Differences between dualism and non-dualism

[doc benway]

2 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

I did, but what does that have to do with your question? 

 

I guess it missed the mark...

[ralis]

Just now, steve said:

 

I guess it missed the mark...

 

Yes it did as well as your laughing emoji's response!

[ralis]

15 minutes ago, dwai said:

I realize this line of discourse is distressful for many here.
 

FWIW, For all the friends who have been hurt by nondual assertions,  please don’t take what some of us saying as a criticism or rejection of your personal practices.
 

Please continue to do what works for you. But at least give what is being pointed to a serious thinking through. If @Bindi wants to develop her central channel, it will become easier with nondual recognition. All practices will become more natural, and progress towards becoming effortless. If someone wants to develop a light body, it’ll help them too. So it is for all other spiritual practices. 
 

No one is diminishing the suffering caused by/faced by humanity. And I am certain all good people do the best they can to help (whether they are dualists or nondualists).

 

I'm not hurt, but just pointing out my observations. Further, I don't talk about what my realizations are, given that it may lead to a misunderstanding. I don't even discuss what my practices are and I have good reason for that.

 

In my town there are Amachi, Buddhist, Hindu, New Age and Advaita groups, among others. Most get lost in a trance with screwed up minds and never come down to earth. 

 

Life is about relationships and we all exist in relationship whether one accepts that or not.

Edited May 19, 2022 by ralis

[Bindi]

16 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

 

Perhaps the biggest paradox of awakening is that afterwards everything is perfect and yet, when things go wrong, you care more.

You’re speaking as one of the nondually awakened now? Aye Carrumba.

[silent thunder]

William Blake rather insistently arising in awareness...

 

"As we are, so we see."

 

"We are not meant to resolve all contradictions but to live with them and rise above them."

 

"The person who does not believe in miracles surely makes it certain that he or she will never take part in one."

 

"Does a firm persuasion that a thing is so, make it so?"

 

[liminal_luke]

14 minutes ago, Bindi said:

You’re speaking as one of the nondually awakened now? Aye Carrumba.

 

Mea Culpa.  No, I am not awakened.  I just enjoy talking "as if." 

 

I've never been a smoker and I'm mostly happy about that.  But sometimes, when I see a group of smokers huddled outside talking, I wonder if I'm missing out. They probably feel such a warm sense of belonging, united together in their need for this substance most of their friends and coworkers despise.  To me, this thread is like a nondualist smoking circle.  I don't smoke but I like to pretend otherwise, to be part of the gang.  So, ya know, please don't kick me out?

Edited May 19, 2022 by liminal_luke

[ralis]

3 minutes ago, Bindi said:

You’re speaking as one of the nondually awakened now? Aye Carrumba.

 

Which meaning of Carrumba. There are various.

[Bindi]

Just now, ralis said:

 

Which meaning of Carrumba. There are various.

Bart Simpson’s meaning.

[ralis]

2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

William Blake rather insistently arising in awareness...

 

"As we are, so we see."

 

"We are not meant to resolve all contradictions but to live with them and rise above them."

 

"The person who does not believe in miracles surely makes it certain that he or she will never take part in one."

 

"Does a firm persuasion that a thing is so, make it so?"

 

 

I don't have a problem with the intricacies of life, but hypocrisy I loathe.

[ralis]

Just now, Bindi said:

Bart Simpson’s meaning.

 

 

Ok! 

[silent thunder]

1 minute ago, ralis said:

 

I don't have a problem with the intricacies of life, but hypocrisy I loathe.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

[silent thunder]

I am in you and you in me, mutual in divine love.

Blake again, this time reflecting Indra's Net

 

We all mirror source, as we each express/derive entirely from it. 

The 10,000 are tzjujan, arising 'of a thing'

 

Myopia may hinder this perception, but only temporarily.

 

Sun Moon and Truth may not long remain hidden.

 

 

[Bindi]

44 minutes ago, dwai said:

I realize this line of discourse is distressful for many here.
 

FWIW, For all the friends who have been hurt by nondual assertions,  please don’t take what some of us saying as a criticism or rejection of your personal practices.
 

Please continue to do what works for you. But at least give what is being pointed to a serious thinking through. If @Bindi wants to develop her central channel, it will become easier with nondual recognition.
 

 

I don’t see why that would be. Energies exist, they flow stronger as obstructions are removed, and they make their way eventually to the central channel, No nondual recognition required. Nondual understanding will arise afterwards, but the understanding of it before entering the central channel would be a mere shadow, all to often mistaken to be the “cosmic Truth”, and no tools to see the error. 
 

Read Sri Aurobindo’s disclaimer:

 

At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether.

 

Wake up nondualists!

 

Quote

All practices will become more natural, and progress towards becoming effortless. If someone wants to develop a light body, it’ll help them too.
 

 

And what good is a light body? 

 

Quote

So it is for all other spiritual practices. 
 

No one is diminishing the suffering caused by/faced by humanity. And I am certain all good people do the best they can to help (whether they are dualists or nondualists).

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Bindi

[silent thunder]

"One day you will ask me which is more important? My life or yours?

I will say mine and you will walk away not knowing that you are my life."

~Khalil Gibran

 

"I greet you from the other side of sorrow and despair,

with a love so vast and shattered it will reach you everywhere."

~Leonard Cohen

[dwai]

3 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

I don’t see why that would be. Energies exist, they flow stronger as obstructions are removed, and they make their way eventually to the central channel, No nondual recognition required. Nondual understanding will arise afterwards, but the understanding of it before entering the central channel would be a mere shadow, all to often mistaken to be the “cosmic Truth”, and no tools to see the error.
 

If that works for you, more power to you. Let us exchange notes after you succeed in your practice. 

3 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Read Sri Aurobindo’s disclaimer:

 

At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether.

 

 

And what good is a light body? 

 

 

No use for me. For others there might be. For those bums who are interested,  let us chat after their light body is perfected. 

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

…These things, when they pour down or come in, present themselves with a great force, a vivid sense of inspiration or illumination, much sensation of light and joy, an impression of widening and power. The sadhak feels himself freed from the normal limits, projected into a wonderful new world of experience, filled and enlarged and exalted;what comes associates itself, besides, with his aspirations, ambitions, notions of spiritual fulfillment and yogic siddhi; it is represented even as itself that realisation and fulfillment. Very easily he is carried away by the splendour and the rush, and thinks that he has realised more than he has truly done, something final or at least something sovereignly true. At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether.

                ~ Sri Aurobindo (1932)

 

 

Definitely! This is what happens when there is an enlightened "person". This is what the "ten years", or "returning to the marketplace" are for, this learning to see that duality doesn't go anywhere, but that non-duality is always underneath.

[doc benway]

52 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Mea Culpa.  No, I am not awakened.  I just enjoy talking "as if." 

Luke on DaoBums…

 

 

 

 

Luke at home, resting…

 

 

 

 

[ralis]

46 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

I don’t see why that would be. Energies exist, they flow stronger as obstructions are removed, and they make their way eventually to the central channel, No nondual recognition required. Nondual understanding will arise afterwards, but the understanding of it before entering the central channel would be a mere shadow, all to often mistaken to be the “cosmic Truth”, and no tools to see the error. 
 

Read Sri Aurobindo’s disclaimer:

 

At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether.

 

Wake up nondualists!

 

 

And what good is a light body? 

 

 

 

It is rare to come across one that has read Aurobindo. Mirra Alfassa also?

[ralis]

59 minutes ago, dwai said:

If that works for you, more power to you. Let us exchange notes after you succeed in your practice. 

No use for me. For others there might be. For those bums who are interested,  let us chat after their light body is perfected. 

 

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

 

I don’t see why that would be. Energies exist, they flow stronger as obstructions are removed, and they make their way eventually to the central channel, No nondual recognition required. Nondual understanding will arise afterwards, but the understanding of it before entering the central channel would be a mere shadow, all to often mistaken to be the “cosmic Truth”, and no tools to see the error. 
 

Read Sri Aurobindo’s disclaimer:

 

At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether.

 

Wake up nondualists!

 

 

And what good is a light body? 

 

 

 

 

Are you referring to Sri Aurobindo's light body? He radiated the golden body of light. I viewed it back in the early nineties and yes he passed on in 1950, but suffice it to say, I saw it somewhere in time.

[dwai]

7 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

 

 

Are you referring to Sri Aurobindo's light body? He radiated the golden body of light. I viewed it back in the early nineties and yes he passed on in 1950, but suffice it to say, I saw it somewhere in time.

I’m not referring to Sri Aurobindo’s light body. I was referring to all our friends here who want to develop a light body.

[ralis]

9 hours ago, dwai said:

I’m not referring to Sri Aurobindo’s light body. I was referring to all our friends here who want to develop a light body.

 

It was attributed as part of her quote. I was asking bindi, not you,  since it was she who said it. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by ralis

[stirling]

2 hours ago, Bindi said:

Wake up nondualists!

 

...just to clarify, do you mean would-be acolytes, or those with realization? Either way, this is the funniest thing in this thread!

 

 

[Mark Foote]

3 hours ago, ralis said:

 

It is rare to come across one that has read Aurobindo. Mirra Alfassa also?

 

I'm not one who has read either of them.  Checking Wikipedia for "Mirra Alfassa", whom I'd never heard of, some interesting things:

 

On 24 November 1926, later declared as Siddhi Day (Victory Day) and still celebrated by Sri Aurobindo Ashram, Mother and Sri Aurobindo declared that overmind consciousness had manifested directly in physical consciousness, allowing the possibility for human consciousness to be directly aware and be in the overmind consciousness.

Sri Aurobindo and Mother's work and principles of yoga was named by them: integral yoga, an all-embracing yoga. This yoga was in variance with older ways of yoga because the follower would not give up the outer life to live in a monastery, but would be present in regular life and practise spirituality in all parts of life.

 

Similar to Zen in the USA, that last.  I believe we were the first to have co-ed Zen centers and monasteries.  SF Zen Center has worked for years with the difficulty of supporting couples and families in their practice.

 

A twentieth-century phenomena, co-ed monastic environments?

Edited May 19, 2022 by Mark Foote

[old3bob]

 

[Bindi]

11 hours ago, ralis said:

 

It is rare to come across one that has read Aurobindo. Mirra Alfassa also?

I read some of Aurobindo’s ideas about spiritual evolution which I’ve enjoyed, I’ve never come across Mirra Alfassa though.