The reason why a person who only has qi in his lower abdomen can't understand the WuZenPian

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, 鞏三孝 said:

her subjectivity, in this case, anger and hatred to people

the rumor has it there was one teacher who heaped abuse on his students so angry and hateful he was. he beat them insulted them demeaned them humiliated them to no end. he was a bad bad teacher. if only the history would preserve his name or if he founded some petty taoist sect or something, then we would know his name. uggh what a horrible teacher he was anyway, i am almost clutching my pearls!

 

or i vaguely remember another one. student standing in snow for days, cutting of his hand. so much anger and hatred! i bet he is deservedly forgotten. and if not lets get together and cancel him! because where is the kindness right?

 

 

[Cobie]

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

… student standing in snow for days … where is the kindness right?

 

Legend has it that Bodhidharma initially refused to teach Huike. Huike stood in the snow outside Bodhidharma's cave all night, until the snow reached his waist. In the morning Bodhidharma asked him why he was there. Huike replied that he wanted a teacher to "open the gate of the elixir of universal compassion to liberate all beings". Bodhidharma refused, saying, "how can you hope for true religion with little virtue, little wisdom, a shallow heart, and an arrogant mind? It would just be a waste of effort. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazu_Huike 

[Cobie]

Teachers choose to humiliate students for several reasons: to gain control over them, because the teacher is desperate; to frighten other students; or because they're over-compensating for their own lack of confidence. (Google)
 

Edit: I personally think anyone that is unkind to a student is not a teacher.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

19 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

the rumor has it there was one teacher who heaped abuse on his students so angry and hateful he was. he beat them insulted them demeaned them humiliated them to no end. he was a bad bad teacher. if only the history would preserve his name or if he founded some petty taoist sect or something, then we would know his name. uggh what a horrible teacher he was anyway, i am almost clutching my pearls!

Which one is this?  I couldn’t find this one online.

[Taoist Texts]

11 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Teachers choose to humiliate students for several reasons: to gain control over them, because the teacher is desperate; to frighten other students; or because they're over-compensating for their own lack of confidence. (Google)

yes thats exactly what happens. as they say 'Google knows best'

[Cobie]

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes thats exactly what happens. as they say 'Google knows best'

I can’t tell if you mean this or are being sarcastic. 

[C T]

12 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Teachers choose to humiliate students for several reasons: to gain control over them, because the teacher is desperate; to frighten other students; or because they're over-compensating for their own lack of confidence. (Google)

 

In the old world maybe, before boundaries became a thing. Not saying it doesn't still happen - perhaps its still a common MO in cults -but such is it that the world today, or rather, the condition of it, with folks being more discernible and intelligently informed, such tactics (i like the term 'bents') are rarely accepted as 'part of the process of ground clearing'. While those who meekly accept being labeled 'evil' and 'smelly', and other unwarranted insults, or those who consciously choose to endorse a self-proclaimed adept by disregarding such mannerisms, convincing themselves they're somehow justified, are equally bent. These enablers must override helluva lot of conscience, even common sense, to make such a foolish assertion. 

[Taoist Texts]

24 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Which one is this?  I couldn’t find this one online.

i will tell you in a bit. lets wait and see if the taoist police with all their teachers knows haha

10 minutes ago, Cobie said:

can’t tell if you mean this or are being sarcastic.

eh just sarcastic, sorry man

 

[Cobie]

32 minutes ago, C T said:

… enablers …

I quoted Google to show what’s wrong with it. Thanks for showing that was unclear, I have edited the post now. 
https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53724-the-reason-why-a-person-who-only-has-qi-in-his-lower-abdomen-cant-understand the-wuzenpian/?do=findComment&comment=986518

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

48 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

i will tell you in a bit. lets wait and see if the taoist police with all their teachers knows haha

Righto.

 

Quote

eh just sarcastic, sorry man

 

That’s alright. Confusion rooted in my post, edited now

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53724-the-reason-why-a-person-who-only-has-qi-in-his-lower-abdomen-cant-understand the-wuzenpian/?do=findComment&comment=986518

 

Quote

 

I just loved the first season. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Cobie

[Taoist Texts]

18 hours ago, Cobie said:

Which one is this?  I couldn’t find this one online.

this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Chongyang

 

he founded 90% of the real taoism. which has nothing to do with the western role playing. he did it by abusing his students 24/7.  tellingly you would not find a single mention of it in the wiki. it his hilarious that the western role players pretend to be his followers while decrying 'anger and hatred'. hard to say it is hypocrisy  or ignorance.  heck probably most of the 'taoists' never even heard his name.

[Cobie]

22 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

… tellingly you would not find a single mention of it in the wiki. …

How do you know about it?

[Cobie]

39 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

… has nothing to do with the western role playing.

 

This does not surprise me at all.
Reading the DDJ from characters, I find huge differences with the PWT * interpretation of it. 
~~~
* Popular Western Taoism

 

P.S. I am not sure what “role playing” means in this context. I took it to mean ‘they’re fakes, pretending to be Taoists’.

 

Quote

… hard to say it is hypocrisy  or ignorance. …

Yes that’s interesting, I wonder. Possibly also ‘wishful thinking’? Maybe political influences? IDK

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Chongyang

 

he founded 90% of the real taoism.

I see he lived in the 12th century. So “real taoism” is outside of my main area of interest (reading the oldest DDJ transcripts). But it does interest me that PWT sometimes uses things for almost the opposite meaning. 
 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

57 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

… he founded 90% of the real taoism. … he did it by abusing his students 24/7. …

Yes, unfortunately a lot of the big changes in history came from violent enforcement. E.g. the first emperor. 
 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Cobie

[wandelaar]

Why waist any more time on Awaken or Taoist Texts? The kind of brutal Taoism they promote simply isn't worth the effort, at least not from a modern western perspective. Taoism is a very broad current and anyone claiming to represent the only real Taoism is therefore simply wrong. Awaken and Taoist Texts are perfect examples of the fundamentalist intolerance combined with spiritual arrogance that often follows on too much learning. A sad sight.

 

I had some discussions with Taoist Texts before and although he indeed knows a lot about Taoist texts his logic is ludicrous and not up to the task. See this:

 

Quote

it his hilarious that the western role players pretend to be his followers while decrying 'anger and hatred'. hard to say it is hypocrisy  or ignorance.  heck probably most of the 'taoists' never even heard his name.

 

Are we to believe that most western role playing "taoists" pretend to follow someone of whom they never even heard his name?

 

I better move on.

Edited June 28, 2022 by wandelaar

[Taoist Texts]

33 minutes ago, Cobie said:

How do you know about it?

i am a professional, not a role-player. so i do my own research.

[Cobie]

1 minute ago, Taoist Texts said:

i am a professional, not a role-player. so i do my own research.

I don’t doubt it.   I am interested to briefly hear some of your main sources.

[Taoist Texts]

15 minutes ago, Cobie said:

I don’t doubt it.   I am interested to briefly hear some of your main sources.

https://www.persee.fr/doc/befeo_0336-1519_1981_num_69_1_3361

 

pages 159-160

[C T]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Chongyang

 

he founded 90% of the real taoism. which has nothing to do with the western role playing. he did it by abusing his students 24/7.  tellingly you would not find a single mention of it in the wiki. it his hilarious that the western role players pretend to be his followers while decrying 'anger and hatred'. hard to say it is hypocrisy  or ignorance.  heck probably most of the 'taoists' never even heard his name.

 

Evidently that dark cloud from the 12th century is still looming large here on TDB today. No surprise. Karma is indeed a wonderful thing. If more Taoist practitioners subscribe to enabling abuse, or are themselves abusers, this dark mass will just gather more darkness till it eventually seeps into the marrows of contemporary adherents. Seems like it already has to some extent. I sure hope TDB is not condoning any suggestions that abuse is a necessary form of teaching, because this is clearly a warped, deviant view. 

 

@zerostao @steve

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

40 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

I better move on.

The most sensible thing said in this thread

[Cobie]

6 minutes ago, C T said:

... any suggestions that abuse is a necessary form of teaching … is clearly a warped, deviant view. 

 

I agree with this.

[C T]

2 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

The most sensible thing said in this thread

 

Really, I thought I did already

[Cobie]

41 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

https://www.persee.fr/doc/befeo_0336-1519_1981_num_69_1_3361

 

pages 159-160

Thank you very much, especially for giving the relevant page numbers. 

Seems to be an excellent source https://www.persee.fr/collection/befeo 

“Wang Zhe’s  violent and eccentric ways with his disciples became legendary.” 

 

[Wang Zhe = Wang Zhong fu = Wang Chong yang]

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

… Awaken or Taoist Texts? The kind of brutal Taoism they promote …

Do they?

 

That’s not how I read it.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Cobie