Differences between dualism and non-dualism

[doc benway]

47 minutes ago, ralis said:

That is why authentic transmissions are non-verbal. 

 

I believe authentic transmission can include both verbal and non-verbal elements, not to mention symbols, metaphors, examples through behavior, and so forth. The way my teachers use the word transmission is to indicate that some knowledge has been effectively transferred from master to pupil, eg pointing out the nature of mind. Transmission is as dependent on the student as the teacher. If you don’t get it, no transmission has occurred. I find the word and concept of transmission is often too vague and implies something magical when the truth is relatively simple and down to earth. 

[natural]

9 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I believe authentic transmission can include both verbal and non-verbal elements, not to mention symbols, metaphors, examples through behavior, and so forth. The way my teachers use the word transmission is to indicate that some knowledge has been effectively transferred from master to pupil, eg pointing out the nature of mind. Transmission is as dependent on the student as the teacher. If you don’t get it, no transmission has occurred. I find the word and concept of transmission is often too vague and implies something magical when the truth is relatively simple and down to earth. 

 

Excuse me but how does "non-verbal" elements include symbols,.

How are metaphors and or examples of behavior non verbal?

As opposed to oral?

I realize it is a bit of nit picking, but it helps my understanding!

[ralis]

42 minutes ago, natural said:

 

Excuse me but how does "non-verbal" elements include symbols,.

How are metaphors and or examples of behavior non verbal?

As opposed to oral?

I realize it is a bit of nit picking, but it helps my understanding!

I’m out in Pecos Canyon on a job site and can give an example later. The raging Hermit’s Peak inferno is not far away. The village of Pecos is threatened. 

[natural]

10 minutes ago, ralis said:

I’m out in Pecos Canyon on a job site and can give an example later. The raging Hermit’s Peak inferno is not far away. The village of Pecos is threatened. 

 

Yikes!

Please stay safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ralis]

38 minutes ago, natural said:

 

Yikes!

Please stay safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! Hermit’s Peak inferno is at 301k acres this morning. There seems to be no stopping it. Taos and Angel Fire are both under evacuation status. Could happen at any time. 
 

Wildfires probably don’t exist given there is no one to experience it. 
 

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/

Edited May 18, 2022 by ralis

[natural]

What about all of the wild life that dies or is displaced?

[silent thunder]

1 minute ago, natural said:

What about all of the wild life that dies or is displaced?

Nothing is lost, ever.  All is fluid and shifting.

[natural]

I think depen

4 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Nothing is lost, ever.  All is fluid and shifting.

 

I think we can agree suffering occurs?

[natural]

Just now, natural said:

 

6 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Nothing is lost, ever.  All is fluid and shifting.

I think we can agree suffering occurs?

I may have lost my way on a slippery slope unequipped to deal with the weather?

[ralis]

15 minutes ago, natural said:

What about all of the wild life that dies or is displaced?

I am not into Advaita or this no self business since my experience is really different. In fact, I have yet to find anyone that shares my primordial experience. Everyone seems to have by the book experiences.Mine is not in any book. 

It disturbs me to see animal  habitat lost. 
 

I have spent much time in the natural world away from pesky humans and many of those places are gone due to human stupidity. 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by ralis

[silent thunder]

10 minutes ago, natural said:

I think depen

 

I think we can agree suffering occurs?

I used to agree with this... 15 years of chronic pain brought a realization that has endured.

When one has a body, there will be discomfort, there may be pain.  This does not mean i must suffer.

 

Suffering is now experienced as a crisis of perception.  It manifests internally generated and entirely optional, in my experience.

[natural]

Just now, silent thunder said:

I used to agree with this... 15 years of chronic pain brought a realization that has endured.

When one has a body, there will be discomfort, there may be pain.  This does not mean i must suffer.

 

Suffering is now experienced as a crisis of perception.  It manifests internally generated and entirely optional, in my experience.

 

Hmm try that on an injured animal?

 

[silent thunder]

5 minutes ago, ralis said:

I am not into Advaita or this no self business since my experience is really different. In fact, I have yet to find anyone that shares my primordial experience. Everyone seems to have by the book experiences.Mine is not in any book. 

It disturbs me to see animal  habitat lost. 
 

I have spent much time in the natural world away from pesky humans and many of those places are gone due to human stupidity. 

 

Interesting to read recently that wildfires in areas outside human habitation can burn much further due to density of growth.  Safe to say that ancient wildfires before cities, burned far vaster regions.  There is a natural balance to all process.  Nature wastes nothing.  New growth will arise in the wake of the ash.

[silent thunder]

Just now, natural said:

 

Hmm try that on an injured animal?

 

I have approached many injured animals and settled them with presence and intention, so they could be treated effectively.

[natural]

Just now, silent thunder said:

Interesting to read recently that wildfires in areas outside human habitation can burn much further due to density of growth.  Safe to say that ancient wildfires before cities, burned far vaster regions.  There is a natural balance to all process.  Nature wastes nothing.  New growth will arise in the wake of the ash.

 

Are we not natural? 

Agents of nature?

[silent thunder]

15 minutes ago, natural said:

 

Are we not natural? 

Agents of nature?

Of course.

 

Not sure why you ask... no where did i imply humans are unnatural.  You inferred that.

Edited May 18, 2022 by silent thunder

[ralis]

5 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Interesting to read recently that wildfires in areas outside human habitation can burn much further due to density of growth.  Safe to say that ancient wildfires before cities, burned far vaster regions.  There is a natural balance to all process.  Nature wastes nothing.  New growth will arise in the wake of the ash.

This particular fire is an out of control prescribed burn. Another example of human stupidity. 

[natural]

2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I have approached many injured animals and settled them with presence and intention, so they could be treated effectively.

 

Is that a typical reaction?

By both people and injured animals?

I have lost count of the dog, cat, snake,rodent, insect  bites or scratches I have undertaken, / not suffered?

[silent thunder]

Just now, ralis said:

This particular fire is an out of control prescribed burn. Another example of human stupidity. 

Ack!  That is ugly, i was unaware it was started on purpose.  So short sighted, our seeming incessant nature to meddle and try to 'improve' so often does the opposite.

[ralis]

7 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I have approached many injured animals and settled them with presence and intention, so they could be treated effectively.

 

Treated effectively?

[natural]

2 minutes ago, ralis said:

This particular fire is an out of control prescribed burn. Another example of human stupidity. 

 

As if we needed it!

[silent thunder]

8 minutes ago, natural said:

 

Is that a typical reaction?

By both people and injured animals?

I have lost count of the dog, cat, snake,rodent, insect  bites or scratches I have undertaken, / not suffered?

Ok so you've experienced pain without suffering then?  i don't sense what you're driving at with this.

 

7 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

Treated effectively?

Yes.  If warranted.

Edited May 18, 2022 by silent thunder

[silent thunder]

...

Edited May 18, 2022 by silent thunder

[natural]

15 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Of course.

 

Not sure why you ask... no where did i imply humans are unnatural.  You inferred that.

That was not my intention, to infer you suggested we are not part of nature, but rather an effort to reach a common understanding. 

[old3bob]

57 minutes ago, natural said:

 

Are we not natural? 

Agents of nature?

 

mankind has a degree of will, will which can be used for good or evil as in with universal dharma or against it,  animals and most creatures of mother nature as far as I know can not go against such dharma or ways.