The reason why a person who only has qi in his lower abdomen can't understand the WuZenPian

[awaken]

人人盡有長生藥，自是愚迷枉擺拋。

 

https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/悟真篇

 

Everyone has a medicine that can make them live longer, but they foolishly abandon this medicine

 

從張伯端的宋朝時代就有這種情況，張想要分享修煉法，愚蠢的世俗之人卻拋棄不要

 

這就是跟老子感慨下德之人無法領略道理的原因。

 

高深的道一向不是愚蠢的世俗之人所能理解的。

 

不管是老子，佛陀，或是張伯端，都有同樣的感概。

 

This has been the case since Zhang Boduan's Song Dynasty. Zhang wanted to share the cultivation method, but the foolish worldly people abandoned it.

This is the reason why people who are virtuous cannot understand the truth with Lao Tzu.

The high Tao has never been understood by foolish worldly people.

Whether it is Lao Tzu, Buddha, or Zhang Boduan, they all have the same feeling.

[awaken]

甘露降時天地合，黃芽生處坎離交。

 

https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/悟真篇

 

甘露通常解釋為口水，屬於氣機運行時候產生的口水

這裡的天地應該是水火

當腎氣被心火蒸熏之後，往上面蒸發產生口水

所以這裡講的是氣發動的時機

 

Manna is usually interpreted as saliva, which belongs to the saliva produced when the Qi  is running.

The sky and land here should be fire and water

When the kidney qi is fumigated by the heart fire, it evaporates to produce saliva.

So here we are talking about the timing of the Qi starting

 

黃芽是陰極生陽的黃白光

坎離是烏肝和兔髓

陰極生陽的黃白光出現在烏肝和兔髓交替出現之後

 

The yellow bud is the yellow  white light of the cathode generating the yang

Kan_li is black liver and rabbit marrow

The yellow  white light that generates yang from the cathode appears after the black liver and rabbit marrow alternately appear

 

搬運法只練氣，不練烏肝兔髓，所以看不懂悟真篇裡面關於黃芽的說法

 

The TM only practices Qi, not black liver and rabbit marrow, so. can't understand the statement about Huang Ya in Wu_zhen_pian.

Edited June 26, 2022 by awaken

[Taoist Texts]

15 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

17 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

well since you ask. 1. @awaken is the most advanced practicer on this forum.  

 

1. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence...Aside from your conjecture have you any actual verifiable evidence whatsoever to back up that claim? Or is just more talking?

(sigh) note that you did not specify what exact evidence you have in mind. you did not because the moment you say that word out loud the ridiculousness of it becomes obvious. let me help you. the evidence you request is called 'a miracle'. And no, i dont have such evidence because miracles do not exist. Whoever requires a miracle as an evidence lives in a childish la-la land.

 

There was a guy on this forum who after being duped by false teachers countless times (his admission) finally found the real mccoy  (wait for it) -  by witnessing a real teacher (who shall not be named) remotely  felling a cow in swiss alps (of all places). Whenever i need a giggle i go back to that story.

 

Actually that's one of the reasons i am on this forum: to gape in silent awe at the depths of human delusion and ninkompoopery for a while. Then i giggle.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Taoist Texts

[Taoist Texts]

11 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

We have members on this site who can faqi and fajin,

excellent!

Edited June 26, 2022 by Taoist Texts

[awaken]

井蛙應謂無龍窟，籬鶠爭知有鳳巢。

 

https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/悟真篇

 

張伯端又在這句話罵人了，可惜很多人都看不懂

 

Zhang Boduan is swearing again in this sentence, but unfortunately many people do not understand

 

The frog at the bottom of the well will say that there is no dragon cave in this world, how can the bird on the fence know that there is a nest with a phoenix?

 

這句話就是比喻無知愚蠢之人否認玄關竅的存在

 

在這個網站，我遇到太多這種人了

 

從張伯端的話來看，這種人一直都是存在的

 

This sentence is a metaphor for ignorant and stupid people who deny the existence of the Xuanguan orifice.

I have met too many people like this on this site

Judging from Zhang Boduan's words, this kind of person has always existed

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

8 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Hopefully the mods can categorize these threads where they belong though...I imagine for people looking from the outside in, they are far from welcoming.

This is my worry. When I first joined this site there were quite a lot of cool threads, but recently most threads have been created by her and even in the few not created by her she has gone in and said their methods are bad, their religions are wrong etc. If I came in at this time I would never come back. 

[awaken]

https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/井底之蛙

 

關於『井底之蛙』，很可惜維基百科沒有英文版的解說

 

這故事是來自於莊子秋水篇

 

 

Regarding "The Frog in the Well", it is a pity that Wikipedia does not have an English version of the explanation

This story is from Zhuangzi Autumn Water

 

在莊子稍後的《荀子·正論》中有「坎井之蛙」的說法，寫道「淺不足與測深，愚不足與謀知，坎井之蛙，不可與語東海之樂。」

 

莊子早就告訴我們，面對這種人該怎麼處理

 

In Zhuangzi's later "Xunzi Zheng Lun", there is a saying of "the frog in the Kanjing", and he wrote that "Too shallow can't measure depth, too stupid can't discuss wisdom with him, frog in the bottom of well, can't discuss the happiness of the East China Sea with him"

 

Zhuangzi has long told us how to deal with such a person

 

一個修行者不需要把自己搞成社交名媛

 

A cultivator does not need to make himself a socialite

Edited June 26, 2022 by awaken

[Vajra Fist]

16 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I think this conversation brings us to an interesting question: what is spiritual development?

 

Good question. On the traditional four path model, the general direction of travel appears to be toward a progressive lessening of the 'I'.

 

I think the farthest we can go on that scale in this life, is the point where personality material really stops exerting any sort of influence on behaviour, and the source of action is the unfiltered action of the unconditioned mind.

 

In that sense, having strong opinions, and an 'I'm right' attitude, would seem to me to go in the opposite direction to that.

 

Edit - I'm acutely aware of how this opinion negates itself, namely that these opinions I experience are subject to change or disappearing entirely. They not the territory itself.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Vajra Fist

[wandelaar]

8 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Hopefully the mods can categorize these threads where they belong though...I imagine for people looking from the outside in, they are far from welcoming.

 

Yes - that's the main problem! Any internet forum will have some unhelpful members, that's simply a fact of life we have to live with. But if nonsense, bragging and cursing starts setting the tone for the entire forum than potential new members will rather choose to stay away than to join us, that is: unless they like the toxic atmosphere. In time the forum will then spiral down the same dark road that all lightly moderated fora go.

 

I see Pak_Satrio pointed at the same problem. 

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Pak_Satrio said:

This is my worry. When I first joined this site there were quite a lot of cool threads, but recently most threads have been created by her and even in the few not created by her she has gone in and said their methods are bad, their religions are wrong etc. If I came in at this time I would never come back. 

 

And somehow, if I make a criticism, I'm the troublemaker--one of the mods even has the audacity to follow my posts and say that I always draw mod attention because I'm more likely to incite an argument (their words). A lot of "fighting words" here from everyone compared to what I've said on the matter.

[Wu Ming Jen]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

This is my worry. When I first joined this site there were quite a lot of cool threads, but recently most threads have been created by her and even in the few not created by her she has gone in and said their methods are bad, their religions are wrong etc. If I came in at this time I would never come back. 

I am out for a while. This whole Copy and paste the classics whith no discussion about it seems very odd to me.

 

I can read the classics all by my self but that is not why I am here.. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

 

 

One lst thing before I go. When awaken uses her own words they are very negitive. She is reflection her inner self onto others. These are her personal problems that she is dealing with and must go through and ovecome...... hopefully that is.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

18 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

I am out for a while. This whole Copy and paste the classics whith no discussion about it seems very odd to me.

 

I can read the classics all by my self but that is not why I am here.. 

That is a shame because I’ve enjoyed what you have brought to the discussion

[wandelaar]

@Earl Grey

 

What happened? I have been away for some time, but before that I always appreciated your posts as coming from one of the more knowledgeable members here although I didn't always agree with you. Why not just go on posting your own opinion on and/or experience with things as you used to do?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

8 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

@Earl Grey

 

What happened? I have been away for some time, but before that I always appreciated your posts as coming from one of the more knowledgeable members here although I didn't always agree with you. Why not just go on posting your own opinion on and/or experience with things as you used to do?

He keep getting banned for some reason. 

[Shadow_self]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

(sigh) note that you did not specify what exact evidence you have in mind. you did not because the moment you say that word out loud the ridiculousness of it becomes obvious. let me help you. the evidence you request is called 'a miracle'. And no, i dont have such evidence because miracles do not exist. Whoever requires a miracle as an evidence lives in a childish la-la land.

No miracle is needed whatsoever. If someone says that they have advanced spiritual and energetic development, the litmus test is a display of siddhi.

 

Now you can choose to ignore that if you so please. It won't change it.

 

So, I'll ask you again...evidence? Hopefully I have made it clear this time.

 

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

There was a guy on this forum who after being duped by false teachers countless times (his admission) finally found the real mccoy  (wait for it) -  by witnessing a real teacher (who shall not be named) remotely  felling a cow in swiss alps (of all places). Whenever i need a giggle i go back to that story.

 

I am really not interested in your anecdotes. I would prefer you to back up your claim please

 

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

Actually that's one of the reasons i am on this forum: to gape in silent awe at the depths of human delusion and ninkompoopery for a while. Then i giggle.

 

Really? Your post history suggests otherwise...but this isnt a discussion about you. I could care less about you. I am interested in the one plastering PPD material all over the main forum, and the claim you made about them...So lets stick to that please

[wandelaar]

24 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

I am out for a while. This whole Copy and paste the classics whith no discussion about it seems very odd to me.

 

I can read the classics all by my self but that is not why I am here.. 

 

Better start some new topics with discussions about the classics. If it's about the TTC, Chuang tzu, Lieh tzu or even Confucius' Analects than I would be happy to participate. That would be a more positive, constructive solution to the problem. Let me know...

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

No miracle is needed whatsoever. If someone says that they have advanced spiritual and energetic development, the litmus test is a display of siddhi.

 

Now you can choose to ignore that if you so please. It won't change it.

 

So, I'll ask you again...evidence? Hopefully I have made it clear this time.

Any sort of evidence please, there doesn’t have to be a team of scientists with measuring equipment present. I want to see the difference between pure refined qi and my polluted smelly transfer method qigong broker qi.

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Better start some new topics with discussions about the classics. If it's about the TTC, Chuang tzu, Lieh tzu or even Confucius' Analects than I would be happy to participate. That would be a more positive, constructive solution to the problem. Let me know...

I second this, please @Wu Ming Jen start a new thread with the things you discussed on here, I’m interested in reading and learning more.

[wandelaar]

10 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

He keep getting banned for some reason. 

 

Weird!

[Taoist Texts]

13 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Whoever requires a miracle as an evidence lives in a childish la-la land.

No miracle is needed whatsoever. If someone says that they have advanced spiritual and energetic development, the litmus test is a display of siddhi.

ahahaha oh man, this is hilarious. this is what the samsara looks like. when you find any siddhi pls let us know.  preferably in this kalpa but my guess not.

 

(damn i forgot! we can always go check out that swiss cow! maybe the Brooklyn bridge as well?)

Edited June 26, 2022 by Taoist Texts

[Shadow_self]

13 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

ahahaha oh man, this is hilarious. this is what the samsara looks like. when you find any siddhi pls let us know.  preferably in this kalpa but my guess not.

 

(damn i forgot! we can always go check out that swiss cow! maybe the Brooklyn bridge as well?)

 

So you have no evidence to back up your claim. Alright then

 

Im glad we got here.

[liminal_luke]

8 hours ago, awaken said:

 

 

Your advice is, even if I ignore that person, I don't say it, right?

This is very good, I will try this in the future, it should work better

 

我認為我還是把那些人想得太善良了

我原來的想法是，我已經不想跟你講了，請你也不要跟我講

我以為這些人會跟我印象中優雅的西方人一樣，知道進退

但是那些人的邪惡程度比我想的還要嚴重許多

即使我跟他說我不想跟他說了，他還是一直騷擾我

所以我覺得我低估了這些人的邪惡程度，是我的失算

 

But those people are far more evil than I thought

He kept harassing me even though I told him I didn't want to tell him

So I think it's my miscalculation that I underestimated how evil these people are

 

Yes, I suggest that if you are going to ignore someone that you don't say it.  Just ignore them.  Thank you for being open to this suggestion.

 

I also suggest that you don't say that any members here are evil or tell anyone (other than your students) that they are practicing wrong -- even if you know you are right.  People get mad and want to ban you from posting in the general areas.  It would be ashame if a good student didn't learn about your teaching because you were no longer able to post.

 

LL

Edited June 26, 2022 by liminal_luke

[awaken]

58 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Yes, I suggest that if you are going to ignore someone that you don't say it.  Just ignore them.  Thank you for being open to this suggestion.

 

I also suggest that you don't say that any members here are evil or tell anyone (other than your students) that they are practicing wrong -- even if you know you are right.  People get mad and want to ban you from posting in the general areas.  It would be ashame if a good student didn't learn about your teaching because you were no longer able to post.

 

LL

 

我沒有說每個人都很邪惡

我是說我低估了某些人的邪惡

 

I didn't say everyone is evil

I mean I underestimate the evil of some people

 

我知道很多人在霸凌我

想阻止我說出更多真話

因為這些真話影響了他們的利益

謝謝你的提醒

但是這是悟真篇的討論主題，請你根據悟真篇的內容來討論

你對我個人的建議，請用私訊的方式，感謝你的熱心

 

I know a lot of people are bullying me

Want to stop me from telling more truth

Because these truths affect their interests

thanks for your reminder

But this is the discussion topic of Wuzhen chapter, please discuss according to the content of Wuzhen chapter

Your personal suggestion to me, please use private message, thank you for your enthusiasm

 

 

 

 

 

 

[awaken]

 

 

我找了很久才找到一個有英文翻譯的故事

 

I searched for a long time to find a story with an English translation

 

井底之蛙的故事是莊子所說的，卻成為小孩子的童話故事

 

小孩子從小就被教導要往更寬廣的世界看，不要限制在自己的狹小範圍之內

 

但是莊子所說的不只是這樣的哲學，因為道家修煉本身跟次第高度相關，如果沒有達到一定的程度，那是絕對不可能了解對方的說法的

 

The story of the frog in the well was told by Zhuangzi, but it became a fairy tale for children

Children are taught from an early age to see the wider world, not to limit themselves to their own narrow scope

But what Zhuangzi said is not just such a philosophy, because Taoist cultivation itself is highly related to order. If it does not reach a certain level, it is absolutely impossible to understand the other party's statement.

 

張伯端的說法主要是講很多人無法了解烏肝和兔髓狀態下的玄關

 

就像是井底之蛙一樣，無法了解東海的寬廣

 

 

Zhang Boduan's statement is mainly to say that many people cannot understand the Xiuan Guang of black liver and rabbit marrow.

Like a frog at the bottom of a well, unable to understand the vastness of the East China Sea

Edited June 26, 2022 by awaken