Differences between dualism and non-dualism

[Cobie]

 

 

1 hour ago, dwai said:

I didn't mean that everyone thinks like that … Would you disagree?

 

Yes.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Cobie

[ralis]

I have mentioned on this forum regarding my history with PTSD that went on for decades most every night, same time most every night. Guess what triggered the events at the very beginning? Vipassana meditation! That wasn’t the cause, but the trigger that set it off. 

[stirling]

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Edited June 6, 2022 by stirling
multiple post

[stirling]

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Edited June 6, 2022 by stirling
multiple post

[stirling]

17 minutes ago, natural said:

Preventing assault or injury to me would be a proper start.

 

What I mean here is: It isn't possible to experience another appearance in consciousness/being's agency, therefore attributing agency to anyone/thing is an assumption. Many things that commonly happen are not attributed to the agency of the agents involved. A landslide or an ocean wave might be possible examples.

 

It is possible to witness that YOUR agency is an illusion. This opens the door for a variety of other related insights.

[Apech]

28 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

To anyone who sees that all appearances lack intrinsic awareness of their own.

 

 

WHO does the volition/will/agency belong to? What exists that has intrinsic existence?

Anyone making such an observation is exercising agency.

 

Does it have to belong to anyone?

 

The continuum of Buddha nature.

[natural]

6 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

What I mean here is: It isn't possible to experience another appearance in consciousness/being's agency, therefore attributing agency to anyone/thing is an assumption. Many things that commonly happen are not attributed to the agency of the agents involved. A landslide or an ocean wave might be possible examples.

 

It is possible to witness that YOUR agency is an illusion. This opens the door for a variety of other related insights.

 

I am sorry but getting snake bit 5 times in less 3 seconds was no illusion by any means. 

A family dog grew blind deaf and my Mom asked me to check on him, I got down with him my best buddy for almost 20 years, and he turned on me faster than you could blink an eye.

 

Bit the living hell out of me, but we had to take care of him before I got stitched up and a tetanus shot , go figure, or not.

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, natural said:

1. War is hell! …

I live where ‘A Bridge too Far’ happened.  Some of my friends in their late eighties still sometimes talk to me about it.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Cobie

[natural]

3 minutes ago, Cobie said:

I live where ‘A Bridge too Far’ happened.  Some of my friends in their late eighties still sometimes talk about it.

 

Great respect to both them and you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stirling]

38 minutes ago, Apech said:

Anyone making such an observation is exercising agency.

 

Does it have to belong to anyone?

 

The continuum of Buddha nature.

 

What if it is understood that there is no "self" observing?

 

-

 

If it is "agency", by definition it belongs to someone. 

 

-

 

Buddha nature is empty of intrinsic existence and therefore empty of agents and agency. There is only "enlightened activity", as Shunryu Suzuki would say.

Edited June 6, 2022 by stirling

[Cobie]

19 minutes ago, natural said:

Great respect to both them and you!

Thank you. Not to me though (I wasn’t there), to them yes. 
 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Cobie

[Bindi]

33 minutes ago, natural said:

 

I am sorry but getting snake bit 5 times in less 3 seconds was no illusion by any means. 

A family dog grew blind deaf and my Mom asked me to check on him, I got down with him my best buddy for almost 20 years, and he turned on me faster than you could blink an eye.

 

Bit the living hell out of me, but we had to take care of him before I got stitched up and a tetanus shot , go figure, or not.

I was once out with my kids when they were a toddler and a baby strapped to me, walking along a bush track, when a tiger snake reared up half a metre in front of where my toddler was walking towards, and a sound came out of me, it reminded me of a monkey howling ‘owowowowow’ and my toddler stopped and came towards me, and the snake ‘stood down’ and slithered off. My fright was so intense I bypassed words, but apparently to very good effect  

[stirling]

36 minutes ago, natural said:

I am sorry but getting snake bit 5 times in less 3 seconds was no illusion by any means. 

A family dog grew blind deaf and my Mom asked me to check on him, I got down with him my best buddy for almost 20 years, and he turned on me faster than you could blink an eye.

 

Bit the living hell out of me, but we had to take care of him before I got stitched up and a tetanus shot , go figure, or not.

 

I am speaking specifically about the illusion of feeling you are in control of your own destiny. 

 

I'm sorry to hear that those things happened to you. 

 

I have been in car accidents, witnessed my children having mental breakdowns in hospital, endured excruciating pain, and have watched my beloved dog of 15 years die. In all cases, it was crystal clear that the all phenomena were empty of intrinsic existence with no effort to see. It is a permanent perceptual shift and there are plenty of people that see this way every day - a few on this very board.

 

Non-dual realization is quite real, and does reveal the illusion of the subject/object reality. 

[ralis]

13 minutes ago, Bindi said:

I was once out with my kids when they were a toddler and a baby strapped to me, walking along a bush track, when a tiger snake reared up half a metre in front of where my toddler was walking towards, and a sound came out of me, it reminded me of a monkey howling ‘owowowowow’ and my toddler stopped and came towards me, and the snake ‘stood down’ and slithered off. My fright was so intense I bypassed words, but apparently to very good effect  

 

I was waiting for some snake encounters from you since your country has the most poisonous snakes in the known universe. Survival protective instinct was automatic.

Edited June 6, 2022 by ralis

[ralis]

15 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

I am speaking specifically about the illusion of feeling you are in control of your own destiny. 

 

I'm sorry to hear that those things happened to you. 

 

I have been in car accidents, witnessed my children having mental breakdowns in hospital, endured excruciating pain, and have watched my beloved dog of 15 years die. In all cases, it was crystal clear that the all phenomena were empty of intrinsic existence with no effort to see. It is a permanent perceptual shift and there are plenty of people that see this way every day - a few on this very board.

 

Non-dual realization is quite real, and does reveal the illusion of the subject/object reality. 

 

It always amazes me that "I" and "is" are used prolifically in non-dual discussions. The verb 'is', or 'to be' denote action by an individual that directly contradicts what you are attempting to negate.

[Apech]

31 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

What if it is understood that there is no "self" observing?

 

-

 

If it is "agency", by definition it belongs to someone. 

 

-

 

Buddha nature is empty of intrinsic existence and therefore empty of agents and agency. There is only "enlightened activity", as Shunryu Suzuki would say.

it is empty of other 

[silent thunder]

25 minutes ago, Bindi said:

I was once out with my kids when they were a toddler and a baby strapped to me, walking along a bush track, when a tiger snake reared up half a metre in front of where my toddler was walking towards, and a sound came out of me, it reminded me of a monkey howling ‘owowowowow’ and my toddler stopped and came towards me, and the snake ‘stood down’ and slithered off. My fright was so intense I bypassed words, but apparently to very good effect  

 

Some folks, having not experienced their own innate power will mistake its rising to a situation as fear, since prior to experiecing power, fear is the only thing they've experienced that comes close to the level of intensity that power has.

 

Being unfamiliar with it, they mis-take it for fear.  When in reality it is not fear manifesting at all, but their innate living power rising to a situation.

 

I am not implying that this is the case with you.  Only using it to demonstrate my experience of the power of true presence versus the feeling of fear arising.

[stirling]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

it is empty of other 

 

...and "self" of course.

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, Mark Foote said:

Terror in the anticipation, sure.  Not so sure terror is the feeling at the moment when life is actually on the line.

If you’re already engaged in actively doing your best to avoid death then fear would get in the way, fear just motivates activity, perhaps when there is no action possible to avert the danger the fear just starts echoing beyond the actual moment. Perhaps it’s whatever is the best state for survival, sometimes cold hard mental processing unhampered by emotion, sometimes fear followed by action. 
 

I do wonder if fear is a conditioned response actually, after being bitten by a dog I developed a fear of dogs, it was a learnt behaviour. 

[stirling]

4 minutes ago, ralis said:

It always amazes me that "I" and "is" are used prolifically in non-dual discussions. The verb 'is', or 'to be' denote action by an individual that directly contradicts what you are attempting to negate.

 

Language is an entirely clumsy way of trying to get the topic across, but the alternative options are fairly limited.

[ralis]

13 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

Language is an entirely clumsy way of trying to get the topic across, but the alternative options are fairly limited.

Why bother?

[ralis]

I had an encounter with a 6’ Western Diamondback rattlesnake a few years ago in the mountains above Los Alamos NM. It’s rattle stopped me in my tracks at 12’ away. I wasn’t afraid, but my mind was very clear with a bit of adrenaline.  Western Diamondbacks don’t back off!  

[Bindi]

46 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

I am speaking specifically about the illusion of feeling you are in control of your own destiny. 

 

I'm sorry to hear that those things happened to you. 

 

I have been in car accidents, witnessed my children having mental breakdowns in hospital, endured excruciating pain, and have watched my beloved dog of 15 years die. In all cases, it was crystal clear that the all phenomena were empty of intrinsic existence with no effort to see. It is a permanent perceptual shift and there are plenty of people that see this way every day - a few on this very board.

 

Non-dual realization is quite real, and does reveal the illusion of the subject/object reality. 

When you saw your children having mental breakdowns, did you see this as somehow just illusory? Were you unmoved by the situation? 

[mrpasserby]

14 minutes ago, ralis said:

Why bother?

Because someone could get an epiphany.

Edited June 7, 2022 by mrpasserby
clarity

[ralis]

8 minutes ago, Bindi said:

When you saw your children having mental breakdowns, did you see this as somehow just illusory? Were you unmoved by the situation? 

That is the million dollar question! Right to the heart of the matter! 
 

I have been around many heartless selfish Buddhists as well as Advaita devotees who could care less about others. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by ralis