriors life which by nature cherishes freedom above comfort.

Sometimes I think the invention of agriculture was humankinds greatest mistake.

[NoIdea]

http://www.sustainedaction.org/ - Read it and Weep.

 

http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/ -All of his books, (online and free) with Carlos' words omitted, just pure DonJuan Matus comments.

 

Apologies if anyone has already posted these.

 

The "Tales From The Jungle" is still available on torrent, but it is the sign language version, with the film on a screen behind a guy giving sign language.

 

 

Dont bother quoting DonJuan or Carlos - Im outside of the box

Edited June 11, 2009 by NoIdea

[宁]

Im outside of the box

 

everybody is entitled to an opinion

[NoIdea]

OK

Edited June 11, 2009 by NoIdea

[dwai]

Ok, let's put it another way... what are the things that definately convinced you that CC was a fraud.

I can tell you my experience. In ten years time i have heard every conceivable argument in favour or against this idea, and all of them were good and solid. If you dont belive it, we can start one, you give me the DONT's and i will give you the DO's. It will take a while, and we will probably get nowhere.

So here's the thing, what decided for me if they are authentical or not was not on a mental debatable plane.

The were alive to me, and made me more alive.

Whether tensegrity movements were stolen from someone else or not, or the ideas, i would live that to theproper authorities to investigate, but up until now, even thow a lot of money is in the issue, no one came with a definate proof. This is not to say i belive them because of it, it's just one fact. If i put my mind into it im sure i would have came up with a more attractive set of movements to rock the market, i wouldnt have to steal it from someone.

As for the bell issue, if we are to continue it... the master of the bell couldnt know, because all the good bells ring the same way, ring for awakening. By the way, the real master of such bells is only Infinity, which seems to have a definite interest of multiplying and fabricating such bells, im not sure to what means IT does that, and IT doesnt care about our sense of property, knowledge of this kind is universal, it springs out from many and all the traditions. The worst detractors of CC agreed on a couple of thingst though: one of them is that he didnt do it for the money.

 

I promised i wouldnt copy/paste no more, but i just cant help it. Somebody stop me

 

I commented that, according to what I had read, divulging secret knowledge is characteristic of 'black' sorcerers; on the other hand,

'white' sorcerers transmit what they know with restraint, because they are aware that knowledge involves a certain danger to those who are not prepared to receive it.

 

Carlos shook his head with incredulity.

 

"But what is going on with you?" he asked. "What destroys us is ignorance, not knowledge! There is nothing in the profundities of knowledge that can put man's authentic interests at risk!

 

Carlos demanded that I define the term 'initiated'. This got me in trouble, since in fact I didn't have a very clear idea about this. Making an effort, I explained to him that initiates are people who, thanks to their merits, become recipients of a particular traditional knowledge the rest of their fellow men do not share.

 

While I spoke, Carlos agreed gravely. When. I finished, he commented: "That definition is a portrait of the importance you grant yourself".

 

He maintained that classifying human beings for what they know is a mere arrangement of the collective inventory, something like making distinctions among a line of ants because some are slightly darker than others.

 

"The ironic thing is that we human beings do in fact divide ourselves into two groups: Those who dissipate their energy, and those who conserve it. You can call the last ones whatever you want, sorcerers, Toltecs, initiated; and it's the same whether they have a teacher or not. Their luminous reality is such that they are a step away from freedom.

 

Fraud or not, Carlos' description of Nagual and Tonal are almost eerily similar to description of Maya (phenomenal world) and Brahman.

 

Each and every concept mentioned in his books is mirrored in Taoism and Vedanta. In my opinion, a faker cannot capture the essence of the knowledge as beautifully as Carlos had in his writing.

 

Don Juan may or may not be real, but the wisdom in Carlos' writing is undeniably present.

[宁]

In my opinion,

a faker cannot capture the essence of the knowledge as beautifully

as Carlos had in his writing.

 

Thank you Dwai. This is my only (pointless) point...

[dwai]

Thank you Dwai. This is my only (pointless) point...

 

the ultimate truth is the same...the wise describe it by different names

[Josh Young]

Having read the Book of Mormon and the Bible it occurs to me that many frauds are perpetuated by the feeling of truth found in the words being extended to the facts being true. This is emotional appeal for the most part.

 

Just because one can feel the truth of words, does not mean that the context they are presented in is truthful.

 

The facts around CC are simply to strong to ignore, there is a tremendous amount to suggest he "borrowed" spiritual teachings from many traditions and then sold them repackaged to an eager audience.

 

There is a type of dishonesty in this that is not to be ignored.

His work is worth reading, but the man did not achieve what his followers hope to. When the teacher is not an example of what he is teaching, then the teachings are not his.

[宁]

thank you for your opinion

[Josh Young]

To be sure that is all it is. An opinion.

I have enjoyed reading his books, but cannot respect what he did.

[宁]

if he would have done anything else than what he did, then i would have questioned this teachings. it seems we have different understanding on what he meant with his books. one piece of the puzzle is in the book i've been quoting on this thread, written by Torres.

[zzR]

The book "Encounters" is one of the two best books I can recommend to anyone.

 

I am happy to say that I feel more free than I ever expected to be in this lifetime, and if I get time I will write my own book to hopefully help others entitled something like, "How To Raise A Peerless Son With Next To No effort".

 

I attribute all of that directly to by having read and re-read Taisha Abelar, Florinda Donner, Armando Torres, and some other popular writer named, um, something like Carlitos Cant-stand-ya-- or something like that-- which I started reading 26 years ago.

 

You might say that I stumbled upon their books at http://www.aquakeys.com/toltec/index.html, but if you were to say that, it would be less than accurate.

 

The UserName and PassWord are both..

aquakeys

.. .

 

I wish you all the very best. and I intend for us all the very best, and changing the modality of the time is my final and only intent.

 

Peace. Salaam.

 

Christopher J F R.

 

===

 

PS: The attached file is a Torrent, for those of you who know what that is, and represents the entirety of the 17 most powerful books I am aware of and are in HTML format-- and is a torrent which I expect to keep alive even if the above named website is shut down-- again.

 

Although the file name for this torrent is presently your_total_freedom.zip, if you download it and change the ".zip" to ".torrent", (without the double-quotation marks), you will be in fine shape.

 

Although those I know will attest that my demeanor is pleasant beyond any scale, my seriousness is equally without measure.

 

===

your_total_freedom.zip

Edited July 28, 2009 by zzR