Sadhguru on the cause of violence and its solution

[Ajay0]

Insightful article by Sadhguru on the cause of violence and its solution...

https://isha.sadhguru.org/us/en/wisdom/article/violence-cause-solutions

 

Quote

 

Look at yourself as an individual and see how many moments in a day do you feel you simply cannot stand the person sitting next to you? Trying to hold yourself back is going to work only for a certain period of time. It is bound to explode somewhere when certain situations allow it because the violence is within the human being. That is the violence that needs to be attended to. If we do not put out the fires within the human being, you cannot put out the fires on the street. Today or tomorrow it will light up again.

We need to understand that a human being is enormous energy and tremendous potential. If he doesn’t find expression to his energies and harness and direct them properly, he will invariably perform violent acts. Violence does not necessarily mean you go out and kill someone. You are angry, you are irritated, you cannot sit still – this is violence. If we do not root it out from its innermost core, peace will not happen. The science of Yoga is just this: learning to harness and direct your energies in the right way, so that who you are finds its ultimate expression. If you do not allow this energy which you call as life to find its expression, it naturally tries to find its way out in violent ways. ~ Sadhguru

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

But how is this advice meant to stop war or violent crime? Did a soldier massacre a village of innocent civilians because he's not directing his energy in the right way? Is a hungry street kid who beats up a stranger to steal his wallet not finding his ultimate expression?

[thelerner]

25 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

But how is this advice meant to stop war or violent crime? Did a soldier massacre a village of innocent civilians because he's not directing his energy in the right way? Is a hungry street kid who beats up a stranger to steal his wallet not finding his ultimate expression?

nahh, I don't think they'll be dropping slips of paper with that advice on war zones. 

I think its best affect is on thoughtful readers who come to understand that the roots of their aggressiveness lie in restlessness; little irritations, that they are the 'grit' that the match of violence is struck against. 

 

That's us personally.  Gaining enough awareness and inner peace to control and lessen our worst instincts.  The big problems, war crimes, general crimes, require big, indepth, long intensive solutions.  From citizen to war criminal there's alot of dominoes being pushed over.  To prevent the soldier massacre requires better recruitment, better training, better support, clear goals, rule of engagement and punishments and rewards for following them correctly. 

 

Ending the kid's violence begins before he was born.  Better social safety net to keep kids out of desperation. Parental education, outreach.. etc.,  Social network to educate the kid and make sure he has a meal.  Within the layers of needed help, Sadhguru's advice is excellent because the social services have a high burnout rate.

 

One of the Aikido students we had joined because they were guidance counselors and hoped Aikido, as a less violent martial art, would help them deal with parents and situations where they wanted to punch people out.  I think it did. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vajra Fist]

My teacher often points to this story told by Carl Jung. 

 

 

Quote

 

There was a great drought where [Richard] Wilhelm lived; for months there had not been a drop of rain and the situation became catastrophic. The Catholics made processions, the Protestants made prayers, and the Chinese burned joss-sticks and shot off guns to frighten away the demons of the drought, but with no result.

 

Finally, the Chinese said, ‘We will fetch the rain-maker.’ And from another province a dried up old man appeared. The only thing he asked for was a quiet little house somewhere, and there he locked himself in for three days.

 

On the fourth day the clouds gathered and there was a great snow-storm at the time of the year when no snow was expected, an unusual amount, and the town was so full of rumours about the wonderful rain-maker that Wilhelm went to ask the man how he did it.

In true European fashion he said: ‘They call you the rain-maker; will you tell me how you made the snow?’

 

And the rain-maker said: ‘I did not make the snow; I am not responsible.’

 

‘But what have you done these three days?’

 

‘Oh, I can explain that. I come from another country where things are in order. Here they are out of order; they are not as they should be by the ordinance of heaven. Therefore, the whole country is not in Tao, and I also am not in the natural order of things because I am in a disordered country.

 

So, I had to wait three days until I was back in Tao and then naturally the rain came.’[2]

 

 

 

[Shadao]

While I like to see these spiritual/insightful posts, I have to admit that to me the answers to the cause of violence are much more mundane.

 

For one, it is humanity's inherent nature(of some or many) to always desire more and more.It isn't enought to have enough to live a relatively comfortable and happy life, there are those that also seek to get "more than their share" and actually deprive others of "their fair share".

 

So...selfishness?Greed?

 

Then we mix that with both the incompetence and corruption of management of resources(food, water, people, money...) of entire countries.Which only adds a very complex and heavy layer to the problem.

 

Finally we add "artificial separations".People do it all the time, separate each other through petty means like "skin color", "religion", "sexuality"...they don't seek to unity all under a mutual respect, they separate themselves into cliques and force a "us vs them" mindset.

Which tends to create people with extremely narrowed vision and willing to do anything to make THEIR GROUP the one in control.

 

If it's already hard to deal with a group of people the size of a class, imagine having to deal with it all the size of a world?

No wonder violence still hasn't ended.

[Vajra Fist]

 .

Edited June 13, 2022 by Vajra Fist

[Cobie]

On 11/06/2022 at 11:43 AM, Ajay0 said:

... Sadhguru on the cause of violence and its solution...

 Well that is ironic, as some say he murdered his wife. https://sadhgurukilledhiswife.wordpress.com/ 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Cobie

[doc benway]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:47 PM, Shadao said:

If it's already hard to deal with a group of people the size of a class, imagine having to deal with it all the size of a world?

 

And as our population grows it’s likely to only get worse. Humanity behaves like a cancer on the face of our Mother - growth out of control, stealing resources from and choking off all other species, potentially destroying our host or at least rendering Her uninhabitable. It seems to be quite an accurate analogy and sad.

[Ajay0]

On 6/14/2022 at 2:23 AM, Cobie said:

 Well that is ironic, as some say he murdered his wife. https://sadhgurukilledhiswife.wordpress.com/ 

 

 

 

Sadhguru's wife Vijayakumari gave up her physical body through mahasamadhi in 1999. Her interest in Mahasamadhi came up after hearing a talk over the subject by a saint they had met in a forest.

 

Even though Sadhguru discouraged her then, she went through the process and attained enlightenment and Mahasamadhi .

This happened in front of many disciples and people.

 

Since Vijayakumari was relatively young, her parents who were obviously concerned of her wellbeing and not knowing the intricacies of mahasamadhi, could not accept her physical death and filed murder charges to bring more scrutiny over her death.

 

The police however after investigation stated Sadhguru to be innocent of any wrongdoing. This happened way back in 1999, but is usually taken up by people focused on the negatives.

 

Vijayakumari led a dream life with Sadhguru , who often took her in his adventure trips and motorbiking expeditions throughout the country.

 

Both of them were not born in a background of yogic culture and had led fairly materialistic and secular lives, till Sadhguru's experience of enlightenment on Chamundi Hill on Mysore.

 
Sadhguru had also spoken of his wife's experience of Mahasamadhi here...

 

https://isha.sadhguru.org/us/en/sadhguru/man/vijji

An enlightened master had stated to me that most people who attain enlightenment leave the body consciously. It's not that they are embracing death but are embracing life at a much more conscious and blissful level. He told me that it is those who have previous impressions or tendencies of compassion, as well as having articulate communication skills, who usually remain in the body so as to share their experiences and teachings, and show the path to others as well.

Buddha had himself left his body though Mahasamadhi after he found that his body was old and damaged by disease beyond repair, and had stated his intentions to his disciples as well as final instructions.

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti , after getting diagnosed as having pancreatic cancer at 90, similarly ended his talks and lectures , citing his lack of fitness for the same, and after communicating his decision to leave his body through mahasamadhi to his close friends and associates, gave up his body. This is stated in the biography 'The Light of Krishnamurti' by his friend and associate Gabriele Blackburn.

[Cobie]

It is my opinion that Sadhguru murdered his wife after lengthy abuse of her.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Cobie

[Ajay0]

1 minute ago, Cobie said:

Imo he murdered her. 

 

 Well, I am glad that he murdered her though Mahasamadhi and not with assault guns.

[Cobie]

1 minute ago, Ajay0 said:

Well, I am glad that he murdered her …

Enough said.

[Ajay0]

On 6/11/2022 at 7:58 PM, Pak_Satrio said:

But how is this advice meant to stop war or violent crime? Did a soldier massacre a village of innocent civilians because he's not directing his energy in the right way? Is a hungry street kid who beats up a stranger to steal his wallet not finding his ultimate expression?

 

 A soldier massacring innocent civilians will be violating his ethical duties as a soldier, and would be a murderer instead.

 

I have cited the likes of Buddha, Anandamayi Ma , Rajini Menon who have stated that ethical and virtuous conduct is potent enough to attain enlightenment.

 

 

 

A hungry street kid stealing and robbing would highlight poor governance and dereliction of duty by the regions administrators resulting in lack of prosperity and crime.

 

In the Hindu scriptures, it is said that an administrator who brings all-round prosperity and peace to his region begets more spiritual merit than a number of saints, and can attain heavenly states and enlightenment faster.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Ajay0

[Ajay0]

On 6/12/2022 at 7:17 AM, Shadao said:

While I like to see these spiritual/insightful posts, I have to admit that to me the answers to the cause of violence are much more mundane.

 

For one, it is humanity's inherent nature(of some or many) to always desire more and more.It isn't enought to have enough to live a relatively comfortable and happy life, there are those that also seek to get "more than their share" and actually deprive others of "their fair share".

 

So...selfishness?Greed?

 

Then we mix that with both the incompetence and corruption of management of resources(food, water, people, money...) of entire countries.Which only adds a very complex and heavy layer to the problem.

 

Finally we add "artificial separations".People do it all the time, separate each other through petty means like "skin color", "religion", "sexuality"...they don't seek to unity all under a mutual respect, they separate themselves into cliques and force a "us vs them" mindset.

Which tends to create people with extremely narrowed vision and willing to do anything to make THEIR GROUP the one in control.

 

If it's already hard to deal with a group of people the size of a class, imagine having to deal with it all the size of a world?

No wonder violence still hasn't ended.

 

 

 Yes, needs and greed/cravings are separate from each other.

Gandhi himself had stated , " Earth has enough to satisfy every man's needs, but not every man's greed."

Strong desires in the form of cravings and aversions are what creates this restlesness within the human psyche, which Sadhguru equates with violence.

There are many who resort to crime to satisfy their cravings, even though their basic needs are met.   Cravings obstructed, can lead to great stress and negativity, which also results in violence and disorder.

 

 Today I came across a saying of the Islamic saint and scholar Ali Ibn Talib...

' One who rushes madly after inordinate desire, runs the risk of encountering destruction and death.'  Ali ibn Abi Talib

But the society we live in is deeply conditioned by the advertising industry which imprints desires within us for products which we may not even need. The message such ads seemingly imparts is that having their product makes one a winner in life , with the rest being losers.

 

Obviously such messages puts a lot of pressure in vulnerable, impressionable minds who measure their self-esteem with the acquisition of such products even if they do not necessarily need it.

 

The sight of one who has a mansion, fleet of expensive cars,helicopters and private jets, and all the connotations of wealth and status in society,  can create similar cravings in other people with adverse results.

 

And since modern society worships its rich celebrities and icons rather than sages or saints, we are creating a potentially violent society in the process.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Ajay0

[Vajra Fist]

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

And since modern society worships its rich celebrities and icons rather than sages or saints

 

I think there's probably already too many people who worship 'sadhguru'.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

 A soldier massacring innocent civilians will be violating his ethical duties as a soldier, and would be a murderer instead.

 

 

That’s implying there are ethical duties as a soldier. You would be naive to think that war is a noble activity.

 

3 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

A hungry street kid stealing and robbing would highlight poor governance and dereliction of duty by the regions administrators resulting in lack of prosperity and crime.

So the street kid is completely innocent and blameless for their violent crimes? It’s all the administrator’s fault?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

But the society we live in is deeply conditioned by the advertising industry which imprints desires within us for products which we may not even need. The message such ads seemingly imparts is that having their product makes one a winner in life , with the rest being losers.

 

Obviously such messages puts a lot of pressure in vulnerable, impressionable minds who measure their self-esteem with the acquisition of such products even if they do not necessarily need it.

 

The sight of one who has a mansion, fleet of expensive cars,helicopters and private jets, and all the connotations of wealth and status in society,  can create similar cravings in other people with adverse results.

 

And since modern society worships its rich celebrities and icons rather than sages or saints, we are creating a potentially violent society in the process.

Just like Sadhguru’s big mansions, sports cars and jets?

 

 

[Shadao]

18 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

But the society we live in is deeply conditioned by the advertising industry which imprints desires within us for products which we may not even need. The message such ads seemingly imparts is that having their product makes one a winner in life , with the rest being losers.

Honestly I'm part of the group that thinks "As long as I can have a comfortable life without anything missing(i.e. the necessities for survival and a minimum of comfort), I'm happy with what I have".

 

I use stuff until I can no longer use them, and even then I try to "push some more use" before I have to accept to buy something new.

Literally, I had to buy new flip flops recently because the previous pair snapped and even using duct tape only delayed the inevitable. 

 

And no, I'm not a cheapskate. 

19 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

The sight of one who has a mansion, fleet of expensive cars,helicopters and private jets, and all the connotations of wealth and status in society,  can create similar cravings in other people with adverse results.

Honestly, I find people that like to show such things a bit tacky.

 

I mean, there's no problem to want to show the wealth you got through your work(as long as you do it from a "I'm happy I can finally get/do this" point rather than a "HAH!Get jealous of me, suckers!" one).

 

But I know that most people doing this either:

-inherited said wealth rather than worked for it(which is the case of many of those "rich kids of instagram" and "influencers")

-got it through underhanded means

-are portraying to be wealthy all for their image, but they aren't actually wealthy

 

17 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

I think there's probably already too many people who worship 'sadhguru'.

"Worship" in a metaphorical way or literally, as if he was a deity?

 

16 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

That’s implying there are ethical duties as a soldier

As far as I know, a soldier's only "ethic" is "follow the orders".

 

14 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Just like Sadhguru’s big mansions, sports cars and jets?

 

Yeah, I have to admit that I find it both hilarious and annoying how many of these self-entitled gurus, masters, leaders and such like to seem spiritual but then we get hit by their massive wealth.

 

I know, I know, one can be spiritual even when having money...but making money by being spiritual seems a bit...hypocritical in my opinion.

[Ajay0]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:30 PM, Vajra Fist said:

 

I think there's probably already too many people who worship 'sadhguru'.

 

 Well, an enlightened master is considered auspicious and worthy of reverence in eastern philosophy. In the yoga vasistha, it is stated that satsang or company of an enlightened one is considered to be one of the four swiftest ways to enlightenment, the others being contentment, self-control and self-inquiry.

 

Sadhguru has not set himself as a deity to worship but has focussed on creating mechanisms to serve people to unveil the Self or Buddha nature within themselves.

 

He is indeed invited to intellectual forums throughout the world for his critical insights.

 

With respect to your statement, I would say I wish you were actually correct, and too many people around the world indeed revered Sadhguru, as this would mean that his teachings would have made the necessary impact to create a better world and future.

 

Imo, the world's present trajectory is headed towards certain disaster.

[Ajay0]

On 6/18/2022 at 6:16 PM, Pak_Satrio said:

 

That’s implying there are ethical duties as a soldier. You would be naive to think that war is a noble activity.

 

 

When Hitler unleashed his murderous forces around the world, he obviously had to be stopped. Even many German soldiers during WW 2 committed suicide as their orders to kill civilians conflicted with their moral conscience and code of conduct.

In the context of a policeman, if he did not perform the duties of patrolling a violent street or neighborhood out of cowardice, it will result in higher crime rates and violence.

 

 

Quote

So the street kid is completely innocent and blameless for their violent crimes? It’s all the administrator’s fault?

 

It can also be the civil society's fault if the kid or his family is a victim of discrimination and hence lacks the rights to education or employment and so on.

[Ajay0]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:01 PM, Pak_Satrio said:

Just like Sadhguru’s big mansions, sports cars and jets?

 

 

 

 

 

 This youtube is in Hindi, a language I know.

 

I went through the whole video, but could not find any reference to a fleet of expensive cars, private jets , mansions, expensive suits and jewellery.

 

Reference is mostly about Sadhguru's motorbikes but he is a motorbiking enthusiast from his youth.

 

His automobiles are used extensively for transportation purposes for his projects .

 

He is a licensed pilot with a helicopter of his own which he uses for better time management and which corresponds to his needs and requirements.

 

https://isha.sadhguru.org/in/en/sadhguru/man/sadhguru-flies-helicopter

 

 

 To put the record straight, Sadhguru was already a successful businessman in the construction industry and agriculture, before he ventured into spirituality.

 

But even then he never flaunted his wealth or displayed egoism , and treated everyone as equals and with fraternal affection and readily  appreciated the virtues of those who were not as well-off as he was.

 

As an adventurer who rode motorbikes  all over India and the world and even in jungles, he led mostly a spartan lifestyle and slept on the bare ground in many occasions wherever he found himself .

 

Since his childhood he was also a nature activist who personally caught highly dangerous snakes like vipers, cobras and king cobras which had ventured into urban areas, and released them back in jungles, while grown men around him were frozen nerveless in terror.

 

Sadhguru has a world record in his name for planting saplings in his efforts for ecological preservation.

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/over-8-lakh-trees-planted-in-one-day-in-tn/articleshow/2191748.cms

On 17th October, 2006, 256,289 volunteers working on 6284 sites spread across Tamil Nadu planted a record number of 852,587 saplings in a single day.

 

He has similarly worked and executed other nature related projects in India and around the world and has created awareness on them through his talks and discussion sessions.

I had found his talks on the subject very informative, and got an interesting insight that a certain mountainous region which he and his volunteers had turned into lush forests had also recorded a marked decrease in temperature levels.

This takes a lot of significance considering the unprecedented heatwaves that is plaguing the world , with the 2021 Canada heatwave resulting in over 600 heat related deaths.

 

The rich and powerful who are regulated by a good value system is obviously an asset to the world, and the Hindu scriptures also emphasize that the virtuous, charitable and yogic householder is superior the sannyasin or monk.

 

Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism, had stated that earning a living though honest and fair means in remembrance of God, and performing charity with the same is the greatest austerity,  and such a one does not have to perform any other rituals.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Ajay0

[Vajra Fist]

Teachers are necessary when you get serious about the path. 

* they are available to work with you one on one, and in those personal discussions can point directly to your own nature when you're lost

* they genuinely care about you, and in that sense rarely charge at all, least of all excessively, and mostly through donation

* they have been verified to teach by a lineage master, rather than by what they claim about their own attainments.

* they fall more into the category of 'spiritual friend', as the buddha described it, rather than 'incarnation of god'

If all those are true about sadhguru then I wish you well.

[Ajay0]

55 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Teachers are necessary when you get serious about the path. 

* they are available to work with you one on one, and in those personal discussions can point directly to your own nature when you're lost

* they genuinely care about you, and in that sense rarely charge at all, least of all excessively, and mostly through donation

* they have been verified to teach by a lineage master, rather than by what they claim about their own attainments.

* they fall more into the category of 'spiritual friend', as the buddha described it, rather than 'incarnation of god'

If all those are true about sadhguru then I wish you well.

 

 All these are well and good in older times.

 

But I would like to ask who is the lineage master who verified that the Buddha is fit to teach, notwithstanding his claims of enlightenment or Nirvana !

Edited June 20, 2022 by Ajay0

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

When Hitler unleashed his murderous forces around the world, he obviously had to be stopped. Even many German soldiers during WW 2 committed suicide as their orders to kill civilians conflicted with their moral conscience and code of conduct.

 

Were British pilots bombing civilians in Dresden or American pilots dropping the nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki performing their ethical duties?

 

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 To put the record straight, Sadhguru was already a successful businessman in the construction industry and agriculture, before he ventured into spirituality.

 

But even then he never flaunted his wealth or displayed egoism , and treated everyone as equals and with fraternal affection and readily  appreciated the virtues of those who were not as well-off as he was.

 

You only have to look at his pictures to see his expensive cars, bikes and watches. He has a net worth of $25 million USD according to this site: (https://networthdekho.com/sadhguru-net-worth-biography/#:~:text=Johar with Sadhguru-,Sadhguru Net Worth 2021%3A,Indian Rupees – ₹182 crore) 

 

The question is, why hoard all of this wealth when it can do so much good, especially in a country like India where there is so much poverty and inequality?

[Ajay0]

42 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Were British pilots bombing civilians in Dresden or American pilots dropping the nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki performing their ethical duties?

 

So are you saying that the policeman should not patrol as it is unethical, or that we should not kill harmful viruses or bacteria in the body as it is unethical !
 

Quote

You only have to look at his pictures to see his expensive cars, bikes and watches. He has a net worth of $25 million USD according to this site: (https://networthdekho.com/sadhguru-net-worth-biography/#:~:text=Johar with Sadhguru-,Sadhguru Net Worth 2021%3A,Indian Rupees – ₹182 crore) 

 

The question is, why hoard all of this wealth when it can do so much good, especially in a country like India where there is so much poverty and inequality?

 

 

 Again, where are photographs of Sadhguru's fleet of cars and private jets and mansions !  I have not seen them .

 

Also I stated that he was a successful businessman even before he ventured into spirituality.

 

https://www.americanbazaaronline.com/2022/06/16/indias-billionaires-set-to-grow-by-80-over-next-decade-449955/

 

India at present is the fastest growing economy on earth, and is minting billionaires and milionaires in dollar terms with each passing day.

 

With his kind of brains and critical insights in varied subjects as well as tireless energy, it is possible that Sadhguru could have been a billionaire himself if he stayed on as a businessman without venturing into spirituality.

 

 Much of his wealth is ploughed back into ecological conservation projects that I had mentioned and which he is passionate about.

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Ajay0