Video as an acceptable form of evidence

[silent thunder]

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Edited April 27, 2022 by silent thunder

[Iskote]

55 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Hmmm .... your example started off with YOU dropping the hammer on our feet  .... and summarised  with us 'being careful not to drop a heavy  hammer on our own feet' .   ?

 

Interesting .

 

Anyway,  why is the feeling of  pain the regulator of reality  ... when any feeling can be illusory as well ?

 

 

Regarding consensus reality , that's a better point .  I remember hearing a talk from a Buddhist monk on 'illusion and reality ' , afterwards I was talking to him and he again bought up the points he made in the talk . I mentioned the point about consensus reality  and he responded with  ;  " Well, ....  yes, there IS that too . "

 

 

 

 

 

One can muse about whether physical consensus reality is ultimately real or not, or whether our perception of physical reality is at all an accurate reflection of some 'absolute reality' or not; but, from a practical point of view, it is advisable to not drop a heavy hammer on your foot or walk off the edge of a high cliff.  I think that should be pretty clear.    Going from talking about whether what is shown in a video can be trusted or not (trusted in our consensus physical reality) to whether anything we perceive is ultimately trustworthy or not, is mixing apples and elephants.  Whether any given person can understand or accept that difference or not, is not really a concern for me, however.  

 

[Shadao]

This entire thread started as a simple question/talk and now we're in the realms of questioning reality, existence, and etc.

Literally, from a simple seed grew a tree that branched out quite a lot, the wonders of discussions...

[silent thunder]

Indra's Net and the nature of 'consensus'.

[Klinsly]

On 4/14/2022 at 4:56 PM, Pak_Satrio said:

I voted no, because a video by itself can not be considered acceptable evidence since it can be faked. BUT a video is good for leading people to seek out whoever performed whatever feat was shown so they can experience it for themselves to see if it’s true.

 

This is a Great point. For instance since it already went there. The video of John Chang lead to Kostas traveling to study with him which led to The Magus of Java book.  Me seeing the video on YouTube years back led to me noticing the book in a metaphysical book store. Then reading it which changed my life by getting me into Qigong, and drastically shifting my worldview.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

19 minutes ago, Klinsly said:

 

This is a Great point. For instance since it already went there. The video of John Chang lead to Kostas traveling to study with him which led to The Magus of Java book.  Me seeing the video on YouTube years back led to me noticing the book in a metaphysical book store. Then reading it which changed my life by getting me into Qigong, and drastically shifting my worldview.

That book brought me here, so I'm grateful for that even if not everything in the book is true. It led me on this journey to discover the systems that I practice now. The same thing can be said about videos (even if they are faked). If it leads you to something real then it is good. We should focus more on what we can learn from a video rather than argue if it is real or not.

[Iliketurtles]

On 4/24/2022 at 1:01 PM, Iskote said:

 

In and of itself, videos (and pictures) are not sufficient to be taken as solid evidence that some phenomenon is real. Aside from sleight of hand and similar physical tricks used by stage magicians and in movies, technology in the form of software and apps for editing and modifying videos and photos keeps improving, and is readily available to most anyone these days. We have been beyond the point of being able to trust videos and pictures alone, on their own, for quite a few years now. However, video evidence in conjunction with other forms of evidence which adds further support to what is shown in the video or photo can start to add more weight to what is shown. For example, statements from people who have witnessed it in person can start to add more weight to what is shown in video or in a picture if you have some way to reasonably judge the credibility and reliability of the witness or witnesses. Seeing such things yourself in person, can add even more weight to something being legit, but of course a crafty person can often easily fool many people that something is real when in fact it is a trick.

 

Also, in regards to stuff like 'empty force', some people are very suggestible and therefore it is very hard to rule out suggestibility (subject is unconsciously cooperating with the other person due to being very suggestible). For example, one 'empty force tai chi 'master' I visited in person in the past could make some of his students fall off balance by just waving his hands around, but it had no effect on me when he tried it on me, and I felt nothing at all when he waved his hands at me. I could only conclude that what was going on had more to do with suggestibility of some of his students than anything to do with qi. 

 

As an example of how further evidence on top of video evidence can potentially hold more weight, evidence wise, in the case of the late John Chang of mo pai, several westerners over the years have witnessed in person some of the things he could do and some made videos or wrote about it, and several have stated that they believe it was real. In my own case, I have personally witnessed in person some similar phenomena from a few other different qigong masters over the years, and I have no doubt that what I personally witnessed was legit, (feeling strong qi projected at me from a distance, feeling like I was being electrocuted when touched, and seeing telekinesis performed right in front of me just a few feet away), so my personal opinion is what John Chang showed in video clips is probably legit. That is just my opinion though, in the end. I have personally experienced and seen enough evidence of such things that I have no doubt that such things are legit phenomena, but the legit stuff seems to be fairly rare. Most of what you see on Youtube and similar though is likely fake, as most people posting such videos are either doing it as a joke, or they are seeking attention, or they are trying to make money from it on their monetized Youtube channel, or through some expensive 'online courses' or similar, since such types of videos tend to get large amounts of views and attract a lot of attention. So, within all the muck and mire of fake videos and photos and fake or self-deluded 'masters' out there, I have personally found that there are some real gems, although the gems are quite rare, and it can take a lot of time and effort to find the rare gems amidst all the mountains of muck.:) 

 

As an example of how easy it is to fool people with videos, the following video was made by some digital graphics arts students as a course project, and it fooled millions of viewers when it was first posted before the channel owners updated the video comments to explain that the video was not real, and was made as a digital graphics course project.  This video was made in 2012 by students! The technology for editing videos and photos has improved quite a bit since 2012, so just imagine how easily an experienced digital graphics arts person could fool people these days.  : 

Golden Eagle Snatches Kid - YouTube

 

P.S. How do I make a Youtube video show up here in a video player box, instead of just appearing as a link? 

 

 

 

Certainly investigating a matter first hand would be ideal. 

 

Short of that though, bringing in a team of scientists and medical doctors who do their best to rule out fraud occurring and capturing it all on video is the best we can do. 

 

Video is important because it takes things a notch above personal testimony, as it allows us direct access to what the people present themselves saw and witnessed. 

 

The human memory is fallible, and the mind filters what it sees, selectively remembers things, bias is a very real thing. 

 

Video captures what happened, exactly as it happened. 

 

Certainly people are manipulated by false evidence and people are even convicted of crimes based on false evidence. 

 

This is a human limitation. 

 

It is important that we base our beliefs on the best evidence available to us, and that we constantly re-evaluate our beliefs based on the new evidence. 

 

We will never get it right 100% of the time, but it is important we do the best we can to be reasonable, and rational.

 

Yes video can be doctored, but so too can personal testimony be false, and so too can all other forms of evidence be altered and faked.  

 

If you are trying to make the case that we cannot accept anything anyone says ever, or any evidence which backs up their personal testimony ever then I would think it would be very hard for such a militant skeptic to live a normal life in this society.