"When the student is ready, the master appears"

[looschmaster]

This seems to be a common concept shared by a lot of spiritual doctrines. I've read that the Buddha or Lao Zi once said something along those lines. I also feel that verse 34, chapter 4 of the Bhagavad Gita describes something similar, though I am no Gita expert:

 

"Know this! Through humble submission, Through enquiry, through service (on your own part), The knowing ones, the perceivers of truth, will be led to teach you knowledge." - Winthrop Sargeant's Translation

 

In your experience, is this true? Should we seek out a teacher, or wait for a teacher to seek us out? That's something I've been wondering.

Edited June 14, 2022 by looschmaster

[Lairg]

Mine appeared in my mind as a "voice" with which I could communicate.  It took a decade before I worked out his identity.

 

Later it turned out that he was communicating to a woman I knew well, even exactly the same statements as I received.

 

He has moved on and so have I.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Lairg

[Eduardo]

In this life it is easier to meet a charlatan than a true Master...

[Gerard]

What you are seeking is also seeking you.

 

 

[Lairg]

5 hours ago, Eduardo said:

it is easier to meet a charlatan than a true Master...

It is said/sad that it  is harder for a Master to find a worthy pupil than for a seeker to find a worthy Master

[silent thunder]

3 hours ago, Gerard said:

What you are seeking is also seeking you.

~Rumi

[doc benway]

16 hours ago, looschmaster said:

This seems to be a common concept shared by a lot of spiritual doctrines. I've read that the Buddha or Lao Zi once said something along those lines. I also feel that verse 34, chapter 4 of the Bhagavad Gita describes something similar, though I am no Gita expert:

 

"Know this! Through humble submission, Through enquiry, through service (on your own part), The knowing ones, the perceivers of truth, will be led to teach you knowledge." - Winthrop Sargeant's Translation

 

In your experience, is this true? Should we seek out a teacher, or wait for a teacher to seek us out? That's something I've been wondering.

 

"When the student is ready, the master appears."

 

This has been true for me on multiple levels. 

I think there is a lot that can be found in this simple statement. 

In a practical sense what does this mean?

I don't think it means we should sit in our house waiting for the right teacher to phone or knock on the door.

I also don't think it means there is one teacher out there that is right for us that is actively looking for us.

Teachers do their dance of teaching, students do their dance of learning. 

When conditions are optimal, a very special connection can occur.

Transmission can occur and relationship can develop.

Teaching/learning is a two way street.

 

At another level I think this simple statement can expand our understanding of what a teacher or master can be.

If we are open enough and actively interested and listening, anything and everything in our lives can teach us. 

A toxic relationship, a family pet, a child, a parent, a boss, an employee, a tree, an illness, a drug... all of these can be our teacher.

On the other hand, we could meet the Buddha or a Daoist Immortal and if we are closed up and focused elsewhere, we will get nothing out of the meeting.

 

So I think it is important to follow one's heart. What feels right? Am I drawn to this or that? Am I uncomfortable or irritated by something else? We should engage with both equally and discover what it is that either pulls or pushes us. I think we move through life doing our dance and stay open, even to things that may not seem to be what we are expecting, even to things that seem wrong or don't make sense. When circumstances are right there will be a connection and in that connection there is the potential for learning and growth. 

 

I think a big part of what this is trying to tell us is to be patient, to learn to wait, to learn to remain open and curious, and to be as free as possible from preconceived notions and expectations. 

[Master Logray]

18 hours ago, Eduardo said:

In this life it is easier to meet a charlatan than a true Master...

 

In real life, a master can appear when the student is ready, or not ready, or not interested, or rejected.   We all see how "masters" can look for pupils these days in our very forum.

[Eduardo]

The real question would be, a teacher a master but of what?

Master carpenter

Master of scams

Master butcher

Satanist master

Qigong master

 

Personally, I believe that the human being in his path of life has to go through the spiritual path so difficult to achieve that it is like walking on the edge of a knife, in that noble path a real Master appears when there is sincerity and spiritual nobility.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Eduardo
Clarification

[Master Logray]

4 hours ago, Eduardo said:

The real question would be, a teacher a master but of what?

Master carpenter

Master of scams

Master butcher

Satanist master

Qigong master

 

 

There is not too much sense in this statement if the definition of a master is unknown.   Let say does it include advertisement?   

[Taoist Texts]

On 6/15/2022 at 12:23 AM, looschmaster said:

This seems to be a common concept shared by a lot of spiritual doctrines. I've read that the Buddha or Lao Zi once said something along those lines.

No it is not. It is a fake new age sound bite. 

For example in a 1914 periodical, The Herald of the Star (a publication of a Theosophical organization, “The Order of the Star in the East”), we’re told that “in the various occult Orders which seem always to have existed throughout the world, it has been expressed in the words, ‘When the pupil is ready, the Master will appear.’”

And in Theosophy magazine of 1918, we have “When the disciple is ready, the Master will appear.”

In a Masonic publication from 1922, The New Age magazine, we also read “It is said, in what is called Occultism, that when the pupil is ready the Master will appear.” “

https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/when-the-student-is-ready-the-teacher-will-appear/ 

Besides it is silly in its own right. Why would the master appear? Whats his motivation?

 

 

On 6/15/2022 at 12:23 AM, looschmaster said:

 

 

I also feel that verse 34, chapter 4 of the Bhagavad Gita describes something similar, though I am no Gita expert:

 

"Know this! Through humble submission, Through enquiry, through service (on your own part), The knowing ones, the perceivers of truth, will be led to teach you knowledge." - Winthrop Sargeant's Translation

As you see this is totally backwards. First the student finds a teacher to submit to, to inquire from, to serve him and then the teacher teaches the student (or does not).  This does not say anything at all about the student's readiness vs. a teacher appearing.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

7 hours ago, Eduardo said:

The real question would be, a teacher a master but of what?

Master carpenter

Master of scams

Master butcher

Satanist master

Qigong master

 

Personally, I believe that the human being in his path of life has to go through the spiritual path so difficult to achieve that it is like walking on the edge of a knife, in that noble path a real Master appears when there is sincerity and spiritual nobility.

Master Baiter

[Lairg]

There is also the possibility of negative masters.   A hour ago I was approached by a woman with diverticulitis.  I asked her if she could see the dark cloud on her abdomen.  She could and dealt with it.

 

The dark cloud/parasite was sent/managed by a dark master/supervisor.   Such dark masters are very common for Earth humans

 

 

[looschmaster]

7 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

As you see this is totally backwards. First the student finds a teacher to submit to, to inquire from, to serve him and then the teacher teaches the student (or does not).  This does not say anything at all about the student's readiness vs. a teacher appearing.

 

Mmm, the way I interpreted it, was that first the student performs enquiry and service "on your own part," and then the teacher is "led to teach you knowledge." But it seems that other sources support what you are saying. 

[looschmaster]

8 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

There is not too much sense in this statement if the definition of a master is unknown.   Let say does it include advertisement?   

I'm pretty sure the implication is that the master is a "spiritual master," and the student is a "spiritual seeker." Though of course that is hard to define as well. 

[dwai]

On 6/14/2022 at 4:23 PM, looschmaster said:

This seems to be a common concept shared by a lot of spiritual doctrines. I've read that the Buddha or Lao Zi once said something along those lines. I also feel that verse 34, chapter 4 of the Bhagavad Gita describes something similar, though I am no Gita expert:

 

"Know this! Through humble submission, Through enquiry, through service (on your own part), The knowing ones, the perceivers of truth, will be led to teach you knowledge." - Winthrop Sargeant's Translation

 

In your experience, is this true? Should we seek out a teacher, or wait for a teacher to seek us out? That's something I've been wondering.

It is so in my experience. Multiple times. I also found this works best if we dedicate ourselves to a singular practice/tradition with reverence and sincerity. If we have a sense of entitlement and keep hopping from one system to another, we’ll most likely never have the good fortune of being ready for our teacher to appear in our lives. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by dwai

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, looschmaster said:

I'm pretty sure the implication is that the master is a "spiritual master," and the student is a "spiritual seeker." Though of course that is hard to define as well. 

 

That makes things more clear.   It is just that I don't really think Taoist inner alchemy is "spiritual".  There are some spiritual developments, but probably not the "spiritual" you have in mind.   For the ZhengYi Taoists, they deal with spirits and entities directly.  I just wonder this kind of spirits relationship management is again "spiritual".

 

For "spiritual master", does it include non-human entities? 

 

Re @Taoist Texts 's opinion on student readiness, there are indeed stories or folklore in China.  It is often an Immortal or high level Taoist master giving out disgusting or dumb challenges to potential students, before accepting them as disciples.  These may satisfy the notion of student preparedness and master sought out students. 

 

But these happenings  were not meant for anyone.  The chosen ones are outstanding in terms of their endowment or previous achievements in the same field.  Sometimes karmic/reincarnation was involved.  For a general person, however prepared you are, the master would not come.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

When present and awake... the entire world is teaching.  The teacher is everywhere.

Every aspect of life, form and void is teaching and speaking all the time.

 

Are you listening?

[Eduardo]

5 hours ago, silent thunder said:

When present and awake... the entire world is teaching.  The teacher is everywhere.

Every aspect of life, form and void is teaching and speaking all the time.

 

Are you listening?

 

Enemies and misfortunes are the best teachers...

[old3bob]

this could also be thought of in mathematical like terms, for the laws of the universe will answer to a problem or need so to speak.  Thus a sincere call can not go without a sincere response.  (not unlike the working of an equation) 

[Desmonddf]

Once someone decides to be a Master, they are not gods. They are only capable enough in a field to teach others.

 

However, their own teaching methods and means may be harmfull to those who are not ready to be under them. The most accomplished masters need the least from their disciples, and can turn even a bafoon in a sage.

 

The least accomplished masters need the more from their disciples, and trying to guide someone who isn't "whorty" (is in harmony with their own way and means) may bring estagnation or even injury to those he tries to guide.

 

Between the greatest masters and the novice and inexperienced masters, there is a huge array of more or less accomplished ones. "Being ready" as a student means merely to find the one who is the most adequate for you. Which will also be looking for you - as if he is the most adequate master to you, them you are the most adequate pupil for him.

[mcoolio]

On 6/16/2022 at 3:21 AM, Eduardo said:

Personally, I believe that the human being in his path of life has to go through the spiritual path so difficult to achieve that it is like walking on the edge of a knife, in that noble path a real Master appears when there is sincerity and spiritual nobility.

 

I agree.

 

It is a question that is very much on my mind lately. Was in school for a while but now back to training on my own. I think I got a few decent practices out of that that keep me busy for now, but is that enough? Just stay focused on the practice and hope to flow into something new, or actively seek out a new teacher?

 

Not much time has passed for me since leaving school, so I'll stay put and rest for a while. But it seems to me that ultimately, if the seeker wishes to find his teacher, he better start seeking.

[Lairg]

Teaching powerful techniques to a human that cannot control its thoughts or feelings, is to bear quite a lot of karmic responsibility for the actions of that human.

 

Teachers (spiritual masters) tend to stand clear of such dangerous humans.

 

 

[mcoolio]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:56 AM, Lairg said:

It is said/sad that it  is harder for a Master to find a worthy pupil than for a seeker to find a worthy Master

 

9 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Teaching powerful techniques to a human that cannot control its thoughts or feelings, is to bear quite a lot of karmic responsibility for the actions of that human.

 

Teachers (spiritual masters) tend to stand clear of such dangerous humans.

 

 

 

Well said! Very interesting and I can relate to this. I was in school with teacher. Got some nice practices, got some nice sensations, trained hard. But in the end it never felt as if I was being taught. Eventually, I left because of the way things flowed. But it definitely might have been the case of student not ready.

[Lairg]

The most important techniques that I have been taught, appeared in my meditation