Acting on your true will

[Michael Sternbach]

Hi Bums,

 

If you are anything like me, there are all kinds of things that you want to do, have, be. Also, there are frequently plenty of obstacles seemingly just designed to keep most of those things you desire off limits. How are you going to handle that dilemma, once you heard the call?

 

To be brutally honest with you, most people, most of the time, won't handle it at all. They haven't been taught how to do this! What they have been taught is to be content and not to challenge all those boundaries imposed on them pretty much from the moment they were born.

 

The latter take many forms. Some are disguised as 'common sense', meaning what you are "realistically speaking" able to do, given your internal and external circumstances. Others are implied by social rules, with their endless "dos" and "don'ts." And some are the result of apparent expectations by those you care for (and I say "apparent" because those expectations are not always what they seem to be on the surface!). Not to forget, the spiritual tradition you follow may be singing from that same song-sheet of acceptance and humility.

 

And don't get me wrong, getting rid of a particular limitation may not be your best choice in every  case. At any rate, it can't always be done right away and without some sacrifice.

 

Now if you look deeper, you will  find many of your boundaries to actually be self-imposed. Typically  they are based on fear of doing the wrong thing and getting in trouble; on lack of confidence in your aspirations and/or in yourself; on reluctance to move out of your comfort zone. Here you have summed up some of the major reasons why a lot of people content themselves with second best!

 

Yes, accepting the challenge of living your life to its full potential may indeed be daunting at times. It may well involve letting go of your sense of security.

 

However, make no mistake: what seems like a safe way to play the game may turn out not to be so after all. And those unsatisfactory things that you pretend not to acknowledge and therefore leave alone tend to come back at you and hit you right in the face - especially when least expected!

 

By the way, have you seen Matrix Resurrections yet? (Remember, all Matrix movies are required 'viewing' for spiritual seekers! ) Well, if you have, you will know that Neo tells Morpheus that he has "fought enough already" at first. And as a result, he gets whacked around quite a bit! That is, before he finally gets the message, turns the tables on his relentless mentor and blows him right through the dojo wall...

 

As will be seen later, Neo needed that lesson; by the time The Analyst counts on him and his 'twin flame' Trinity to go back to their pods and have themselves reintegrated into the virtual bliss of the Matrix (as no doubt the average person would prefer to do) he's got enough fight back in him to not play along and change things big time - not just for himself, but for everyone around him as well! (Boy, you really gotta love those Matrix movies - and watch them more than once - for all those profound messages they contain! :D)

 

Alright, now let's contemplate Aleister Crowley's central message once again :

 

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

Liber Al vel legis I:40

 

Jesus, that one is spiritual dynamite! If you actually implement it, chances are it will change your life for good. Without any guarantees that you will prevail. Without a return ticket at hand. And trust me, there be dragons! 

 

However, the gods will help those who dare take a chance. Whose greatest regret would be not having lived their life to the full. Who aspire to be the best they can be - regardless of the consequences.

 

Because they will recognize them as being of their own kind.

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

Cheers

Michael 

[old3bob]

"Do what thou wilt" sounds like it forgot the part that says, "if it harms none, do what you will",  thus the variation you quoted without the other part (? )could easily devolve or be by default a ticket to empower egotists dreams (with Putin, trump and trumpism being  current examples among many on the world scene) which results in compounded and great suffering for many.   

Edited April 10, 2022 by old3bob

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

"Do what thou wilt" sounds like it forgot the part that says, "if it harms none, do what you will",  thus the variation you quoted without the other part (? )could easily devolve or be by default a ticket to empower egotists dreams (with Putin, trump and trumpism being  current examples among many on the world scene) which results in compounded and great suffering for many.   

 

Sigh ..... not this again ! 

 

1st .   it didnt forget anything - what you quoted was a latter addition / corruption.

 

2md You will NEVER understand what this means unless you understand and comprehend the specific terms used - mistaking 'doing what you want ' for  the 'True Will' . 

 

Its a bit like someone thinking being 'enlightened ' means they can now afford a table lamp .

 

To make such a comment as you did above, I have to assume you have read nothing I wrote on the subject here , including my extensive and all important comparison with the Zoroastrian concept of Khvaranah  - which is where Crowley probably lifted it from ; his recommend reading list ( BEFORE ) reading his works includes the Chaldean  Oracles and the Avestas ( as wel as a whole lot of other stuff ) .

 

besides .... people like Putin, trump or whoever dont need no 'default ticket ' .... what does that even mean  anyway ?

 

Putin eventually gets doe for war crimes and he pleads he was just following Crowley ?   It doesnt make sense .

 

The whole thing about finding and expressing your TRUE WILL / Khvaranah is that it can and does alleviate suffering

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Hi Bums,

 

If you are anything like me, there are all kinds of things that you want to do, have, be. Also, there are frequently plenty of obstacles seemingly just designed to keep most of those things you desire off limits. How are you going to handle that dilemma, once you heard the call?

 

To be brutally honest with you, most people, most of the time, won't handle it at all. They haven't been taught how to do this! What they have been taught is to be content and not to challenge all those boundaries imposed on them pretty much from the moment they were born.

 

The latter take many forms. Some are disguised as 'common sense', meaning what you are "realistically speaking" able to do, given your internal and external circumstances. Others are implied by social rules, with their endless "dos" and "don'ts." And some are the result of apparent expectations by those you care for (and I say "apparent" because those expectations are not always what they seem to be on the surface!). Not to forget, the spiritual tradition you follow may be singing from that same song-sheet of acceptance and humility.

 

And don't get me wrong, getting rid of a particular limitation may not be your best choice in every  case. At any rate, it can't always be done right away and without some sacrifice.

 

Now if you look deeper, you will  find many of your boundaries to actually be self-imposed. Typically  they are based on fear of doing the wrong thing and getting in trouble; on lack of confidence in your aspirations and/or in yourself; on reluctance to move out of your comfort zone. Here you have summed up some of the major reasons why a lot of people content themselves with second best!

 

Yes, accepting the challenge of living your life to its full potential may indeed be daunting at times. It may well involve letting go of your sense of security.

 

However, make no mistake: what seems like a safe way to play the game may turn out not to be so after all. And those unsatisfactory things that you pretend not to acknowledge and therefore leave alone tend to come back at you and hit you right in the face - especially when least expected!

 

By the way, have you seen Matrix Resurrections yet? (Remember, all Matrix movies are required 'viewing' for spiritual seekers! ) Well, if you have, you will know that Neo tells Morpheus that he has "fought enough already" at first. And as a result, he gets whacked around quite a bit! That is, before he finally gets the message, turns the tables on his relentless mentor and blows him right through the dojo wall...

 

As will be seen later, Neo needed that lesson; by the time The Analyst counts on him and his 'twin flame' Trinity to go back to their pods and have themselves reintegrated into the virtual bliss of the Matrix (as no doubt the average person would prefer to do) he's got enough fight back in him to not play along and change things big time - not just for himself, but for everyone around him as well! (Boy, you really gotta love those Matrix movies - and watch them more than once - for all those profound messages they contain! :D)

 

Alright, now let's contemplate Aleister Crowley's central message once again :

 

 

 

Liber Al vel legis I:40

 

Jesus, that one is spiritual dynamite! If you actually implement it, chances are it will change your life for good. Without any guarantees that you will prevail. Without a return ticket at hand. And trust me, there be dragons! 

 

However, the gods will help those who dare take a chance. Whose greatest regret would be not having lived their life to the full. Who aspire to be the best they can be - regardless of the consequences.

 

Because they will recognize them as being of their own kind.

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

Cheers

Michael 

 

yeah .... but I had to address the above first .

 

My first thought was .  I have not acted on my True Will .... but it has acted on me   

[Nungali]

In case some have been away or missed it , here is some info on it ;

 

https://forum.alchemical.garden/threads/212/#post-1446

 

2nd post .

 

 

 

.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Nungali

[Michael Sternbach]

Old3bob,

 

I sympathize with your objection. No doubt this is a difficult subject.

 

In theory, by following your true will - which is the mandate of your spiritual inner self - you will be acting in ways that would benefit the whole. But as a matter of fact, we can't even always know what the ramifications of our most well-intended actions may be. And yet act we must.

 

You mentioned tyrants imposing their will to power on countless innocent people and thereby causing untold suffering. My first question would be, are they actually following their true will? Or are they (perhaps along with those of lesser, but nonetheless destructive enough influence) so divorced from their innermost divine self that they are no longer able to do so?

 

We might assume this to be the case, however, there is another consideration to make. Wars and other destructive mass events - dreadful as they are - do not occur without reason. For the sake of humanity's evolution, smouldering conflicts must eventually be worked out one way or another. Old structures must be destroyed and give way to new ones. Sadly, as a species we have not yet attained the wisdom to always do so in non-violent ways.

 

All this ties in with our evolution from instinct driven creatures to sophisticated creative entities.

 

It's a fair assumption that a lion chasing after an antelope is following his true will. And surely the antelope is doing the same by getting the heck out of there!

 

The Dao is non-partial. It does not conform to our standards of morality. It sets in motion whatever forces may lead to a new balance and a more evolved condition overall - eventually. And while doing so, it reckons in terms of decades, centuries, millenia.

 

We humans are overwhelmed with such a perspective. Often enough, we don't see the big picture. God's ways are truly inscrutable.

 

The philosophy of "do what thou wilt" is meant as a guide line for spiritually oriented individuals seeking to play their rightful part in the cosmic game regardless. Well understood, it's probably the best advice that anyone can be given.

[Lairg]

How to distinguish the personal will from the spiritual will?

 

The lowest level of spiritual will manifested by the human may be Atma - coming under control at third stage enlightenment.

 

Use of higher levels of spiritual will generally requires the entity to leave the human kingdom

[Michael Sternbach]

9 hours ago, Lairg said:

How to distinguish the personal will from the spiritual will?

 

The key is removal of those layers of thought and emotion which inhibit your perception of and ability to act upon your true will.

 

9 hours ago, Lairg said:

The lowest level of spiritual will manifested by the human may be Atma - coming under control at third stage enlightenment.

 

Use of higher levels of spiritual will generally requires the entity to leave the human kingdom

 

Not likely to happen anytime soon. Your task as a soul incarnated in physicality is learning to manifest your spiritual nature to the utmost degree.

 

At the current stage of evolution, few are able to do that. However, each of them is helping to set a path for others to follow.

[old3bob]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Sigh ..... not this again ! 

 

1st .   it didnt forget anything - what you quoted was a latter addition / corruption.

 

2md You will NEVER understand what this means unless you understand and comprehend the specific terms used - mistaking 'doing what you want ' for  the 'True Will' . 

 

Its a bit like someone thinking being 'enlightened ' means they can now afford a table lamp .

 

To make such a comment as you did above, I have to assume you have read nothing I wrote on the subject here , including my extensive and all important comparison with the Zoroastrian concept of Khvaranah  - which is where Crowley probably lifted it from ; his recommend reading list ( BEFORE ) reading his works includes the Chaldean  Oracles and the Avestas ( as wel as a whole lot of other stuff ) .

 

besides .... people like Putin, trump or whoever dont need no 'default ticket ' .... what does that even mean  anyway ?

 

Putin eventually gets doe for war crimes and he pleads he was just following Crowley ?   It doesnt make sense .

 

The whole thing about finding and expressing your TRUE WILL / Khvaranah is that it can and does alleviate suffering

 

...thanks for demonstrating above what I was pointing out about the devolving process of willfulness trying to pass it itself off as being "spiritual"!  or being "all important" as an egotist  would say.

[old3bob]

 

11 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Old3bob,

 

I sympathize with your objection. No doubt this is a difficult subject.

 

In theory, by following your true will - which is the mandate of your spiritual inner self - you will be acting in ways that would benefit the whole. But as a matter of fact, we can't even always know what the ramifications of our most well-intended actions may be. And yet act we must.

 

You mentioned tyrants imposing their will to power on countless innocent people and thereby causing untold suffering. My first question would be, are they actually following their true will? Or are they (perhaps along with those of lesser, but nonetheless destructive enough influence) so divorced from their innermost divine self that they are no longer able to do so?

 

We might assume this to be the case, however, there is another consideration to make. Wars and other destructive mass events - dreadful as they are - do not occur without reason. For the sake of humanity's evolution, smouldering conflicts must eventually be worked out one way or another. Old structures must be destroyed and give way to new ones. Sadly, as a species we have not yet attained the wisdom to always do so in non-violent ways.

 

All this ties in with our evolution from instinct driven creatures to sophisticated creative entities.

 

It's a fair assumption that a lion chasing after an antelope is following his true will. And surely the antelope is doing the same by getting the heck out of there!

 

The Dao is non-partial. It does not conform to our standards of morality. It sets in motion whatever forces may lead to a new balance and a more evolved condition overall - eventually. And while doing so, it reckons in terms of decades, centuries, millenia.

 

We humans are overwhelmed with such a perspective. Often enough, we don't see the big picture. God's ways are truly inscrutable.

 

The philosophy of "do what thou wilt" is meant as a guide line for spiritually oriented individuals seeking to play their rightful part in the cosmic game regardless. Well understood, it's probably the best advice that anyone can be given.

 

lies are very often hidden in or with half truths...I'd say one of the real or main purposes of developing will is to have the will to surrender it ,  thus not to become a super egotist which will happen otherwise.   The 4th way has a lot of good fragments in it (although I think some of its teachers or students also went off the deep- end)  with parts of it teachings that can clear up and out most of gobble-de-gook from the likes of a fallen crowley.   I think your intent with the OP was good but misled with rationalizations from those who mislead.   (knowingly or unknowingly)

Edited April 11, 2022 by old3bob

[old3bob]

 

"...For Crowley, sex was treated as a sacrament, with the consumption of sexual fluids interpreted as a Eucharist.^[246] This was often manifested as the Cakes of Light, a biscuit containing either menstrual blood or a mixture of semen and vaginal fluids.^[247] The Gnostic Mass is the central religious ceremony within Thelema."

 

I sure hope you guys haven't swallowed this kind of shit from crowley!   If so adios...

[Lairg]

Crowley was not what he told others he was.   It turned out that his personal will was running him and he had at best infrequent access to higher will.   Post-mortem he has progressed modestly up the higher mental subplanes

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

...thanks for demonstrating above what I was pointing out about the devolving process of willfulness trying to pass it itself off as being "spiritual"!  or being "all important" as an egotist  would say.

 

I could try and guess what you mean , or you could explain exactly what you mean .

 

My guess is you took some sort of offence at my directness or that I am not as 'nice' and graceful as  Sterny  or  I was too direct . 

 

Mhe .

 

But what I said is accurate and what I assumed about also seems accurate .

 

- some may not know this but  that 'and harm non' addition , not only cancels out the true intent of the original concept but is a latter addition of Wicca ( modern witchcraft )  that has passed into a lot of New Age /  Modern 'spirituality' , to the   extent that, it now appears , some think the original is lacking the latter addition .

 

[ And further on Wicca - its a 'watered down'  ( to put it nicely ) version of a lot of Crowley's system , including an 'earth' triad (of three degrees of initiation )  , a morphing of Nuit on to a pagan concept of Goddess , and their whole interior rite  ( that their whole system is based on ) ; The Great Rite , was a lift of of The Gnostic Mass ... originally  it had identical passages in it, later versions where changed to hide its origin.  Further  Gerald Gardiner ( the creator of Wicca ) was a mate of Crowley's  ( he even gave Gardener a lighter engraved with ' With love from Alice '  l ) , discussed with Crowley about developing a system for the 'simple folk', ,  took his Minerval initiation in  OTO , and then lifted/added some nudity and  'symbolic flagellation'   to his  rites .  Thats 'Gardinarian Witchcraft' , the next development of Wicca  was another 'Old Boy' Alex Sanders , who combined half Gardinarian and half  Crowley Stuff -  'Alexandrian Witchcraft' . ]

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

"...For Crowley, sex was treated as a sacrament, with the consumption of sexual fluids interpreted as a Eucharist.^[246] This was often manifested as the Cakes of Light, a biscuit containing either menstrual blood or a mixture of semen and vaginal fluids.^[247] The Gnostic Mass is the central religious ceremony within Thelema."

 

I sure hope you guys haven't swallowed this kind of shit from crowley!   If so adios...

 

 

I sure hope you can start getting a lot more lucid  about  what it is thats bugging you  ?

 

- OR  you can keep playing cryptic .

 

 

.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Nungali

[Nungali]

29 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Crowley was not what he told others he was.   It turned out that his personal will was running him and he had at best infrequent access to higher will.   Post-mortem he has progressed modestly up the higher mental subplanes

 

Okay ... let's make this all about Crowley, specifically the bad parts and the failures , huh .

 

let's not even discuss such things as the True Will

 

BETTER STILL , let's discuss Tibetan Buddhism  .... wait !  Dont some of those guys  invoke demons and  and rip their own brains and guts out and stew them in their own brain case and offer it as a meal for demons in the graveyard ! 

 

I sure hope you guys havent swallowed any of that shit !  I sure hope any of you guys have not Tibetan  chanting  ( where you dont know  what the translation is , and t turns out you invoked demons  ... cough coughkamakargucoug  cough )  ....  If so, adious !

 

 

OR

 

people can look up my posts on  the Khvarenah .

[Nungali]

Poor Sterny  ....

 

 

 

 

- just when he though it was 'safe' to come back .

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Nungali

[old3bob]

The concept and action of "harm none" is not limited by or to any particular time or person that may speak those words, including ancient peoples of 5,000+ years ago, more modern day Wiccans or otherwise, it is a universal spiritual principle and is in no way in conflict with higher being, Beings or purity of Spirit that leads will,  while very sick and  perverted sex creeps like crowley that co-opt bits and pieces of various spiritual teachings for their own designs and then try to pass themselves off as somehow being  masters or enlightened is an evil sham that causes harm to the impressionable that fall under such seductive spells, and also to those who end up willfully choosing to indulge in such.  Some well known examples of such creeps have been revealed throughout history, while others  will largely remain unknown.

 

[Nungali]

Your protest is not valid . First of all you partially quote the original line  leaving out the qualifier, which is  not only specific to Crowley , but one he is infamous for , and then the Wiccan one , which is very specific wording :

On 10/04/2022 at 9:31 PM, old3bob said:

"Do what thou wilt" ..... "if it harms none, do what you will",  

 

Its very clear what you where talking about and what the conversation was about . But now, all of a sudden you are preteding  it doesnt relate  to those quotes at all because some people, going back to 5000+ years ago have not wanted to harm anyone . Clutching at straws   it seems .

 

I dont want to harm anyone either ..... but I sure feel sorry for any Wiccans that need to defend themselves, their family or kids while trying to not 'harm anyone ' .

 

.... what if it is your True Will to be soldier,  or even a hunter to provide food for your family ? 

 

Have a think about what 'harm NONE ' actually means .   What, you are going to become a Jain ?  NO ! You are , if you REALLY have adopted that philosophy of 'harm none'  ging to have to modify it ... as it is against the reality of life !

 

What it actually means is a catch phrase that people bandy around who are prepared to forget about it at a moments notice when it suits them .

 

 

 

 

[Lairg]

"if it harms none" is quite hard to determine.

 

I recall reading a quote from Mao Zedong  who was asked if he thought the French Revolution had been a success.  Apparently he replied:  It is too early to tell

 

Similarly with harming none.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Want to know what the original context of "Do what you will" was?

 

Here you go:

 

Quote

 

This quote has been attributed to St. Augustine, referring to what he said in a sermon on 1 John 4:4-12:

See what we are insisting upon; that the deeds of men are only discerned by the root of charity. For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet proceed not from the root of charity. For thorns also have flowers: some actions truly seem rough, seem savage; howbeit they are done for discipline at the bidding of charity. Once for all, then, a short precept is given you: Love, and do what you will: whether you hold your peace, through love hold your peace; whether you cry out, through love cry out; whether you correct, through love correct; whether you spare, through love do you spare: let the root of love be within, of this root can nothing spring but what is good.

 

Check it out at:

 

Christianity

 

So much for Aiwass and other nonsense.

 

ZYD

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Zhongyongdaoist
Some images from a previous post I was thinking of making showed up in the post. They were no longer relevant. ZYD

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

Your protest is not valid . First of all you partially quote the original line  leaving out the qualifier, which is  not only specific to Crowley , but one he is infamous for , and then the Wiccan one , which is very specific wording :

 

Its very clear what you where talking about and what the conversation was about . But now, all of a sudden you are preteding  it doesnt relate  to those quotes at all because some people, going back to 5000+ years ago have not wanted to harm anyone . Clutching at straws   it seems .

 

I dont want to harm anyone either ..... but I sure feel sorry for any Wiccans that need to defend themselves, their family or kids while trying to not 'harm anyone ' .

 

.... what if it is your True Will to be soldier,  or even a hunter to provide food for your family ? 

 

Have a think about what 'harm NONE ' actually means .   What, you are going to become a Jain ?  NO ! You are , if you REALLY have adopted that philosophy of 'harm none'  ging to have to modify it ... as it is against the reality of life !

 

What it actually means is a catch phrase that people bandy around who are prepared to forget about it at a moments notice when it suits them .

 

ok here a qualifier for those who may be interested... part of the intuited meaning should include that the intent is not to harm  in pre-meditated or hostile ways which in no way rules out self defense, which btw is something Gandhi was not shy about if it came down to it.

[old3bob]

9 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Want to know what the original context of "Do what you will" was?

 

Here you go:  

Check it out at:

Christianity

So much for Aiwass and other nonsense.

ZYD

 

 

I meant a variation to part of your quote with the words, "purity of Spirit that leads will",  which to me parallels "of this root can nothing spring but what is good"

[Desmonddf]

One's True Will is not a tool. It is not a mission or a state of being. Is the basys of one's right to exist on reality. It is never lost; And it cannot be claimed as well.

 

"Thou hast no right but to do thy will..."

 

In the world of men, one can live beyond the Rights that are given to them. But on the world of the divine, there is no escaping the bonds of one's own Rights and Diligences.

 

Everyone. At all times. Is fullfilling their own True Will.

 

All discussion on True Will is and forever will be an attempt of the Mind to grasp what is Divine. And to obtain knowledge of one's True Will is only to build a mirror in the mind, on an attempt to emulate its transcedental nature.

 

Such Mirror can be a blessing or a curse. If it binds Desire, then it is a Curse. If it inflammes one's own Passion, then it is a Blessing.

 

Carefull not to bind yourself with the shackles of Reason. Magick is beyond it.
 

[Lairg]

Long ago when living in a spiritual community I shared a house with a guy who had reached first stage enlightenment.

 

He explained to me that once at a particular stage of enlightenment it was possible to use spiritual will (intent) to achieve an outcome but without being allowed to choose how it happened.  At a later stage it was possible to choose how.

 

This use of higher will is making a decision.  No physical actions occur.   The planet/cosmos responds to valid decisions.  This is reflected in the concept that the enlightened human obtains the support of Nature

 

Personal will involves forceful movement of emotional and lower mental energies.  It is often a tense or stressful experience.   

 

Spiritual will is a peaceful decision with no action required.    The enlightened human rests his/her intent upon the required outcome - and continues to rest that intent without wavering.

 

It may be that at a later time that human is engaged in outer processes but that is not known by the human at the time of resting the intent

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Lairg

[old3bob]

I don't buy any spooky or magic sounding stuff about will which can become some form of self spun sorcery,  regardless of any co-opted or occult sounding jargon trying to call it otherwise and that in some circles (like crowleys) may include sayings like, "true will".  I've been very fortunate to come across the indomitable will of the Golden Being and that will carries through with wise intent,  the will of the Source (and other aspects) of Spirit which is known in Christianity as,   “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing..."

 

(I'd also bring up as a tangential example that at a certain point Solomon  acquired various forms of "occult" power, achievement and will but later said upon stark personal insight of himself (and of others on similar courses),  "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity", thankfully and in the end he went further than that with a far greater saying found in Ecclesiastes. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by old3bob