How do we know?

[helpfuldemon]

Love is an illusion that only we feel, but it creates kindness, and passion, and loyalty.

[Daniel]

Love bound with respect is one the most powerful motivating forces in creation.

[helpfuldemon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-_Q8znGMRg

[helpfuldemon]

I believe that we are animals, and that we want sensual things.  I believe we do not immediately know how to act, or right from wrong.  I believe it is in our natures to do wrong if it suits our animal impulses.  I also believe that God gave us the mind to overcome these things.  I believe that God knows better than us, and I believe that God wants us to succeed, even after all I have been through.  I think the occult is a step back from the higher minded thought of other traditions, for they honor the animal and the sensual.

[Daniel]

12 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

I think the occult is a step back from the higher minded thought of other traditions, for they honor the animal and the sensual.

 

that's the left hand path

[Nungali]

36 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

that's the left hand path

 

Nah ... its just another misplaced definition of the occult . The occult is very general concept    and many paths considered occult do not honour the animal and the sensual at all .

 

A good system acknowledges we are an animal and that  the sensual has influence on us  but does not forget the spiritual aspect ... and likewise , does not consider us wholly spiritual but recognises our animal / sensual nature  ..... and therefore  SHOULD come up with a way of dealing with this .

 

Historically, that way was via initiation  ;  essentially , if we strip off all the temporal  and locational  cultural clutter - across all societies and times , initiation is essentially a gradual process of leading the human animal , into a developed member of a tribe society or culture .

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

I believe it is in our natures to do wrong if it suits our animal impulses.

 

Fortunately the standard human is also equipped with higher chakras

[dawn90]

Battle for the heart.

[Aeordimm]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:51 AM, helpfuldemon said:

I could always chalk up my experience as me contacting the Devil.  After all, I did say "You're not the God of love".  So it could be the Devil, or it could be that I insulted God, and He is punishing me for it.

 

When I was on a certain practice, by the third week Baphomet came along and interrupted lol

[silent thunder]

It's something of a marvel to me when people think that the words that they utter aloud, or think, could ever carry enough merit and presence to even be noticed by, let alone being capable to offending a being, or beings that abide magnitudes of order beyond them in dimensionality and awareness, (if they exist at all).

 

To play like we possess sufficient inherent presence to offend such beings is a sign of our hubris and egomania... sure does seem to demonstrate that we, as a species, are not suffering from lack of self esteem .  People, if they register on the scale of notice at all among such beings, are likely little more than what a human might do if they noticed a colony of ants happening to walk in a patter that spelled out an 'offensive phrase' while in their column of walking. 

 

"oh that's cute, they're spelling, how 'clever' of them" 

*steps over and walks away*

 

[Lairg]

41 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

could ever carry enough merit and presence to even be noticed by, let alone being capable to offending a being, or beings that abide magnitudes of order beyond them in dimensionality and awareness

 

It is an interesting question that occurs in various traditions.  For example here is Shakespeare/Hamlet:

 

"What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
a god!"

 

And in the Kabbalah we see that the Tree of Life fits on the human, thereby enabling the pure human to resonate with cosmic energies - as outlined by Shakespeare

 

But still the question remains:  why should a human system be designed that way?

 

Does the design of the human system fit it for particular cosmic functions?   If so, there might at least be some disappointment in our cosmic co-workers

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Lairg

[helpfuldemon]

7 hours ago, silent thunder said:

It's something of a marvel to me when people think that the words that they utter aloud, or think, could ever carry enough merit and presence to even be noticed by, let alone being capable to offending a being, or beings that abide magnitudes of order beyond them in dimensionality and awareness, (if they exist at all).

 

To play like we possess sufficient inherent presence to offend such beings is a sign of our hubris and egomania... sure does seem to demonstrate that we, as a species, are not suffering from lack of self esteem .  People, if they register on the scale of notice at all among such beings, are likely little more than what a human might do if they noticed a colony of ants happening to walk in a patter that spelled out an 'offensive phrase' while in their column of walking. 

 

"oh that's cute, they're spelling, how 'clever' of them" 

*steps over and walks away*

 

We are of like minds, you and I.  I ask myself these same questions nearly daily.  Why would a God notice me?  How could someone so insignificant offend a God?  I used to think that this experience was somehow beneficial to me, but after my last bout of psychosis, I realized that it is nothing but torture to me, so why would a God go through all of this just to torture an insignificant person like myself?  Who knows.

[terry]

On 5/6/2022 at 1:13 AM, helpfuldemon said:

There is no virtue in suffering, for if there were, then causing suffering would be Good.

 

aloha demon,

 

    This is poor logic. Like saying there is no virtue in bravery for if there were, frightening people would be Good. No virtue in endurance, fortitude, mercy, kindness, compassion, etc.

.

 

   Suffering has gotten a bad rap since the greeks because they were homophiles (actually, anthropophiles) and regarded women as less than slaves. Regrettable necessities for the production of male heirs. Women and slaves did all the repetitive work of keeping a household and the men did the "real" work making things and talking politics and philosophy, and drinking and screwing each other,

 

   Feminine virtues were denigrated and masculine virtues extolled. The greeks of homer and socrates didn't generally make female statues and only celebrated male beauty (with appropriately small genitals, large ones being characteristic of barbarians).

 

   So greek philosophy and the resulting western christian incarnation of neoplatonism have followed the misogynist view that action is superior to inaction, activity to passivity. Feminine virtues such as tolerance, kindness, mercy, affection, nurturing, caring, loving, teaching, nourishing and so forth have been regarded as unmanly and thus inferior and worthless.

 

   Jesus said "suffer the little children...". That is, put up with them, tolerate them, allow them space to grow and learn. To suffer is to put up with, to take it and not complain, show fortitude, endurance and the immense courage of the (feminine) soul in coping with the unknown, chaos, the void.

 

 

   As for god, I like zennist r h blyth's response when they asked him if he believed in god. He said, "If you do, I don't; if you don't I do." "God" only makes sense as a concept if you believe in ego. No ego, no personification, no god. Alternatively, there is one person, only god and he is everything and being indistinguishable from anything doesn't actually exist as any sort of entity. One without a second, as it were. Like the big bang makes no sense because the universe has no relative size and can't make noise without ears or a medium to vibrate.

 

   Just accept it, bra. Don't think about it. God is unknowable. The sword of discrimination can't cut itself, teeth can't bite themselves. Mind cannot know mind. All your attempts to penetrate to the truth are all still up there on the screen, and it is the screen itself you are looking for, right before you all the time just look!

 

terry

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrr_YWBRlx4

[helpfuldemon]

God is an idea, an impulse.  A hope.  God is an ideal, and with it, we imagine the perfect.  I know there is at least one God, if not many.  I know that there are beings out there in our ethereal minds that interact with us.  I don't know if we join them.  I doubt there is a Heaven for all of us.  I wonder if it matters that there might be an afterlife given that it might not possess free will.  I am sad that I don't know more of what the gods do for us, but it really seems like this is all mankind's doing.  I feel that we are mostly left governing ourselves.  In my life God has been a giver of freedom, and a malicious persecutor of my mind and body.  I don't know why.  I can't imagine, unless out of boredom, why a God would bother.  I sit in silence now and have no thoughts most of the time.  Often I am gripped by bouts of grief relating to my condition, and the condition of the world.  I don't think I'm a Saint because I don't have any answers.  I pray that God is not Evil.  

[Nungali]

On 29/07/2022 at 10:53 AM, Lairg said:

 

It is an interesting question that occurs in various traditions.  For example here is Shakespeare/Hamlet:

 

"What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
a god!"

 

And in the Kabbalah we see that the Tree of Life fits on the human, thereby enabling the pure human to resonate with cosmic energies - as outlined by Shakespeare

 

But still the question remains:  why should a human system be designed that way?

 

Does the design of the human system fit it for particular cosmic functions?   If so, there might at least be some disappointment in our cosmic co-workers

 

 

 

The Tree of Life doesnt 'fit on a human '  .

 

A human has a trunk, 4 limbs and a head . The Tree of Life has three trunks, three triangles and a pendant and a bunch of diagonal and horizontal paths .  Nothing  fits !     Sure you can paste  a Tree of Life diagram OVER a human figure , but you can do that with a square and circle or a triangle .   And that supposed ly makes the human 'resonate with cosmic energies'  - you use a lot of cosmic new agey  (trying to sound ) 'cool' statements  that have no meaning or significance except as some 'pronunciati / announcement'  of some cosmic BS you read on the internet .   Go read some real Kabbalah for a change !

 

So now, you have set up a false 'design' analogy and ask why it might be designed that way - well it isnt  i that way , you simply made an error . We all know what it IS designed for and how it adapted ... just like all the other 4 limbed , one trunk and head animals  - that is , for life on Earth and environs ... not some cosmic BS reason that you cant even describe properly .

 

Then you ask if the human system is designed for some cosmic function .

 

Whatever that is supposed to mean .      " Cosmic function "    .... another obscure 'spiritual' term .

 

[Lairg]

51 minutes ago, Nungali said:

The Tree of Life doesnt 'fit on a human '  .

 

Countless generations have been misled

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tree+of+life+on+the+human&atb=v325-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Lairg

[Lairg]

49 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Then you ask if the human system is designed for some cosmic function .

 

Whatever that is supposed to mean .      " Cosmic function "    .... another obscure 'spiritual' term .

 

As you rightly point out:  Be careful who you ask

[Hannes]

We know when we stop thinking.

 

The problem is, if I were to try to rationally explain this it will get lost in translation.

The real Dao is the Dao that cannot be told. It can be experienced but not explained.

 

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Countless generations have been misled

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tree+of+life+on+the+human&atb=v325-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

 

 

 

Oh, it fits marvellously !  

 

I especially like the way  Hod and Netzach  are related to the ebows and Chokmah and Binah are outside the ears .   As I said , you just syphon  things off the internet.   Aside from that post Golden Dawn Internet copied over and over again diagram that is supposed to mean something , you have not shown any Kabbalistic correspondence.  Although the addition of the qlippothic dongle is amusing  ... but also senseless

 

Nor does this demonstrate any 'cosmic' purpose in Man either .

[Lairg]

50 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Nor does this demonstrate any 'cosmic' purpose in Man either .

 

You need to activate the ToL before cosmic purpose can be felt

 

The opera Die Meistersinger has a line in the Prize Song that on occasion can activate the ToL in a suitable listener

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Meistersinger_von_Nürnberg

[helpfuldemon]

There is no cosmic purpose.  All that you have been told is a lie.  We are under the rule of an immoral God, and there is no promise of Heaven.  

[Lairg]

2 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

There is no cosmic purpose.  All that you have been told is a lie.  We are under the rule of an immoral God, and there is no promise of Heaven.  

 

There are four propositions there of varying merit:

 

- Existence or not of "heaven".  My own observation of my parents after death is that they are in some sort of graded educational system.  My mother says she hardly sees my father.  She is being taught management of subtle energies.  He is practising relationship with equals.

 

- Immoral God.   That is really two propositions.  Morality requires a society - in this case of gods

"from Latin moralis "proper behavior of a person in society," literally "pertaining to manners," " 

And the term "God" is a very recent word much loved by Western religions as a claim to unique authority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_(word)

 

- All told is a lie.  Certainly it is important to choose to whom one listens.  But even lies need a core of reality, otherwise there would be no solidness.  For example, using words of known value is important to the credibility of a lie.  Still there is an increasing use of the slogan:  Everything you know is wrong!   This may have started with Lloyd Pye     https://www.lloydpye.com/

 

 

- No cosmic purpose.   This is a bit tricky to demonstrate as the Cosmos is rather large, and not a lot of Earth humans have been around much of it.  Still, locally there is the concept of synchronicity.    I experience synchronicity regularly

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

 

I sometimes ask new acquaintances:  Why are you on Earth?   Occasionally I get a cosmic answer.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Lairg

[Lairg]

A note on cosmic purpose:

 

Given that life on Earth is a random process, it is very strange that "The Hemoglobin of the red blood cell and the Chlorophyll of the plant are virtually identical in molecular structure, with the only difference being the center atom."

https://kodrat.iliensale.com/what-is-the-similarity-between-chlorophyll-and-hemoglobin/

 

I do hope that royalties are being paid

 

Thus change the Iron atom in hemoglobin for Magnesium and you too can be a plant.  

 

The different central atoms allow resonance with different aspects of the Cosmic Life Force with its modulated Intent

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Lairg

[helpfuldemon]

2 hours ago, Lairg said:

A note on cosmic purpose:

 

Given that life on Earth is a random process, it is very strange that "The Hemoglobin of the red blood cell and the Chlorophyll of the plant are virtually identical in molecular structure, with the only difference being the center atom."

https://kodrat.iliensale.com/what-is-the-similarity-between-chlorophyll-and-hemoglobin/

 

I do hope that royalties are being paid

 

Thus change the Iron atom in hemoglobin for Magnesium and you too can be a plant.  

 

The different central atoms allow resonance with different aspects of the Cosmic Life Force with its modulated Intent

 

 

 

 

This only indicates design, not purpose.  We serve no purpose.  We are here to experience, and that is it.

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

You need to activate the ToL before cosmic purpose can be felt

 

The opera Die Meistersinger has a line in the Prize Song that on occasion can activate the ToL in a suitable listener

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Meistersinger_von_Nürnberg

 

So now its been shown that the Tol DOES NOT " fit on the human "  as you claimed .... you are going to switch to this ^  ? 

 

 

 

There is no  Kabbalistic reference to use of the ToL on the human body .  As I said , that is a Golden Dawn schemata  and its use is specific to them and the specific use they designed it for .

 

Then their book and images from it got published , then it got on the internet, then   bright sparks started going .... oh look : 3 pillars ..... 3 nadis  !    Oh look... the chakras' line up '   ( no they dont ) .... lets put pics of that all over the internet .

 

Along comes the 'internet mystic '  sees the pictures ...    now the Tol Is 'inside us ' and can be 'activated ' by ... not years of study, practice and teachers but simple by hearing a single line in a song  .......   in a 'suitable' listener of course  

( I am guessing you yourself heard that and achieved the resultant  ..... 'activation' )  .