How do we know?

[helpfuldemon]

There is so much in Magick and mysticism that cannot be proven.  We think that we know what is what but the truth is, that it might just be the natural course of events that someone reacts to our impulses, or something happens for no real reason.  It's nice to think we have mystical insight, but really, it is something of a delusion to believe that it is anything other than making the right choice to acquire the right response.    How many times has your magick failed?  That would be a better measure of its ability.

 

They say "God is love" but how do we know?  How do we know that God loves us?  Look around at the world and history and tell me that God, being infinite and powerful and able to make anything a reality, loves us!  "Oh", you could say; "God wants us to grow and learn on our own", and that might be true, but at what time will this God take action in our favor?  Surely throughout history this has happened, right?  Why wouldn't God take action?  Is it love to allow war, death, disease, accidents?  Perhaps God just set us in motion and allows us to self govern without taking action, is that a loving God?  

 

Who says God has to love us?  But, what good is a God that takes no action?  How can God love all the billions of people in the history of the world?  How can you say you have a personal relationship with this God?  Just one more delusion of the mystic.

[old3bob]

Besides only trying to figure out human like motives of the WHY's and how's that God may or may not be exercising...

we could also include an analogy that sees that God is not limited to human like motives and for such a case lets use the  Sun in the sky as a stand in for God.  For instance lets say the sun just is - it is a source of great radiating energies including warmth and light which in those ways is not questioned or in doubt as to giving life to countless creatures on earth under varying conditions.  So further how could such a source of energy be blamed in a human way for what happens with the very wide ranging derivatives of its energies that are distant to it or become blocked off?   Also what creature of the earth could take the full force of the suns energies at a distance of zero? ....    

[dawn90]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:06 AM, helpfuldemon said:

Who says God has to love us?  But, what good is a God that takes no action?  How can God love all the billions of people in the history of the world?  How can you say you have a personal relationship with this God?  Just one more delusion of the mystic.

 

God is law - and the law has to be obeyed.

I see God as a type of energy that is the law incarnated into energy form the holy spirit. Once the law is clear to you in your heart. Then your relationship with God, will be cemented in the sense that you would have understood the law.

Which is morals and values.

The will to be a good person. Why you must be it. I personally don't really believe in a physical God, but a type of energy. That I'm beginning to think is the blue type energy I've talked about in my most famous thread "the blue aura." You feel that way when you have it: God.

Edited April 20, 2022 by dawn90

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

There is so much in Magick and mysticism that cannot be proven.  We think that we know what is what but the truth is, that it might just be the natural course of events that someone reacts to our impulses, or something happens for no real reason.  It's nice to think we have mystical insight, but really, it is something of a delusion to believe that it is anything other than making the right choice to acquire the right response.    How many times has your magick failed?  That would be a better measure of its ability.

 

They say "God is love" but how do we know?  How do we know that God loves us?  Look around at the world and history and tell me that God, being infinite and powerful and able to make anything a reality, loves us!  "Oh", you could say; "God wants us to grow and learn on our own", and that might be true, but at what time will this God take action in our favor?  Surely throughout history this has happened, right?  Why wouldn't God take action?  Is it love to allow war, death, disease, accidents?  Perhaps God just set us in motion and allows us to self govern without taking action, is that a loving God?  

 

Who says God has to love us?  But, what good is a God that takes no action?  How can God love all the billions of people in the history of the world?  How can you say you have a personal relationship with this God?  Just one more delusion of the mystic.

 

 

Your protest .... which I think is valid  .... is more in the area of religion .

 

For example , asking " How many times has your magic failed?"  is an entirely different question to the rest of the post which is about religious ' theology / philosophy '  .... unless you are conflating the two subjects  of magic and  religion . I wouldn't advise that at all .  And the specific term 'Magick' which you used , by definition  can't 'fail you' , as it is  a process of learning about life  .... however, an individual could fail the 'curriculum' , but that is not the system 'failing for you ' .

 

Well, you could see it that way I suppose :   "  That curriculum was no good .... it failed me !  "       

 

If you think 'Magick' is like doing 'magic tricks'  or displaying siddhis , then yes, it could certainly 'fail you .'

[helpfuldemon]

It does little good to speculate upon a God that is invisible and silent.  You could say that the Jews are correct and that God revealed Himself to them, but why would you take the word of one person or group?  It makes more sense to speculate upon this God and come to your own conclusions.  Certainly God doesn't have to be the creator, but it makes sense that there is one, though what we were created for and with what are we taken care of, who can say?  It seems that we were made to simply experience life, and we must govern our world by ourselves, for there doesn't appear to be a God of justice like they say.  Better to watch animals at play to decide our reason for being.  Still, as I said, what good is a God that takes no actions?  But, as it appears, that is the case, for there is so much that a God needs to do, especially if He is a God of love.

[Nungali]

On 18/04/2022 at 9:06 PM, helpfuldemon said:

There is so much in Magick and mysticism that cannot be proven.  We think that we know what is what but the truth is, that it might just be the natural course of events that someone reacts to our impulses, or something happens for no real reason.  It's nice to think we have mystical insight, but really, it is something of a delusion to believe that it is anything other than making the right choice to acquire the right response.    How many times has your magick failed?  That would be a better measure of its ability.

 

 

For me that isnt the issue , I dont care .   Lets get mundane for a moment  ;  let's say I 'do magic' to get a lot of money .  I get a lot of money, from one source or another ; for one reason or another  ... it doesnt matter to me when or how, my intention was fulfilled , I dont care if it rained down from heaven, if  I found gold,  I got a raise or had a loan returned .

 

if you focus too much on trying to prove magic one way or the others ... you will be caught in a sticky spiders web .  That will be your focus, other than manifesting what you will .

 

And if you remember the definition of 'magick' includes 'mundane abilities'  inspired by knoweldge understanding and wisdom .... according to the founder of the concept  .... a good carpenter is 'doing magick' .

 

 

On 18/04/2022 at 9:06 PM, helpfuldemon said:

 

They say "God is love" but how do we know?  How do we know that God loves us?  Look around at the world and history and tell me that God, being infinite and powerful and able to make anything a reality, loves us!  "Oh", you could say; "God wants us to grow and learn on our own", and that might be true, but at what time will this God take action in our favor?  Surely throughout history this has happened, right?  Why wouldn't God take action?  Is it love to allow war, death, disease, accidents?  Perhaps God just set us in motion and allows us to self govern without taking action, is that a loving God?  

 

Maybe you should stop giving so much credence  as to what 'they' say .   This  'they' ,  and this concept ,  seem to be influencing you unduly

 

On 18/04/2022 at 9:06 PM, helpfuldemon said:

 

Who says God has to love us?  But, what good is a God that takes no action?  How can God love all the billions of people in the history of the world?  How can you say you have a personal relationship with this God?  Just one more delusion of the mystic.

 

 

 

Look, who cares ... its a false programme , you need to download .  . . and delete .     Continuously downloading with OUT  deleting and reprogramming aint doin you no good !

 

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

It does little good to speculate upon a God that is invisible and silent.  You could say that the Jews are correct and that God revealed Himself to them, but why would you take the word of one person or group?  It makes more sense to speculate upon this God and come to your own conclusions.  Certainly God doesn't have to be the creator, but it makes sense that there is one, though what we were created for and with what are we taken care of, who can say?  It seems that we were made to simply experience life, and we must govern our world by ourselves, for there doesn't appear to be a God of justice like they say.  Better to watch animals at play to decide our reason for being.  Still, as I said, what good is a God that takes no actions?  But, as it appears, that is the case, for there is so much that a God needs to do, especially if He is a God of love.

 

 

God was created by man in his own image ..... so of course the concept  will be faulty , prejudiced, biased .... and have all the failings of Men .

[awaken]

幸好我的文化沒有從小灌輸我上帝是唯一的真理

 

Luckily my culture didn't teach me that God is the only truth

 

 

[stirling]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:06 AM, helpfuldemon said:

There is so much in Magick and mysticism that cannot be proven.  We think that we know what is what but the truth is, that it might just be the natural course of events that someone reacts to our impulses, or something happens for no real reason.  It's nice to think we have mystical insight, but really, it is something of a delusion to believe that it is anything other than making the right choice to acquire the right response.    How many times has your magick failed?  That would be a better measure of its ability.

 

They say "God is love" but how do we know?  How do we know that God loves us?  Look around at the world and history and tell me that God, being infinite and powerful and able to make anything a reality, loves us!  "Oh", you could say; "God wants us to grow and learn on our own", and that might be true, but at what time will this God take action in our favor?  Surely throughout history this has happened, right?  Why wouldn't God take action?  Is it love to allow war, death, disease, accidents?  Perhaps God just set us in motion and allows us to self govern without taking action, is that a loving God?  

 

Who says God has to love us?  But, what good is a God that takes no action?  How can God love all the billions of people in the history of the world?  How can you say you have a personal relationship with this God?  Just one more delusion of the mystic.

 

Try this: Instead of imagining that when things don't go your way that "God" doesn't love you, consider the idea that our ideas about how the past "should" have been or future "should" just serve to illustrate that our imagined past/future realities are simply fictions. They were never as you imagine them, and never turn out to be exactly as you imagined. What is real is always THIS moment. The moment where there is something to DO about things is always now.

 

Every time we find ourselves at odds with how things are, or pine for things as we wish they were, consider the idea that the "universe" is showing you that you are lost in a delusion. This pointing out IS love... IS kindness.

 

If you want to wield magick, do so with the intention to help others, instead of attempting to manipulate reality to suit yourself. Better still, stop trying to contrive a reality that you *think* will make you happy. Let go of success and failure. War, death, disease, and accidents are reality until you see that they aren't. Accept them as reality NOW. When there is the opportunity to participate in the alleviating the suffering of others TAKE it.

 

The fabric of this reality doesn't act in anyone's favor. It looks this way because of how you see it. 

 

Quote

 

Then the venerable Sariputra said to the Brahma Sikhin, "As for me, O Brahma, I see this great earth, with its highs and lows, its thorns, its precipices, its peaks, and its abysses, as if it were entirely filled with ordure."

 

Brahma Sikhin replied, "The fact that you see such a buddha-field as this as if it were so impure, reverend Sariputra, is a sure sign that there are highs and lows in your mind and that your positive thought in regard to the buddha-gnosis is not pure either. Reverend Sariputra, those whose minds are impartial toward all living beings and whose positive thoughts toward the buddha-gnosis are pure see this buddha-field as perfectly pure."

 

Thereupon the Lord touched the ground of this billion-world-galactic universe with his big toe, and suddenly it was transformed into a huge mass of precious jewels, a magnificent array of many hundreds of thousands of clusters of precious gems, until it resembled the universe of the Tathagata Ratnavyuha, called Anantagunaratnavyuha. 

 

Everyone in the entire assembly was filled with wonder, each perceiving himself seated on a throne of jeweled lotuses.

Then, the Buddha said to the venerable Sariputra, "Sariputra, do you see this splendor of the virtues of the buddha-field?"

 

Sariputra replied, "I see it, Lord! Here before me is a display of splendor such as I never before heard of or beheld!"

 

The Buddha said, "Sariputra, this buddha-field is always thus pure, but the Tathagata makes it appear to be spoiled by many faults, in order to bring about the maturity of the inferior living beings. For example, Sariputra, the gods of the Trayastrimsa heaven all take their food from a single precious vessel, yet the nectar which nourishes each one differs according to the differences of the merits each has accumulated. Just so, Sariputra, living beings born in the same buddha-field see the splendor of the virtues of the buddha-fields of the Buddhas according to their own degrees of purity." - Buddha, VIMALAKIRTI NIRDESA SUTRA

 

 

[Daniel]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:06 AM, helpfuldemon said:

They say "God is love"

 

Maybe it would be helpful to consider God is more than just love.  Saying simply "God is love" puts a limit on something which is limitless.

 

That said, if you need an example of God's love, there is always forebearance and omnipresence.  God's tolerance is, was, and always will be with you.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Daniel

[helpfuldemon]

In my life, I cannot say God has been benevolent and tolerant of me.  Someone out there in the Universe has cursed me, whether it was God or not, I cannot say, but it might as well have been, for there was no God to protect me from it.  

[Lairg]

Many years ago I was very deep in meditation when a voice spoke to me.  It was immediately apparent, without thought or analysis, that the speaker was God.

 

Unfortunately when I came out of my deep meditation I did not recall what He said.

 

The voice had no overt agenda or quality.  It was just telling me something

[Sherman Krebbs]

Its easy to have something to point to, such as a God, as the source of suffering, pleasure, joy, etc.  That however disregards our own karmic role in responding to events as they unfold in our life.  The Dao has no compassion.  If one falls from a high place, one will experience suffering and maybe die.  While one can't control everything that happens in life, my experience is its usually best not to thrash against the current.   Although easier said than done.  Pain and suffering are hard to deal with, but a necessary part of life.  A river must pass over many rocky ravines and waterfalls in order to reach the sea.      

[awaken]

2 hours ago, Lairg said:

Many years ago I was very deep in meditation when a voice spoke to me.  It was immediately apparent, without thought or analysis, that the speaker was God.

 

Unfortunately when I came out of my deep meditation I did not recall what He said.

 

The voice had no overt agenda or quality.  It was just telling me something

 

通常這種現象，在修煉當中稱之為『雜念』

 

屬於『想蘊』的一種

 

Usually, this phenomenon is called "distracted thoughts" in cultivation.

A kind of "Saṃjñā"

[Daniel]

8 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

In my life, I cannot say God has been benevolent and tolerant of me.  Someone out there in the Universe has cursed me, whether it was God or not, I cannot say, but it might as well have been, for there was no God to protect me from it.  

 

It could be a predisposition to mental illness then a triggering event or events like studying occult topics.

[dawn90]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:36 AM, helpfuldemon said:

Still, as I said, what good is a God that takes no actions?  But, as it appears, that is the case, for there is so much that a God needs to do, especially if He is a God of love.

 

If God came to your aid you would love his aid more than you love him.

You'd see him as a fixer, he would change your heart and you'd start asking for things instead of being greatful.

His job, is to mold you in the image of him. To make you reach him, and that comes through bearing the cross.

 

If he helped you, Helpfuldemon.

He'd rid you of the opportunity to reafirm your faith in him.

You'd lose Christ and then wonder why you're not getting any closer. Because you wouldn't if he did that.

The way he shows his love is not by making you feel alright; but by forcing you to be an alright person, in the sense of being a decent human being.

And throught that: you'll feel his love eventually.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by dawn90

[Nungali]

Bah ! ....... HUMBUG ! 

 

 

This damn 'God programme ' some of you got going  !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, dawn90 said:

If God came to your aid you would love his aid more than you love him.

 

It seems to me that the common concept of God is that God is separate from His manifested body that humans call Existence.

 

In the microcosm, does the cell in the end of your finger wish that you, its God, would come to its aid?   Would wishing that help the cell?

Edited May 5, 2022 by Lairg

[silent thunder]

God says...__________

 

Curious that it's always a human talking.

[Feral]

My solution would be to quit thinking of god as something outside yourself. In fact, quit worrying about god altogether and look to your higher self. If you want to be a righteous person, then go out and make it so, don't wait for god to make the first move. Maybe I got it all wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the compass of  virtue is written into your own spirit.

 

[Daniel]

We live in the material world where God's will is completely occluded in the laws of nature.

[Lairg]

15 minutes ago, Daniel said:

We live in the material world where God's will is completely occluded in the laws of nature.

 

 

Oh dear!   I was hoping that The Source of All had delegated me something to do.   After all if I am a son of God, surely I must inherit part of the family business

Edited May 6, 2022 by Lairg

[helpfuldemon]

10 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

 

Oh dear!   I was hoping that The Source of All had delegated me something to do.   After all if I am a son of God, surely I must inherit part of the family business

Yes, that is what I believed, and I feel like a fool for doing so.  It has only been in the last couple of years that it dawns on me that it is ridiculous for me to think such things.  It was hard to avoid feeling that way, as the God was so active in my life.  But now, I see that there is no reason for a God to do this.  I have a mental illness diagnosis but I don't discount the interference of a Divine being.  Still, how stupid!  The whole thing is dumb.  There is no virtue in suffering, for if there were, then causing suffering would be Good.

Edited May 6, 2022 by helpfuldemon

[dawn90]

19 hours ago, Lairg said:

After all if I am a son of God, surely I must inherit part of the family business

 

But your father would drive it down on you on how to handle the business correctly.

He'd make sure you're ready, and then say.

Lairg.

I trust you: I taught you all I know and you've proven to be worthy otherwise why have a religion if God is supposed to do everything. I believe Christianity's point is that you don't inherit anything but you work for it.

 

At the time of judgement you're judged the same as a poor person if you're rich; and the same as a rich person if you're poor.

I'm just describing what the Bible says. You have to train.

Ascetism.

 

And eventually you'll find God.

 

I think you can always ask yourself the question: why doesn't God, just fix everthing.

Well that's not the Christian God you'll have to find another one.

 

Never has he fixed; everything.

He tends to let people be and try to reach him. Not out of lazyness, or disinterest. But because the way to him is through his son only.

You wouldn't understand what it means to be with him without the experience of being without him.

The same. What does goodness mean without evil.

 

God will reapear in your life, when you least expect it.

And you'll be writing something completely diferent Helpfuldemon I'm sure.

 

Just in the meantime keep that faith in you and be ready.

It's coming.

 

 

[Lairg]

25 minutes ago, dawn90 said:

But your father would drive it down on you on how to handle the business correctly.

 

Traditionally the father would give a small part of the business to the sons/daughters -  in this case a planet - for them to practice on.

 

Humans born after 1995 seem to have much clearer sense of this