Original Dao Bums

[wandelaar]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

But I think you're mistaken when you say that the "other side has no way to express it's own interpretation."  Yes it's true that at one point Sean told right wing members of the board to go.  That was then, this is now.  I suspect that in practice -- if not theory -- right wing members would find this a hospitable place to say what's on their mind  (so long as they did so in a respectful, civil manner).

 

You might be right, maybe things have changed. I don't know...

Edited January 17, 2023 by wandelaar

[wandelaar]

@Shadow_self

 

I never said the TTC is only about politics. It's about politics, metaphysics, daily life, strategy, mysticism, meditation, simple living, creative thinking, ...

 

But the song remains the same: it's no use discussing with (true) believers.

[Shadow_self]

25 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

@Shadow_self

 

I never said the TTC is only about politics. It's about politics, metaphysics, daily life, strategy, mysticism, meditation, simple living, creative thinking, ...

 

But the song remains the same: it's no use discussing with (true) believers.

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said you said that.

 

There's no point in me trying to re-explain this, as its been mentioned elsewhere several times

 

 

Quote

To achieve sagehood, a teacher isn’t required - it can be attained with a method alone (and a lot of luck, discipline and natural talent of course)... The DDJ is a method to become a shengren for example.

 

 

Quote

The ‘people’ are aspects of the heart-mind.

 

The governing is happening internally. 

 

The implication of course here is that the original purpose of the DDJ is to give those with the correct means to interpret it a method for inner transformation

 

The rest was extrapolated out of it, as it was encoded/hidden via the aforementioned literary devices.

 

And that was also intentional  

[Straybird]

12 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

My "translation" of the DDJ above was meant as a joke.  

 

If somebody feels the need for another forum on Reddit or anywhere else, well, that could be a very good thing.  I hope it thrives.  But I think you're mistaken when you say that the "other side has no way to express it's own interpretation."  Yes it's true that at one point Sean told right wing members of the board to go.  That was then, this is now.  I suspect that in practice -- if not theory -- right wing members would find this a hospitable place to say what's on their mind  (so long as they did so in a respectful, civil manner). 

 

While I consider myself mostly a leftie, I've also expressed views which don't accord with the prevailing progressive stance.  Who knows, perhaps my future here has been a hot topic among the moderators?  In any case my views have not gotten me kicked off the board, much to the chagrin of at least one board member I'm sure.  There might be more room for debate here than you think.

 

I quoted the owner of the forum.  As far as I know this stance has not changed. Yes thedaobums.com is a great forum, possibly the best on the internet for discussing taoism and other spiritual traditions, but only for people with certain types of opinions, and beliefs.  Right now it's a don't ask, don't tell situation for everyone else. Can a person ever really feel welcome if they have to self censor to such a degree?

 

There seems to be a lot of pushback for us using reddit for the forum, do you feel proboards or forummotion would be better?

[Bhathen]

@Straybird 

Have you looked into the ease of exporting reddit chats to proboards or others?

[Straybird]

8 hours ago, Bhathen said:

@Straybird 

Have you looked into the ease of exporting reddit chats to proboards or others?

 

Nothing from reddit would transfer, but so far it seems people hate reddit and would prefer a traditional forum experience?

[wandelaar]

What makes you think people hate Reddit?

[wandelaar]

@Straybird

 

I just took another look at the Discord successor of Original Dao, and apparently it's still alive and kicking. So if you like to see your discussions on Taoism larded with Joe Blast's lunatic conspiracy theories, then that's the place to be. On Original Dao that kind of bullshit was at least abandoned to a hidden part of the forum so that normal people could talk about Taoism and spirituality without having to wade through right wing extremist propaganda. I think that that's the real reason why there is hardly any activity on or interest for Original Tao - not that it's on Reddit but that people who like the right wing extremist kind of stuff already have a place to go. Or is your aim to rather create a place where old-fashioned conservatives (and thus not the Trumpian variety) would feel at home?

[Straybird]

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

@Straybird

 

I just took another look at the Discord successor of Original Dao, and apparently it's still alive and kicking. So if you like to see your discussions on Taoism larded with Joe Blast's lunatic conspiracy theories, then that's the place to be. On Original Dao that kind of bullshit was at least abandoned to a hidden part of the forum so that normal people could talk about Taoism and spirituality without having to wade through right wing extremist propaganda. I think that that's the real reason why there is hardly any activity on or interest for Original Tao - not that it's on Reddit but that people who like the right wing extremist kind of stuff already have a place to go. Or is your aim to rather create a place where old-fashioned conservatives (and thus not the Trumpian variety) would feel at home?

 

I've never been a fan of discord as a platform.

 

The aim would be to create a community where others would share what they wanted within reason.

[wandelaar]

Within reason, or also on topic? The reason I left the Discord version is that there anyone can say what they want in any topic. The result is that fanatics who cannot help themselves will spoil the whole place with their unhinged rantings. That's why complete freedom for an internet forum doesn't work. What would you do when someone on your new forum continually posted extremist political content all over the place that had nothing to do with the Taoist and spiritual topics discussed?

 

My impression is that you are avoiding to consider the crucial thing that is at stake here: how to allow "talking politics" on a forum devoted to Taoism (and spirituality) without disrupting the discussion of Taoism (and spirituality) itself. Original Dao had a hidden part of the forum for the discussion of controversial subjects, but the Discord version (as far as I know) has refused to do so with the predictable result that it's being misused as a mouthpiece by political extremists. You will have take a solid stand in this matter or history will repeat itself.

Edited January 19, 2023 by wandelaar

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

I don't understand why people need to bring politics into everything. Why should it matter if you are right wing, left wing, centrist, whatever, we are talking about cultivation, scripture, practices, etc. Leave your politics at the door, we have the entire internet for that. 

[Straybird]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I don't understand why people need to bring politics into everything. Why should it matter if you are right wing, left wing, centrist, whatever, we are talking about cultivation, scripture, practices, etc. Leave your politics at the door, we have the entire internet for that. 

 

Imagine you were gay, and you went to a university with a policy that any homosexual students would be expelled.

 

If that were me I think I would find a different school, just because I would want to be who I am without fear of other people finding out.

 

That wouldn't mean that sexuality would be the main focus of your new school.

[wandelaar]

@Straybird

 

I think you have a point here. But in practice it doesn't work out that way. After all Original Dao slowly died for lack of interest, and your new attempt on Reddit is largely ignored. Those like you and me who would prefer a Taoist site where the whole political spectrum can feel at home appear to only form a small minority, and too small to make for a vibrant community. Furthermore those on the extremes are much more motivated to put their political statements wherever they can and so internet sites eventually tend to lean one way or the other. Unless of course politics is banned, or relegated to a separate (and sometimes hidden) subforum. You might not personally like Discord but those on the Right seem to be happy with it. So at the moment I don't see your attempt to start a neutral Taoist discussion site as viable.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 hours ago, Straybird said:

 

Imagine you were gay, and you went to a university with a policy that any homosexual students would be expelled.

 

If that were me I think I would find a different school, just because I would want to be who I am without fear of other people finding out.

 

That wouldn't mean that sexuality would be the main focus of your new school.

First of all the problem with your argument is people are born gay and can’t change it, no one is born right wing or left wing. 

Second of all the complete irony is that it would most likely be a right wing leaning university that would discriminate against homosexuals.

 

Also it so hard to discuss how to fill the LDT without telling everyone who you voted for in the last election?

[Straybird]

4 hours ago, wandelaar said:

@Straybird

 

I think you have a point here. But in practice it doesn't work out that way. After all Original Dao slowly died for lack of interest, and your new attempt on Reddit is largely ignored. Those like you and me who would prefer a Taoist site where the whole political spectrum can feel at home appear to only form a small minority, and too small to make for a vibrant community. Furthermore those on the extremes are much more motivated to put their political statements wherever they can and so internet sites eventually tend to lean one way or the other. Unless of course politics is banned, or relegated to a separate (and sometimes hidden) subforum. You might not personally like Discord but those on the Right seem to be happy with it. So at the moment I don't see your attempt to start a neutral Taoist discussion site as viable.

 

I think it died out mostly because the site owner didn't have the time, money or energy to devote to maintaining it.

 

A lot of people have made it known they don't like reddit, we are considering moving to a forum like forum motion or proboards.

 

[Straybird]

3 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

First of all the problem with your argument is people are born gay and can’t change it, no one is born right wing or left wing. 

Second of all the complete irony is that it would most likely be a right wing leaning university that would discriminate against homosexuals.

 

Also it so hard to discuss how to fill the LDT without telling everyone who you voted for in the last election?

 

No analogy is perfect, but the one I gave was a fairly good one.

 

There are a lot of people here who aren't comfortable being who they are, and having to self censor.

 

Right now it's don't ask, don't tell.

[wandelaar]

35 minutes ago, Straybird said:

I think it died out mostly because the site owner didn't have the time, money or energy to devote to maintaining it.

 

Seems we are running in circles. There was hardly any activity left on the public part of the forum before it closed down. So even if the site owner had had the time, money or energy to continue than that would only have kept an inactive forum online. 

 

35 minutes ago, Straybird said:

A lot of people have made it known they don't like reddit, we are considering moving to a forum like forum motion or proboards.

 

Apparently you have some information that I'm missing... For now I will see what happens, good luck.

[Nungali]

I find it funny that the people that split from here ( as they had political issues and  didnt like the way they where censured here) , split off an made another forum called ORIGINAL  Dao  ( )  , then had the  same problems then closed down .

 

So if  Straybird doesnt like it here .... feels censored or what ever  , it is a very simple and obvious solution isnt it  ? 

 

 

Take off .... and stop friggin whinging about it !  - under the guise of  what platform could I use  to make a new forum .

[doc benway]

14 hours ago, Straybird said:

There are a lot of people here who aren't comfortable being who they are

 

There's a surgical procedure to fix that...

 

.... then again, those people who don't feel like they can be "who they are" here in our little snow globe are probably not OK with the people who have surgery to be more comfortable with who they are... 

 

 

... ironic, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps - in case it’s not obvious this is intended as humor, I don’t mean to offend 

[Nungali]

Surgery ? !    Thats a bit rad !

 

If they are not comfortable ....  perhaps start with a pipe and slippers and a dressing gown  first .

[ChiDragon]

On 1/23/2023 at 4:45 AM, Straybird said:

I think it died out mostly because the site owner didn't have the time, money or energy to devote to maintaining it.

Yes, it was the case.
I left here and was invited to go there. I came back here twice which means I was here three times. During the three-time period, I had seen three different groups of people presented here. The attitude of the people, here, had changed quite a bit. Some hostile people are gone, and people with various attitude remains. Still, sadly, the new comers did not stay long.

[Straybird]

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, it was the case.
I left here and was invited to go there. I came back here twice which means I was here three times. During the three-time period, I had seen three different groups of people presented here. The attitude of the people, here, had changed quite a bit. Some hostile people are gone, and people with various attitude remains. Still, sadly, the new comers did not stay long.

 

ChiDragon,

 

We've had a lot of comments about reddit being a poor choice.  Do you think proboards or forummotion forums might be a better choice?  We'd like to do dedicated hosted but it's a large expense.

[ChiDragon]

33 minutes ago, Straybird said:

 

ChiDragon,

 

We've had a lot of comments about reddit being a poor choice.  Do you think proboards or forummotion forums might be a better choice?  We'd like to do dedicated hosted but it's a large expense.

Sorry, I can't think about it now. Thanks for asking!

 

[ilumairen]

On 1/16/2023 at 7:11 PM, Shadow_self said:

If you think the people who wrote the Dao De Jing were trying to convey a political message, You really need to go and find someone who knows how to  actually interpret as it was intended it to teach you whats really in there.

 

 

On 1/17/2023 at 10:12 AM, wandelaar said:

 

I never said the TTC is only about politics. It's about politics, metaphysics, daily life, strategy, mysticism, meditation, simple living, creative thinking, .

 

 

On 1/17/2023 at 11:14 AM, Shadow_self said:

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said you said that.

 

But, I find in the above that you certainly seemed to imply it, and that your post comes across in a way that makes it also seem perfectly reasonable to me that the individual would feel compelled to clarify their own actual position on the subject - especially since you seemed to be casting some shade on them for what you didn’t directly say, but did imply.

 

You’ve been reported for the above exchange, and I would personally appreciate it if you could reign in the underhanded dispersions a bit. Thank you.

[wandelaar]

Personally I simply tend to avoid further discussion with people like Shadow_self who resort to discussion tricks to win a discussion no matter what. That also solves the issue. But it would indeed be more pleasant for everybody when Shadow_self would at least try to understand what others are saying before disputing it.