How do we know?

[dawn90]

3 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I had thought after the God spoke that I would return to Christianity, so this all came as quite a surprise.

 

Could this be a test?

[helpfuldemon]

I don't see what could be tested, other than my endurance and patience.

[Daniel]

6 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

 "I am the Sephiroth, I am all that is".  

 

The sephirot are vessels, nothing more nothing less.  Whatever it is that said this is misinformed or a liar.

[helpfuldemon]

I thought they were emanations of the One True God of Israel.

[Daniel]

15 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I thought they were emanations of the One True God of Israel.

 

The emanation is ohr-ein-sof, never-ending-light. 

 

"Ohr ("Light" Hebrew: אור; plural: Ohros/Ohrot "Lights" אורות‎) is a central Kabbalistic term in the Jewish mystical tradition. The analogy of physical light is used as a way of describing metaphysical Divine emanations. "

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohr

 

Edit to add:  One way to confirm that the event is a hallucination is if the being's knowledge of the occult matches yours.  If you both were misinformed about the sephirot, then the being is likely a manifestion of your own mind.

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Daniel

[helpfuldemon]

Well it definitely wasn't a hallucination.  When the angel lifted me up I heard "Chesed Chesed" and I had never heard the word Sephiorth or Aiwass before.

[Daniel]

6 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

Well it definitely wasn't a hallucination.  When the angel lifted me up I heard "Chesed Chesed" and I had never heard the word Sephiorth or Aiwass before.

 

Well, the angel was either misinformed or a liar.

[silent thunder]

33 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

Well it definitely wasn't a hallucination.

How did you/could you determine that it definitely was not an hallucination?

 

26 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Well, the angel was either misinformed or a liar.

Same question applies here.  Curious from where you derive your authority and certainty at such a projective assumption of an 'either/or'?

 

Perhaps it's been answered in the previous thread... and perhaps no answer is warranted.

 

The statements prompted my usual questioning of sweeping certainties.  It happens within my own mind many times a day of late.

i used to experience such certainty and that has shifted rather radically, so i ask, because doubt is synonomous with process recently.

 

Feel free to disregard.

Edited May 18, 2022 by silent thunder
altered wording for clarity

[helpfuldemon]

Because these were words I'd neither read nor heard.

[Daniel]

6 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Curious from where you derive your authority and certainty at such a projective assumption of an 'either/or'?

 

The sephirot are attributes.  The Zohar is clear on this.

 

"Woe to anyone who compares Him to any attribute, even to one of His own attributes, "

 

https://www.zohar.com/zohar/Bo/chapters/14

 

A voice claiming "I am the Sephirot, I am all that is" is comparing God to the Attribute.  It's false, not authentic Kabbalah.

[silent thunder]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

 

The sephirot are attributes.  The Zohar is clear on this.

 

"Woe to anyone who compares Him to any attribute, even to one of His own attributes, "

 

https://www.zohar.com/zohar/Bo/chapters/14

 

A voice claiming "I am the Sephirot, I am all that is" is comparing God to the Attribute.  It's false, not authentic Kabbalah.

I am skeptical of such claims to authority of ancient texts, claims of teachers. 

The source is always filtered from the source.  And it's always filtered through a human talking, interpreting, and storytelling.

 

I don't expect others to share this experience.  It's relatively new to me as well (last 7 years or so) and though it's exceedingly welcome, it's disorienting and unpleasant at times.  I see why certain teachers shy prospective students away, given my exprience of late, it's not for the faint.

 

Thanks for sharing your take on it.  While i can't find agreement with this appeal to authority, agreement is not required. 

Be well.

[silent thunder]

My question for a while has been "how do we know" anything?

What in the realm of human knowledge posturing can be claimed with absolute certainty?

 

Though this seems a bit semantically off-topic, forgive my rambling if bothersome and disregard.

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

I am skeptical as well.  When this being said he was the Sephiroth, and that he was all that is, I thought he meant that he was the only thing in existence.  Upon reflection, I think it was the message to research Qabalah, and to realize that the sum total of existence is God.  I don't know if this is acknowledged by Kabbalists or not, but it makes sense to me.  I imagine that at some time in our history a Divine Being gave us some wisdom, but that doesn't mean we have it today.  It could be that all information is man made, but that doesn't mean this being fails to acknowledge what we created and used it as a message to me.  As far as how these visions were received I'd like to think that it was like a digital image transposed on my vision.  I also have dreams that I know I didn't create, and I wonder if we aren't all on some kind of super micro chip and these higher beings work with us, though I can't imagine what kind of life that would be.  I suppose if you can be anything in a dream and interact with other creatures with no consequence to what you do, that it might be entertaining to live like that.  I don't know where these beings reside, probably within every living being?  I can attest that we are made up of more than what we see and know.

Edited May 18, 2022 by helpfuldemon

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

the sum total of existence is God.  I don't know if this is acknowledged by Kabbalists or not, but it makes sense to me.

 

Yes, but it's not full non-duality.  There still exists good and evil, right and wrong, true and false, etc.  Even if all is God, not all is preferred by God.  

[helpfuldemon]

How can you say God isn't non-dual?  In my dreams, good doesn't outweigh evil, and if they are any indication, He is.

[Cobie]

.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Cobie

[helpfuldemon]

I could always chalk up my experience as me contacting the Devil.  After all, I did say "You're not the God of love".  So it could be the Devil, or it could be that I insulted God, and He is punishing me for it.

[Daniel]

14 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

How can you say God isn't non-dual?  In my dreams, good doesn't outweigh evil, and if they are any indication, He is.

 

Some aspects of creation are unintended.  When good was created, it automatically creates evil.  When truth was created falsehood was automatically created.  With mercy comes vengeance, etc.  The intention was to create good, truth, and mercy not evil, falsehood and vengeance.  Therefore God prefers good, truth, and mercy.  The others are unintended side effects.  So God is non-dual, but creation isn't.

[Daniel]

On 5/17/2022 at 2:25 PM, helpfuldemon said:

  I dabbled in tarot, and read some of the Golden Dawn manuscript

 

What did you learn from researching the Golden Dawn?

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

Some aspects of creation are unintended.  When good was created, it automatically creates evil.  When truth was created falsehood was automatically created.  With mercy comes vengeance, etc.  The intention was to create good, truth, and mercy not evil, falsehood and vengeance.  Therefore God prefers good, truth, and mercy.  The others are unintended side effects.  So God is non-dual, but creation isn't.

So if God intended to create certain things but in his creating, he made evil, wouldn't you say He is imperfect?

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

What did you learn from researching the Golden Dawn?

Not much.  It was just a bunch of exercises, some with not very good explanations, and rituals which you need a temple to perform, and still, not much explanation of what you are doing.  Plus the secrecy of the grades bothered me.  I found little use for it in the end.  The only take away was the ladder of grades, that was useful for seeing your progression through wisdom.  

Edited May 19, 2022 by helpfuldemon

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

So if God intended to create certain things but in his creating, he made evil, wouldn't you say He is imperfect?

 

God is complete, that's one version of perfection.

[helpfuldemon]

When I was younger I got a lot out of the tarot.  I didn't know about the Tree of Life back then.  I think if I had, I would have had a more successful life.  Mostly I listened to music and painted what it inspired me to do.  I don't have much use for the exercises of the GD, I like practical wisdom that deals with people.  I can see how some of it led to sciences though.  I went to college for art, so I didn't have much science.  If I were to compare the GD with Thelema, Thelema would win hands down, but in retrospect I realize that Crowley's Magick is neurotic, though when you're starting out in life as a youth, you need a reason to take actions.  As an adult I realize that you actually don't, you just act.  I also realize that if you're fit and beautiful, things happen for you, and that part of being unnatractive is neurosis.  Beauty, money, and an education are the important factors in a successful life in the West.

[helpfuldemon]

20 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Some aspects of creation are unintended.  When good was created, it automatically creates evil.  When truth was created falsehood was automatically created.  With mercy comes vengeance, etc.  The intention was to create good, truth, and mercy not evil, falsehood and vengeance.  Therefore God prefers good, truth, and mercy.  The others are unintended side effects.  So God is non-dual, but creation isn't.

I don't think God created good and evil, I think it is a manifestation of our existence that we have those things.  It makes more sense to look at existence as a whole and wonder why it is this way than to say good and evil were created.  Certainly, if I were to create a world for people to live in, I would ensure that it is the very best for all, that all were safe, and that our labors would be simple.  This is why I don't think God created our world, because mind is capable of imagining a much better place for life to thrive.  if there is a creator God then it is animal and wild in nature, and mind is something either from a different source or it is the evolution of the animal, and we are better than the animal God.

[dawn90]

Give it time a bit; it's ajusting to your heart.