awaken Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shadow_self said: Cinnabar is a reference to the Original Divine Spirit, whereas Mercury is a reference to the Human Intellectual Mind Initially the Mercury is extracted from the Cinnabar as a byproduct of existence and the "fall" from spiritual existence The location of the Mercury is within the heart mind You extract the mercury from here and return it to the Cinnabar field That is sent down into the "Cauldron" of the Lower Dan Tien with the Lead (which is related to Jing) that rises up from below 不是這樣的 not this way 你這樣講就完全不對了，你還是停留在氣感的狀態當中 完全不對了 不管氣往哪邊提，都不對 只要是氣感，都不對 錯得離譜 你知道嗎？沒練到的人，怎麼講也是聽不懂的 開心竅不是下丹田的氣往上提 百分之百的錯 氣要先精緻化成烏肝 烏肝之後要能進入恍惚 恍惚中有象 這個象才是開啟心竅的徵兆 道德經都寫得很清楚 怎麼大家還是往氣感上面去鑽呢？ 真是無奈 不要用想像去追逐功態 一點用都沒有 惚兮恍兮，其中有象；恍兮惚兮，其中有物。 不管是兔髓，還是中丹田，還是心竅 都是從恍惚演化出來的 不要再從氣感去鑽了 絕對不是氣往上提到中丹田 不要再這樣講了 這樣是扭曲得太過分了 中丹田的開啟，絕對不是下丹田的氣往上提 中丹田的開啟，絕對不是下丹田的氣往上提 中丹田的開啟，絕對不是下丹田的氣往上提 The opening of the middle dantian is definitely not the upward movement of the lower dantian. Edited May 26, 2022 by awaken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Earl Grey Posted May 26, 2022 Chakras and dantians aren't the same thing. Too common of an error and a great misunderstanding of both concepts and systems. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted May 26, 2022 The chakras and the dantian are not the same thing, but they are closely connected to each other. A direct equivalent to the chakras can be found in the "gates of the body" of qigong and TCM, however. These are major Xuéwèi (穴位). https://sheltonqigong.com/seven-gates-of-the-body-according-to-chinese-medicine/ The Indian and the Chinese system may not seem like direct equivalents at first, but in fact they are. Even the Indian system recognizes many more chakras than just the seven major ones. The only real difference is in regards to which energy centers are considered to be the most important ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 搬運法對丹田的解釋是錯誤的 用錯誤的丹田來對應脈輪 當然會得到錯誤的結論 搬運法對丹田的理解就是氣所在的地方 對脈輪的理解是牽涉到光 因為中脈七輪的圖形很明顯的就是把七彩光都畫出來了 但是在真正的丹道裡面 烏肝確實是七彩的 跟中脈七輪是完全相同的系統 只有在搬運法錯誤的認知當中 才會產生不同於脈輪的認知結論 所以我希望各位在理解丹田這個概念的時候 要知道搬運法有很大的程度扭曲了丹道 並不能代表真正的丹道 真正的丹道 是魂魄修煉 是烏肝兔髓的修煉 並非是氣感的運行 The interpretation of dantian by the transfer method is wrong Using the wrong dantian to correspond to the chakra Of course wrong conclusions The transport method's understanding of dantian is where the qi is located The understanding of chakras involves light Because the graphic of the seven chakras of the central channel is obviously drawn out of the colorful light. But in the real Dan Dao Black liver is indeed colorful It is the exact same system as the seven chakras of the central chakra Only in the misunderstanding of the transfer method will produce cognitive conclusions that are different from the chakras So I hope that when you understand the concept of dantian You must know that the transport method has distorted the way of Dan to a great extent. does not represent the real Dan Dao real dando is Hun-Pao training It is the cultivation of black liver and rabbit marrow It's not a Qi movement 中脈七輪也很明確的把幾何圖形都畫出來 同樣的丹道當中的陽生二階段蓮花就是幾何圖形 當然更高深的真人演化 這個我就不說了 因為這裡太多搬運法的練習者 連最基本的烏肝光都練不出來 講太深沒用 The seven chakras of the central channel are also very clear to draw the geometric figures. In the same way, the lotus flower in the second stage of Yang Sheng is a geometric figure Of course the deeper mortal evolution I won't say this Because there are too many practitioners of the transfer method Can't even reach the most basic black liver light Talking too deep is useless 中醫所講的穴位是用來插針治病的 跟修煉當中所產生的類似電磁場的光不是一回事 一個是病態打通氣脈 一個是光磁場 完全不同 不可類推 Acupuncture points in traditional Chinese medicine are used for acupuncture treatment. It’s not the same thing as the electromagnetic field-like light generated during cultivation. One is morbid acupuncture point ventilation One is the optical magnetic field completely different no analogy 如果你一定要用中醫的角度來講修煉 只有黃帝內經裡面的一段算得上 肝藏魂，肺藏魄，心藏神，脾藏意，腎藏志 而中脈七輪的七彩光，就是肝藏魂的範圍 這已經不是經脈堵塞的針灸可以講的 完全不同範圍的東西 不可相提並論 If you must use the perspective of Chinese medicine to speak of cultivation Only a passage in the Yellow Emperor's Internal Classic can be considered The liver stores Hun, the lungs store Pou, the heart stores Shen the spleen stores attention, and the kidney stores the will And the colorful light of the seven chakras of the central channel is the scope of which liver stores Hun This is no longer the case of acupuncture with blocked meridians. something completely different incomparable 五臟所藏的神魂魄 和五邪入侵，陽氣虛衰等情況不是同一內容 治療邪氣採用經絡療法 但是修煉屬於神魂魄領域 完全不同 不可混為一談 The Hun-Pau-Shen hidden in the five internal organs It is not the same content as the invasion of five evils, the deficiency of yang qi, etc. Treating Evil Qi with Meridian Therapy But cultivation belongs to the realm of Shen-Hun_Pau completely different should not be confused Edited May 26, 2022 by awaken 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, awaken said: It is the exact same system as the seven chakras of the central chakra Only in the misunderstanding of the transfer method will produce cognitive conclusions that are different from the chakras Hi Awaken, I doubt that the TCM system is essentially different from what is used in Neidan, since both are dealing with the guidance of qi. However, your statement I quoted above is interesting. Could you please explain in detail what the seven equivalents to the chakras in Dan Dao are? I understand that these things come down to practice and personal experience, after all. But theoretical discussion of the underlying concepts has its place and is useful as well. Thanks in advance. Edited May 26, 2022 by Michael Sternbach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted May 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Michael Sternbach said: Hi Awaken, I doubt that the TCM system is essentially different from what is used in Neidan, since both are dealing with the guidance if qi. However, your statement I quoted above is interesting. Could you please explain in detail what the seven equivalents to the chakras in Dan Dao are? I understand that these things come down to practice and personal experience, after all. But theoretical discussion of the underlying concepts has its place and is useful as well. Thanks in advance. 中醫當然不是只有處理氣 丹道當然也不是只有處理氣 我不知道你為什麼會認為中醫和丹道都是只有處理氣 可能太多氣功假大師亂講導致你的訊息來源有問題 丹道沒有七個脈輪 只有提到三個丹田 但是在顏色上 黃庭經有提到紫色 烏肝本身就提到藍色，綠色 『青』這個字本身就包含藍色綠色兩色 要了解中醫系統，你要讀黃帝內經 要了解丹道系統，你要讀悟真篇 這兩本是教科書等級的書 讀了這兩本書才不會被那一大堆的氣功假大師誤導 Of course, Chinese medicine does not only deal with qi Of course, Dan Dao is not only dealing with Qi I don't know why you think that both Chinese medicine and Dan Dao only deal with qi There may be too many false qigong masters talking nonsense, causing problems with your source of information Dando does not have seven chakras Only three dantians are mentioned but in color Huang Tingjing mentioned purple Black liver itself mentions blue, green The word "cyan" itself contains two colors of blue and green. To understand the TCM system, you have to read the Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine To understand the alchemy system, you have to read Wu Zen Pian These two are textbook grade books After reading these two books, then you won't be misled by a lot of fake qigong masters 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted May 26, 2022 3 hours ago, awaken said: not like this not this way It's completely wrong for you to say this, you are still stuck in the state of qi feeling totally wrong No matter where the anger goes, it's not right As long as it's anger, it's not right terribly wrong do you know? People who haven't practiced can't understand how to say it. Happiness is not the lowering of the dantian's anger 100 percent wrong Qi must first be refined into black liver To be able to enter a trance after black liver in a trance This sign is a sign of enlightenment The Tao Te Ching is clearly written Why are you still trying to drill into the sense of qi? really helpless Don't use imagination to chase power no use at all In a trance, there is an image in it ; in a trance, there is something in it. Whether it is rabbit marrow, middle dantian, or heart orifice Evolved from trance Don't drill from the breath anymore It's definitely not an angry mention of the middle dantian don't talk like that anymore This is too distorted The opening of the middle dantian is definitely not the upward movement of the lower dantian. The opening of the middle dantian is definitely not the upward movement of the lower dantian. The opening of the middle dantian is definitely not the upward movement of the lower dantian. The opening of the middle dantian is definitely not the upward movement of the lower dantian. I have absolutely no idea why your words are posted like that...but there is really nothing distorted about what I said. In Neidan the LDT is the crucible where the work is done at these stages. Perhaps another thread for that discussion? The chakras (which is what this thread is about) are clearly labelled in Neidan...Im not sure what the need for obscure terms like black rabbit or black liver? Why not just say clearly what you are talking about Here are the seven chakras, according to alchemical teachings (Named as the seven wheels) Chun Zhen Lun (純真輪) – Wheel of Genuine Truth Zhen Zhi Lun (真知輪) – Wheel of Genuine Knowledge Zheng Dao Lun (正道輪) – Wheel of the Upright Path Ren Ai Lun (仁愛輪) – Wheel of Benevolent Love Da Tong Lun (大同輪) – Wheel of Great Harmony Kuan Shu Lun (寬恕輪) – Wheel of Expressive Compassion Zi Jue Lun (自覺輪) – Wheel of Self Awakening They are also known as the seven fires, or else the seven cauldrons. There is no need for misunderstanding here...they are small points along the spinal branch of the chong mai 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 我知道你不懂，所以你才會說出中丹田是由下丹田的氣往上拉提而開啟的 烏肝兔髓是什麼 我已經說過很多次了 也說得非常具體 也貼了至少二十篇以上的文章講烏肝兔髓 烏肝兔髓是悟真篇，參同契，呂祖使用的丹道名詞 屬於標準的丹道現象名詞 我比較想問的是，我在這裡貼了那麼多篇關於烏肝兔髓的文章 你該不會都沒看過吧？ I know you don't understand, that's why you say that the middle dantian is opened by the qi of the lower dantian being lifted upwards What is black liver and rabbit marrow I've said it many times also very specific Also posted at least 20 articles about black liver and rabbit marrow Black Liver Rabbit Marrow is the alchemy term used by Wuzhen, Shentongqi, and Lu Zu. Belonging to the standard noun of Dan Dao phenomenon What I want to ask is that I have posted so many articles here about black liver and rabbit marrow You haven't seen them, right? 我不知道你說的那些脈輪的來源是什麼？ 是某一個宗教嗎？ 丹道裡面是沒有這種脈輪的說法的 I don't know what the source of those chakras you're talking about? Is it a certain new religion? There is no such chakra names in Dan Dao. 烏肝兔髓是每一個練丹道的人都應該要懂的專有名詞 因為丹道就是專門練這個 丹道不是氣功 Black Liver and Rabbit Marrow are a professional nouns that every alchemist should know Because Dan Dao is specially trained for this Dan Dao is not Qigong Dan Dao is Chinese alchemy 我對西洋煉金術不懂 也不知道哪一本書講西洋鍊金術 I don't know Western alchemy I don't know which book talks about Western alchemy 不管如何，中丹田絕對不是因為下腹部的氣往上拉提到胸口所開啟的 所有真正的中國修煉經典都不會承認這種說法 In any case, the middle dantian is definitely not opened because the qi in the lower abdomen is pulled up to the chest. All genuine Chinese practice scriptures would not admit this statement 包含道德經，悟真篇，參同契等等 Including Tao Te Ching, Wu Zen Pian, Cantonqi, etc. 你會覺得你沒有歪曲 那是因為你接收的訊息來源就已經歪曲了 那些氣功假大師給你的訊息就是錯的 You will feel like you are not distorted That's because the source of the information you receive has been distorted The messages given to you by those fake qigong masters are wrong 我覺得很奇怪的是，當我告訴你，中丹田不是這樣開啟的，難道你一點都不想知道真正的中丹田如何開啟？ 你真的相信下腹部的氣往上拉就能開啟中丹田？ I feel it very strange that when I tell you that the middle dantian is not opened like this, don't you want to know how the real middle dantian is opened at all? Do you really believe that the qi in the lower abdomen can be pulled up to open the middle dantian? 我知道西方人要學丹道很辛苦 因為看不懂中文 也看不懂文言文 只能看別人翻譯的 只能看別人解釋的第二手資料 但是我認為這不應該是成為誤解丹道的藉口 如果真心想要知道怎麼回事 都可以找得到經典的翻譯 只要看了經典的翻譯 就能知道這些氣功大師在吹牛 下丹田的氣往上拉是不可能開啟中丹田的 I know it's very hard for westerners to learn alchemy because you don't understand Chinese you can't understand classical Chinese, too Can only see other people's translation Can only see second-hand information explained by others But I don't think this should be an excuse to misunderstand Dan Dao If you really want to know what's going on you can find many classic translations Just read the classic translations You can know that these qigong masters are bragging It is impossible to open the middle dantian when the Qi of the lower dantian is pulled upward to the chest. 在丹道裡面 氣分成兩種 一種就是搬運法的練出來的氣 另外一種只能是虛空當中出現的氣 這種虛空當中出現的氣，必定伴隨相關的內景 不可能以氣的型態單獨出現 相關的內景很多，幾何，蓮花，飛雪，圓月，真人等等 兩種不可混在一起 in dando Ｑi is divided into two One is the qi that is practiced in the transportation method. The other is the Qi that can only appear in the Emptiness The qi that appears in the Emptiness must be accompanied by a related interior scene. Impossible to appear alone in the form of Qi There are many related interior scenes, geometry, lotus, flying snow, full moon, mortal, etc. The two should not be mixed to one But there are a lot of qigong masters did that They mixed these two They don't know what's different between these two Edited May 26, 2022 by awaken 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted May 26, 2022 21 minutes ago, awaken said: 我知道你不懂，所以你才會說出中丹田是由下丹田的氣往上拉提而開啟的 烏肝兔髓是什麼 我已經說過很多次了 也說得非常具體 也貼了至少二十篇以上的文章講烏肝兔髓 烏肝兔髓是悟真篇，參同契，呂祖使用的丹道名詞 屬於標準的丹道現象名詞 我比較想問的是，我在這裡貼了那麼多篇關於烏肝兔髓的文章 你該不會都沒看過吧？ I know you don't understand, that's why you say that the middle dantian is opened by the qi of the lower dantian being lifted upwards What is black liver and rabbit marrow I've said it many times also very specific Also posted at least 20 articles about black liver and rabbit marrow Black Liver Rabbit Marrow is the alchemy term used by Wuzhen, Shentongqi, and Lu Zu. Belonging to the standard noun of Dan Dao phenomenon What I want to ask is that I have posted so many articles here about black liver and rabbit marrow You haven't seen them, right? 我不知道你說的那些脈輪的來源是什麼？ 是某一個宗教嗎？ 丹道裡面是沒有這種脈輪的說法的 I don't know what the source of those chakras you're talking about? Is it a certain new religion? There is no such chakra names in Dan Dao. 烏肝兔髓是每一個練丹道的人都應該要懂的專有名詞 因為丹道就是專門練這個 丹道不是氣功 Black Liver and Rabbit Marrow are a professional nouns that every alchemist should know Because Dan Dao is specially trained for this Dan Dao is not Qigong Dan Dao is Chinese alchemy 我對西洋煉金術不懂 也不知道哪一本書講西洋鍊金術 I don't know Western alchemy I don't know which book talks about Western alchemy 不管如何，中丹田絕對不是因為下腹部的氣往上拉提到胸口所開啟的 所有真正的中國修煉經典都不會承認這種說法 In any case, the middle dantian is definitely not opened because the qi in the lower abdomen is pulled up to the chest. All genuine Chinese practice scriptures would not admit this statement 包含道德經，悟真篇，參同契等等 Including Tao Te Ching, Wu Zen Pian, Cantonqi, etc. 你會覺得你沒有歪曲 那是因為你接收的訊息來源就已經歪曲了 那些氣功假大師給你的訊息就是錯的 You will feel like you are not distorted That's because the source of the information you receive has been distorted The messages given to you by those fake qigong masters are wrong 我覺得很奇怪的是，當我告訴你，中丹田不是這樣開啟的，難道你一點都不想知道真正的中丹田如何開啟？ 你真的相信下腹部的氣往上拉就能開啟中丹田？ I feel it very strange that when I tell you that the middle dantian is not opened like this, don't you want to know how the real middle dantian is opened at all? Do you really believe that the qi in the lower abdomen can be pulled up to open the middle dantian? 我知道西方人要學丹道很辛苦 因為看不懂中文 也看不懂文言文 只能看別人翻譯的 只能看別人解釋的第二手資料 但是我認為這不應該是成為誤解丹道的藉口 如果真心想要知道怎麼回事 都可以找得到經典的翻譯 只要看了經典的翻譯 就能知道這些氣功大師在吹牛 下丹田的氣往上拉是不可能開啟中丹田的 I know it's very hard for westerners to learn alchemy because you don't understand Chinese you can't understand classical Chinese, too Can only see other people's translation Can only see second-hand information explained by others But I don't think this should be an excuse to misunderstand Dan Dao If you really want to know what's going on you can find many classic translations Just read the classic translations You can know that these qigong masters are bragging It is impossible to open the middle dantian when the Qi of the lower dantian is pulled upward to the chest. You did not read what I said correctly...I never mentioned anything about the qi of the lower dan tien being pulled upward towards the chest...not at all...I think you need to review what I said carefully. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Shadow_self said: Cinnabar is a reference to the Original Divine Spirit, whereas Mercury is a reference to the Human Intellectual Mind Initially the Mercury is extracted from the Cinnabar as a byproduct of existence and the "fall" from spiritual existence The location of the Mercury is within the heart mind You extract the mercury from here and return it to the Cinnabar field That is sent down into the "Cauldron" of the Lower Dan Tien with the Lead (which is related to Jing) that rises up from below That is sent down into the "Cauldron" of the Lower Dan Tien with the Lead (which is related to Jing) that rises up from below 這句話的意思是什麼？ What does this sentence mean? 是說汞被送進鼎裡面 而這個鼎是位於下丹田 跟鉛一起 而鉛則是從下面上來的 如果是這個意思，那也不對 因為鼎不是在下丹田 但是這個錯起碼比我原來的認知小，也就是我以為你是說下腹部的氣往上拉就可以打開中丹田 It means that the mercury was sent into the tripod？ And this tripod is located in the lower dantian？ with lead？ And lead comes from below？ If that's what it means, then it's not right, too Because Cauldron is not in the lower dantian But this mistake is at least smaller than my original understanding, that is, I thought you were saying that the qi in the lower abdomen can be pulled up to open the middle dantian. 我應該要這樣說 下腹部不是下丹田 下丹田不是單純存在於下腹部 下丹田表面上看是在下腹部 但是丹田的意思是產生丹的地方 只有玄關一竅才能產生丹 而玄關一竅不是在下丹田 玄關一竅如果是初級階段 氣的作用區是在下丹田 但是下丹田並非表示氣感只在下丹田 全身的氣感都在下丹田的作用區 I should have said this The lower abdomen is not the lower dantian The lower dantian does not simply exist in the lower abdomen The lower dantian appears to be in the lower abdomen But dantian means the place where dan is produced Only Xiuan Guang can produce dan And Xiuan Guang is not in the lower dantian If Xiuan Guang is in the primary stage The action area of qi is in the lower dantian But the lower dantian does not mean that the sense of qi is only in the lower dantian The qi sensation of the whole body is in the action area of the lower dantian 只要是氣感狀態，就屬於下丹田的氣機範圍 並不是說氣在下腹部就是下丹田 氣在胸口也是同樣屬於下丹田 氣在頭頂同樣也屬於下丹田 As long as it is in the state of qi sense, it belongs to the scope of qi in the lower dantian. It doesn't mean that qi in the lower abdomen means lower dantian Qi in the chest also belongs to the lower dantian Qi above the head also belongs to the lower dantian 我知道大部分的搬運法練習者不敢講自己開啟中丹田 只有少部分的搬運法練習者會把在中丹田的氣感稱為開啟中丹田 這是非常嚴重的錯誤 因為中丹田的開啟有一定的現象 經典當中寫得非常清楚 不是氣感在中丹田就是開啟中丹田 即使氣感在中丹田也不是開啟中丹田 氣感在中丹田也是下丹田的作用區 I know that most practitioners of the transfer method dare not talk about opening the middle dantian by themselves. Only a small number of practitioners of the transfer method will call the sense of Qi in the middle dantian as opening the middle dantian This is a very serious mistake Because the opening of the middle dantian has a certain phenomenon It is written very clearly in the classics It doesn't mean that the sense of qi is in the middle dantian, it means that the middle dantian is opened. Even if the sense of qi is in the middle dantian, it does not open the middle dantian The sense of qi in the middle dantian is also the action area of the lower dantian 只要是氣感的運行，都是屬於下丹田的作用範圍 不管這個氣在身體任何位置 包含胸口，頭頂，身體內部等等 As long as it is the operation of the sense of qi, it belongs to the scope of action of the lower dantian. No matter where this qi is in the body Including the chest, top of the head, inside the body, etc. 而且也不是汞和鉛被送進鼎裡面 而是鉛汞產生作用之後 才能出現鼎 鼎不是下腹部 鼎是只有鉛汞產生交互作用之後才會出現的空間 And it's not that mercury and lead are sent into the tripod. but after the lead and mercury have acted then the tripod has the possibility to appear tripod is not the lower abdomen tripod is a space that only appears after the interaction of lead and mercury It doesn't exit before the interaction of lead and mercury Ding = 鼎 ＝tripod = cauldron = Xiuan Guang Edited May 26, 2022 by awaken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said: … the Indian system recognizes many more chakras than just the seven major ones. … Yes, there were many different systems with various numbers of chakras. On 21/05/2022 at 6:33 PM, Cobie said: Originally the Hindu chakra system had only 3 chakras (the primary colours). The Chinese have 上， 中，and 下 丹田 Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted May 27, 2022 13 hours ago, awaken said: That is sent down into the "Cauldron" of the Lower Dan Tien with the Lead (which is related to Jing) that rises up from below 這句話的意思是什麼？ What does this sentence mean? 是說汞被送進鼎裡面 而這個鼎是位於下丹田 跟鉛一起 而鉛則是從下面上來的 如果是這個意思，那也不對 因為鼎不是在下丹田 但是這個錯起碼比我原來的認知小，也就是我以為你是說下腹部的氣往上拉就可以打開中丹田 It means that the mercury was sent into the tripod？ And this tripod is located in the lower dantian？ with lead？ And lead comes from below？ If that's what it means, then it's not right, too Because Cauldron is not in the lower dantian But this mistake is at least smaller than my original understanding, that is, I thought you were saying that the qi in the lower abdomen can be pulled up to open the middle dantian. 我應該要這樣說 下腹部不是下丹田 下丹田不是單純存在於下腹部 下丹田表面上看是在下腹部 但是丹田的意思是產生丹的地方 只有玄關一竅才能產生丹 而玄關一竅不是在下丹田 玄關一竅如果是初級階段 氣的作用區是在下丹田 但是下丹田並非表示氣感只在下丹田 全身的氣感都在下丹田的作用區 I should have said this The lower abdomen is not the lower dantian The lower dantian does not simply exist in the lower abdomen The lower dantian appears to be in the lower abdomen But dantian means the place where dan is produced Only Xiuan Guang can produce dan And Xiuan Guang is not in the lower dantian If Xiuan Guang is in the primary stage The action area of qi is in the lower dantian But the lower dantian does not mean that the sense of qi is only in the lower dantian The qi sensation of the whole body is in the action area of the lower dantian 只要是氣感狀態，就屬於下丹田的氣機範圍 並不是說氣在下腹部就是下丹田 氣在胸口也是同樣屬於下丹田 氣在頭頂同樣也屬於下丹田 As long as it is in the state of qi sense, it belongs to the scope of qi in the lower dantian. It doesn't mean that qi in the lower abdomen means lower dantian Qi in the chest also belongs to the lower dantian Qi above the head also belongs to the lower dantian 我知道大部分的搬運法練習者不敢講自己開啟中丹田 只有少部分的搬運法練習者會把在中丹田的氣感稱為開啟中丹田 這是非常嚴重的錯誤 因為中丹田的開啟有一定的現象 經典當中寫得非常清楚 不是氣感在中丹田就是開啟中丹田 即使氣感在中丹田也不是開啟中丹田 氣感在中丹田也是下丹田的作用區 I know that most practitioners of the transfer method dare not talk about opening the middle dantian by themselves. Only a small number of practitioners of the transfer method will call the sense of Qi in the middle dantian as opening the middle dantian This is a very serious mistake Because the opening of the middle dantian has a certain phenomenon It is written very clearly in the classics It doesn't mean that the sense of qi is in the middle dantian, it means that the middle dantian is opened. Even if the sense of qi is in the middle dantian, it does not open the middle dantian The sense of qi in the middle dantian is also the action area of the lower dantian 只要是氣感的運行，都是屬於下丹田的作用範圍 不管這個氣在身體任何位置 包含胸口，頭頂，身體內部等等 As long as it is the operation of the sense of qi, it belongs to the scope of action of the lower dantian. No matter where this qi is in the body Including the chest, top of the head, inside the body, etc. 而且也不是汞和鉛被送進鼎裡面 而是鉛汞產生作用之後 才能出現鼎 鼎不是下腹部 鼎是只有鉛汞產生交互作用之後才會出現的空間 And it's not that mercury and lead are sent into the tripod. but after the lead and mercury have acted then the tripod has the possibility to appear tripod is not the lower abdomen tripod is a space that only appears after the interaction of lead and mercury It doesn't exit before the interaction of lead and mercury Ding = 鼎 ＝tripod = cauldron = Xiuan Guang I'm sorry, but i am finding it harder and harder to decipher exactly what you are saying...Some of it is coming across But ill leave a few illustrations here and then bow out I understand what you are trying to say about energetic vs spiritual work Different systems do different things, different systems work different ways, and different systems place certain points in different location Some folk use this model Others use this (Particularly Alchemical Lines) And sometimes people work from this model Locating the Ding then....You can see it here at the center of the LDT But further confusion can ensue...because you can and do get people referring to the chakras as "cauldrons" and then....you get some systems that use nine instead of seven 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) . Edited November 29, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) @Shadow_self Thank you very much for the 丹田 pictures. I find them very illuminating. : ) 5 minutes ago, Cobie said: 10 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: … Some folk use this model Others use this (Particularly Alchemical Lines) And sometimes people work from this model Locating the Ding then....You can see it here at the center of the LDT Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, awaken said: … 在真正的丹道裡面 烏肝確實是七彩的 跟中脈七輪是完全相同的系統 … 真正的丹道 是魂魄修煉 是烏肝兔髓的修煉 … Chakra system. Chakra and 丹田 dan1 tian2 systems are the same. : ) ~~~ 脈 輪 系統 mai4 lun2 xìtǒng xi4 tong3 - chakra system 脈 mai4 - something linking up to form a blood-vessel-like network 輪 lun2 - wheel 系 統 xìtǒng ― communication system 系 ji4 - to do up 統 tong3 - interconnected system 七 個 脈 輪 qi1 ge4 mai4 lun2 - 7 chakras 個人= 个 = measure word ~~~ … 在真正的丹道裡面 Zài zhēnzhèng de dān dào lǐmiàn 烏肝確實是七彩的 wū gān quèshí shì qīcǎi de Black liver is indeed colorful 跟中脈七輪是完全相同的系統 gēn zhōngmài qīlún shì wánquán xiāngtóng de xìtǒng It is the exact same system as the seven chakras of the central chakra … 真正的丹道 zhēnzhèng de dān dào 是魂魄修煉 shì húnpò xiūliàn 是烏肝兔髓的修煉 shì wū gān tù suǐ de xiūliàn … Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, awaken said: … 肝藏魂，肺藏魄，心藏神，脾藏意，腎藏志 而中脈七輪的七彩光，就是肝藏魂的範圍 … The liver stores Hun, the lungs store Pou, the heart stores Shen the spleen stores attention, and the kidney stores the will And the colorful light of the seven chakras of the central channel is the scope of which liver stores Hun … 修煉屬於神魂魄領域 … cultivation belongs to the realm of Shen-Hun_Pau … ShenHunPo. 神魂魄 shen2 hun2 po4 Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, awaken said: .. 氣要先精緻化成烏肝 烏肝之後要能進入恍惚 … Trance. 神恍惚 shen2 huang3 hu1 - trance ~~~ 氣要先精緻化成烏肝 Qì yào xiān jīngzhì huàchéng wū gān 烏肝之後要能進入恍惚 wū gān zhīhòu yào néng jìnrù huǎnghū Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shadow_self said: I'm sorry, but i am finding it harder and harder to decipher exactly what you are saying...Some of it is coming across But ill leave a few illustrations here and then bow out I understand what you are trying to say about energetic vs spiritual work Different systems do different things, different systems work different ways, and different systems place certain points in different location Some folk use this model Others use this (Particularly Alchemical Lines) And sometimes people work from this model Locating the Ding then....You can see it here at the center of the LDT But further confusion can ensue...because you can and do get people referring to the chakras as "cauldrons" and then....you get some systems that use nine instead of seven 你用這個圖形就是搬運法練習者畫出來的 黃庭不是在這個位置 黃庭經已經講得很清楚黃庭在哪裡 所以說搬運法危害非常大 扭曲丹道的意思 導致你根本分不清楚什麼是丹道 什麼是搬運法 The figure you used was drawn by practitioners of the transfer method. Huang Ting is not in this position Huang Tingjing has made it very clear where Huang Ting is Therefore, the transport method is very dangerous. They twisted a lot of meanings of Dan Dao Cause you can't tell what is Dan Dao or transfer method 你如果要搞清楚丹道是怎麼回事 你就要針對兩個系統去下手 一個是以練氣為主的搬運法 一個是以修仙為主的丹道 你搞清楚這兩個系統的不同 你才有辦法搞清楚到底怎麼回事 If you want to find out what happened to Dan Dao You have to start with two systems One is the transportation method based on qi training One is alchemy based on cultivating immortals You understand the difference between the two systems You have a way to figure out what's going on 要搞清楚這兩者有何不同的最好辦法 就是兩個都練過 這樣你就很清楚這兩者有何不同 從理論上你是根本搞不清楚的 你必須從實務上去實踐 實踐才能得真知 The best way to figure out how the two are different Just practiced both That way you can see exactly how the two are different In theory you have no idea at all you have to practice Only Practicing get to know the truth 上有黃庭下關元，前有幽闕後命門 關元在下腹部，黃庭在頭顱裡面，也就是泥丸 黃庭中人衣朱衣 這句話已經講得很清楚了 黃庭的位置是什麼很清楚了 但是你不相信我 因為你沒有練到『黃庭中人衣朱衣』 如果你跟我一樣，你練到『黃庭中人衣朱衣』 這樣你就不用去網路上抓這些圖 你會跟我一樣清楚黃庭在哪裡 There is Huang Ting on the top and Xiaguan Yuan on the below, and Youque in the front and Mingmen in the back. Guan Yuan is in the lower abdomen, Huang Ting is in the head, that is, the mud pill The one in Huang Tingzhong is in red clothes This sentence has been made clear What is the location of Huang Ting is very clear But you don't believe me Because you haven't reached "Huang Ting Zhongren Yi Zhu Yi" If you are like me, you reach "Huang Ting Zhong Yi Zhu Yi" you don't have to go to the Internet to grab these pictures You will know as much as I do where Huang Ting is Edited May 27, 2022 by awaken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, awaken said: … 上有黃庭下關元，前有幽闕後命門 關元在下腹部，黃庭在頭顱裡面，也就是泥丸 黃庭中人衣朱衣 … There is Huang Ting on the top and Xiaguan Yuan on the below, and Youque in the front and Mingmen in the back. Guan Yuan is in the lower abdomen, Huang Ting is in the head, that is, the mud pill The one in Huang Tingzhong is in red clothes … Dan Tien system. 丹田 dan1 tian2. Edited May 27, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted June 16, 2022 你的觀察力很強 道家修煉確實和脈輪是相同的 因此一個把注意力放在下腹部的搬運法練習者，如果產生光，通常只會出現暖色系的光，例如紅色，橘色，黃色 而一個把注意力放在頭部的光的觀想者，如果產生光，通常會出現冷色系，例如藍色，紫色，或者白色 而一個把注意力放在胸口的練習者，如果產生光，通常會出現綠色 因此注意力的擺放位置，決定了光的頻率的高低。 而有些西藏密宗的練習者，採用非固定的注意力擺放，而是把注意力以一種背景覺察的方式來使用 練到後來，就會全部的顏色都出現過 最後會剩下兩個顏色的交替，可能會在紅色和藍色之間交替 或者會在紅色和白色之間交替出現 you are very observant Taoist practice is indeed the same as chakras Therefore, a practitioner who focuses on the lower abdomen, if he produces light, usually only appears in warm colors, such as red, orange, and yellow. And a visualizer who focuses on the light in the head, if the light is generated, usually appears in cool colors such as blue, purple, or white And a practitioner who focuses on the chest will usually appear green if light is generated Therefore, the placement of attention determines the frequency of light. Some Tibetan tantra practitioners use a non-fixed attention placement, but use attention in a background-aware way. After practice, all the colors will appear In the end there will be an alternation of two colors left, possibly between red and blue or will alternate between red and white 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted June 16, 2022 我原本的老師是一個密宗瑜伽老師，她教我把注意力放在頭 因此我有十幾年的時間，都是紫光 直到我自己覺悟出注意力的擺放不能只有放在頭部，我把注意力放在背景，只是覺察 這才改變了十幾年的紫光狀態 開始有了不同的現象產生 不過我在遇到那位密宗瑜伽老師之前，我自己練習，就已經是紫光了 加上密宗瑜伽老師的教法，那就更是完全卡在紫光，無法脫身 別人很難想像卡在紫光十五年那種感覺 完全沒有進步 停滯 My original teacher was a tantric yoga teacher who taught me to focus on my head So I have more than ten years of time, all purple light Until I realized that I can't just put my attention on the head, I put my attention on the background, just notice This has changed the state of purple light for more than ten years began to have different phenomena But before I met the tantric yoga teacher, I practiced by myself, and it was already purple light Coupled with the teaching method of the tantric yoga teacher, it is completely stuck in the purple light, unable to escape It's hard for others to imagine the feeling of being stuck in purple light for fifteen years no progress at all stagnant 我不知道我的人生還有幾個十五年可以浪費 所以最後我選擇放棄所有的方法 完全不使用任何方法 才開始有了改變 I don't know how many fifteen years of my life are left to waste So in the end I chose to give up all methods no method at all the state just started to change 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted June 16, 2022 當我改變練法之後 我把注意力放在背景 讓注意力自由之後 眼前的光開始改變了 每一個顏色的光都會出現 我閉上眼睛先是紅光 然後變成橘光，黃光，綠光，藍光，紫光，然後進入恍惚，通常白光會在恍惚後出現 有時候會有其他現象，現象太多種了，很難一次說清楚 隨著當天狀態的不同，就會產生不同的現象 After I changed my practice I focus on the background After letting attention be free The light in front of me begins to change Every color of light appears When I close my eyes, it turns red Then it becomes orange light, yellow light, green light, blue light, purple light, and then goes into trance, usually white light will appear after trance Sometimes there are other phenomena, and there are so many phenomena that it is difficult to explain them all at once Depending on the state of the day, different phenomena will occur 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 但是搬運法的練習者當中，有很大的一部分，是反對光的存在的 因此這群人會刻意將注意力鎖定在下腹部的氣 這群人就很難出現光 也有另外一群搬運法練習者，是贊成光的出現，但是這群人還是會把注意力放在下腹部，所以經常會看到暖色系的光 所以如果是反對光的搬運法練習者，可能就會說脈輪系統和道家修煉是不同的，因為這群人認為把注意力放在下腹部是正統的道家修煉 事實上老子根本就沒有說要把注意力放在下腹部，莊子也沒有 老子說的是『觀復』，看反覆 However, among the practitioners of the transfer method, there are a large number of people who oppose the existence of light. Therefore, this group of people will deliberately focus their attention on the Qi in the lower abdomen. It's hard for these people to show up the light There is also another group of practitioners who are in favor of the appearance of light, but these people still focus on the lower abdomen, so they often see light in warm colors. So if you meet an anti-light-carrying method practitioner, you might hear they say that the chakra system is different from Taoist practice, because this group of people think that focusing on the lower abdomen is orthodox Taoist practice In fact, Lao Tzu didn't say to pay attention to the lower abdomen at all, nor did Zhuang Tzu What Lao Tzu said is "Guanfu", look at it over and over again 易經也說一陰一陽之謂道 Yi Chin also said one yin and one yang is called Dao. The basic meaning of Dao is yin and yang, not focus Qi in the lower abdomen When one follow the Dao of one yin and one yan, the Qi also can flow through abdomen by natural in some state. In fact, if you follow the dao of one yin and one yan, the Qi will flow all over your body by nature It's just a pity that in the past few years, I've talked so hard and loud, but it only attracted hostility, so I don't want to talk anymore Edited June 16, 2022 by awaken 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, awaken said: 你的觀察力很強 … To whom is this addressed? Edited June 16, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, awaken said: 道家修煉確實和脈輪是相同的 因此一個把注意力放在下腹部的搬運法練習者，如果產生光，通常只會出現暖色系的光，例如紅色，橘色，黃色 而一個把注意力放在頭部的光的觀想者，如果產生光，通常會出現冷色系，例如藍色，紫色，或者白色 而一個把注意力放在胸口的練習者，如果產生光，通常會出現綠色 因此注意力的擺放位置，決定了光的頻率的高低。 Yes I agree, that has been my observation too. Edited June 16, 2022 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
