origin(s) of Daoism / wu2 ji2

[Cobie]

wu2 ji2 starts at https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53664-origins-of-daoism/?do=findComment&comment=1000533   
 

 

The Way of Virtue 

 

 

道德 (DDJ) - The Way of Virtue

“The title "Daodejing", with its status as a classic, was only first applied from the reign of Emperor Jing of Han (157–141 BC) onward.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching

經 jing1 < classic, foundational text … > 

 

On 13/05/2022 at 6:24 PM, awaken said:

… Purity of mind is very important …

So character is very important

Without good virtue, there is no way to cultivate Dao

 

… So the original version of Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching

not putting Dao first

but put virtue first

Without virtue, there is no Dao

I agree. Imo Dao = morality. DDJ, it literally means The Way of Virtue.  

 

On 28/11/2022 at 4:58 AM, Taoist Texts said:

… it is a cultivation just not an energetic one as the modern marketers pretend it is but a moral one. The ruling class of the bronze age state had to improve both ts own moral attitude and that of its populace. It was done in order to survive as an indepencent state in the unending wars of the era. 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

Indo-Europeanen roots

 

Sinologist Victor Mair thinks religious ‘Daoism’ was a Chinese response to the imported Buddhism.

(Page 61)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350522856_Indo-Europeans_in_the_Ancient_Yellow_River_Valley 

 

On 16/06/2022 at 6:18 PM, awaken said:

… 但是佛教還不存在

 

Victor Mair was talking about “religious ‘Daoism’”.

Religious Daoism is often said to have begun in the Later Han period [i.e., the 1st–2nd centuries CE] 

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/daoism-religion/  
 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

The Nine Songs

 

屈原 九歌 Qū Yuán jiǔ gē - Qu Yuan's Nine Songs
 

The Nine Songs is a set of eleven poems from the anthology The Songs of Chu, which is traditionally attributed to Qu Yuan (about 343–278 B.C.). …  

[The Guodian Dao De Jing has been dated to the third or fourth century BCE. (DIO)]

 

Involving spirit journeys and the invocation of divine beings, one passage reads:

The singing begins softly to a slow, solemn measure:

Then, as pipes and zithers join in, the singing grows shriller.

Now the priestesses come, splendid in their gorgeous apparel,

And all the hall is filled with a penetrating fragrance.

The five sounds mingle in a rich harmony;

And the god is merry and takes his pleasure. 
From https://artmuseum.princeton.edu/collections/objects/35950 

 

… why the Jiu Ge ("Nine Songs") consists of eleven songs … ancient ideas about numbers and numbering, where by the use of a numeric term, an order of magnitude, estimation, or other symbolic qualities are meant, rather than a specific quantity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiu_Ge   

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

太一生水
 

 

太一

太 tai4 - greatest; senior (in generational hierarchy); remotest

一 yi1 - (number) one

as in 太一生水  

tai4 yi1 sheng1 shui3 - Great One gave birth to water

 

太一生水  is a recently unearthed document from the state of Chu
Characters and translations at: 
https://www.tao-te-king.org/taiyi_shengshui.htm 

 

太一 = 太乙 (the God of Chu) 

 

On 15/05/2022 at 8:16 AM, awaken said:

太乙 ＝ 太一

great one

 

太一是楚國的神

第一個被祭祀的神

請看屈原九歌

 

Taiyi is the god of Chu

The first god to be worshipped

Please see Qu Yuan's Nine Songs …

 

For me 太乙 is the same as 道： 萬物 之母 

Characters change meaning over time, lots of politics involved.   
 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

The Yellow Court Classic 

The Yellow Court Classic ("Huang Ting Jing", 黄庭经), a Chinese Taoist meditation text, was received from the unknown source (according to a lore, as a Heavenly Scripture from the Highest Purity Realm) by Lady  Wei Huacun, one of the founders of Highest Purity Tradition (Shangqing, 上清), in the 288 CE. The first reference to the text appears in the archives of the famous alchemist and collector of Taoist texts, Ge Hong (葛洪) in the 4th century CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Court_Classic   
 

“God in the body”
黃庭內景經 … 多神崇拜 … Huang Ting's interior scene scriptures … the worship of many gods.

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53618-the-reason-why-a-person-who-only-has-qi-in-his-lower-abdomen-cant-understand the-huang-tingjing/?do=findComment&comment=983174  
 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Cobie

[awaken]

On 2022/5/18 at 1:09 AM, Cobie said:

Where did Daoism come from?

 

 

 

Xia Dynasty
= Ancient Egypt

 

 

[awaken]

On 2022/5/18 at 1:10 AM, Cobie said:

Sinologist Victor Mair thinks religious ‘Daoism’ was a Chinese response to the imported Buddhism.

(Page 61)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350522856_Indo-Europeans_in_the_Ancient_Yellow_River_Valley 

 

 

 

老子和佛陀是同時代的人

在老子之前，道就已經存在了

但是佛教還不存在

 

Lao Tzu and Buddha are contemporaries

Tao existed before Lao Tzu

But Buddhism doesn't exist yet

[awaken]

On 2022/5/22 at 5:26 AM, Cobie said:

An ancient link between Tibet and Siberia …

 

 

 

西藏的佛教是因為那爛陀寺被西方人燒光，所以裡面的僧人只好逃難到西藏

同時把佛教也傳入西藏

 

Buddhism in Tibet is because the Nalanda Monastery was burned down by Westerners, so the monks inside had to flee to Tibet.

At the same time, Buddhism was also introduced to Tibet

[awaken]

On 2022/5/23 at 3:11 PM, Cobie said:

黃庭內景經 … 多神崇拜 … Huang Ting's interior scene scriptures … the worship of many gods.
 

“God in the body”

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53618-the-reason-why-a-person-who-only-has-qi-in-his-lower-abdomen-cant-understand the-huang-tingjing/?do=findComment&comment=983174

 

 

黃庭內景經的多神崇拜是魏華存加進去的

黃庭外景經應該是比較原始的黃庭經，並沒有多神崇拜

 

The polytheistic worship of Huang Ting Nei Jingjing was added by Wei Huacun

Huang Ting Wuai Jing Jing should be a relatively primitive Huang Ting Jing, and there is no polytheistic worship

[awaken]

On 2022/5/23 at 3:31 PM, Cobie said:

The Yellow Court Classic ("Huang Ting Jing", 黄庭经), a Chinese Taoist meditation text, was received from the unknown source (according to a lore, as a Heavenly Scripture from the Highest Purity Realm) by Lady  Wei Huacun, one of the founders of Highest Purity Tradition (Shangqing, 上清), in the 288 CE. The first reference to the text appears in the archives of the famous alchemist and collector of Taoist texts, Ge Hong (葛洪) in the 4th century CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Court_Classic 

 

 

 

我最近已經不太想去管這裡的搬運法練習者了

 

我想把我對黃庭經的想法練出來

 

例如紅色真人之後是否是綠色真人？

 

最初的真人是在跳舞，後面的真人是否真的是坐姿？

 

這是我想知道的答案

 

I don't really want to care about the transfer practitioners here lately.

I want to experiment my thoughts on Huang Tingjing

For example, is the red real person followed by the green ?

The original real person is dancing, is the real person in the back really sitting?

This is the answer I want to know

 

還有另外兩個我想知道的

是否一個真人會長出其他八個真人？

真人練到最後是否真的可以把自己的肉身變成彩虹光？

真人練到最後是否可以離開內景，成為一個獨立行動的靈體？

 

There are two more I want to know

Can one real person grow out of eight other real people?

Can a real person really turn his body into a rainbow light at the end of his training?

Can a real person leave the interior scene and become a spirit body that acts independently?

 

 

我想知道這些問題的答案，因為我覺得與其浪費時間跟一群搬運法奮戰，不如自己去做實驗，看看到底答案是什麼

 

I want to know the answers to these questions because I feel like instead of wasting my time fighting a bunch of transfer method trainer, I'd better do an experiment myself and see what the answer is

Edited June 16, 2022 by awaken

[Cobie]

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Edited November 28, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

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Edited November 28, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

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Edited November 28, 2022 by Cobie

[awaken]

13 hours ago, Cobie said:

Re

 

and 

 

Victor Mair was talking about “religious ‘Daoism’”.

Religious Daoism is often said to have begun in the Later Han period [i.e., the 1st–2nd centuries CE] 

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/daoism-religion/

 

 

 

即使是宗教，在楚國就已經存在了

我們可以從屈原的九歌看到當時祭祀的歌曲

道教很早就存在了

 

但是跟搬運法代替了丹道修煉一樣

五斗米教也代替了道教

 

所以那個人應該說的是五斗米教

而真正的道教，早在夏朝就存在了

 

Even religion already existed in Chu State

We can see the sacrifice songs from Qu Yuan's Nine Songs

Taoism has existed for a long time

But it's the same as the transfer method replaced Alchemy.

Wudou Mijiao also replaced Taoism

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Five_Pecks_of_Rice

 

 

So what that person should say is the way of five buckets of rice

And true Taoism existed as early as the Xia Dynasty

[awaken]

搬運法代替了道家修煉

 

五斗米教代替了古代道教的祭祀

 

在春秋戰國時代，根據屈原的九歌，祭祀的應該是九個神，還有因戰爭而死的祖先靈魂

 

而九個神是有意義的，這個部分我雖然還沒練到這個地方，但是我認為九個神應該是和黃庭經所說的有關

 

在大日經當中也能看到對真人演化的描述

 

因此在古代的祭祀是和道家修煉結合在一起的，所祭祀的神，是修煉當中出現的真人

 

但是五斗米教產生之後，這種傳統的祭祀就消失了

 

在中國大陸還可以聽說有女媧神的祭祀，但是在五斗米教已經完全消失了

 

The transfer method replaces Taoist cultivation

Five Dou Rice Religion replaced the sacrifice of ancient Taoism

In the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period, according to Qu Yuan's Nine Songs, the sacrifices should be nine gods, as well as the souls of ancestors who died in wars

 

And the nine gods are meaningful. Although I haven't reached this part yet, I think the nine gods should be related to what Huang Tingjing said.

The description of the evolution of real person can also be seen in the Great Nikkei

 

Therefore, in ancient times, sacrifices were combined with Taoist cultivation, and the gods sacrificed were real person who appeared in cultivation.

 

But after the Five Dou Rice Religion came into being, this traditional sacrifice disappeared.

In mainland China, you can still hear about the sacrifice of the goddess Nuwa, but in Wudou Mijiao, it has completely disappeared.

[awaken]

五斗米教代替了古代的道教之後，也跟搬運法一樣，有了傳承，有了各式各樣的儀式，有了出家人等等

 

五斗米教和搬運法也曾經競爭過，但是後來有些五斗米教和搬運法結合在一起了

 

近代中國因為氣功興盛，宗教受到管制，因此就把搬運法抽離出來

 

所以我們可以看到有些氣功只有很單純的動作，而有些氣功則是談論到玄關這些丹道名詞了

 

所以當我們在看道家修煉和道教的時候，我們心裡都要知道，裡面有百分之九十，被加上了假資料在裡面

 

原始資料只能從古代經典去尋找了

 

我們心裡也要對傳承產生高度戒心，因為這些傳承代表了宗教利益，並非代表道的傳承

 

After the Five Dou Rice Religion replaced the ancient Taoism, just like the transfer method, there was inheritance, various ceremonies, and monks, etc.

The five-dou-mi Religion and the transfer method also competed, but later some five-dou-mi Religion and the transfer method were combined.

In modern China, because qigong was prosperous and religion was regulated, the method of transfer was withdrawn.

Therefore, we can see that some qigongs only have very simple movements, while some qigongs talk about the elixir and other terms such as Xuan guan.

Therefore, when we are watching Taoist cultivation and Taoism, we must know in our hearts that 90% of them have been added with false information.

 

The original materials can only be found from ancient classics

We also have to be highly wary of the lineages in our hearts, because these lineages represent religious interests, not the lineage of the Dao.

Edited June 17, 2022 by awaken

[Cobie]

~~~<>~~~
Bhuddaoism

~~~<>~~~

 

Buddhism and Daoism have co-influenced each other over hundreds of years in China. Although Buddha lived from 563 B.C. to 483 B.C., the founder of Daoism, Lao-Tzu was thought to live in the 6th century BCE. Buddhism and Daoism didn’t encounter each other until Buddhism entered China around the third century BCE — and since that time (arguably) they have influenced each other as both flourished across China.

https://buddhaweekly.com/dharma-and-the-tao-how-buddhism-and-daoism-have-influenced-each-other-why-zen-and-taoism-can-be-compliementary/  

 

Buddhism reached China in the early centuries of the Common Era, but it did not have a major impact on Chinese religion and society until the early 5th century, when terminology was standardized because of the translation efforts of Kumārajīva (b. 344–d. 413) and his team. The resulting vast corpus of Buddhist literature inspired the expansion of the religion in all dimensions, creating a vivid Buddhist culture in philosophy, ritual, meditation, and religious organization.
 

This culture had a massive impact on Daoism, beginning with the school of Numinous Treasure (Lingbao), that completely transformed the religion and has pervaded it ever since.
 

The entire institution of monasticism, all Daoist religious sculpture, concepts of hell and reincarnation, and ethical rules and precepts, as well as forms of insight meditation, sacred hand gestures, repentance rituals, and philosophical concepts—including cosmology and psychology—go back to Buddhist influence.

 

At the same time, certain Buddhist notions also received a strong impact from Daoism. Best known among them are the understanding of the ruler as prophesied savior and the practice of oblivion and some of its concomitant concepts.

https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195393521/obo-9780195393521-0220.xml

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

41 minutes ago, Creation said:

… when Buddhist monks were persecuted and forced to have wives and jobs. …

 

Religious persecution by a Taoist emperor. 

 

“Emperor Wuzong of Tang (814–846) indulged in indiscriminate religious persecution, solving a financial crisis by seizing the property of Buddhist monasteries. Buddhism had developed into a major religious force in China during the Tang period, and its monasteries had tax-exempt status. Wuzong closed many Buddhist shrines, confiscated their property, and sent the monks and nuns home to lay life. Apart from economic reasons, Wuzong's motivation was also philosophical or ideological. As a zealous Taoist, he considered Buddhism a foreign religion that was harmful to Chinese society. He went after other foreign religions as well, all but eradicating Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism in China, and his persecution of the growing Nestorian Christian churches sent Chinese Christianity into a decline from which it never recovered.”

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Buddhists   
 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

esoteric Daoism

 

In ‘esoteric’ Daoism, the DDJ is considered a manual for ‘alchemy’, and assumed to contain lots of hidden clues. The literal meaning of the characters in the text is in this view often not what it’s about, so the dictionary definition is irrelevant to them.  
 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

Chu - Daoism

Qin - Legalism

Han - Buddhism/Confucianism  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Gate_Taoism  

 

~~~
the end of the Han Dynasty
 

 In AD 184, plague spread throughout China. Thousands of people were cured after drinking Zhang's ash water. He sent 8 major missionaries and his followers covered around 2/3 of China. They then became the major army of the Yellow Turban Rebellion. This rebellion led to the end of the Han Dynasty. “

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

Timeline of Chinese dynasties 

http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/timelines/china_timeline.htm 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Cobie

[Lairg]

My own view of the origin of Daoism depends upon the Hindu concept of the Mahapralaya.

 

I suspect that Daoism carries over the spiritual practices of the previous solar system when our god was a god of intelligence and energy.

 

Thus Daoism is not suited to all humans

 

https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/mahapralaya

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Lairg

[Cobie]

7 hours ago, Lairg said:

My own view of the origin of Daoism depends upon the Hindu concept of the Mahapralaya.

https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/mahapralaya 

 

Interesting.

 

~~~

re void 

 

(I read in your link that) in Mahapralaya the ‘void’ is total darkness. 

“.. there is pitch darkness …” 

 

In Daoism the ‘void’ is total light only.

無極 wu2 ji2 - “no ridgepole“ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuji_(philosophy)

 

~~~
re both have undivided/divided 

 

(From your link) in Mahapralaya (in the void), “The day and the night are not demarcated.”

Now there is “day and night”

 

In Daoism, 無極 wu2 ji2 - no ridgepole 

Now there is 太極 tai4 ji2 - big ridgepole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiji_(philosophy)

 

Quote

I suspect that Daoism carries over the spiritual practices of the previous solar system when our god was a god of intelligence and energy.

 

Interesting. If I understand well, “intelligence and energy” preceding ‘love’. 

For some life goes the other way round, and then round again. 

 

Quote

Thus Daoism is not suited to all humans

 

I agree.   
 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Cobie

[Master Logray]

13 minutes ago, Cobie said:

In Daoism, 無極 wu2 ji2 - no ridgepole 

Now there is 太極 tai4 ji2 - big ridgepole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiji_(philosophy)

 

 

It is my first encounter this word ridgepole.    Some interpret Wuji as full of potential of all possibilities.

[Cobie]

.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Cobie