Passionate and disorganized

[Pacem92]

Hey guys, I've been reading this forum for a few months now and there's a lot to learn here. Unfortunately this is such a massive amount with all the references to teachings, teachers, books, sites and practices that I don't know where to begin.

Briefly about me, I will be 30 in the winter and work as a surgical technical assistant and in an apprenticeship as a non-medical practitioner. I'm very familiar with western medicine, but I'm drawn in a different direction.  

I'm familiar with simple meditation, sitting and stillness, I started 5 years ago and at times it's like "falling" into my body into an extremely dark, like pure black, timeless, silent space. If that happens, 40 - 60 min can easily pass, which feels like 15 min. 

I meditate while sitting on the floor, I can do the lotus seat for a long time without any numbness or anything else, because I often sat in this position as an child and then crawled around on my hands and knees. I also stretch regularly, I can't do splits but maybe one day. 

When I started meditating, I only knew Wim Hof and Tummo Meditation, and that's what I did, meditating outside in winter in shorts, cold showers and ice bath in summer, breathing exercises and so on. That all worked well, I also started to feel the heat that eventually came up in the lower abdomen even without the breathing exercises sometimes. 

Then life intervened, marriage, child, building a house, further education. As a result, I "only" meditated silently. 

Every day, but the deep states have assumed, probably because of everything that seemed more important at the moment.  

Now everything has stabilized and I'm sitting here with many books I've devoured, a number of forum reports and Videos. I understand what it's about, but there so many different ways, I just don't know which way is the best for me to go, or I don't know in which direction I have to start. I may have read too much and there was too much rubbish, you can hardly google the word m**ai anymore, unfortunately this video by the Blair brothers is the driver of a lot of searching people for it and it also fascinated me. However, that's not my goal, healing one time but this also far away. 

 

I've seen a ton of births and it sucks that not a single child came with an instruction manual. We literally don't know how we work. Had these teachings ever been lost (and there are probably thousands) it would be impossible to stumble across them by accident.  

 

My question to you is, have any of you found an operating manual? Joke

 

Learning theory has become a passion, I love reading as much as some people tune in to Netflix, and I'm glad it's so much in this topic.  That's something I can do. 

But, I would like to start with practice. Since I've been so drawn to the subject, I've been practicing the Wuji position as described by Damo and trying to let my mind sink in my Dan Tien while meditate. I'm also learning Qi Gong and getting to know exercises from this area.

 

I have no idea if that's korrekt, that's my problem. 

 

how I should spend the first few years of practice? I mean the practical exercise.

In other words, how did you start the practice? 

 

Thank you for reading! 

 

 

 

[Trunk]

Welcome!

I've approved your account. 

- Trunk

[awaken]

On 2022/4/13 at 5:45 PM, Pacem92 said:

Hey guys, I've been reading this forum for a few months now and there's a lot to learn here. Unfortunately this is such a massive amount with all the references to teachings, teachers, books, sites and practices that I don't know where to begin.

Briefly about me, I will be 30 in the winter and work as a surgical technical assistant and in an apprenticeship as a non-medical practitioner. I'm very familiar with western medicine, but I'm drawn in a different direction.  

I'm familiar with simple meditation, sitting and stillness, I started 5 years ago and at times it's like "falling" into my body into an extremely dark, like pure black, timeless, silent space. If that happens, 40 - 60 min can easily pass, which feels like 15 min. 

I meditate while sitting on the floor, I can do the lotus seat for a long time without any numbness or anything else, because I often sat in this position as an child and then crawled around on my hands and knees. I also stretch regularly, I can't do splits but maybe one day. 

When I started meditating, I only knew Wim Hof and Tummo Meditation, and that's what I did, meditating outside in winter in shorts, cold showers and ice bath in summer, breathing exercises and so on. That all worked well, I also started to feel the heat that eventually came up in the lower abdomen even without the breathing exercises sometimes. 

Then life intervened, marriage, child, building a house, further education. As a result, I "only" meditated silently. 

Every day, but the deep states have assumed, probably because of everything that seemed more important at the moment.  

Now everything has stabilized and I'm sitting here with many books I've devoured, a number of forum reports and Videos. I understand what it's about, but there so many different ways, I just don't know which way is the best for me to go, or I don't know in which direction I have to start. I may have read too much and there was too much rubbish, you can hardly google the word m**ai anymore, unfortunately this video by the Blair brothers is the driver of a lot of searching people for it and it also fascinated me. However, that's not my goal, healing one time but this also far away. 

 

I've seen a ton of births and it sucks that not a single child came with an instruction manual. We literally don't know how we work. Had these teachings ever been lost (and there are probably thousands) it would be impossible to stumble across them by accident.  

 

My question to you is, have any of you found an operating manual? Joke

 

Learning theory has become a passion, I love reading as much as some people tune in to Netflix, and I'm glad it's so much in this topic.  That's something I can do. 

But, I would like to start with practice. Since I've been so drawn to the subject, I've been practicing the Wuji position as described by Damo and trying to let my mind sink in my Dan Tien while meditate. I'm also learning Qi Gong and getting to know exercises from this area.

 

I have no idea if that's korrekt, that's my problem. 

 

how I should spend the first few years of practice? I mean the practical exercise.

In other words, how did you start the practice? 

 

Thank you for reading! 

 

 

 

 

 

你這是典型的頑空定

 

練習搬運法到一個程度，會產生這種現象，很多人都有這個情形

 

You are a typical stubborn

If you practice the handling method to a certain extent, this phenomenon will occur. Many people have this situation.

 

頑空定的原因是因為練習搬運法的過程中，用後天的意識太多，因此停留在初禪的一心狀態。

但是此時氣已經走完了路線。

所以就會停在這個什麼都沒有的空洞狀態。

此時如果放開這個一心的狀態，就很容易會進入幻境。

如果沒有放開，就會停在空洞狀態。

但是這並非是入定。

 

The reason for the stubborn emptiness is that in the process of practicing the transfer method, the acquired consciousness is too much, so it stays in the one-minded state of the first jhana.

But by this time the Qi had already gone its way.

So it will stop in this empty state of nothing.

At this time, if you let go of this one-minded state, it is easy to enter an illusion.

If you don't let go, it will stop in a hollow state.

But this is not Samadhi.

Edited April 14, 2022 by awaken

[Pacem92]

Okay, thank you for the answer!

That probably means that my approach is not the best :/ 

I regret having found this topic so late.

 

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no opportunity to establish personal contact with someone who is familiar with it and could show me how I should approach it.  We don't have many TCM doctors, and many of them are more fake than real TCM doctors. Some people who offer acupuncture here have never heard of Dan Tien and that's a very sad thing.  These "doctors" may have held one or two seminars on where and how to prick the needles.  With no heart or mind behind it.  

 

So the simple silent meditation is useless for me?  

 

I don't quite understand what you mean by stubbornness.

Because of the lack of knowledge when I started?  

I am happy to accept any help and would be happy to have my opinion corrected. I don't have problems with correct my opinion, because that's how progress work.

 

At the moment I don't have any opinions, because I just don't have the background information.

I wish I had a little instruction on how to start now, that makes me more flexible in this regard because I'm open to help.  

But maybe I misunderstood you.

 

Do you have any tips for me on how best to start and avoid mistakes?  

 

Thank you for your feedback!

[awaken]

跟你沒關係，真正的丹道被搬運法扭曲，已經是一種常態。

所以你找不到真正的丹道，是很正常的。

除非你能對意識的演化很用心，否則你很難發現意識的演化在入定佔了很重要的地位。

我也不知道如何把『頑空定』翻譯成正確的英文。

因為我用的是google自動翻譯。

可能會翻成很奇怪的英文。

It has nothing to do with you, the real Dan Dao is distorted by the transport method, which is already a normal state.

So it's normal that you can't find the real Dan Dao.

Unless you are very attentive to the evolution of consciousness, it is very difficult for you to find that the evolution of consciousness plays a very important role in meditation.

I also don't know how to translate "Yankongding" into correct English.

Because I use google automatic translation.

It may be translated into very strange English.

 

在黃帝內經當中，針刺的效果是排在砭石的後面。

但是因為針刺能夠為治療者節省大量的時間。

不像砭石很花治療者的時間。

所以針刺被應用的比砭石廣泛太多了。

 

In the Yellow Emperor's Internal Classic, the effect of acupuncture is ranked behind the Bianstone.

But because acupuncture can save a lot of time for the therapist.

Unlike Bianstone, it takes a lot of the healer's time.

Therefore, acupuncture is used more widely than Bianstone.

 

簡單的靜心對你不是沒用，而是你現在使用的方法，讓你卡在一種比較粗淺的狀態，沒辦法往更深的狀態演化。

 

如果你要演化，你就得放棄『控制』。

你得改用『覺察』。

去覺察你的每一個起心動念。

覺察你的心念是否有想要去控制你的氣。

只要你的心念有細微的企圖想要去控制什麼。

這種控制的心態，都會阻礙你演化。

 

Simple meditation is not useless for you, but the method you are using now makes you stuck in a relatively superficial state, and there is no way to evolve into a deeper state.

If you want to evolve, you have to give up "control".

You have to use "awareness" instead.

Be aware of your every thought.

Be aware of whether your mind wants to control your qi.

As long as your mind has a subtle attempt to control something.

This control mentality will hinder your evolution.

Edited April 14, 2022 by awaken

[Pacem92]

Erwachen sagte vor 56 Minuten:

跟你沒關係，真正的丹道被搬運法扭曲，已經是一種常態。

所以你找不到真正的丹道，是很正常的。

除非你能對意識的演化很用心，否則你很難發現意識的演化在入定佔了很重要的地位。

我也不知道如何把『頑空定』翻譯成正確的英文。

因為我用的是google自動翻譯。

可能會翻成很奇怪的英文。

Es hat nichts mit dir zu tun, das echte Dan Dao wird durch die Transportmethode verzerrt, was bereits ein normaler Zustand ist.

Es ist auch normal, dass Sie den echten Dan Dao nicht finden können.

Wenn Sie der Evolution des Bewusstseins nicht sehr aufmerksam sind, ist es sehr schwierig für Sie festzustellen, dass die Evolution des Bewusstseins eine sehr wichtige Rolle in der Meditation spielt.

Ich weiß auch nicht, wie man "Yankongding" ins korrekt Englisch übersetzt.

Weil ich die automatische Übersetzung von Google verwende.

Es kann in sehr seltsames Englisch übersetzt werden.

 

 

 

I am happy about everyone who tries to support me and I am very grateful for that!

 I try to translate your language also through other translators, into other languages and in single sections to get the gist of it.  Everything okay.  Hope it works

 My goal right now is not to get back into those deep states unless it's part of the training and it's good for me.

 I want to get a feel for my Dantien, build it up and take care of it.  Build a foundation.  I'm currently learning a lot of theory about all this, but I lack the courage to choose a path in practical training.

 I read very often that someone did something wrong, which led to the training having to be interrupted or even stopped.  For something that comes with decades of training, that's a terrible fact.  I'm very disciplined and curious, making a mistake that prevents me from progressing in such a stunning area would be torture.

 Of course I've read a lot of approaches on how to get started, but there's no comparison when you read through a lot than when someone who is already there shows you the way where you want to go.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Pacem92
Forgot to translate

[awaken]

4 minutes ago, Pacem92 said:

I am happy about everyone who tries to support me and I am very grateful for that!  

 

I try to translate your language through other translators too, into other languages and in individual sections in order to understand the quintessence.  Everything okay. Hope it works

 

My goal at the moment is not to get into these deep states again, unless it is part of the training and is good for me.  

 

I would like to get a feeling for my dan tien, build it up and cultivate it. Build a foundation.  I am currently learning a lot of theory about all this, but I lack the courage to decide on a path in terms of practical training.  

I read very often that someone did something wrong, which meant that the training had to be interrupted or even stopped.  For something that comes with decades of training, that's a horrible fact.  I am very disciplined and inquisitive, making a mistake that prevents me from progressing in such a breathtaking field would be a torture. 

 

Of course I have already read many approaches on how to start, but it is no comparison if you read through a lot than if someone who is already there where you want to be shows you the way. 

 

 

你進入『頑空定』的原因正是因為你把注意力放在下丹田。

所以你如果捨棄『頑空定』，只練下丹田。

那結果也是一樣的。

你同樣卡在初禪，而且卡的地方比『頑空定』更淺。

就層次來說，『頑空定』還比『下丹田的氣』更深一些。

 

所以問題不是出在『頑空定』。

問題是你把注意力鎖定在下丹田。

頑空定只是『結果』

The reason you enter into stubborn emptiness is precisely because you focus on the lower dantian.

Therefore, if you give up "Stubborn Empty Daze", you can only practice Dantian.

The result is the same.

You are also stuck in the first jhāna, and the place where you get stuck is shallower than that of stubborn emptiness.

As far as the level is concerned, "Stubborn Empty Ding" is deeper than "The Qi of Lower Dantian".

So the problem is not "stubborn emptiness".

The problem is that you lock your attention to the lower dantian.

Stubbornness is just a "result"

 

真正的問題是你把你的注意力鎖定在一個特定的範圍。

這違反了所有的修煉法則。

 

The real problem is that you lock your attention to a specific area.

This violates all cultivation natural rules.

Edited April 14, 2022 by awaken

[Pacem92]

7 minutes ago, awaken said:

 

 

你進入『頑空定』的原因正是因為你把注意力放在下丹田。

所以你如果捨棄『頑空定』，只練下丹田。

那結果也是一樣的。

你同樣卡在初禪，而且卡的地方比『頑空定』更淺。

就層次來說，『頑空定』還比『下丹田的氣』更深一些。

 

所以問題不是出在『頑空定』。

問題是你把注意力鎖定在下丹田。

頑空定只是『結果』

The reason you enter into stubborn emptiness is precisely because you focus on the lower dantian.

Therefore, if you give up "Stubborn Empty Daze", you can only practice Dantian.

The result is the same.

You are also stuck in the first jhāna, and the place where you get stuck is shallower than that of stubborn emptiness.

As far as the level is concerned, "Stubborn Empty Ding" is deeper than "The Qi of Lower Dantian".

So the problem is not "stubborn emptiness".

The problem is that you lock your attention to the lower dantian.

Stubbornness is just a "result"

 

真正的問題是你把你的注意力鎖定在一個特定的範圍。

這違反了所有的修煉法則。

 

The real problem is that you lock your attention to a specific area.

This violates all cultivation natural rules.

I've read this so many times, but only now understood it 🙈

 

Thanks!!!

That's exactly what I mean.

 

How do you affect what you cultivate by not focusing on anything? Is this what is meant by saying letting the mind sink into the dan tien by its own weight?

[awaken]

9 minutes ago, Pacem92 said:

I've read this so many times, but only now understood it 🙈

 

Thanks!!!

That's exactly what I mean.

 

How do you affect what you cultivate by not focusing on anything? Is this what is meant by saying letting the mind sink into the dan tien by its own weight?

 

我寫了超過一千五百篇，如果你可以看一下，我會很感激你。

 

心不用沈入丹田。

 

心是用來轉化的。

煉精化氣，練氣化神，練神還虛

 

這是一連串的過程

I've written over fifteen hundred articles, and I'd appreciate it if you could take a look.

The heart does not need to sink into the dantian.

The heart is for transformation.

Refining essence into qi, practising qi into spirit, practising spirit is still empty

It's a series of processes

[Pacem92]

11 minutes ago, awaken said:

 

我寫了超過一千五百篇，如果你可以看一下，我會很感激你。

 

心不用沈入丹田。

 

心是用來轉化的。

煉精化氣，練氣化神，練神還虛

 

這是一連串的過程

I've written over fifteen hundred articles, and I'd appreciate it if you could take a look.

The heart does not need to sink into the dantian.

The heart is for transformation.

Refining essence into qi, practising qi into spirit, practising spirit is still empty

It's a series of processes

Of course, thank you!

I don't mean the heart,

I mean the mind, our consciousness (not quite right but maybe in other words?)

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

The best thing you can do is find a good teacher, not listen to random people even on this site. For stillness and neigong I would recommend Rudi‘s Authentic Neigong, and for qigong I would recommend Sifu Terry Dunn’s Flying Phoenix Chi Kung. Check out these links for more info, they are good teachers with very potent systems:

 

https://authenticneigong.com/
 

http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

The way you have been meditating with your focus on the lower dantien is fine. Another reason to get a teacher is so they can help you out if you manage to do the wrong thing and get a qi deviation or worse and can correct your mistakes. If you do it solo just following random advice from strangers you might not be able to fix yourself.

[Earl Grey]

7 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Another reason to get a teacher is so they can help you out if you manage to do the wrong thing and get a qi deviation or worse and can correct your mistakes. If you do it solo just following random advice from strangers you might not be able to fix yourself.

 

Not to mention that with the right guidance, you'll be able to advance further and deeper instead of randomly assembling often incompatible advice and practices....often overcomplicating already simple things.

[awaken]

20 hours ago, Pacem92 said:

Of course, thank you!

I don't mean the heart,

I mean the mind, our consciousness (not quite right but maybe in other words?)

 

在丹道裡面的用字應該是『神』

『神』的意思比較像是『覺』

氣是跟著覺轉變的

這才是丹道的精神

你多看一些丹道的經文

你就會知道那些氣功大師講的東西根本跟丹道無關

所以我稱呼那些氣功大師為搬運法

因為他們教的根本不是丹道

如果你要練的是丹道

千萬不要跟那些人練

他們會把你導向非常錯誤的道路

 

The word used in Dan Dao should be "Shen"

"Shen" means more like "consciousness"

Qi changes with consciousness

This is the spirit of Dan Dao

You should read more scriptures of Dan Dao

You will know that what those qigong masters say has nothing to do with alchemy at all

That's why I call those qigong masters "handling method"

Because what they teach is not Dan Dao at all

If you want to practice Dando

Don't practice with those people

they will lead you down a very wrong path

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

13 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Not to mention that with the right guidance, you'll be able to advance further and deeper instead of randomly assembling often incompatible advice and practices....often overcomplicating already simple things.

Yup, a trusted teacher who learned from a trusted master is much better than someone randomly telling people what to do on the internet. 

[Pacem92]

Thank you all so much for the advice and information!

 

I had already looked around and considered going to a teacher. Unfortunately, that would still be online for me, I live in central Europe and in my immediate vicinity and everything within the possible distance for regular meetings is not available here.  So the information comes from someone "on the internet" anyway, but of course I understand what you mean when you say I need a trainer.

 

Thank you guys! 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, Pacem92 said:

Thank you all so much for the advice and information!

 

I had already looked around and considered going to a teacher. Unfortunately, that would still be online for me, I live in central Europe and in my immediate vicinity and everything within the possible distance for regular meetings is not available here.  So the information comes from someone "on the internet" anyway, but of course I understand what you mean when you say I need a trainer.

 

Thank you guys! 

Don’t worry, we all learn online here. We just mean learn from a proper teacher, rather than doing meditations that random people post in forums.

 

Check out the teachers I posted for good online lessons. 

[awaken]

On 2022/4/16 at 2:55 AM, Pacem92 said:

Thank you all so much for the advice and information!

 

I had already looked around and considered going to a teacher. Unfortunately, that would still be online for me, I live in central Europe and in my immediate vicinity and everything within the possible distance for regular meetings is not available here.  So the information comes from someone "on the internet" anyway, but of course I understand what you mean when you say I need a trainer.

 

Thank you guys! 

 

 

小心氣功商業掮客

 

我在ＱＱ看過很多這種的

 

大部分都是有分紅的

 

想不到這邊也有

 

Beware of Qigong Business Brokers

I have seen a lot of this on QQ

Most are dividends

Unexpectedly, there are