Understanding Chinese martial arts

[Ethan singh]

Does slowing down your breathing rate and heart rate via meditation effect your lifespan and if so by how much 

[Shadao]

What martial arts has to do with lifespan though?

 

I get the "healthy body" part, but a healthy body only increases slightly your lifespan, or more accurately, it makes you able to live out your original lifespan with less of the hurdles associated to old age.

[Nintendao]

Internal martial arts, or the art of marshalling your innards? 

 

Some conjecture that slowing down the body’s processes ultimately includes reducing the need for cells to divide as frequently, so the chromosomes don’t wear down as fast.

[Vajra Fist]

I wouldn't say that meditation per se would enable one to live longer. I know of many excellent human beings and advanced meditators who have died young from various cancers or diseases. Rob Burbea in particular is sorely missed. 

 

Similarly with taiji, excellent teachers like Ronnie Robinson and Joanna Zorya have passed from various illnesses. Heck, even Lou Reed was a dedicated practitioner of the internal arts.

 

I would say that taiji though shortens your odds somewhat, by providing an excellent low impact exercise in older age, as well as many other physical, mental and emotional benefits that statistically have been found to contribute to longevity.

 

But when your karmically-allotted time on earth is up, its your time to go. You do your best to live well, and cleanly, but any of us could die in a freak accident - medical or man-made, at any time. 

 

It's best not to worry about it. Over a long-enough time line, the survival rate of everyone drops to zero.

 

The best we can do is practice wholeheartedly with what time we have left.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Vajra Fist

[Earl Grey]

Internal martial arts at the very least guarantees that you will survive a war or bandits, while giving you practices that keep your body healthy, mind alert for dangers of both man and nature and how to avoid or endure them.

 

The health benefits keep you focused on living well while not burning yourself out the way more external practices can wear your joints down or exhaust your kidneys from excessive adrenaline and overexertion from the cardio and heightened tension.

 

Normal breathing and remaining calm under all situations as well as being able to control those situations to prevent conflict and even win with words because you've sized up a situation and projected peace and power to maintain order.

[Cheshire Cat]

After 10+ years of personal research in this subject, my conclusion is that meditation can help a little with physical ailments... but probably can't do much to lenghten lifespan.

 

For the purpose of longevity, it's proven that physical exercise has a significant impact. 

 

 

 

[Master Logray]

Meditation itself will prolong lifespan if the person happens to be needing that, let say very stressful life.  But pure meditation on emptiness has very little effect on lifespan as warned by many Taoist teachings.   Only the very well endowed and talented can use pure meditation to achieve alchemical purposes. 

 

Taichi masters also don't live particularly long.  They probably over trained in their younger years and sustained injuries and wearing down over the years.   It is a bit irony.  A person hiding at home possibly avoid traffic accident, viruses, breathing in polluted air, robberies, over eating after exercises, and many other direct and indirect life shortening situations.   Animals breed and kept indoor always outlive their wild and free counterparts by 30% at least.

 

[Ethan singh]

Can tortoise breathing prolong your life significantly 

[Master Logray]

16 hours ago, Ethan singh said:

Can tortoise breathing prolong your life significantly 

 

Yes, it is said all the longevity skills are based on mimicking turtles, snakes, slowing down the life process, better still reverse it.

 

[Lairg]

The spiritual light flowing into the human body brings life force etc.   The stronger the flow, the more likely the human is to live longer than average

 

For example orchestra conductors may live 38% longer than the general population

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/orchestra-conductors-live-longest-glenn-romans

[Cheshire Cat]

On 5/7/2022 at 6:39 PM, Ethan singh said:

Can tortoise breathing prolong your life significantly 

 

I believe that if this practice was truly effective, then the military would have already introduced it into recruit training programs. 

 

Probably it's better to stick to air breathing.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Cheshire Cat

[MetaDao]

TCM is the study of how to stay healthy as long as possible. Following these principles perfectly with martial arts can let you live a long life of about 100-110 years. Ultimately, martial arts use up Yuan Qi. When you run out, you die.

 

Deep meditation can place your body into stasis, thus longevity passed the norm can be achieved. You would have to reach a legendary state of stasis though.

 

If you’re not replenishing, you are dying. This is the life of a mortal, which martial artists certainly are.

 

Alchemists are aiming for immortality

[Earl Grey]

11 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I believe that if this practice was truly effective, then the military would have already introduced it into recruit training programs. 

 

Probably it's better to stick to air breathing.

 

Turtles also breath through their anuses (no, really). Can't imagine the military finding that useful. Oh, wait:

 

Spoiler

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/psychic-spies-truth-men-stare-goats/story?id=9032019

 

 

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, MetaDao said:

Ultimately, martial arts use up Yuan Qi

 

False.

[Cheshire Cat]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Can't imagine the military finding that useful. Oh, wait:

 

 

An exercise that could prolong a soldier's life and improve performance would be extremely useful in my opinion.

Too bad that it doesn't work.

[Lairg]

The "20 and back" reports include age regression to their recruitment day 20 years before.   The accounts agree on about 2 weeks of very boring time for the 20 year age regression.

 

 

[Earl Grey]

6 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

An exercise that could prolong a soldier's life and improve performance would be extremely useful in my opinion.

Too bad that it doesn't work.

 

It does exist--it's called Baduanjin.

 

Spoiler

What? Were you expecting some sUpEr SeCrEt fajin and iron shirt?

 

[Master Logray]

The Chinese Kung Fu is mainly a personal defense system for civilians.   It was not useful in the old days on the battlefields, and not useful nowadays with modern weaponry.   Even the China army don't really train Chinese martial arts but absorb some elements only.

 

Whether it is effective and longer lifespan is two different issues, though related. 

 

@Earl Grey  In the broader sense, all activities use up Yuan Chi.  Martial arts could have some strenuous trainings or simulated combat that simply decrease lifespan.   Persons trained in the art is more prone to involve in actual fighting, which needless to say, can cause injuries that could never recover.

 

 

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

Just now, Master Logray said:

@Earl Grey  In the broader sense, all activities use up Yuan Chi.  Martial arts could have some strenuous trainings or simulated combat that simply decrease lifespan.   Persons trained in the art is more prone to involve in actual fighting, which needless to say, can cause injuries that could never recover.

 

There's a big difference between Bagua and Muay Thai, and this still isn't yuan qi.

 

But I think this thread has enough people who are certain of themselves, and I'm just going to say "Mmmmm-kay."

[Michael Sternbach]

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

The Chinese Kung Fu is mainly a personal defense system for civilians.   It was not useful in the old days on the battlefields, and not useful nowadays with modern weaponry.   Even the China army don't really train Chinese martial arts but absorb some elements only.

 

That depends on the Kung Fu style. For instance, Long Fist was created as a simplified form of monastic Shaolin specifically for soldiers.

 

Quote

Whether it is effective and longer lifespan is two different issues, though related. 

 

@Earl Grey  In the broader sense, all activities use up Yuan Chi.  Martial arts could have some strenuous trainings or simulated combat that simply decrease lifespan.   Persons trained in the art is more prone to involve in actual fighting, which needless to say, can cause injuries that could never recover.

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Michael Sternbach

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

That depends on the Kung Fu style. For instance, Long Fist was specifically created as a simplified form of monastic Shaolin specifically for soldiers.

 

 

There were 2 main considerations on the battlefield in the old days - effectiveness and efficiency.  For effectiveness, battles were usually fought not bare hand.  It was mostly bow and arrow, then long spear or similar in the direct combat.  Some may be armed with long knives. Weapons are usually the longer the better.  Soldiers were somewhat armoured or with shields and required to fight in closely packed formations.  Personal excellence in hand to hand combat did not offer too much advantages.  While most Kung Fu were aimed to train people with high skills with bare hand or small weaponry, against very limited opponents without armour.   Organization, tactics and morale were more important than personal skill.

 

Another problem is efficiency.  The empires didn't spend money or effort in training and maintaining highly skilled soldiers, taking them away from intensive farming popular in China.  It is because Kung Fu training is long term and expensive.  It was popular to say, poor scholars and rich fighters.   Scholars can be trained or self developed with little resources.  But only the rich could afford tutors or master in Kung Fu. 

 

The China empires mostly depended on conscripts with minimal training, winning by numbers from their great population.  It was why China often did not do well against surrounding horse riding countries with better skill soldiers in open grasslands.

 

I would say the different applications of Kung Fu in military and civil areas give rise to 2 different systems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

There were 2 main considerations on the battlefield in the old days - effectiveness and efficiency.  For effectiveness, battles were usually fought not bare hand.  It was mostly bow and arrow, then long spear or similar in the direct combat.  Some may be armed with long knives. Weapons are usually the longer the better.  Soldiers were somewhat armoured or with shields and required to fight in closely packed formations.  Personal excellence in hand to hand combat did not offer too much advantages.  While most Kung Fu were aimed to train people with high skills with bare hand or small weaponry, against very limited opponents without armour.  

 

Many Kung Fu systems, including the Long Fist style I mentioned above, teach a variety of weapons well suited for the battle field. One such list (known as  "The Eighteen Weapons of Kung Fu") includes:

 

Saber, spear, sword, Chinese halberd, battle-axe, deer-horn knives, hook sword, fork, whip, mace, hammer, talon, trident-halberd, staff, lance, cudgel, crutch and meteor hammer.

 

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Organization, tactics and morale were more important than personal skill.

 

Another problem is efficiency.  The empires didn't spend money or effort in training and maintaining highly skilled soldiers, taking them away from intensive farming popular in China.  It is because Kung Fu training is long term and expensive.  It was popular to say, poor scholars and rich fighters.   Scholars can be trained or self developed with little resources.  But only the rich could afford tutors or master in Kung Fu. 

 

The China empires mostly depended on conscripts with minimal training, winning by numbers from their great population.  It was why China often did not do well against surrounding horse riding countries with better skill soldiers in open grasslands.

 

I would say the different applications of Kung Fu in military and civil areas give rise to 2 different systems.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

9 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

It does exist--it's called Baduanjin.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

What? Were you expecting some sUpEr SeCrEt fajin and iron shirt?

 

 

Qigong mythology, in my opinion.

[Ethan singh]

There is a hypothetical concept involving Jin at a much higher level than Hua jin that I would like to introduce 

I would like to know if it is possible to achieve this hypothetical level of Jin 

 

The concept is about raising the vibration of the body to such a high level that you can cause stone to crack with only a light touch of your finger without conscious effort and physical exertion at all

 

At the level of Hua jin you can create Jin without visible movement but it still requires conscious effort to do 

 

Could this be achieved by doing the following 

Vibrating the Dan Tian using the method from certain lineages of the shape will fist and the gate opening eight extremities fist 

Building up pressure inside the abdomen 

Resonating the vibration inside the body with the method of breathing with the sound of Ha

Practicing the standing pole posture

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

3 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

Qigong mythology, in my opinion.

 

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯