old3bob Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) "There was a Zen monastery where many disciples gathered to learn from the master. Of all the disciples, the newest disciple was the most active, taking up lots of work. If his master wanted something, he would reach his side before anyone else. He instantly completed any tasks given to him by his master. He was the last to sleep and the first to wake up and begin the daily chores. The master took note of this and asked him one day, "Where were you before you came here?" The disciple replied, "I was learning from Shaling Kyu." "Oh, Shaling Kyu! I have heard about him. Once when he was walking on a bridge, he tripped and fell into the water. Right?" asked the master. "Yes, Master." "Do you know that he became realized at that very moment?" "I didn’t know about that. But he has written a poem about his realization." "Do you remember that poem?" "Yes master, I remember." "Then tell me." "I have found a pearl. For long time dust and dirt had covered its brightness. Now the dust has flown away. The dirt is gone. Brightness has been born. The mountains and the rivers have been lit with its light." The moment he finished reciting this poem, the master let out a loud laugh. The disciple was confused, "What is so funny about this poem? Why did the Master laugh?" But no matter how much he thought about it, he could not find an answer. His sleep was ruined that night. The moment he got up the next morning, he came looking for his master. "Oh, Master! Why did you laugh when I told you that poem yesterday?" The master said, "You are worse than a clown." "What?" "Yes, clowns make others laugh, but you get terrified if someone laughs." Saying this, he started laughing loudly again. This laughter of the master enlightened his disciple. " Edited July 1, 2022 by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, old3bob said: This laughter of the master enlightened his disciple. " Yes, but could he catch his underwear on the first try? 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, manitou said: Yes, but could he catch his underwear on the first try? Many try few men succeed ! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted July 1, 2022 35 minutes ago, manitou said: Yes, but could he catch his underwear on the first try? I imagine the master could, but the student would still have to practice at it...;-) 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted July 1, 2022 Ain't it hard to stumble and land in some muddy lagoon Ain't it hard to stumble and land in some muddy lagoon 'Specially when it's 9 below zero, and a non-dual kind'a afternoon (with apologies to Dylan, "Outlaw Blues") 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, natural said: Many try few men succeed ! and women do not need to feel exempt from this technique ;-) (more so since it is said they have better lower body strength than men...) Edited July 1, 2022 by old3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Mark Foote said: Ain't it hard to stumble and land in some muddy lagoon Ain't it hard to stumble and land in some muddy lagoon 'Specially when it's 9 below zero, and a non-dual kind'a afternoon (with apologies to Dylan, "Outlaw Blues") does that include quickly checking to see if anybody saw us stumble...as we all tend to do and also laugh at ourselves if seen, and even if the fall hurt... Edited July 1, 2022 by old3bob 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted July 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, old3bob said: does that include quickly checking to see if anybody saw us stumble...as we all tend to do and also laugh at ourselves if seen, and even if the fall hurt... I for one prefer first and foremost prefer not to stumble, or otherwise be embarrassed in public. I do frequently laugh at myself (and others as well) hopefully in private. As stumbling or acting somewhat as a buffoon ain't really an option for me. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) On 6/29/2022 at 2:27 PM, Bindi said: I like what you (Apech) are saying about sexual love, emotive love and aesthetic love being associated with the central channel where it intersects with the dantians, though I’m not quite sure what you mean by ‘aesthetic’ love exactly. I think there is some sort of subtle ‘seed’ that has to travel from the LDT up to the MDT and then the UDT that in a sense has to be fully realised and transformed in each of these centres, and this ever broadening of ‘love’ is a fundamental part of the journey. On channels, from Steve Wiltse's frogzen.com blog (6/23): I was skeptical of the practice of just breathing from only one side to activate specific subtle nerve channels (nadi) said to exist on either side of the spine, in order to control “prana” or psycho/sexual energy — the right nostril side (pingala) being the extroverted (Active), solar nadi and the left nostril side (ida) the introverted, lunar nadi. Then I came across a 2019 review of scientific evidence on the effects of yogic breath control (pranayama) that appears to confirm yogic teachings regarding alternate breathing, as well as numerous benefits of pranayama in general. According to research, Nadi Suddhi breathing just through the left nostril stimulates the parasympathetic system and a general relaxation response, along with a reduction in blood pressure and heart rate, whereas right nostril breathing does the opposite, activating the sympathetic nervous system’s “flight or fight response,” along with an increase in both blood pressure and heart rate. From the review "results": Ancient Indian texts on Yoga describe, “As the breath moves, so does the mind, and mind ceases to move as the breath is stopped.” (S. Muktibodhananda; Hatha yoga Pradipika: light on hatha yoga (2nd ed.), Yoga Publication Trust, Bihar (2002)) I don't think "mind ceases to move" is a reference to thought ceasing to move. There are people out there who see a stoppage of the movement of breath at some point in the exhale as natural, but I think they are not apprehending that the base of consciousness can move. Looks like the results for right and left uninostril breathing involved a study group of only eight individuals. Small study group, but interesting. Edited July 1, 2022 by Mark Foote 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lairg Posted July 1, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mark Foote said: I came across a 2019 review of scientific evidence on the effects of yogic breath control (pranayama) that appears to confirm yogic teachings regarding alternate breathing, as well as numerous benefits of pranayama in general. Many years ago I practised this secretly in both channels timed by heart beats. I was quite good at it - until my body suddenly refused to do it A couple of weeks later an old lady came to me and said I had damaged my nervous system. So that was the end of pranayama for me 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Lairg said: … I had damaged my nervous system. So that was the end of pranayama for me Yes, exactly. The body knows how to breathe; you don’t. Don’t mess with nature. Edited July 2, 2022 by Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted July 2, 2022 7 hours ago, Lairg said: Many years ago I practised this secretly in both channels timed by heart beats. I was quite good at it - until my body suddenly refused to do it A couple of weeks later an old lady came to me and said I had damaged my nervous system. So that was the end of pranayama for me I think the best is to be mindful of the natural breath, and the body, as that's appropriate. I'm amazed that some people report good results from breathing unnaturally (so to speak)--my intuition has always been that to do so would be dangerous, but I don't know the facts (or if any research has been done, really). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) Esoteric traditions and the practices therein rarely conform to mundane 'facts'. Part of the fun is finding out, thru experiential insights garnered from practice, is that what's been accepted as 'natural' or 'factual' was actually nothing more than an attitude and mindset determined by deeply ingrained, constrictive habits bound up in body, speech and mind - these in turn feed the delusion of "I, me and mine", a regressing cyclical phenomenon informed by neurotic fears and doubts. In dream work it's like being mired in quicksand, escaping, only to fall into another, and another... before suddenly waking up bewildered, drenched in cold sweat. Edited July 2, 2022 by C T Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted July 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Mark Foote said: I think the best is to be mindful of the natural breath, and the body, as that's appropriate. I'm amazed that some people report good results from breathing unnaturally (so to speak)--my intuition has always been that to do so would be dangerous, but I don't know the facts (or if any research has been done, really). several thousand years of yoga science and research has been done, and beginners have been warned not to do advanced science experiments on their own without qualified teachers for the same amount of time... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted July 2, 2022 I bring it up because I'm curious about how a person would go about cultivating "channels", and the research my friend cited, such as it was, seemed to speak to that. He suggested some pranayama practices may emphasize the left or right channel. Lairg spoke to possible side-effects of such pranayama practices. I'm sure we're all wishing you a full recovery, Lairg! CT puts forward that science is not a reliable guide to yogic and other "union" practices, if I understand him correctly. Old3bob says that the practices of the various traditions have been attested to over many millennia by their practitioners and that constitutes some kind of science. "Dual", "non-dual" seems to me to be simple--experience by the mind that is stationary, or as the mind that moves. I'm elated to see the claim that ancient texts on yoga posit a relationship between the movement of breath and the movement of mind. Awareness of the movement of breath was an intrinsic part of the practice Gautama said was his way of living, and yet by the time of Naropa the emphasis had shifted to the non-dual mind alone. Is channel cultivation connected with pranayama, in traditional yoga? Is there an accepted method for the cultivation of three channels? I see a description of the three channels in Tibetan khagyu literature (explications of the Mahamudra), but the method of cultivation is just objectless meditation in the lotus posture. Maybe that's right, but the connection with the channels isn't really made explicit. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mark Foote said: I bring it up because I'm curious about how a person would go about cultivating "channels", and the research my friend cited, such as it was, seemed to speak to that. He suggested some pranayama practices may emphasize the left or right channel. Lairg spoke to possible side-effects of such pranayama practices. I'm sure we're all wishing you a full recovery, Lairg! CT puts forward that science is not a reliable guide to yogic and other "union" practices, if I understand him correctly. Old3bob says that the practices of the various traditions have been attested to over many millennia by their practitioners and that constitutes some kind of science. "Dual", "non-dual" seems to me to be simple--experience by the mind that is stationary, or as the mind that moves. I'm elated to see the claim that ancient texts on yoga posit a relationship between the movement of breath and the movement of mind. Awareness of the movement of breath was an intrinsic part of the practice Gautama said was his way of living, and yet by the time of Naropa the emphasis had shifted to the non-dual mind alone. Is channel cultivation connected with pranayama, in traditional yoga? Is there an accepted method for the cultivation of three channels? I see a description of the three channels in Tibetan khagyu literature (explications of the Mahamudra), but the method of cultivation is just objectless meditation in the lotus posture. Maybe that's right, but the connection with the channels isn't really made explicit. Well, there are many forms of Yoga that can be looked up on the web...karma, bhakti and jnana yoga are three major ones. Btw. the steps of Raja yoga listed below and followed under a teacher guidance are very important! 1. Yama - Self-control. 2. Niyama- Discipline. 3. Asana - Physical exercises. 4 .Pranayama - Breath exercises. 5. Pratyahara - Withdrawal of the senses from external objects. 6. Dharana - Concentration. 7. Dhyana - Meditation. 8. Contemplation so if we are on step one or even before that and try to skip the steps a teacher (or no teacher) has directed one to (a head teacher has gone through all the steps) and jump to step four in this list then trouble is very highly likely to follow as several folks have recounted at this site. more details on first two steps found on the web which require a lot:: "Yama - Self-Control consists of five principles: Ahimsa - Non-Violence Ahimsa means not to cause pain or harm to any living being by thought, word or deed. Non-violence also means not to kill. Consumption of meat requires the death of an animal. It is due to this principle that Yogis are Vegetarian. Animals have a keen instinct, which heightens their awareness of impending death. They sense when they are to be slaughtered and are in mortal fear. Fear and stress hormones are released throughout their body. These hormones remain in the flesh of the slaughtered animal and are eaten by unsuspecting people. Many apparently groundless fears, neuroses and psychoses have their origin in this food. Satya - Truthfulness To always speak the truth is good and correct, but more important is how we convey the truth. We have the capacity to hurl truth at someone like a knife, but we are also capable of clothing that same truth in loving words. In order not to violate the principle of Ahimsa as mentioned above, we should heed the advice of Mahaprabhuji, who said: “Each of your words should fall like flowers from your lips”. To be truthful also means not to hide your feelings, not to be evasive or make excuses. Perhaps for some time we can hide our true face from the eyes of others, but there is at least one person knows our inner truth - our own self. Our own consciousness is a witness. Asteya - Non-Stealing Asteya means that you should never take anything that rightfully belongs to another. This means not only material objects, but also the stealing of mental property, to rob someone of an opportunity, hope or joy. The exploitation of nature and destruction of the environment also fall into this category. Brahmacharya - Pure Way of Life Brahmacharya is often translated as sexual abstinence. But it actually consists of much more. Brahmacharya means that our thoughts should always be turned towards God. This doesn’t imply that we should neglect our duties in this world. On the contrary, we should fulfil these responsibilities with great care, but always with the awareness: “I am not the doer, God alone is the doer”. Aparigraha - Non-Accumulation of Possessions We should not accumulate goods, but only acquire and use what we need to live. One who has many possessions, also has many worries. We are born without belongings and when we again depart from this world, we leave all behind. Nonaccumulation also means to grant other people their freedom - not to hold onto others. In letting go, we also free ourselves. Therefore, to give freedom means to also to be free one’s self. Niyama - Discipline consists of five principles: Shauca - Purity Not only external purity, but more importantly, inner purity. Our clothing, our body, as well as our thoughts and feelings should be pure. The same holds true for the people we associate with. For our spiritual development it is of great benefit to keep good company of people who impart a good influence upon us, who are spiritual and support us with their wisdom. Santosh - Contentment Contentment is the greatest wealth we are able to possess. The Indian poet Tulsidas, said: “You may possess mines of gold and precious stone, but inner discontent destroys all wealth”. We can attain contentment only when we recognise that all worldly goods bring disappointment and that inner wealth provides more happiness than material possessions. Tapa - Self-Control, Self-Discipline In life, when we encounter adversity and obstacles, we should never give up. Rather we should continue on our chosen path with firm determination. To continue to practice, with self-discipline, patience and perseverance - this is the key to success. Svadhyaya - Study of the Holy Scriptures As Yoga aspirants we ought to acquaint ourselves with the traditional scriptures of Yoga philosophy, such as the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, etc. These scriptures impart valuable knowledge and provide great assistance on our Yoga path. Ishvara Pranidhana - Devotion to God Hand over all that you do to the Divine Self with pure devotion. God protects all who surrender with trust and faith. Edited July 2, 2022 by old3bob 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted July 2, 2022 22 hours ago, old3bob said: does that include quickly checking to see if anybody saw us stumble...as we all tend to do and also laugh at ourselves if seen, and even if the fall hurt... If nobody saw us stumble, I don't think we stumbled at all.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, manitou said: If nobody saw us stumble, I don't think we stumbled at all.... No of course not it was a practice recovery from an imagined slight rise on the path... Edited July 2, 2022 by natural 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted July 3, 2022 8 hours ago, old3bob said: Well, there are many forms of Yoga that can be looked up on the web. The assumption being that awareness of the three channels, their development, and their benefit are a side-effect of yoga? Not addressed directly in the teaching, but a corollary of general progress? That certainly resembles the approach in the commentary in "Mahamudra--Eliminating the Darkness of Ignorance", where the three channels are said to develop through objectless meditation in the lotus. Meaning, both approaches would seem to have nothing to do with the three channels, on the surface of things. At least, the connection to the three channels is not made explicit, either in your list of the steps in yoga, old3bob, or in the commentary on the 9th Karmapa's treatment of the Mahamudra. I was trying to bring it around to Bindi's pursuit of the development of the three channels, and the discovery of what practice/practices are explicitly directed toward that development. Maybe Daoist/martial arts practices aimed at the three dan t'iens? Seems like there's a lot of emphasis on the lowest dan t'ien, but things get a bit vague with regard to the middle and upper dan t'iens! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mark Foote said: The assumption being that awareness of the three channels, their development, and their benefit are a side-effect of yoga? Not addressed directly in the teaching, but a corollary of general progress? That certainly resembles the approach in the commentary in "Mahamudra--Eliminating the Darkness of Ignorance", where the three channels are said to develop through objectless meditation in the lotus. Meaning, both approaches would seem to have nothing to do with the three channels, on the surface of things. At least, the connection to the three channels is not made explicit, either in your list of the steps in yoga, old3bob, or in the commentary on the 9th Karmapa's treatment of the Mahamudra. I was trying to bring it around to Bindi's pursuit of the development of the three channels, and the discovery of what practice/practices are explicitly directed toward that development. Maybe Daoist/martial arts practices aimed at the three dan t'iens? Seems like there's a lot of emphasis on the lowest dan t'ien, but things get a bit vague with regard to the middle and upper dan t'iens! Can be a side effect, but not exclusively one. There are specific practices (quite a few) within the main schools of Tibetan Vajrayana and many more available due to the numerous sub-sects within those main schools. Because of this, instead of presenting my personal (biased) take, I'd recommend some readings which are available online. These are quite elaborate commentaries, and may not suit one who's not a seasoned practitioner of mantrayana. Its challenging, but at the same time, informative and elaborative enough to address some of your questions. * One's Own Body of Pure Channels and Elements - Naomi Worth * The Practice of the Dream Body - C. A. Muses * Highest Yoga Tantra - Daniel Cozort * Tantra: Concepts, Energy-Winds and Lineage - - - from the website of Berzin Archives * Death, Sleep and Orgasm: Gateways to the Mind of Clear Light by Jeffrey Hopkins There are more, but the above ought to be quite sufficient material to enable a better grasp from a Vajrayana pov what the cultivation of the central channel entails. Its pretty nuanced, and would require a certain degree of maturity in practice to sieve through it all to obtain clarity. None of the articles cross-ref with Taoist esoteric philosophy and practice, but enthusiastic readers can certainly draw their own correlations, and probably will. But personally, I'm a stickler for authenticity, so no mix and match for me. This 15 minute video may offer the important initial foothold pertinent to whats being discussed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVVq9Bts1KA Edited July 3, 2022 by C T Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mark Foote said: The assumption being that awareness of the three channels, their development, and their benefit are a side-effect of yoga? Not addressed directly in the teaching, but a corollary of general progress? That certainly resembles the approach in the commentary in "Mahamudra--Eliminating the Darkness of Ignorance", where the three channels are said to develop through objectless meditation in the lotus. Meaning, both approaches would seem to have nothing to do with the three channels, on the surface of things. At least, the connection to the three channels is not made explicit, either in your list of the steps in yoga, old3bob, or in the commentary on the 9th Karmapa's treatment of the Mahamudra. I was trying to bring it around to Bindi's pursuit of the development of the three channels, and the discovery of what practice/practices are explicitly directed toward that development. Maybe Daoist/martial arts practices aimed at the three dan t'iens? Seems like there's a lot of emphasis on the lowest dan t'ien, but things get a bit vague with regard to the middle and upper dan t'iens! I’ve got to say how I understand the three channels and how to work with them is entirely peculiar to me, but I’m happy to put forward my thoughts on them. Give or take the two main side channels are the dual ones, one side being male, and one side being female, the Ardhanarishvara figure (below) is a graphic demonstration of this, as is the yin/yang symbol. Where I differ is in equating the female side with emotions and water, and the male side with thoughts and air. So for me, to work on clearing the two main side channels is as straightforward as working with emotional ‘mud’ and it’s concomitant stuck thoughts. On a more subtle level this allows water to flow in the female channel and air to flow in the male channel. Opening these channels took me decades, but I think that work is mostly done for me. What happens in the central channel and other channels in the legs and arms is far more esoteric, and doesn’t really mean anything or make sense or is even needed to know until a lot of initial work with the two side channels and the lower dantian is done. Edited July 3, 2022 by Bindi 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Mark Foote said: The assumption being that awareness of the three channels, their development, and their benefit are a side-effect of yoga? Not addressed directly in the teaching, but a corollary of general progress? That certainly resembles the approach in the commentary in "Mahamudra--Eliminating the Darkness of Ignorance", where the three channels are said to develop through objectless meditation in the lotus. Meaning, both approaches would seem to have nothing to do with the three channels, on the surface of things. At least, the connection to the three channels is not made explicit, either in your list of the steps in yoga, old3bob, or in the commentary on the 9th Karmapa's treatment of the Mahamudra. I was trying to bring it around to Bindi's pursuit of the development of the three channels, and the discovery of what practice/practices are explicitly directed toward that development. Maybe Daoist/martial arts practices aimed at the three dan t'iens? Seems like there's a lot of emphasis on the lowest dan t'ien, but things get a bit vague with regard to the middle and upper dan t'iens! Mark, those were only tiny quotes from me concerning the huge body of yoga teachings!! I'd say that we can rest assured that real yoga masters (or true gurus) who have reached and maintained the last step of Raja Yoga, and or other forms of yoga teachers who have also reached that same last step per their school would get into more details for their students about channels along the way and when they decide it is appropriate. People can spend a lifetime(s) looking into this vast subject and Hinduism, thus a few paragraph's on this website do not hardly scratch the surface imo! For instance one could study a great deal about Lord Shiva, who is called the Lord of Yoga (and Shaivism), who Btw. is also recognized in several forms of Buddhism, perhaps by different names, anyway picking out info just on channels does not nearly address a very comprehensive subject although it's part of it. Btw #2 I'm not a qualified teacher, only someone trying to share the tiny bit I know of. Edited July 3, 2022 by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) Posted in the wrong thread. Edited July 3, 2022 by Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, C T said: But personally, I'm a stickler for authenticity, so no mix and match for me. For a "stickler for authenticity", C T, the list of writings and a seminar lecture you've given me appear to all be from modern sources (I haven't gotten to the video yet). I'll have to read more about Alexander Berzin, born in New Jersey in '44, but a cursory glance at the listing you gave yields: But anything that is made from these subtle energy-winds, or the chakras, the channels, the drops – creative energy drops – all these things in this system are part of samsara. You don’t have those as a Buddha. Let’s make that a little bit more specific: a Buddha has the subtlest energy-wind, which is the subtlest wind associated with the clear light mind, but a Buddha doesn’t have anything grosser than that. So a Buddha doesn’t have chakras and these sort of things. Don't we wonder what he means by "the subtlest energy-wind"--the "motile air" of Buddhaghosa, perhaps? Nevertheless, I'm thinking he's not going to be real useful as a source on developing the three channels, based on the above. Could be wrong! Thanks, Bindi, for the clarification of your approach. Edited July 3, 2022 by Mark Foote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) Following up on this quote: Ancient Indian texts on Yoga describe, “As the breath moves, so does the mind, and mind ceases to move as the breath is stopped.” (S. Muktibodhananda; Hatha yoga Pradipika: light on hatha yoga (2nd ed.), Yoga Publication Trust, Bihar (2002)) That would be based off the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, a 15th century classic, which Muktibodhananda translates: When prana moves, chitta (the mental force) moves. When prana is without movement, chitta is without movement. By this (steadiness of prana) the yogi attains steadiness and should thus restrain the vayu (air). (Ibid, p 150) He expands on the definition of vayu, a little farther on in the text--it's not just air: Vayu means ‘air,’ but it does not refer only to the gross air and its chemical properties; it indicates pranic air. In the pranic body, pingala channelizes prana shakti, but prana vayu moves throughout the whole body like waves of energy. It can be likened to an electromagnetic field where the energy is in constant motion. (Ibid, p 153) Muktibodhananda comments on the passage about prana and chitta: Prana and mind are intricately linked. Fluctuation of one means fluctuation of the other. When either the mind or prana becomes balanced the other is steadied. Hatha yoga says, control the prana and the mind is automatically controlled, whereas raja yoga says, control the mind and prana becomes controlled. These are two paths of yoga. (Ibid, p 150) Muktibodhananda then describes control of the breath, and in particular control of the interval between inhalation and exhalation, as the essential tool of yoga. He ascribes much of this characterization to Patanjali (per Wikipedia, author of yoga texts, living somewhere between 2nd century B.C.E. and 4th or 5th century C. E.?). I didn't realize that folks believed in such a gap between inhale and exhale and even advocated intentionally extending it as far back as that. I still think that intentionally altering the natural movement of breath is doing a violence to oneself. Muktibodhananda also gives us the alternative point of view: For many, many centuries, people have known that through pranic restraint you can control the influxes of the mind and through mental restraint you can control the influxes of prana, but various spiritual systems have been debating which is the best method to harness the two energies and induce unity. Christ and Lord Buddha said the same thing – ‘Lead a good life and your mind will be controlled.' (Ibid p 151-2) Muktibodhananda says that won't work for most people in the modern age, and begins to lay out what he conceives of as the science of yoga (and of the channels), based largely on the manipulation of the (presumed) interval between inhalation and exhalation: In the Upanishads, prana vayu is also called the ‘in breath,’ apana the ‘out breath,’ samana the ‘middle breath,’ and udana the ‘up breath.’ Prana vayu is inhalation, apana exhalation, samana the time between inhalation and exhalation, and udana, the extension of samana. ... From a yogic point of view the most important vayu is samana. It is related to sushumna nadi. Prana vayu is related to ida, apana to pingala, and ascension of kundalini to udana. Samana vayu has to be developed. This takes place by suspending apana and prana within the region of samana. Each vayu is interdependent and interconnected. In the Chandogya Upanishad it is asked, “On what are you (body and senses) and yourself (soul) supported? On prana. On what is prana supported? On apana. On what is apana supported? On vyana. On what is vyana supported? On samana.” ... Prana is the tangible manifestation of the higher Self. Hatha yoga uses prana as the key to expand the awareness of consciousness and realize the Self. Some systems of yoga aim at self-realization by purifying and concentrating the mind, others by purifying and channelizing the emotions, and some by purifying the intellect and developing wisdom. There are so many ways of redirecting the vital life force from the lower to the higher centers. (Ibid, p 155-7) The truth of all this, I wouldn't hold my breath to find out. Edited July 4, 2022 by Mark Foote Corrected, as the gap referenced is between inhalation and exhalation, not between exhalation and inhalation, as I first wrote. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites