The reason why a person who only has qi in his lower abdomen can't understand the Huang Tingjing

[awaken]

當你練出眼前虛空的玄關一竅之後

當你開啟中丹田之後

你就可以遠端感應人的氣

你的氣越純淨

你能感知到的就越清晰

After you have reach the empty space of Xiuan guang in front of your eyes

After you open the middle dantian

you can remotely sense the Qi of a person

The purer your Qi is

The clearer you can perceive

 

你可以收到搬運法練習者下腹部瘋狂的氣動

你可以收到自發功練習者頭頂百會開啟的空洞

你可以收到病人的病氣

你也可以收到跟你一樣，中丹田開啟者的氣

 

You can receive crazy Qi in the lower abdomen of the carrying method practitioners

You can receive the hole opened by the Baihui above the head of the spontaneous gong practitioner

You can receive sick Qi from the patient

You can also receive the same Qi as you, the opener of the middle dantian

Edited May 13, 2022 by awaken

[awaken]

但是貪欲過重的人

是沒辦法這樣練的

因為這樣練有一個很大的前提

就是能夠性住氣自回

沒有性功的底子

滿腦子貪欲謊言的人

是沒辦法這樣練的

因為這些練法，完全是道法自然

意的清淨非常重要

帶著嚴重的執念把氣固定在下腹部

會嚴重污染意

不可能練出清淨的意土

所以人品非常重要

沒有好的德性是沒辦法修道的

 

But those who are too greedy

There's no way to practice like this

Because this practice has a big premise

is to be able to hold back

no foundation

A man full of greed and lies

There's no way to practice like this

Because these exercises are completely natural

Purity of mind is very important

With serious obsession to fix the qi in the lower abdomen

will seriously pollute

It is impossible to cultivate a pure mind

So character is very important

Without good virtue, there is no way to cultivate Dao

 

所以老子道德經的原始版本

並非把道放在前面

而是把德放在前面

沒有德就沒有道

 

So the original version of Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching

not putting Dao first

but put virtue first

Without virtue, there is no Dao

Edited May 13, 2022 by awaken

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 hours ago, awaken said:

 

感謝你

你願意證明初學者就能看到烏肝光

你很特別，因為把氣固定在下腹部的人，是很難看到光的，你應該是在練習的後半段有整個放鬆開，所以光才會出現

 

如果有嚴重的知覺障礙的人，會在整個練習中，都把注意力死死的固定在下腹部

這種人就算練三十年也不會出現光，而且性格上會變得非常頑固

 

烏肝光跟北極光很像，氣比較強的人看到的濃度比較高，氣比較弱的人看到的濃度比較低，會更像北極光

 

Thank you

You are willing to prove that beginners can see black liver light

You are very special, because it is difficult for people who fix their qi in the lower abdomen to see the light. You should relax and open up in the second half of the practice, so the light will appear.

If someone have severe sensory impairment, their attention will be fixed on the lower abdomen throughout the exercise.

This kind of people will not appear light even after 30 years of practice, and will become very stubborn in character

 

 

Black Liver Light is very similar to the Northern Lights. People with strong qi see a higher concentration, and people with weak qi see a lower concentration, which is more like the Northern Lights.

 

如果你能領悟我在另外一個主題所講的關於非二元的內容，那你的烏肝光就會在後半段長出兔髓光，你就能進一步證明我說的是對的

 

這個部分是屬於性功，希望你成功

 

If you can comprehend what I'm talking about in another topic about non-duality, then your black liver light will grow rabbit marrow light in the second half, and you will be able to further prove that I am right.

This part belongs to sing goung, I hope you succeed

I don't think you understand what I meant. I see the black liver light by focusing on my lower abdomen and lower dantien. 

[awaken]

 

 

就這樣吧

道不同不相為謀

 

So be it

Different road non-phase plan

 

把人想得太善良是我的錯

It's my fault for thinking people are too kind

Edited May 13, 2022 by awaken

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Just now, awaken said:

 

你如果沒有放鬆，烏肝是不可能會出現的

烏肝的出現一定跟注意力的鬆開有絕對的關係

 

If you don't relax, black liver will not appear

The appearance of black liver must have an absolute relationship with the relaxation of attention

 

當然你這種態度，我不奢望你能誠實回答

就這樣吧

道不同不相為謀

 

Of course your attitude, I don't expect you to answer honestly

So be it

Different road non-phase plan

 

我覺得我是對人性太樂觀了

 

I think I'm too optimistic about human nature

Just because what I say and experience contradicts what you are teaching does not mean I'm not answering honestly.

I was also able to see black liver sometimes before starting cultivation so maybe I'm special like you too.

[awaken]

說太多沒用

Talking too much is useless for us

 

 

 

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

7 minutes ago, awaken said:

說太多沒用

Talking too much is useless for us

 

 

 

 

 

No, showing that what you say has been proven wrong is very useful for new practitioners coming to this website

[awaken]

沒有道德的信任度，就沒有真相

 

Without moral trust, there is no truth

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by awaken

[鞏三孝]

13 hours ago, awaken said:

態度拿出來再說吧

 

天啊。還好您把這幾句給刪了。別人看到您多麽刻薄，您來這裏招生真的會有困難。歹鬥陣欸~。

 

Omg. Fortunately, you deleted those sentences. It's really going to be difficult for you to come here to recruit people when people see how cruel you can be with words. 

 

13 hours ago, awaken said:

黃庭經 Yellow Court Classic

道德經 Tao Te Ching

參同契 Can T'ung Chi

悟真篇 Wu Zhen Pian - Awakening to Reality

金剛經 Diamond Sutra 

圓覺經 Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment

楞伽經 Lankavatara Sutra

心經 Heart Sutra

阿含經 Arahant Sutra

 

如上所列出的書名，無一本在講將氣練成光的事情。亦不講自發功。

 

Of all the books above, none of them talk about turning Qi into light. Nor do they speak of spontaneous Qigong.

 

11 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

No, showing that what you say has been proven wrong is very useful for new practitioners coming to this website

 

Indeed. Awaken usually talks about her spiritual system very rigidly. But in reality, her system can suddenly change. Two days ago Awaken said that the people who focus on their lower dantian were not only impossible to achieve anything, but she also said they have dirty and foul smelling auras. Now after reading your post, she has changed her mind. Now she says that some people who want to guard the dantian can see the phenomenon of the northern lights. But only yesterday she was criticizing with extreme harshness.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

50 minutes ago, 鞏三孝 said:

Indeed. Awaken usually talks about her spiritual system very rigidly. But in reality, her system can suddenly change. Two days ago Awaken said that the people who focus on their lower dantian were not only impossible to achieve anything, but she also said they have dirty and foul smelling auras. Now after reading your post, she has changed her mind. Now she says that some people who want to guard the dantian can see the phenomenon of the northern lights. But only yesterday she was criticizing with extreme harshness.

I know, it's insane. She literally went and edited her previous comments after I posted. I'm very worried for people who are learning from her. Not only are they following bad translations from google, but that whatever she says can change depending on her mood.

 

I really hope they don't run into any problems.

[鞏三孝]

23 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I know, it's insane. She literally went and edited her previous comments after I posted. I'm very worried for people who are learning from her. Not only are they following bad translations from google, but that whatever she says can change depending on her mood.

 

I really hope they don't run into any problems.

 

Seems likely to run into problems.

 

On page 2 Awaken is talking about hearing voices in practice:

 

On 5/12/2022 at 9:09 PM, awaken said:

Do you hear outside voices at this time?

 

When the person says yes, she says:

 

On 5/12/2022 at 9:28 PM, awaken said:

那就是了
你的現象就是烏肝，

That's it
Your phenomenon is black liver

 

Even if Awaken is a real master, teaching people with Google Translator on the internet, very dangerous. How to know if this is triggering auditory hallucinations or something else? How to give proper guidance? Meditation can induce psychosis. Tragedy if this happens.

[awaken]

九氣映明出霄間

 

讓我們來看一下google怎麼翻譯

 

Jiu Qi reflects brightly out of the sky

Let's see how google translate

 

我的想法，九氣並非指九種氣，而是指『九』為陽數之最大，因此九氣是最大的陽氣，也就是達到巔峰的陽氣

 

In my opinion, nine qi does not refer to nine kinds of qi, but refers to "nine" being the largest number of yang, so nine qi is the largest yang qi, that is, the yang qi that reaches its peak

 

『映明』則是陽氣到達巔峰，產生光明，直達霄間

 

所以在這邊我們可以看到，陽氣到達頂點之後，會產生光明

 

"Yingming" means that the yang energy reaches its peak, producing light and reaching the sky

So here we can see that after the yang qi reaches its peak, it will produce light

 

『霄間』則是天上，在這邊如果與人體相對應，有的經書會解釋為天門，意思是兩眉之間，也就是眼前虛空玄關一竅所在

 

"Xiaojian" is the sky. If it corresponds to the human body here, some scriptures will interpret it as the gate of heaven, which means between the eyebrows, that is, where the empty in front of the eyes.

 

所以整體來說是，達到巔峰的陽氣，會在眼前虛空玄關竅出現光明

 

So on the whole, the yang Qi that has reached its peak will appear bright in empty Xiuan Guang Chiau in front of the eyes.

搬運法把玄關當成下腹部，下腹部再怎麼解釋都不可能解釋為『霄間』

 

The transport method regards the Xiuan Guang as the lower abdomen, and no matter how the lower abdomen is explained, it is impossible to interpret it as "Xiaojian"(the sky)

 

所以搬運法練習者看不懂黃庭經

Therefore, practitioners of the transfer method cannot understand Huang Tingjing.

Edited May 14, 2022 by awaken

[Cobie]

16 minutes ago, awaken said:

… nine qi does not refer to nine kinds of qi, but refers to "nine" being the largest number of yang … its peak

I think so too.

[Cobie]

15 hours ago, awaken said:

… Without good virtue, there is no way to cultivate Dao …

 

I think so too. : )

[awaken]

神蓋童子生紫煙

來看一下google怎麼翻譯

 

God cover boy gives birth to purple smoke

Let's see how google translate

 

神蓋就是眉毛

童子就是瞳孔

講的一樣就是眼前虛空（玄關竅）

 

God cover is eyebrow，god is shen, is eyes. cover eyes is eyebrow

Children are pupils

童（children）is 瞳（pupils）

It is the same as the empty in front of eyes (Xiuan guang Chiao)

 

生紫煙

產生紫色的煙

這很明顯就是紫色的烏肝

 

raw purple smoke

produces purple smoke

It's obviously purple black liver

 

之前說過烏肝有各種顏色，紫色是其中一種顏色

紫色的氣機作用點在頂輪，屬於比較高靈性者才會出現的

一般搬運法練習者不會出現紫色的烏肝，而是出現橘紅色的，頻率比較低，位於生殖輪的光

而這些搬運法練習者也會把橘紅色的烏肝認為是金丹，是很嚴重的誤解之一

 

I said before that black liver has various colors, and purple is one of them.

The action point of the purple qi is on the crown chakra, which only appears for those with higher spirituality.

Generally, practitioners of the transfer method will not appear purple black liver, but orange-red, with a relatively low frequency, located in the light of the reproductive chakra.

And these carrying（transfer） method practitioners also think that the orange-red black liver is a golden Dan, which is one of the serious misunderstandings.

 

所以搬運法練習者看不懂黃庭經，因為都把氣固定在下腹部，只能出現橘紅色低頻率的光，無法出現高頻率的紫色光

 

Therefore, practitioners of the Carrying Method cannot understand the Huang Ting Jing, because they all fix the Qi in the lower abdomen, so only the orange-red low-frequency light can appear, but the high-frequency purple light cannot appear.

 

總而言之，這句話的意思是，在眼前虛空的玄關竅，出現如同煙一般的紫光

 

All in all, the meaning of this sentence is that a purple light like smoke appears in empty in front of eyes(Xiuan guang).

 

[Michael Sternbach]

1 minute ago, awaken said:

神蓋童子生紫煙

來看一下google怎麼翻譯

 

God cover boy gives birth to purple smoke

Let's see how google translate

 

神蓋就是眉毛

童子就是瞳孔

講的一樣就是眼前虛空（玄關竅）

 

God cover is eyebrow，god is shen, is eyes. cover eyes is eyebrow

Children are pupils

童（children）is 瞳（pupils）

It is the same as the empty in front of eyes (Xiuan guang Chiao)

 

生紫煙

產生紫色的煙

這很明顯就是紫色的烏肝

 

raw purple smoke

produces purple smoke

It's obviously purple black liver

 

之前說過烏肝有各種顏色，紫色是其中一種顏色

紫色的氣機作用點在頂輪，屬於比較高靈性者才會出現的

一般搬運法練習者不會出現紫色的烏肝，而是出現橘紅色的，頻率比較低，位於生殖輪的光

而這些搬運法練習者也會把橘紅色的烏肝認為是金丹，是很嚴重的誤解之一

 

I said before that black liver has various colors, and purple is one of them.

The action point of the purple qi is on the crown chakra, which only appears for those with higher spirituality.

Generally, practitioners of the transfer method will not appear purple black liver, but orange-red, with a relatively low frequency, located in the light of the reproductive chakra.

And these carrying（transfer） method practitioners also think that the orange-red black liver is a golden Dan, which is one of the serious misunderstandings.

 

所以搬運法練習者看不懂黃庭經，因為都把氣固定在下腹部，只能出現橘紅色低頻率的光，無法出現高頻率的紫色光

 

Therefore, practitioners of the Carrying Method cannot understand the Huang Ting Jing, because they all fix the Qi in the lower abdomen, so only the orange-red low-frequency light can appear, but the high-frequency purple light cannot appear.

 

總而言之，這句話的意思是，在眼前虛空的玄關竅，出現如同煙一般的紫光

 

All in all, the meaning of this sentence is that a purple light like smoke appears in empty in front of eyes(Xiuan guang).

 

 

Yes, red and orange are the colours of the first and second chakra, respectively, while purple is the colour of the crown chakra. This is from the Hindu system - interesting, that you are making this kind of connection. 

[awaken]

3 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Yes, red and orange are the colours of the first and second chakra, respectively, while purple is the colour of the crown chakra. This is from the Hindu system - interesting, that you are making this kind of connection. 

 

One of my teachers is a yogi

I learned some meditation methods from her thirty-two years ago.

Edited May 14, 2022 by awaken

[Cobie]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

… they all fix the Qi in the lower abdomen, so only the orange-red low-frequency light can appear, but the high-frequency purple light cannot appear. …

 

I find the Hindu chakra system very helpful and have been using it for 50 years now. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cobie

[Cheshire Cat]

太乙金華宗旨 "The secret of the golden flower" 

 

There are -at least- three translations of three different versions of the text. 

The one from Thomas Cleary talks about internal lights and other meditation experiences described in this thread.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cheshire Cat

[Iskote]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Cat said:

太乙金華宗旨 "The secret of the golden flower" 

 

There are -at least- three translations of three different versions of the text. 

The one from Thomas Cleary talks about internal lights and other meditation experiences described in this thread.

 

Hello Chesire Cat. As has already been mentioned here previously, one should be aware that books on daoist internal alchemy and similar practices typically contain a lot of symbolism, and therefore one should be very cautious of literal interpretations. Internal alchemy and similar cultivation practices were traditionally taught in person from teacher to student, and the teacher would explain the hidden meanings to the student when the student is ready to comprehend it, based on the student's current stage and achievement level. Their can apparently be different layers of meaning 'encoded' within the symbolism used. 

 

[Iskote]

I have just re-read through this whole thread from the start to the current end. 
My impressions are that much of the content is very chaotic and imbalanced.  

 

My concern is that if people who are interested in daoist cultivation practices read through this thread, I think they would likely come away with a very bad impression overall. It might very well appear to them that 'internal alchemy' practice and similar leads to a practitioner having a very imbalanced and obsessive mind/ego and very chaotic and combative 'energy'. 

 

From my own limited understanding of the dao de jing, some characteristics of 'dao' in its 'manifestation' include such characteristics as humility, simplicity, naturalness, and balance. 
Therefore, one might expect someone who has made some some real progress in daoist or similar cultivation, whatever the cultivation system, to embody some of those characteristics to some noticeable extent. 

We are all human beings, and we all have human faults, but I think it is reasonable to expect that someone who has made some real progress in 'self cultivation' to show some actual noticeable refinement in their behavior and actions and outlook, otherwise what is the point of self cultivation? 

 

My suggestion to people who may be interested in daoist or other cultivation systems is, try to get to know any given teacher for some time before making a decision about whether you really want to commit to learning from them long term. The old adage that 'actions speak louder than words', is very wise, IMO. 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Iskote

[Cheshire Cat]

42 minutes ago, Iskote said:

 

Hello Chesire Cat. As has already been mentioned here previously, one should be aware that books on daoist internal alchemy and similar practices typically contain a lot of symbolism, and therefore one should be very cautious of literal interpretations. Internal alchemy and similar cultivation practices were traditionally taught in person from teacher to student, and the teacher would explain the hidden meanings to the student when the student is ready to comprehend it, based on the student's current stage and achievement level. Their can apparently be different layers of meaning 'encoded' within the symbolism used. 

 

 

I have the impression that this portion of the text could be literal.

 

http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch6.html

 

 

6. 现在证验，可考有三；一则坐去，神入谷中，闻人说话，如隔里许，一一明了，而声入皆如谷中答响，未尝不闻，我未尝一闻，此为神在谷中，随时可以自验；

 

 

7. 一则静中，目光腾腾，满前皆白，如在云中，开眼觅身，无从觅视，此为虚室生白，内外通明，吉祥止止也。

 

 

8. 一则静中，肉身絪縕，如绵如玉，坐中若留不住，而腾腾上浮，此为神归顶天，久之上升可以立待。

 

 

6. Now there are three signs of verification that can be tested. The first is that, when one has entered the state of meditation, it is like one`s spirit is in a valley. When one hears someone else talking, it is as if one hears it from about half a kilometer away, yet clearly. It sounds like an echo in a valley. One definitely hears it and yet it is not oneself that hears it. This is the state of the spirit in the valley. One can verify this at any time.

 

7. At times the following can be experienced: in the state of quietness, one`s vision becomes hazy, because of too much brightness. It`s like opening one’s eyes while being in a cloud and one doesn`t see one`s body any more. This is called: the empty chamber produces white (light). Inside and outside, are permeated with light. This is a very favorable sign.

 

8. The third experience is when in the state of quietness, the energy of the physical body becomes soft and pure like silk or jade. It feels as though one is floating upward and cannot stay sitting. This is the spirit returning to heaven above. Eventually, after a long time, one is able to ascend there.                

 

 

[Iskote]

3 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I have the impression that this portion of the text could be literal.

 

 

Hello Chesire Cat. I am personally very cautious about drawing definite conclusions about what is being said in such old writings, for the reasons that have been explained. However, I don't think it is being suggested here that in neigong or meditation one shouldn't ever 'see light', or that there are not various different types of phenomena which can occur at certain points in one's progression. Some systems may not put too much emphasis on such things or may even direct the student to pay no attention to them at all, and other systems may put more emphasis on such things. I think there may well be certain types of phenomena which one can experience at certain stages as they progress in a given system, which, within the context of that specific system, could be viewed as sign posts, but I also think it would probably not be advisable for a student to read too much into such things without the guidance of an experienced practitioner in that particular system. It is often warned that if one practices neidan or similar types of practices on their own, it is easy to make wrong assumptions and get on the wrong track. I think it is probably good practice to be very cautious about making assumptions. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Iskote

[awaken]

7 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

太乙金華宗旨 "The secret of the golden flower" 

 

There are -at least- three translations of three different versions of the text. 

The one from Thomas Cleary talks about internal lights and other meditation experiences described in this thread.

 

 

這本書和鍾呂傳道集一樣，都是以呂祖為名的假丹經，裡面有很多問題，要練到某一個程度的人，才能看出問題

 

以後有機會我再來談這本書的問題

 

This book is the same as the Zhonglu preaching collection. It is a fake elixir book in the name of Lu Zu. There are many problems in it. Only people who have practiced to a certain level can see the problems.

I'll come back to this book when I get a chance.

[awaken]

搬運法的練習者經常看不懂丹經，主要是因為方法的錯誤（把氣固定在下腹部）

所以搬運法練習者會將這些丹經文字當成『隱喻』，也就是隱藏的符號比喻

然後用氣感來解釋一切的符號

因此造成了牛頭不對馬嘴

每一家的搬運法有自己的解讀，雖然全部是錯的，但是他們會將這個稱為『密法』

並且用來販售大量的金錢

 

 

Practitioners of the transfer method often fail to understand the alchemy scriptures, mainly because of the wrong method (fixing the Qi in the lower abdomen).

Therefore, practitioners of the transfer method will regard these alchemy texts as "metaphors", that is, hidden symbolic metaphors

Then use the sense of qi to explain the symbols of everything

As a result, the bull's head is not the same as the horse's mouth

Each family's handling(transfer) method has its own interpretation, although all of them are wrong, but they will call this "secret method"

and used to sell a lot of money