How do we know?

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

There is no cosmic purpose.  All that you have been told is a lie.  We are under the rule of an immoral God, and there is no promise of Heaven.  

 

Did you know that opinion is very gnostic ( well, some versions of gnosticism ie 'black gnosticism'  )

 

God is an evil demiurge that created this evil world .... its all a trick  and pretty easy to see through if you read what God said to do in the Bible  and, as they say , the other proof is  ; "Just look at the world  and the state its in ! "

 

Personally I am a bit the opposite , although I leave 'God' out the formula  - a 'white gnostic'  , as they say .

 

But each to their own  ....   " The black and the white are harnessed to his car ."

 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

There are four propositions there of varying merit:

 

- Existence or not of "heaven".  My own observation of my parents after death is that they are in some sort of graded educational system.  My mother says she hardly sees my father.  She is being taught management of subtle energies.  He is practising relationship with equals.

 

 

 

Its always tricky with 'our own observations' ; without comparisons or any form of consensual reality , we are left to our own devices concerning any possible objective observations .

 

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

- Immoral God.   That is really two propositions.  Morality requires a society - in this case of gods

"from Latin moralis "proper behavior of a person in society," literally "pertaining to manners," " 

And the term "God" is a very recent word much loved by Western religions as a claim to unique authority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_(word)

 

A bit pedantic on the syntax aren't we ?  or cant you see he is comparing a moral value with himself,  the society he is in and his expectations . Or did you think HD WAS talking about a moral relativity throughout the cosmos ? And if you had been actually taking in what is being written here m, you SHOULD understand by now, what HD is talking about and what HE means by 'God'  ?

 

I fail to see how the above could help anyone with depressive suffering ? 

 

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

- All told is a lie.  Certainly it is important to choose to whom one listens.  But even lies need a core of reality, otherwise there would be no solidness.  For example, using words of known value is important to the credibility of a lie.  Still there is an increasing use of the slogan:  Everything you know is wrong!   This may have started with Lloyd Pye     https://www.lloydpye.com/

 

" lies need a core of reality, otherwise there would be no solidness "     ? 

 

Oh yeah ... nothing like a hollow lie with no core of truthful solidness   

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

- No cosmic purpose.   This is a bit tricky to demonstrate as the Cosmos is rather large, and not a lot of Earth humans have been around much of it.  Still, locally there is the concept of synchronicity.    I experience synchronicity regularly

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

 

 

I am sure you  do .... some people see them everywhere .

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 sometimes ask new acquaintances:  Why are you on Earth?   Occasionally I get a cosmic answer.

 

 

 

Well, thats strange ..... you get a COSMIC answer ! ?

 

I guess the people you ask dont realise  that  " the Cosmos is rather large, and not a lot of Earth humans have been around much of it."

[helpfuldemon]

Yes, I mean "the" God.  Even if a lesser being did this to me, it was still allowed by "the God".  You don't have to believe me when I say a God did this to me, I know the truth.  Everyone wants a God of love, and we need that God to keep peace among the people who believe.  No mystic wants to think that a God is Evil.  I'm not saying God is Evil, but I don't think God has any rules about harming people, or doing things that we declare Evil.  I'm sure God does a lot of good, too.  I think God does what God wants to do, for Gods own reasons (probably boredom).  

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

Everyone wants a God of love

 

I am not sure how true that is.

 

It is said that in an earlier version of this solar system our god was a god of intelligence and energy

 

After the pralaya, in this current solar system our god is a god of love (learning right relationship)

 

After the next pralaya, in the next manifestation of this solar system our god will be a god of will/intent

 

Some sense of that can be seen in the New Testament with the proposition that "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

 

The human souls formed in the first version of this solar system were trained in energy and intelligence.  Having been brought over to this second manifestation of the solar system, not all of those souls want to learn right relationship.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralaya

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Lairg

[helpfuldemon]

I don't know what you been smokin, but it can't be legal.

[helpfuldemon]

10 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I am not sure how true that is.

 

It is said that in an earlier version of this solar system our god was a god of intelligence and energy

 

After the pralaya, in this current solar system our god is a god of love (learning right relationship)

 

After the next pralaya, in the next manifestation of this solar system our god will be a god of will/intent

 

Some sense of that can be seen in the New Testament with the proposition that "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

 

The human souls formed in the first version of this solar system were trained in energy and intelligence.  Having been brought over to this second manifestation of the solar system, not all of those souls want to learn right relationship.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralaya

 

 

Most of what you espouse is imaginative and creative explanations, none of it can be proven by you, or anyone.  Your theory doesn't seem to take into account the billion Chinese and the millions of other religious people who aren't going anywhere.  For all the talk of a new Age, these religions look like they are here to stay.  Even in this era of discernment and individuality, people can't seem to see the flaws in these religions.  If you look closely at Judaism, you will find that God does do Evil things, that they say God will be that which He will be, and that He is unknowable.  Christians came along and gave us the God of Love, probably because the uncertainty of knowing God and Gods Will was too unbearable.  We want a God that is logical, reasonable, and kind, but that isn't the God we have.  When I look out at Creation, I see that it is a dangerous place, and that it isn't that kind to us.  If I were to create a place for life, while this place is colorful and has a lot of variety, it doesn't seem like the most ideal for us.  That means either the God of Creation doesn't care about our problems, or there isn't one.  That doesn't mean there isn't a God, it just means that there is no creator God, or the creator God we have is indifferent.  Aside from my points on Creation, my personal experience has been that the God we have is cruel and likes to torture people, and is indifferent to their cries of pain and pleas for mercy.  This God also isn't an educator or revealer.  In fact, it would be better that there was no God at all, from my perspective, and that mankind would learn to govern themselves with reason and fair laws for all people, rather than rely on dogma to tell them what is right.

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

none of it can be proven by you, or anyone. 

 

Perhaps you mean mathematical proof or perhaps material proof of non-material events - in which case you may be correct

 

On the other hand, personal observation can be valuable for humans - hence the difficulty in proving the existence of the Sun to one blind from birth.

 

Has a human observed a Pralaya?  

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Lairg

[helpfuldemon]

I've always been fond of the story that God created everything, but took little interest in it, and Lucifer, upon watching us and realizing we are living, thinking, feeling beings, went to God and demanded that He do something for us.  I've witnessed the technology that the gods have; they know every membrane of our bodies and can manipulate them to their will.  If they didn't create us, they have examined us to know every in and out of our structure.  I've often thought that I am lying on a slab somewhere, and that this reality is a hologram.  But if that were the case, then I might be the only living being, and so I discount that.  I've seen enough to know that there is nothing out of reach of the gods, and so I wonder; why do this to me, and why not do more for us?  Certainly, curing disease is well within their power.  

 

When I think about their technology, and look at our history; how we have struggled for millennium to achieve the science we have, I get angry that we had to struggle for so long to come to where we are.  I just wonder how much they care.

[thelerner]

I'm in the 'Don't blame God for the acts of man' camp. 

I tend to see the bible as a poor source for understanding the deity.  Though some have used it as springboard to delve into deeper and more mystical understandings others are stuck in a quagmire of bronze age myths and legends.

[helpfuldemon]

Yes, I am in that camp now too, though I still wonder what acts of God happen.  

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, thelerner said:

I'm in the 'Don't blame God for the acts of man' camp. 

....

 

I've said it more than once - but I will say it again  :

 

 

I talked to God last night in my prayers . I said ,

 

"Dear God , the world is full of suffering and sadness , is there nothing that can be done ? "

 

He answered and said  " It is ? "

 

 I  said , " Well yes, of course it is ; people are stealing killing and fighting with each other , some are fat and rich and others are poor and starved ,  the weak are oppressed,  the elderly and children are being abused  . "

 

And God asked , " And people dont like that stuff ? "

 

 I responded ,  "Of course not ! "

 

God ;   " Well , if they dont like it , tell them to stop doing it to each other . "

 

 

[thelerner]

2 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Yes, I am in that camp now too, though I still wonder what acts of God happen.  

What I'm working on is God as everything.  Real big, all the nouns and beyond time and space.  That we can (maybe) get a grasp of this looking at things closely, ala William Blake's To see a World in a Grain of Sand. And a Heaven in a Wild Flower. Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand.

 

A mystical interpretation of the most common Jewish prayer is The breath/presence of God is everywhere, His mystery suffuses everything, Wow.. (bread, grape, wine, rainbow, bathroom break..)  A prayer said dozens of times a day, reminding us to look closer for the sacred. 

 

I'm not too successful.  Sadly I'm a material man living in a decadent world. 

[Aeordimm]

On 8/6/2022 at 3:14 AM, helpfuldemon said:

Yes, I mean "the" God.  Even if a lesser being did this to me, it was still allowed by "the God".  You don't have to believe me when I say a God did this to me, I know the truth.  Everyone wants a God of love, and we need that God to keep peace among the people who believe.  No mystic wants to think that a God is Evil.  I'm not saying God is Evil, but I don't think God has any rules about harming people, or doing things that we declare Evil.  I'm sure God does a lot of good, too.  I think God does what God wants to do, for Gods own reasons (probably boredom).  

 

This is an interesting observation, provided that God exists. Both rules and ideas about God or anything else exists in the mind of humans as mental objects. When a mystic realizes this, he's freed from a lot of mind shackles.

 

For example, the reason the average person tries to act the part, and do socially acceptable behavior, like holding doors for others is the existence of these rules as mental constructs in his mind. And it's hard to completely avoid these constructs since they are pretty strong (created by large populations).