What exactly is neidan/internal alchemy?

[Shadow_self]

4 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Enlighten me.

 

Sure

 

Rainbow body means you will still reincarnate....its in the intermediate states of Jhana

 

Light body is the higher attainment, when that happens you dont  have to come back, ever

 

Damo Mitchell was exhibiting classic signs of 2nd Jhana a very long time ago (over a decade now) ...and the proof was there for everyone to see

 

Scores of people, including non affiliates and non practitioners, (because that's one of the things, you have no control over it)

 

Do you know what that sign is? 

 

4 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

You think Heavenly Immortal is the end of the path? Hahaha. The path is infinite. One is not higher than the other. You are delusional and straight up wrong.

Care to expand on it?

 

I  personally think the preservation of the self, whatever form that may take is a lower aim yes.

 

That is my opinion and you are welcome to argue it

 

My aim would be Nirodha...in the most literal sense

 

4 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Please post my practices. That’d be great.

 

Your teacher seems to think the waving hands practice is more than sufficient.

 

All about the softness right? 

 

4 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

I don’t see why you are so hellbent on proving me wrong. You have your path and I have mine.

 

I have told you that Damo does not teach the way of the elixir

 

You've repeated your teachers narrative, and I know because hes embedded into your psyche so deep, anyone with a speckle of insight can see it

 

The tiktok man up there is your teachers teacher

 

Heres a picture of him

 

 

Lots of grey hair for an immortal...

 

Your teacher also learned from the whole AA/Russian Cohort

 

Tell the truth and least be honest. 

 

I know who he is, and he is not what you claim.

 

4 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

. If you want to take the Buddhist path, go ahead. That’d be great!

I do both, because I understand the relationship between the mind and the body, and can see how the practices complement one another well

 

4 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

I have simply been saying this entire time that Damo’a school does not lead to Yang Shen.

 

And I'm saying that you haven't provided an iota of evidence to support that claim

 

Only " my teacher said"

 

Well I've discerned who your teacher is (you embody his signature), and he has no authority to make a claim like that.

 

ZERO

 

So you'll need something else

 

4 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

If you think it leads to rainbow body and beyond, go ahead and take that path and achieve it. It matters not to me.

 

Im quite happy with my teachers, the provide me everything I need

 

You've been misled unfortunately

[MetaDao]

36 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Sure

 

Rainbow body means you will still reincarnate....its in the intermediate states of Jhana

 

Light body is the higher attainment, when that happens you dont  have to come back, ever

 

Damo Mitchell was exhibiting classic signs of 2nd Jhana a very long time ago (over a decade now) ...and the proof was there for everyone to see

 

Scores of people, including non affiliates and non practitioners, (because that's one of the things, you have no control over it)

 

Do you know what that sign is? 

 

Care to expand on it?

 

I  personally think the preservation of the self, whatever form that may take is a lower aim yes.

 

That is my opinion and you are welcome to argue it

 

My aim would be Nirodha...in the most literal sense

 

 

Your teacher seems to think the waving hands practice is more than sufficient.

 

All about the softness right? 

 

 

You've repeated your teachers narrative, and I know because hes embedded into your psyche so deep, anyone with a speckle of insight can see it

 

The tiktok man up there is your teachers teacher

 

Heres a picture of him

 

 

Lots of grey hair for an immortal...

 

Your teacher also learned from the whole AA/Russian Cohort

 

Tell the truth and least be honest. 

 

I know who he is, and he is not what you claim.

 

I do both, because I understand the relationship between the mind and the body, and can see how the practices complement one another well

 

 

And I'm saying that you haven't provided an iota of evidence to support that claim

 

Only " my teacher said"

 

Well I've discerned who your teacher is (you embody his signature), and he has no authority to make a claim like that.

 

ZERO

 

So you'll need something else

 

 

Im quite happy with my teachers, the provide me everything I need

 

You've been misled unfortunately

Hhahaha I am afraid you have been misled my friend. Daoism is all about elimination of the self. Not preservation of the self. Earth immortals can control how they age. If the man you sent above claims to be an earth immortal, then he is controlling his age to continue until such a time that he actualizes the embryo. It would be quite obvious if you could see he wasn’t aging in his tik toks hehe

 

Body is directly connected to mind. So anything you do with your body has a direct affect on the energetic and spiritual substances of the body. I have no need to explain my my practice to you.

 

You are still explaining Buddhist attainments which are different than Daoist attainments.  
 

Light body is equivalent to about Spiritual immortal then. 2nd Jhana does not equate with light body at all.

 

That is simply a Yin Shen state. That man in the picture could enter 2nd Jhana easily. While moving.

 

So, you’re basically saying Damo is in the Rainbow body stage. A great achievement for Buddhism. High level Buddhist practitioner. If he doesn’t develop further he will still be in reincarnation cycle. 
 

Any sort of jhanic state or meditative state can easily be entered by any Di Xian.  With the associated signs. Again, I am not educated in Buddhist alchemy. I googled Nirodha. That’s simply the cessation of all desire. That’s a prerequisite for Di Xian. To transmute Yin Shen to Yang Shen, you must fuse together your original nature and your original energy. All desire is ended and entering Jhana states is as easy as flipping a hand

 

Someone who can enter the 2nd Jhana is still human and can still misuse abilities. Takes tons of practice to achieve, sure. Nothing you can’t do easily yourself if you keep practicing shadow

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by MetaDao

[MetaDao]

26 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Im quite happy with my teachers, the provide me everything I need

Good! Stay with them. I am not trying to convince people to switch teachers. You should only switch teachers if you would like a different sort of attainment. 
 

You are saying what I am saying now and I believe we have reached a common consensus finally. Damo is aiming for Buddhist attainments. If you seek Daoist attainments and the elixir, it isn’t the school for you. If you want the light body, then it is. Not sure why that isn’t stated clearly in one of Damo’s videos or on the site.

 

Body is a gateway to mind and vice-versa.  You attack it from both angle. Nice! We attack it directly through the body. Hence why Daoist alchemy is more equated with yoga.

 

My teacher charges money for teachings as well. It is my personal belief that a large school should be funneling money to charities or elsewhere. If a school is generating 500,000 a year, it only makes sense to me that the money could go to beneficial places rather than lining the teachers pockets. Reaching back in my soul, I know for a fact this is the right way to do things. In this modern era, things are not quite working how I would like them to. And, I give myself the authority to make that statement 

Edited November 10, 2022 by MetaDao

[Shadow_self]

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Hhahaha I am afraid you have been misled my friend.

Not at all

 

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Daoism is all about elimination of the self. Not preservation of the self.

Umm no it isnt...It eliminates the acquired self

 

Immortality is literally the preservation of the original self

 

Your teacher needs to go back to school

 

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Earth immortals can control how they age. If the man you sent above claims to be an earth immortal, then he is controlling his age to continue until such a time that he actualizes the embryo.

 

Hes not an earth immortal, and neither is your teacher

 

He sure has you guys wasting a lot of money thinking he is though

 

Whats his siddhi again, drinking hot water? 

 

Every year one of you shows up, every year the same tired old doctrine

 

We have the super secret standing practices

Damo Is a fraud

We care not for your  measly Yin shen practice

 

Man give it a break, you are literally paying this guy with no clue of his attainments

 

I've seen his nonsense,

 

I've seen his practice

 

I've seen his instructions and words written down

 

I even know people who trained with him, and he has never demonstrated anything except a big ego, delusion and a lack of actual attainment

 

And he's so bad, he cant even come on here himself to make his claims, he'll let his students do it

 

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Body is directly connected to mind. So anything you do with your body has a direct affect on the energetic and spiritual substances of the body.

And?

 

You can do all the physical practice in the world, if you arent working on your mind as well you are not working as efficiently as you could be

 

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

I have no need to explain my my practice to you.

 

Ive already seen you teachers explanation of it. Nice hefty fee for a lot of delusion regards attainments

 

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

You are still explaining Buddhist attainments which are different than Daoist attainments.  

 

You were the one who asked for an explanation, I had to provide it because yet again you dont know

 

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Light body is equivalent to about Spiritual immortal then. 2nd Jhana does not equate with light body at all.

I never said that

 

Light body is 8-9th Jhana, thats game over boy

 

I said Damo  Mitchell was exhibiting signs of 2nd Jhana well over a decade ago.  So he's doing just fine I imagine

 

If you understood you'd know what those signs are

 

5 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

That is simply a Yin Shen state. That man in the picture could enter 2nd Jhana easily. While moving.

Except he is neither doing it, nor has shown any ability to

 

Much like that teacher who studies with him, who you wont name

[damdao]

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Doubt he'll name them, or doubt its him?

It is very unlikely that he is either in the russian school or in one of the english speaking branches.

What he says has little to do either with wuliupai or with yuxianpai. 

[damdao]

Double post. Sorry.

Edited November 10, 2022 by damdao

[MetaDao]

3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Not at all

 

Umm no it isnt...It eliminates the acquired self

 

Immortality is literally the preservation of the original self

 

Your teacher needs to go back to school

 

 

Hes not an earth immortal, and neither is your teacher

 

He sure has you guys wasting a lot of money thinking he is though

 

Whats his siddhi again, drinking hot water? 

 

Every year one of you shows up, every year the same tired old doctrine

 

We have the super secret standing practices

Damo Is a fraud

We care not for your  measly Yin shen practice

 

Man give it a break, you are literally paying this guy with no clue of his attainments

 

I've seen his nonsense,

 

I've seen his practice

 

I've seen his instructions and words written down

 

I even know people who trained with him, and he has never demonstrated anything except a big ego, delusion and a lack of actual attainment

 

And he's so bad, he cant even come on here himself to make his claims, he'll let his students do it

 

And?

 

You can do all the physical practice in the world, if you arent working on your mind as well you are not working as efficiently as you could be

 

 

Ive already seen you teachers explanation of it. Nice hefty fee for a lot of delusion regards attainments

 

 

You were the one who asked for an explanation, I had to provide it because yet again you dont know

 

I never said that

 

Light body is 8-9th Jhana, thats game over boy

 

I said Damo  Mitchell was exhibiting signs of 2nd Jhana well over a decade ago.  So he's doing just fine I imagine

 

If you understood you'd know what those signs are

 

Except he is neither doing it, nor has shown any ability to

 

Much like that teacher who studies with him, who you wont name

Okay. The distance between 2nd and 9th Jhana is a huge jump. 
 

Okay. It’s clear you don’t understand Neidan and it’s clear I don’t understand your Buddhist practice. 
 

Neidan attacks mind directly through body. You open all channels. You work with the pre-heaven substances, refine them, and fuse them. This can be done through movements. If you understand any of Damo’s teachings you know that mind flows through the channels and is directly affected by the pre-heaven energies

Edited November 10, 2022 by MetaDao

[Shadow_self]

1 minute ago, damdao said:

It is very unlikely that he is either in the russian school or in one of the english speaking branches.

What he says has little to do either with wuliupai or with yuxianpai. 

 

Hes not

 

but his teacher has been with them, and  the other person pictured above

 

Thats why the rhetoric is there, but there are divergences also

[MetaDao]

11 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Umm no it isnt...It eliminates the acquired self

 

Immortality is literally the preservation of the original self

Preservation of original nature you mean? Mind is completely eliminated. Free will is retained.

[Shadow_self]

2 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Okay. The distance between 2nd and 9th Jhana is a huge jump. 

That error was yours...because you are confused

 

2 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Okay. It’s clear you don’t understand Neidan and it’s clear I don’t understand your Buddhist practice. 

 

Ah the compromise  Are we here already?

 

That backfoot must be starting to get tired

 

I understand Nei Dan enough to know Damo teaches proper foundations according to his tradition

 

That is whats important, and that's all that's important.

 

You have no idea of his attainments, I  even had to point out known facts about him to you

 

There's only one person I know here qualified to assess his practices, and its not you. Hes repeatedly made his feelings known on it

 

You came here and made a bunch of  baseless accusations, emotional appeals, false claims, and strawman arguments, for no good reason

 

And they are falling apart with every message...so maybe think about that

 

2 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Preservation of original nature you mean? Mind is completely eliminated. Free will is retained.

 

These are semantical terms

 

acquired self -acquired nature

original self - original nature

 

If you listened to Damo's podcast (the one you ironically credited before your tirade)

 

You'd hear him discuss the candle flame being preserved vs being put out

 

Same thing

 

That's the difference between the end point of  Daoist Neidan vs the type Buddhist practice I'm talking about

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

Damo may not be a fraud but I have my own evidence that he misuses Siddhi

This evidence is what exactly?

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

and his teachings certainly don’t lead to Yang Shen directly from him, himself.

Im sorry, which Dragons gate lineage are you again?

 

Oh thats right, you arent

 

So what evidence is it then?

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

He is in different sorts of lines and who knows what destination he reaches for?

Pretty sure is said it directly in the interview

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

You think it’s be clear in his videos what he is aiming for.

 

Well he said it in the interview, and if you'd bothered to ask him he'd tell you

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

He, at the very least, misleads students a bit because I, for sure, thought his teachings would lead to the elixir.  

So you believed something he never once said, and somehow its his fault?

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

If he was charitable and embodied the buddhas teachings, he would let people access the academy teachings for free who couldn’t afford it.

Why isnt you teacher teaching for free? He charges more than Damo,

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

The fact that he has done this a few times is nice! As expected of a spiritual master!

Hes more charitable than you know...But its easy to judge a person based on your limited perception and ideals

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

The original post was Neidan and I am making it clear that Damo’s teachings do not lead to Yang Shen let alone spiritual immortal or heavenly immortal.

 

Except it isn't clear and you've provided absolutely nothing in the way of evidence to support that statement. Literally nothing

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

I am not an expert of the Buddhist path but I know that one is not higher than the other.

That depends on how you view it

 

If you are trying to preserve something...anything at all, is that attachment?

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

They are simply different. The path is infinite either way.

So whats the level above heavenly immortal in Daoism?

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

This is not interested as a bad mouth of Damo.

Oh you have done enough bad mouthing of him to be honest. None of it warranted

 

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

It is simply a presentation of facts to guide any people seeking Neidan.

Wrong, it is a presentation of opinion

 

Facts require evidence, evidence you haven't provided us

2 hours ago, MetaDao said:

If you’re seeking the golden embryo, it’s best to look for it in people who have achieved the elixir within authentic lines

So we are back to achievements? How do you know his achievements?

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

Light body is equivalent to about Spiritual immortal then. 2nd Jhana does not equate with light body at all.

Wrong, spiritual immortals come back

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

So, you’re basically saying Damo is in the Rainbow body stage.

No you are saying that, I made no such statement

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

A great achievement for Buddhism. High level Buddhist practitioner.

Well who said he achieved it? 

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

If he doesn’t develop further he will still be in reincarnation cycle. 
 

Still waiting for concrete evidence you know his level

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

Any sort of jhanic state or meditative state can easily be entered by any Di Xian.

How so?

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

 With the associated signs.

Which are?

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

Again, I am not educated in Buddhist alchemy.

Clearly that is quite obvious at this point, though Im having to correct you neidan assertions also so

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

I googled Nirodha.

You had to google it?

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

That’s simply the cessation of all desire. That’s a prerequisite for Di Xian.

No its not and no it isnt

 

Its just cessation

 

Go back to the candle flame metophor

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

To transmute Yin Shen to Yang Shen, you must fuse together your original nature and your original energy. All desire is ended and entering Jhana states is as easy as flipping a hand

The type of Nihroda I'm talking about is beyond this

 

It just ceases. everything goes

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

Someone who can enter the 2nd Jhana is still human and can still misuse abilities.

Sure, whats the point?

 

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

Takes tons of practice to achieve, sure.

Yep

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

Nothing you can’t do easily yourself if you keep practicing shadow

Hopefully

[MetaDao]

30 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

This evidence is what exactly?

 

Im sorry, which Dragons gate lineage are you again?

 

Oh thats right, you arent

 

So what evidence is it then?

 

Pretty sure is said it directly in the interview

 

 

Well he said it in the interview, and if you'd bothered to ask him he'd tell you

So you believed something he never once said, and somehow its his fault?

 

Why isnt you teacher teaching for free? He charges more than Damo,

 

Hes more charitable than you know...But its easy to judge a person based on your limited perception and ideals

 

 

Except it isn't clear and you've provided absolutely nothing in the way of evidence to support that statement. Literally nothing

 

That depends on how you view it

 

If you are trying to preserve something...anything at all, is that attachment?

 

So whats the level above heavenly immortal in Daoism?

 

Oh you have done enough bad mouthing of him to be honest. None of it warranted

 

Wrong, it is a presentation of opinion

 

Facts require evidence, evidence you haven't provided us

So we are back to achievements? How do you know his achievements?

 

Wrong, spiritual immortals come back

 

No you are saying that, I made no such statement

 

Well who said he achieved it? 

 

Still waiting for concrete evidence you know his level

 

How so?

 

Which are?

 

Clearly that is quite obvious at this point, though Im having to correct you neidan assertions also so

 

You had to google it?

 

No its not and no it isnt

 

Its just cessation

 

Go back to the candle flame metophor

The type of Nihroda I'm talking about is beyond this

 

It just ceases. everything goes

 

Sure, whats the point?

 

Yep

Hopefully

You are consistently hypocritical, contradictory and present false information yourself. This conversation has now come to an end. 
 

It’s hopeless arguing with you.

 

Spiritual immortals are free from the reincarnation cycle. They do not come back unless they choose to do so. And when they do it’s for good reason. So, you are wrong yet again. You think you know what Neidan is and you are clearly wrong. This is because you are listening to a teacher without any attainment close to Yang Shen. The fact you think spiritual immortals are still stuck in the reincarnation cycle is laughable.

Cessation, you say? And what do you solve with that? Nothing. You bring no value to the world. 
 

You provide no evidence you have any sort of attainment. No teacher to back you up either. Just absolute garbage understanding that you are convinced is right.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by MetaDao

[MetaDao]

32 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

You had to google it?

Lol, if I started speaking another language would you instantly know what it meant? You are so deluded. Just give it up man

[Shadow_self]

1 minute ago, MetaDao said:

You are consistently hypocritical, contradictory and present false information yourself. This conversation has now come to an end

 

Ah, are you disappointed I didnt accept the compromise? Oh dear

 

Actually, if you'll watch what I've done this entire time

 

I've let you hang yourself (and your teacher) through your own words, by asking you questions you either don't know how to answer, cannot answer, or will tell a lie to answer, or endlessly contradict yourself

 

Please show me any false information, hypocritical or contradictory statements I made : I'm begging you  

 

Anytime you asked a question that involved an explanation, you were given an answer

 

Anytime I asked you a question requiring an explanation, you could rarely provide one, and if you did, the description was either wrong or dishonest

 

I'll repeat this one more time.

 

Claims require evidence. Evidence I am happy to look at and assess if you provide it, and accept it if it is valid

 

But we both know you don't have it or nor can you provide it

 

Tell  "your teacher" he isn't fooling anyone, and if he wants a debate , not to be so Machiavellian and come and make it himself,

 

If hes not too busy practicing the hot water siddhi , that is  

 

[MetaDao]

3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Ah, are you disappointed I didnt accept the compromise? Oh dear

 

Actually, if you'll watch what I've done this entire time

 

I've let you hang yourself (and your teacher) through your own words, by asking you questions you either don't know how to answer, cannot answer, or will tell a lie to answer, or endlessly contradict yourself

 

Please show me any false information, hypocritical or contradictory statements I made : I'm begging you  

 

Anytime you asked a question that involved an explanation, you were given an answer

 

Anytime I asked you a question requiring an explanation, you could rarely provide one, and if you did, the description was either wrong or dishonest

 

I'll repeat this one more time.

 

Claims require evidence. Evidence I am happy to look at and assess if you provide it, and accept it if it is valid

 

But we both know you don't have it or nor can you provide it

 

Tell  "your teacher" he isn't fooling anyone, and if he wants a debate , not to be so Machiavellian and come and make it himself,

 

If hes not too busy practicing the hot water siddhi , that is  

 

Yes. You have proven quite well that you are nothing and will never attain anything of a high degree unless you take a good hard look at yourself. The hypocrisy dripping off your words is insane. I could talk to you for the next two years about how all your understanding of Neidan is wrong and you still wouldn’t get it

Edited November 10, 2022 by MetaDao

[MetaDao]

39 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Pretty sure is said it directly in the interview

Quote it please. From what I remember it goes something like my goal is a bit different than the Daoist immortality and has been steadily going more towards Buddhism. No clear attainment stated whatsoever. Never mentions his teachers or lineage.
 

 

[MetaDao]

41 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

its not and no it isnt

Yes it is and yes it is. Lol

[MetaDao]

24 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Hes more charitable than you know...But its easy to judge a person based on your limited perception and ideals

Something you seem to quite easily do. Mistaken about multiple masters. And judging nonstop.

 

I judge Damo based on my interactions with him. He judges me the same

[Shadow_self]

2 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Lol, if I started speaking another language would you instantly know what it meant? You are so deluded. Just give it up man

Id just have asked you, because not everyone means the same thing when they use a term

 

Thats why you made a mistake

Just now, MetaDao said:

Yes. You have proven quite well that you are nothing and will never attain anything of a high degree unless you take a good hard look at yourself. 

Oh I am nothing  so are you saying that I dont exist?

 

You realise my aims are related to subtraction, not addition.

Quote

The hypocrisy dripping off your words is insane

Really? Can I have some quotes please?

 

Meanwhile

 

Teaching online is wrong - Your teacher does zoom primarily

Damo is a fraud - You teacher thinks drinking hot water is a siddhi

Damo should teach for free - You teacher charges more than twice what he does

 

Do you really want to go down this road now? Last chance before the vehicle hits the car rail and goes over the cliff

[MetaDao]

12 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Claims require evidence

Do they? You repeatedly state claims about Neidan with 0 evidence and 90% of them are wrong. 
 

You have no lineage backing within Neidan.

 

Do I need to quote every single one of your mistakes?

[MetaDao]

1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

You teacher thinks drinking hot water is a siddhi

Never said this. You just made it up. The list goes on and on. You are deluded 

[MetaDao]

1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

Your teacher does zoom primarily

What teacher? You don’t know who my teacher is. Who said he zooms primarily?

 

lemme just mimick your wording real quick 

[MetaDao]

2 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

You teacher charges more than twice what he does

 

Where are the prices? Do you see them? Claims with 0 evidence

[MetaDao]

3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

subtraction, not addition.

Lol what happens when you subtract the clock back before it ever started 

[MetaDao]

53 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

presentation of opinion

Opinion can be fact. There is objective truth. You seem to stray into false much more than true