Qi Gong Keeps Making Me Manic

[darkflame]

So I have recently begun practicing spring forest qi gong, and I am encountering the same issue that made me leave kriya yoga.

It seems to drive energy upward way more than my body can take.

I do not have bipolar but because of my experiences with herbalism/psychedelics' I have experienced pretty much every altered state there is. And the closest thing I can compare what qi gong and kriya yoga do to me is mild mania + anxiety.

Because I am very experienced with tcm it is easy for me to get rid of these symptoms (descend yang, drive qi downward, and purge fire for those wondering).

But I feel as though I shouldn't have to be taking herbs just to maintain such an early level of practice. I am literally just doing the first module of level 1 spring forest qi gong.

I think I need to explore an entirely different approach to energy work, because these forms that invigorate qi through the channels are just not for me.

I have heard someone mention "water movements" but I have no idea what these are, I am new to all of this.

I think part of the problem is I am already and extremely creative, mentally driven person. I live in my mind and there is already so much energy in the upper jiao that when I begin moving qi it rapidly overloads me. Where someone else might benefit from ascending yang/qi and find it energizing I find it far too much. If I were to practice qi gong for multiple hours a day without taking herbs I would quickly go insane. I imagine this is what happens to those who experience qi gong psychosis, I am able to recognize it early though because of being able to read my body energetics through herbalism. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

How do you end your qigong sessions? My teacher recommends ending with at least 10 minutes of seated stillness meditation to bring the qi downwards to your lower dantien.

[Shadao]

5 hours ago, darkflame said:

I am already and extremely creative, mentally driven person

I think I'm somewhat the same, I was said many times as a kid that I had "an artist's mind"(still don't know if this is a good or bad thing) and I tend to daydream and be introspective a lot.

 

Honestly, aside a creative medium(drawing, writing, making mock ups...) the only way I find to get my head clear is by doing a physical activity, preferably with a lot of movement.While I am moving, I don't have to think, I just "am" or just "do" what I have/want to do.

 

It can be as simple as just swaying in one place, shadow boxing or running around at full speed(sprinting).

 

Sorry for this mild digression.

 

5 hours ago, darkflame said:

If I were to practice qi gong for multiple hours a day without taking herbs I would quickly go insane

Why not try to separate you practice in sessions and do high intensity activities between each session?Even before doing the first one, go spend your energy into working out, dancing or just moving around a lot.

 

Just an idea though.

[darkflame]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

How do you end your qigong sessions? My teacher recommends ending with at least 10 minutes of seated stillness meditation to bring the qi downwards to your lower dantien.

In the end of the spring forest first video Chunyi ends it with body massage.

I can try adding meditation but I can almost guarantee it won't be strong enough. Even the mineral yang descender in tcm like long gu require a high dose just to bring me somewhere near baseline.

And when you say to bring the energy down to the lower dantien, do you mean standard presence based meditation. Or actually visualizing the energy going there?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

35 minutes ago, darkflame said:

And when you say to bring the energy down to the lower dantien, do you mean standard presence based meditation. Or actually visualizing the energy going there?

Standard. Don’t visualise the energy going down, just focus your mind on your lower dantien during meditation.

[Shadow_self]

9 hours ago, darkflame said:

I think part of the problem is I am already and extremely creative, mentally driven person. I live in my mind and there is already so much energy in the upper jiao that when I begin moving qi it rapidly overloads me. Where someone else might benefit from ascending yang/qi and find it energizing I find it far too much. If I were to practice qi gong for multiple hours a day without taking herbs I would quickly go insane. I imagine this is what happens to those who experience qi gong psychosis, I am able to recognize it early though because of being able to read my body energetics through herbalism. 

 

Honestly, before you are going to start meditating or doing energy work, it might be best to  learn to step out of your mind and into your body

 

Taiji would be very beneficial for your in this regard.

 

 

[Eduardo]

On the Taoist path there is a large space dedicated to doing nothing, doing nothing, resting, and forgetting.
Cultivating dantians, opening channels, strengthening chi, meditating three hours a day can take you away from the great Dao and its power.
It is better to rest and forget.
Rest and forget, get out of the self-imposed competition.
Look for that pleasant rest that is achieved in deep sleep where the ten thousand things dissolve into nothing.
As a famous Taoist who lived to be 256 years old advised, he sleeps carefree like a dog, he walks with the liveliness of a small bird, he breathes slowly like a turtle.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Eduardo
Clarification

[darkflame]

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Honestly, before you are going to start meditating or doing energy work, it might be best to  learn to step out of your mind and into your body

 

Taiji would be very beneficial for your in this regard.

 

 

I will give this a try. Although I wouldn't say I'm not connected to my body. I do a lot of weightlifting and I got into energy work after I noticed I could feel what I know now as qi moving through my forearm by hovering my other hand above it. I am pretty sensitive to these things.

[darkflame]

6 hours ago, Shadao said:

I think I'm somewhat the same, I was said many times as a kid that I had "an artist's mind"(still don't know if this is a good or bad thing) and I tend to daydream and be introspective a lot.

 

Honestly, aside a creative medium(drawing, writing, making mock ups...) the only way I find to get my head clear is by doing a physical activity, preferably with a lot of movement.While I am moving, I don't have to think, I just "am" or just "do" what I have/want to do.

 

It can be as simple as just swaying in one place, shadow boxing or running around at full speed(sprinting).

 

Sorry for this mild digression.

 

Why not try to separate you practice in sessions and do high intensity activities between each session?Even before doing the first one, go spend your energy into working out, dancing or just moving around a lot.

 

Just an idea though.

So I don't necessarily have an excess of energy. I workout a lot and my creative mind is properly exercised in the business that I run.

I will honestly give the workouts after a session a try. Although I don't find workouts particularly grounding.

[darkflame]

Are there any alchemical work / qi gong that focus more on calm and serenity?

2 years ago I was meditating almost 2 hours a day and it completely transformed who I was as a person.

Surely there are practices that have less focus on moving qi?

(Anything besides presence meditation, already very familiar with that)

Edited June 13, 2022 by darkflame
clarification

[Shadow_self]

3 hours ago, darkflame said:

I will give this a try. Although I wouldn't say I'm not connected to my body. I do a lot of weightlifting and I got into energy work after I noticed I could feel what I know now as qi moving through my forearm by hovering my other hand above it. I am pretty sensitive to these things.

That wouldn't be the type of "connected" I was referring too

 

Weightlifting would be counterproductive to energy work to be honest...you are going to want to give that up if you wish to take energy work seriously

 

You can do other things instead (some bodyweight training, cardio, sports...but the weights generally create too much tension and stress) 

 

If you are saying that you have opened your laogong points...then I suggest you watch this video...and it will help you sink energy

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 hours ago, darkflame said:

Are there any alchemical work / qi gong that focus more on calm and serenity?

2 years ago I was meditating almost 2 hours a day and it completely transformed who I was as a person.

Surely there are practices that have less focus on moving qi?

(Anything besides presence meditation, already very familiar with that)

Give Flying Phoenix a try. It’s very calming and slow. Start with the first volume as it’s mostly static standing exercises then like I said earlier, end each session with at least 10 mins of seated stillness and mind focused on LDT.

 

http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Alternatively, don’t learn any qigong at all but learn neigong from Rudi. This will help you properly develop your lower dantien and keep your qi there instead of it going all over your body.

 

https://authenticneigong.com/

 

 

[awaken]

4 hours ago, darkflame said:

Are there any alchemical work / qi gong that focus more on calm and serenity?

2 years ago I was meditating almost 2 hours a day and it completely transformed who I was as a person.

Surely there are practices that have less focus on moving qi?

(Anything besides presence meditation, already very familiar with that)

 

Yes, there is.

 

我所用的方法就是了

 

The method I use is.

 

But it need to learn some rules.

 

For example, you need learn what is yin and yang.

 

 

[Shadow_self]

5 hours ago, darkflame said:

Are there any alchemical work / qi gong that focus more on calm and serenity?

2 years ago I was meditating almost 2 hours a day and it completely transformed who I was as a person.

Surely there are practices that have less focus on moving qi?

(Anything besides presence meditation, already very familiar with that)

 

You need to ground yourself first...it will serve you better in the long run. A lot of the time, the issue is not method, it is personal.

 

You already mentioned you live inside your head...The first thing you need to do is get out of your head....that is paramount, and all you really need to worry about right now. The teachers, practices, methods...they will all be there for you when you are in a better state of mind. Whats the hurry?

 

I mentioned Taiji or exercise as an alternative for a specific reason. Meditation, Qigong, Neigong, Neidan....they really wont help you with the issue you are having...except for some standard breathing and sitting quietly (stillness)...but even then, I would not go there for a while with what you outlined.

 

When you sit and seal the senses, if the mind is over-engaged and you just cannot detach from it or quieten it...then it can be counterproductive. On top of that, energy work will exacerbate your current mind-state. It is of little use to you to address the cause of the problem.

 

So get out of your head, into your body first and foremost...slowly start doing small sits of just breathing and simple stillness (5-10 minutes) once your mind calms down a bit...that would be a good gauge of how well your mind is settling down, as you should be able to increase it over time.

 

Hope that helps, and feel better soon

[markern]

Maybe try Damos system. It is very balanced and focuses on grounding the energies first. Or try to do physical activities that are more grounding than lifting weights. I find walking in nature, martial arts and Pilates more grounding than lifting weights. Anything that teaches precise movements and gets you in deeper contact with your muscles and how to move them I find grounding. And anything that works a lot with the legs and feet and the contact of the feet with the ground. 

[markern]

Intuflow could be good to. Gets you into the body while loosening up joints and tensions. 

[dwai]

On 6/12/2022 at 10:31 AM, darkflame said:

descend yang, drive qi downward, and purge fire for those wondering)

Why don't you do this as part of your practice? Stand in wuji, skin the qi down to the lower abdomen. Why do you need to take herbs to do this? Just make the proper postural alignments and stand with no other agenda, motivation, or impulse. Stand until you feel a pouring sensation flow down from your upper torso towards the lower belly. Let it keep pouring downward. 

 

[Creation]

Somewhat counterintuitively to how people typically think of grounding activities to sink rising qi, weightlifting encourages the body to hold the qi high.  So other forms of physical activity, could be better for your situation.

 

As for Spring Forest quickly having the same negative effects as Kriya Yoga, this is quite sensible.  One of the major mechanisms behind persistent qigong deviation is that if one wires the system some way through a regular practice, any time one does something even remotely similar, the energy will follow the path it is used to following.  So, Spring Forest has a component of intending energy to go up the spine by intending the activation of using points in ascending order.  This is so similar to certain aspects of Kriya that the energy would surely just do what it was accustomed to doing when you were practicing Kriya. 

 

Other than non-weightlifting forms of exercise and not doing anything remotely similar to Kriya (including Spring Forest), there are other standard suggestions like time in nature/contact with the Earth, having time where you take breaks from being mentally oriented, focusing benefiting others rather than yourself, heavier foods, and nourishing your yin (eg. getting sufficient and regular sleep, not being sexually indulgent especially if your sexuality has a strong mental component - stuff you probably know all about). 

[lightminefire]

I've done level 1&2 Spring Forest qigong never issue with that. 
Make sure closing correct and don't open up your psychic/intuitive in between closing including completion of closing afterwards 

[Gerard]

On 13/6/2022 at 1:31 AM, darkflame said:

I am already and extremely creative, mentally driven person. I live in my mind

 

Endless threads about the same issue.

 

YOU NEED HEAPS OF GROUNDING WORK

 

Real Kung Fu like Ba Gua or Xingyi will provide that + emphasis on the Five Stances and the Asian Squat:

 

https://shaolinsticksandstones.wordpress.com/2015/06/25/the-five-basic-wushu-stances-in-no-particular-order/amp/

 

https://fitnessvolt.com/asian-squat/

 

He Jinghan from Taiwan has an entire collection of free material on his YT Channel.

 

Good luck bro.

 

 

Further advice:

 

1. Stop any energy moving and Qi bullshit, yogas of any kind and static practices.

 

2. Move a lot. Go hiking and lots of walking whenever you can.

 

 

[Learner]

Look into Dragon Dao yin.

Do the swimming dragon qigong exercise . You can find it on YouTube. Instead of building chi, for the moment focus on clearing blockages especially from your spine.