Neidan, Dan Dao, Golden Elixir, Jade Pill, Neigong, Qigong - Which is right? Which is wrong?

[Iskote]

Endless debates over what is correct and what is not correct. 
Endless debates over what is better and what is worse. 
Every day fare in the kingdom of the ego. 

 

Up and down, east and west, hot and cold. 
Which is correct? Which is not correct? 
Which is better? Which is worse? 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

Who here on this Earth can say what immortality is? 
If anyone can live forever,  they must be very rare. 
No, it's about spiritual immortality, you say? 
What is spirit? 
What is spiritual immortality? 
This person says this. 
That person says that. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

What use is self-cultivation if it is not practical? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

What does it matter what this person or that person says about some particular cultivation method? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

I am just a human standing on a vast Earth, surrounded by a vast universe. 
I do not know anything about spiritual embryos and immortality. 
Nebulous clouds which no one can seem to agree upon. 
Beautiful images for the ego to picture and behold. 

 

In this world we must be practical. 
Will it help us through our work day? 
Will it give us better health? 
Will it give us a better state of mind? 
Will it help us to interact with others in a more positive way? 
Will it help ease the aches and pains as we grow older? 

 

What is ultimately real, and what is ultimately not real? 
What is ultimately of value, and what is ultimately not of value? 
I do not know. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 
 

[silent thunder]

Well said Ikote.  Thanks for sharing.

[doc benway]

Wonderful and vital questions Iskote.

I carry similar ones with me and they’ve helped guide me to the right path.

 

My conclusion is that there are no right and wrong answers, only answers that are right or wrong for me personally at any given moment. Similarly there is no absolute authority outside of the deeper, more intelligent aspect of myself that lies hidden under all of the doubts and questions most of the time. At time I do rely on authority figures but always with a degree of circumspection and caution.

[Eduardo]

5 hours ago, Iskote said:

Endless debates over what is correct and what is not correct. 
Endless debates over what is better and what is worse. 
Every day fare in the kingdom of the ego. 

 

Up and down, east and west, hot and cold. 
Which is correct? Which is not correct? 
Which is better? Which is worse? 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

Who here on this Earth can say what immortality is? 
If anyone can live forever,  they must be very rare. 
No, it's about spiritual immortality, you say? 
What is spirit? 
What is spiritual immortality? 
This person says this. 
That person says that. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

What use is self-cultivation if it is not practical? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

What does it matter what this person or that person says about some particular cultivation method? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

I am just a human standing on a vast Earth, surrounded by a vast universe. 
I do not know anything about spiritual embryos and immortality. 
Nebulous clouds which no one can seem to agree upon. 
Beautiful images for the ego to picture and behold. 

 

In this world we must be practical. 
Will it help us through our work day? 
Will it give us better health? 
Will it give us a better state of mind? 
Will it help us to interact with others in a more positive way? 
Will it help ease the aches and pains as we grow older? 

 

What is ultimately real, and what is ultimately not real? 
What is ultimately of value, and what is ultimately not of value? 
I do not know. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 
 

 

For a fool or a fanatic, everyone else is always wrong.

 

The measure of wisdom in man is to understand when we are wrong and when we are not.

 

As the ancient Uighurs used to say:

 

He who does not know and thinks he knows is a fool, flee from him.

 

He who does not know and knows that he does not know, he is sincere, instruct him.

 

He who knows and thinks he doesn't know is wrapped in illusion, guide him.

 

He who knows and knows that he knows is a worthy man, follow him.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Eduardo
Clarification

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

科學需要探索。

靈能波振蕩的目標是播下氣的種子，而不是不連續性。

我們自我實現，我們存在，我們重生。

我們必須召喚自己並賦予他人權力。

想像一下可能的開花結果。

這是即將發生的事情的徵兆。

我們被要求探索這個星球本身作為美麗和靈感之間的接口。
 

我們與其他屬靈兄弟姐妹的對話導致了超英雄意識的成熟。

人類沒有什麼可失去的。

我們正處於恩典和幻想的十字路口。

Shakti 將使我們與神話般的美麗保持一致。

正是在開花的時候，我們才重新煥發活力。

未來將是狂喜的無限揭幕。

可能很難知道從哪裡開始。

我們必須學會如何在嚮往中過空間生活。

從現在開始，當我們被夢境喚醒時，我們生命形式將前所未有地相信。

世界正在接近一個臨界點。

Science requires exploration.

The goal of psionic wave oscillations is to sow chi seeds, not discontinuities.

We self-actualize, we exist, we are born again.

We must call ourselves and empower others.

Imagine possible flowering results.

This is a symptom of what is to come.

We were asked to explore the planet itself as an interface between beauty and inspiration.

 

Our conversations with other spiritual brothers and sisters lead to the maturation of superhero consciousness.

Humanity has nothing to lose.

We are at the crossroads of grace and fantasy.

Shakti will bring us into line with fabulous beauty.

It is when we bloom that we are rejuvenated.

The future will be an infinite unveiling of ecstasy.

It can be difficult to know where to start.

We have to learn how to live a spatial life in yearning.

From now on, when we are awakened by dreams, our life forms will believe like never before.

The world is approaching a tipping point.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Pak_Satrio

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Pak_Satrio said:

科學需要探索。

靈能波振蕩的目標是播下氣的種子，而不是不連續性。

我們自我實現，我們存在，我們重生。

我們必須召喚自己並賦予他人權力。

想像一下可能的開花結果。

這是即將發生的事情的徵兆。

我們被要求探索這個星球本身作為美麗和靈感之間的接口。
 

我們與其他屬靈兄弟姐妹的對話導致了超英雄意識的成熟。

人類沒有什麼可失去的。

我們正處於恩典和幻想的十字路口。

Shakti 將使我們與神話般的美麗保持一致。

正是在開花的時候，我們才重新煥發活力。

未來將是狂喜的無限揭幕。

可能很難知道從哪裡開始。

我們必須學會如何在嚮往中過空間生活。

從現在開始，當我們被夢境喚醒時，我們生命形式將前所未有地相信。

世界正在接近一個臨界點。

Science requires exploration.

The goal of psionic wave oscillations is to sow chi seeds, not discontinuities.

We self-actualize, we exist, we are born again.

We must call ourselves and empower others.

Imagine possible flowering results.

This is a symptom of what is to come.

We were asked to explore the planet itself as an interface between beauty and inspiration.

 

Our conversations with other spiritual brothers and sisters lead to the maturation of superhero consciousness.

Humanity has nothing to lose.

We are at the crossroads of grace and fantasy.

Shakti will bring us into line with fabulous beauty.

It is when we bloom that we are rejuvenated.

The future will be an infinite unveiling of ecstasy.

It can be difficult to know where to start.

We have to learn how to live a spatial life in yearning.

From now on, when we are awakened by dreams, our life forms will believe like never before.

The world is approaching a tipping point.

 

 

 

"The soul is beyond self-righteous destiny". - Deepak Chopra

[awaken]

Most of people in qq dan dao group know qigong is not dan dao

QQ is in China

You can join QQ to ask Chinese to see what they said

So they won't treat Qigong as Dan Dao.

Qigong, martial arts and Dan Dao are very resemblance

Then often use the similar words

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by awaken

[Master Logray]

13 hours ago, Iskote said:

Endless debates over what is correct and what is not correct. 
Endless debates over what is better and what is worse. 
Every day fare in the kingdom of the ego. 

 

Will it help us to interact with others in a more positive way? 

 

 

Neidan, Dan Dao, Golden Elixir, Jade Pill, Neigong, Qigong -  are just different activities, or different names of the same or similar activities.  The question of correctness doesn't arise normally.   Could we say walking is correct but swimming is incorrect?  or diving is correct but water skiing is incorrect?  Which is better?  It depends on the person, on the situation.

 

Will it help us to interact with others in a more positive way?  - If you need a simple yes/no answer, the reply is no.  It won't help in the interaction with others.  For the higher stage, the followers of the path are expected to avoid all human interactions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[awaken]

論壇的互動方式本身就很容易導致這種情況，特別是熱門的論壇，擁有各種不同頻譜的人，要建立一個共識本來就很困難

 

除非是論壇的人都是屬於同一個頻譜，但是這只有以同一個老師為尊的情況下才有可能發生，如果每個人的想法都不同，本來就會有所辯論，這是很正常的

 

The way forums interact can easily lead to this situation, especially in popular forums, with people from various spectrums, it is inherently difficult to build a consensus

Unless the people in the forum belong to the same spectrum, but this can only happen if the same teacher is respected. If everyone has different ideas, there will be debates, which is normal

[Lairg]

14 hours ago, Iskote said:

Endless debates over what is correct and what is not correct. 

 

What is wrong with experiments and tests? 

 

Does one size fit all?

[awaken]

不過這裡的很多人有一種現象，就是把氣功當成修煉，這是很大的誤解

 

氣功是氣功，修煉是修煉，是兩種不同的領域

 

例如氣功只練氣而已

 

但是修煉不是只練氣，修煉還包含更深刻的內容

 

However, many people here have a phenomenon that they regard qigong as cultivation. This is a big misunderstanding.

Qigong is qigong, and cultivation is cultivation, and they are two different fields

For example, qigong is only qi practice

But cultivation is not just qi cultivation, cultivation also contains more profound content

 

但是有些教氣功的老師喜歡用修煉的名詞來形容氣功的現象，這樣就造成很大的誤解

 

事實上那些修煉的名詞有更高深的實踐，卻被誤導成低階的氣感

 

However, some qigong teachers like to use the term of cultivation to describe the phenomenon of qigong, which causes great misunderstanding

In fact, those terms of cultivation have higher practice, but they are misled into low-level sense of qi

[Iskote]

17 hours ago, Master Logray said:

It won't help in the interaction with others.  For the higher stage, the followers of the path are expected to avoid all human interactions.

 

 

Hello Master Logray.  Who said so?  That person must be kind of anti-social. 

[Iskote]

16 hours ago, Lairg said:

Does one size fit all?

 

Hello Lairg. I would think not, but, then again, I didn't suggest in any way that people should not try different things to find something that is suitable for them.  

 

 

[Iskote]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

However, many people here have a phenomenon that they regard qigong as cultivation. This is a big misunderstanding.

Qigong is qigong, and cultivation is cultivation, and they are two different fields

For example, qigong is only qi practice

But cultivation is not just qi cultivation, cultivation also contains more profound content

 

 

Hello Awaken. In English, 'self-cultivation' can be used fairly loosely just to mean improving oneself in various ways. Whether one is  doing some sort of practice which helps with their health, or state of mind,  or emotional state, or ability to be calm and relaxed, etc., it could still apply. At any rate, I was really referring to how as long as whatever a person is practicing seems to be proving beneficial to them, then, in my own view, that is good.    Realistically, I think most of us are not going to be merging with dao any time soon, although, as soon as I post that, one or more people may step forward and insist that I am completely wrong, and that if I just follow the 'right way' (their way) I will be an immortal or enlightened one in no time.  

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Iskote

[Iskote]

Some say there are at least as many ways to 'achieve dao' / 'become enlightened' as their are stars in the universe. I don't know. However, that is a lot of cultivation methods to consider all at once, if we want to compare them and debate them and find the very best method of them all. So, I took a small 2D slice of dao and drew it on a map. On the map I drew in the different cultivation methods which exist in that particular area of dao which is depicted by my map. My map is not quite to scale, but it is as accurate as I can get it. Can someone tell me which cultivation method illustrated on my map is the best method (or only correct method) for achieving dao? Which method is the worst? 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am not completely serious. 

If we take life and our self too seriously, we might get too many wrinkles. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Iskote

[Gerard]

They all are MICKEY MOUSE kind of practices.

 

If you want real results a hardcore, GOLIATH-like practice is what you need to adopt in order to:

 

1. Open

2. Release

3. Purge

4. Balance

5. Maintain 

6. Go with the flow

 

Internal Martial Arts fit the bill, especially two of them: 

 

1. Ba Gua Quan

2. Xingyi Quan

 

The former is the better of the two because of the:

 

1. Coiling

2. Twisting

3. Squeezing 

 

Forces it generates. Everything is undone. These forces are generated under "constant movement" and movement is now more important than ever before due to the current level of stagnation of society and the way of thinking, which is too rigid.

 

These practices need to be combined with a grounding method to make sure the 'beast within' is really tackled:

 

"The Asian squat."

 

Supplement these practices with seated (and lying flat on the ground, if needed) meditation and you are all set for good. 

 

Hard work, dedication and discipline will deliver the goods.

 

 

 

[Small Fur]

On 5/15/2022 at 9:44 AM, Iskote said:

 

Neidan, Dan Dao, Golden Elixir, Jade Pill, Neigong, Qigong - Which is right? Which is wrong?

 

Endless debates over what is correct and what is not correct. 
Endless debates over what is better and what is worse. 
Every day fare in the kingdom of the ego. 

 

Up and down, east and west, hot and cold. 
Which is correct? Which is not correct? 
Which is better? Which is worse? 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

Who here on this Earth can say what immortality is? 
If anyone can live forever,  they must be very rare. 
No, it's about spiritual immortality, you say? 
What is spirit? 
What is spiritual immortality? 
This person says this. 
That person says that. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

What use is self-cultivation if it is not practical? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

What does it matter what this person or that person says about some particular cultivation method? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

I am just a human standing on a vast Earth, surrounded by a vast universe. 
I do not know anything about spiritual embryos and immortality. 
Nebulous clouds which no one can seem to agree upon. 
Beautiful images for the ego to picture and behold. 

 

In this world we must be practical. 
Will it help us through our work day? 
Will it give us better health? 
Will it give us a better state of mind? 
Will it help us to interact with others in a more positive way? 
Will it help ease the aches and pains as we grow older? 

 

What is ultimately real, and what is ultimately not real? 
What is ultimately of value, and what is ultimately not of value? 
I do not know. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 
 

 

 

 

To be clear and honest, I will just say that these (re:  "Neidan, Dan Dao, Golden Elixir, Jade Pill, Neigong, Qigong - Which is right? Which is wrong?" ) are all different inter-related aspects of one's practical health, the personal path in cultivation, and the deepening of awareness along the spectrum towards a perfected Consciousness (here I use the term 'Perfected' as part of the Buddhist realization of enlightenment- which in the inner teachings includes the 'physical' in addition to the 'spiritual'); and that to realize each in their discrete value as part of a total formation to an entire path is of profound benefit. Therefore, it is best not to speak of them so casually as to be confounded lest the essence of their practical and immortal worth be lost to the one who misperceives and spreads that misperception to others.

The rightfulness of any experience or condition (this includes our choices and pratices) lies in the origin of our character (de 德 - virtue) as Consciousness in wisdom, because it is through this that the power of destinies are made and reborn (either as karma, or as the golden embryo). Therefore, the more pure your nature and insight, then the greater the alignment of your own spirit as Dao, and as such the more clarity and goodness from which you will sense, perceive, do and be. Therefore, it is less to do with method or conditions even if our processes contain methods and are resultant in conditions.

The state beyond debate, beyond question, and therefore beyond answer can be discovered by looking within. And although those who come to know this are indeed very rare, this does not mean that it is not readily available to be recognized within all of us free of time: it is always in this eternal transpiring moment known as Now.  Enlightenment is in part the ability to recognize omnipresence from a place of total freedom. Therefore, this recognition does not depend on time, it does not depend upon opinions, and it is transcendent of all notions of authority- including of the personal and what many often imagine to be the ultimate things.  This is because when you are the same the Emptiness from which all Source becomes, then 'you' are beyond all condition of naming and measure.*

How then do we live if the true ultimate being is beyond opinion, beyond beliefs and values? It is to let go of notion, to release the noise and business that clouds the senses and instead to dwell in the sacred. The sacred is accessed through silence, hidden within emptiness, and made visible by light (shen).

 

 

*Therefore, a true teacher does not teach you  things, but shows you yourself and those who are afraid to look inward will instead always seek 'things' outward- things to do, things to try, things to adhere to, things to become- the lesser teaching and learning is always about the rules. This also means, a person who walks the true path is one who is ready to look within, with courage and diligence to transform themselves with great care and respect to the rules, but not because of the rules. This form of transmission and transformation is inspired by the Yuan (Original) and that is why within truthful people you find the manifestation of enlightened harmony as the natural beauty of wei wu wei (effortless action).

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Small Fur

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 hours ago, Iskote said:

Some say there are at least as many ways to 'achieve dao' / 'become enlightened' as their are stars in the universe. I don't know. However, that is a lot of cultivation methods to consider all at once, if we want to compare them and debate them and find the very best method of them all. So, I took a small 2D slice of dao and drew it on a map. On the map I drew in the different cultivation methods which exist in that particular area of dao which is depicted by my map. My map is not quite to scale, but it is as accurate as I can get it. Can someone tell me which cultivation method illustrated on my map is the best method (or only correct method) for achieving dao? Which method is the worst? 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am not completely serious. 

If we take life and our self too seriously, we might get too many wrinkles. 

 

走在這條路上，就是與它合而為一。

我們作為四維上層建築存在。

今天，科學告訴我們，自然的本質是存在。

通過提煉，我們實現了自我。

生活是氣的豐富，也是我們的豐富。

這種生活無異於一場令人陶醉的變革性狂喜的量子轉變。

夢境中充斥著各種可能性的疊加。

 

雖然你可能沒有意識到，但你是不受限制的。

存在，向內看，發展自己。

如果您從未通過非本地互動體驗過這種願景，那麼您可能很難感受到這種願景。

想像一下調用可能是什麼。

Shiva 將讓我們獲得常年的存在。

正是在展開中，我們被引導。

你必須反對唯物主義。

沒有目標，就無法夢想。

教條誕生於知識被排斥的鴻溝。

我們再也不能忍受貪婪。

 

To walk on this path is to become one with it.

We exist as a four-dimensional superstructure.

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is existence.

Through refinement, we realize ourselves.

Life is the richness of Qi, and it is also our richness.

This life is nothing less than a quantum transformation of intoxicating transformative ecstasy.

Dreams are full of superpositions of various possibilities.

 

Although you may not realize it, you are unlimited.

Be present, look inward, develop yourself.

If you've never experienced this vision through non-native interactions, it may be hard for you to feel it.

Imagine what the call might be.

Shiva will give us a perennial presence.

It is in unfolding that we are guided.

You have to fight materialism.

Without goals, you cannot dream.

Dogma is born out of a divide in which knowledge is rejected.

We can no longer tolerate greed.

 

 

[Master Logray]

12 hours ago, Iskote said:

Hello Master Logray.  Who said so?  That person must be kind of anti-social. 

 

Everyone.   You must have seen drawings or movies about solitary Taoists (or other seekers) living in mountains or caves.   This is almost ultimate cessation of interaction with other humans, right?   Anyone on these paths must be prepared to be anti-social or "alienation from society".

 

Neidan, or similar paths, demands a certain mental state.  It must be clear, calm or "empty" or "still".   Then the goodies promised will manifest.  To achieve this state, lots of different trainings are necessary.  Most of them are done alone for long hours.  Looking at your navel in a dark room for hours, months, years and decades, imitating death, cannot be described as positively interacting with others.

 

These inner trainings have an external element - environmental factors.   It is not useful to wash your brain clean when dirty things like emotions intrude again and again at every moment.   So there are a lot of teachings on how to live a "proper and conducive" life.  But cutting ties is still the most useful and indispensable method, to ensure the minimum disturbances. 

 

When you are in quite advanced stage, even good human interactions consist of love, compassion, empathy are to be minimized as they also hinder progress or in some circumstances - harmful.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I have the impression that when Neidan is talked about, there's always more fiction than facts.

 

 

 

 

[awaken]

25 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

I have the impression that when Neidan is talked about, there's always more fiction than facts.

 

 

 

 

 

看起來你是務實主義者

 

我也是

 

looks like you're a pragmatist

me too

 

丹的名稱還有很多

紫金丹

大還丹

小環丹

 

不知道我有沒有記錯？

我記得你好像已經有烏肝了，這表示你已經有丹了

烏肝就是丹道當中的丹最初的型態

 

只是搬運法的邏輯完全不同，我說的不是搬運法的邏輯

Dan has many more names

Zijindan

Greater Hoan Dan

Xiaohuandan

I don't know if I remember correctly?

I remember that you seem to already have black liver, which means you already have Dan

Black Liver is the original form of Dan in Dan Dao

It's just that the logic of the transportation method is completely different, I'm not talking about the logic of the transportation method

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by awaken

[Cheshire Cat]

I don't understand daoist alchemy, its methods and its purpose. 

Nobody could even describe why would anyone practice it.... except from  those who talk about ethereal dreams of a spiritual immortality.

 

I can produce what's termed here Black Liver and various light visions, but  I think there's nothing special to it.

 

 

 

 

[awaken]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Cat said:

I don't understand daoist alchemy, its methods and its purpose. 

Nobody could even describe why would anyone practice it.... except from  those who talk about ethereal dreams of a spiritual immortality.

 

I can produce what's termed here Black Liver and various light visions, but  I think there's nothing special to it.

 

 

 

 

 

本來烏肝就沒什麼特別的

在我什麼都沒練之前，我就能看見烏肝

我詢問過一群青少年，大約有三分之一天生就能看見光

 

修行本來就是回歸自然，可能你看太多搬運法氣功大師的吹牛，所以對那些吹牛的東西不以為然吧

 

道家修煉的終極目標是解脫生死，就我個人而言，是探索宇宙奧秘

There's nothing special about black liver.

I can see black liver before I practice anything

I asked a group of teenagers that about a third of them were born with the ability to see light

Cultivation is originally a return to nature. Maybe you have seen too many bragging about the masters of transfer method and Qigong, so don’t take those bragging things seriously.

The ultimate goal of Taoist practice is to liberate life and death. As far as I am concerned, it is to explore the mysteries of the universe.

 

氣功大師很愛吹牛，最大的牛皮就是丹可以幫人治病，這絕對是謊言

Qigong masters love to brag. The biggest lie is that Dan can help people heal. This is definitely a lie

Edited May 18, 2022 by awaken

[damdao]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

 

氣功大師很愛吹牛，最大的牛皮就是丹可以幫人治病，這絕對是謊言

Qigong masters love to brag. The biggest lie is that Dan can help people heal. This is definitely a lie

 

Alchemical classics speak about healing and rejuvenation, so or the imposture is the root of neidan or something is missing in translation.

And by translation, I am not speaking about translation between Chinese and English but between the ancient methods and the contemporary approach.

Something is missing, otherwise it is not possible to deny the healing aspects of neidan methods. In fact, qigong and yangshen are derived from neidan theory and goals.

[Iliketurtles]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:44 PM, Iskote said:

Endless debates over what is correct and what is not correct. 
Endless debates over what is better and what is worse. 
Every day fare in the kingdom of the ego. 

 

Up and down, east and west, hot and cold. 
Which is correct? Which is not correct? 
Which is better? Which is worse? 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

Who here on this Earth can say what immortality is? 
If anyone can live forever,  they must be very rare. 
No, it's about spiritual immortality, you say? 
What is spirit? 
What is spiritual immortality? 
This person says this. 
That person says that. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 

 

What use is self-cultivation if it is not practical? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

What does it matter what this person or that person says about some particular cultivation method? 
If what a person practices has value and benefit for them, is it not good? 
If what a person practices improves their health and state of mind, is it not good? 

 

I am just a human standing on a vast Earth, surrounded by a vast universe. 
I do not know anything about spiritual embryos and immortality. 
Nebulous clouds which no one can seem to agree upon. 
Beautiful images for the ego to picture and behold. 

 

In this world we must be practical. 
Will it help us through our work day? 
Will it give us better health? 
Will it give us a better state of mind? 
Will it help us to interact with others in a more positive way? 
Will it help ease the aches and pains as we grow older? 

 

What is ultimately real, and what is ultimately not real? 
What is ultimately of value, and what is ultimately not of value? 
I do not know. 
Which all-knowing and all-seeing being can answer these questions with absolute authority? 
 

 

 

I think what makes the most sense is to look for practices which have good hard evidence behind them which show they can accomplish more than a placebo effect. 

 

Otherwise how do we know if we aren't just doing interpretive dance movements, and filling our heads full of weird metaphysics some delusional old guy made up?