Qigong and astral travel

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

15 hours ago, freeform said:

 

(sorry! Couldn’t resist! Carry on.)

This isn’t nice

[freeform]

49 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

This isn’t nice

No it’s not nice. I wasn’t trying to be nice.

 

It’s also not nice to encourage your followers to worship you as a Buddha…

 

A gentle joke to disarm the allure of a narcissistic personality cult like Kelsang Gyatso’s is fair game in my opinion  

 

[Neirong]

On 8/7/2022 at 4:46 PM, Nuralshamal said:

If any of you have any information about genuine and authentic teachers, teaching effective and safe methods for astral travel, please share them with me

I'm still researching and searching for a teacher to help guide me in astral travel

We teach it, but it is a part of a complete training system, not a standalone module. The training is challenging and takes years to complete. (Not everyone will make it)

 

Yes, it is a necessary skill for a cultivator or an Adept to have and develop.

 

Moving out of the body is an easy part. Navigating the multidimensional realm, opening portals, and training the astral body to Magus's requirements is a different level altogether. The skill ceiling goes higher than someone can think.

 

People who cannot move out of their body on will, suffer from incomplete, fragmented teachings, train with scamgong gurus, and end up being forum trolls.

[Master Logray]

Normally Taoist alchemy has strict warnings that followers should not indulge in any happenings along the way.  Astral travel or similar things are included.    The magical section of Taoism has lots of astral travel.  But there is very little information on the internet, even for Chinese media.

 

[Wilhelm]

11 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

Normally Taoist alchemy has strict warnings that followers should not indulge in any happenings along the way.  Astral travel or similar things are included.    The magical section of Taoism has lots of astral travel.  But there is very little information on the internet, even for Chinese media.

 

Jerry Alan Johnson wrote a lot about it, but I never met anyone in his system who was practicing it.

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

Normally Taoist alchemy has strict warnings that followers should not indulge in any happenings along the way.  Astral travel or similar things are included.    The magical section of Taoism has lots of astral travel.  But there is very little information on the internet, even for Chinese media.

 

 

 

Something like this.  Now they got advertisements!

 

https://www-lukyamtao-net.translate.goog/?_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en

 

Just beware. 

[Shadow_self]

5 hours ago, Neirong said:

Suffer from incomplete, fragmented teachings, train with scamgong gurus, and end up being forum trolls.

 

Like people who bring up topics, claim to be authorities on the subject, and then when asked to explain or elaborate, go silent?

 

 

[freeform]

4 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Like people who bring up topics, claim to be authorities on the subject, and then when asked to explain or elaborate, go silent?

 

 

How could you question someone who was born kinda partly immortal!?! 😅

[dwai]

17 minutes ago, freeform said:

How could you question someone who was born kinda partly immortal!?! 😅

The part that wasn't born IS immortal, the part that is born can never become immortal   

[Shadow_self]

26 minutes ago, freeform said:

How could you question someone who was born kinda partly immortal!?! 😅

 

In the hope that via their advanced third eye powers, I would be given great insight into mechanics us mere mortals simply do not understand.

 

I've gathered you know who owns that profile  and recall the preceding statements scattered amongst threads of days gone by  

[freeform]

39 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

I've gathered you know who owns that profile  and recall the preceding statements scattered amongst threads of days gone by  

Oh - you mean Gmaster?

 

Yeah I saw the suggestion (and similarity in style). I had some fun chats with Gmaster despite the adolescent style grandiosity  

 

If it’s really him, I hope he reconsiders teaching. It’s one thing leading yourself down a path - it’s quite something else to lead other souls down a path… The money and status won’t be worth the repercussions.

[Shadow_self]

24 minutes ago, freeform said:

Oh - you mean Gmaster?

 

Yeah I saw the suggestion (and similarity in style). I had some fun chats with Gmaster despite the adolescent style grandiosity  

 

If it’s really him, I hope he reconsiders teaching. It’s one thing leading yourself down a path - it’s quite something else to lead other souls down a path… The money and status won’t be worth the repercussions.

Fun indeed, I spent quite a bit of time going over older posts  

 

I imagine people were spared some of the details of his past adventures. My favourite highlight is when one of the Western Mo Pai actually summarized some of the things he said in a post..naga demons, laser eyes, portals...Sounds like Highlander  

 

More fun below  

 

https://ancientmasters.org/ancient-masters-library-bits-of-ancient-knowledge/adam-mizner-taiji-quan-internal-arts-scam

 

https://ancientmasters.org/ancient-masters-library-bits-of-ancient-knowledge/damo-mitchell-lotus-neigong-internal-arts-academy

 

Certainly wouldn't be my approach...but then, if the past is any way indicative of the future...I should expect no less 

[freeform]

20 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

some of the things he said

He’s like our very own Bruce Frantzis! 

 

But I’m not going to denounce a young dude with a big imagination.
 

There are many things in life that can lead to that sort of thing - and I’m not here to judge. I think it’s obvious to most people when someone is a fantasist - so no harm done imo.

 

When there’s teaching involved - well then I have a far higher standard for someone that takes on that role… And I don’t hold back (unless it causes damage to someone).

 

I had looked at some of those articles on ancientmasters.org denouncing various people and practices.
 

The classic nameless, faceless, historyless internet dudes trying to dump on real teachers in an attempt to make a quick buck of some unsuspecting teenagers.

 

Spoiler

 

I didn’t even comment on this before because it’s all a bit sad and pathetic.

 

I guess people are prepared to stoop pretty low coz they feel anonymous…

 

They’re yet to realise that the repercussions won’t come from others discovering them but from themselves, in time.

 

[mrpasserby]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:25 PM, Lairg said:

Who can distinguish etheric travel from astral travel?

IMO: etheric realm travel requires an energized functional subtle energy body that can be used to travel within the etheric realm to gain experiences. Astral travel requires energizing your aura that acts like an antenna, to receive etheric astral experiences.

Edited October 20, 2022 by mrpasserby
clarify

[Aeordimm]

35 minutes ago, mrpasserby said:

On 10/18/2022 at 2:25 PM, Lairg said:

Who can distinguish etheric travel from astral travel?

IMO: etheric realm travel requires an energized functional subtle energy body that can be used to travel within the etheric realm to gain experiences. Astral travel requires energizing your aura that acts like an antenna, to receive etheric astral experiences.

 

The astral body is way more subtle than an ethereal body; therefore, you may not even feel it. You can tell the difference by experiences from the world you are going to; the astral world is totally different, as it's another dimension. Most people's experiences are with near-physical world OBEs with low energy. The astral world is vastly different in terms of surrounding energy, and the impact it has on your psyche.

[Lairg]

Most accounts of "astral projection" that I read are of an etheric experience of the physical world.  Astral means "of the stars".

 

And there are parallel timelines.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Lairg

[Earl Grey]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

He’s like our very own Bruce Frantzis! 

 

But I’m not going to denounce a young dude with a big imagination.
 

There are many things in life that can lead to that sort of thing - and I’m not here to judge. I think it’s obvious to most people when someone is a fantasist - so no harm done imo.

 

When there’s teaching involved - well then I have a far higher standard for someone that takes on that role… And I don’t hold back (unless it causes damage to someone).

 

I had looked at some of those articles on ancientmasters.org denouncing various people and practices.
 

The classic nameless, faceless, historyless internet dudes trying to dump on real teachers in an attempt to make a quick buck of some unsuspecting teenagers.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I didn’t even comment on this before because it’s all a bit sad and pathetic.

 

I guess people are prepared to stoop pretty low coz they feel anonymous…

 

They’re yet to realise that the repercussions won’t come from others discovering them but from themselves, in time.

 

 

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Fun indeed, I spent quite a bit of time going over older posts  

 

I imagine people were spared some of the details of his past adventures. My favourite highlight is when one of the Western Mo Pai actually summarized some of the things he said in a post..naga demons, laser eyes, portals...Sounds like Highlander  

 

More fun below  

 

https://ancientmasters.org/ancient-masters-library-bits-of-ancient-knowledge/adam-mizner-taiji-quan-internal-arts-scam

 

https://ancientmasters.org/ancient-masters-library-bits-of-ancient-knowledge/damo-mitchell-lotus-neigong-internal-arts-academy

 

Certainly wouldn't be my approach...but then, if the past is any way indicative of the future...I should expect no less 

I have no quarrel with you three @freeform @Neirong @Shadow_self, but I do find no technical difference between an avatar and a curated public image of an individual, be it Damo Mitchell or Bill Cosby, and the actual individual behind that persona.

 

Avatar or public persona, show me their work and their students, friends, enemies, and how they treat the working class and animals, and I’ll decide what to make of them.

 

For what it’s worth, I’ve done Neirong’s 100-Day challenger meditation as their foundation technique and can vouch for its impact on all my practices.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Earl Grey

[Taoist Texts]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

I think it’s obvious to most people when someone is a fantasist

interestingly it is not. because we all 'want to believe'. lets say the fantasist claims  'a tooth fairy brought me a dollar' or ' my teacher leaps tall buildings in single bound'. how do we know its a fantasy? we were not there, maybe its true. and there are dollars and tall buildings after all.

 

But there is a way to know. You see a fantasist cannot help himself. He cannot restrict his fantasies to things that nobody has seen. Sooner or later his fantasies overflow into things everybody has seen. Like 'the grass is blue' or 'Mr. Bopomotofo is a great neidan teacher'. Then it becomes obvious. “Not that there's anything wrong with that!”

[鞏三孝]

On 10/19/2022 at 4:39 AM, freeform said:

These guys get all shy when anyone asks for details  

 

you too 

 

We know that you have a verrry good teacher. To what extent?? Practitioners all over Asia know him, and they will come to him for advice, even help and medical treatment! And the teacher is proficient in English. But besides you, does anyone know him? It just so happens that the method he teaches is terribly similar to that of Damien Mitchell, and he also happens to think that Damien Mitchell is a highly qualified practitioner...So if people want to learn more from you or him, actually best to just join Lotus Neikung. Your teacher...quite a character 

[freeform]

4 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

For what it’s worth, I’ve done Neirong’s 100-Day challenger meditation as their foundation technique and can vouch for its impact on all my practices.

 

I think that's more a testament to you and your hard work.

 

Quote

Avatar or public persona, show me their work and their students, friends, enemies, and how they treat the working class and animals, and I’ll decide what to make of them.

 

Yup - all I've seen is the work they've done on their site - and to me it's pretty scummy.

Edited October 20, 2022 by freeform

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

interestingly it is not. because we all 'want to believe'. lets say the fantasist claims  'a tooth fairy brought me a dollar' or ' my teacher leaps tall buildings in single bound'. how do we know its a fantasy? we were not there, maybe its true. and there are dollars and tall buildings after all.

 

But there is a way to know. You see a fantasist cannot help himself. He cannot restrict his fantasies to things that nobody has seen. Sooner or later his fantasies overflow into things everybody has seen. Like 'the grass is blue' or 'Mr. Bopomotofo is a great neidan teacher'. Then it becomes obvious. “Not that there's anything wrong with that!”

 

Sometimes when life is difficult we'll create fantasies that help us cope. If I feel that this is what's happening, I'm not going to have a go at someone who's just coping with life...

 

If they start teaching - then it's another matter  

Edited October 20, 2022 by freeform

[freeform]

8 minutes ago, 鞏三孝 said:

 

you too 

 

We know that you have a verrry good teacher. To what extent?? Practitioners all over Asia know him, and they will come to him for advice, even help and medical treatment! And the teacher is proficient in English. But besides you, does anyone know him? It just so happens that the method he teaches is terribly similar to that of Damien Mitchell, and he also happens to think that Damien Mitchell is a highly qualified practitioner...So if people want to learn more from you or him, actually best to just join Lotus Neikung. Your teacher...quite a character 

 

I keep my teacher's identity quiet because that's what I've been asked to do (I probably would even if I wasn't asked). I don't teach - I'm not asking for people's time, money or effort - so I don't believe you're owed any information from me at all

[Earl Grey]

31 minutes ago, freeform said:

I think that's a testament to your hard work.

 

In Tibetan Yoga and the Secret Doctrine, one of the signs of a superior man is to take any technique--incomplete or not--and be able to make something good out of it. The opposite of this virtue is to have something complete and good and be able to achieve nothing good out of it.

 

33 minutes ago, freeform said:

Yup - all I've seen is the work they've done on their site - and to me it's pretty scummy.

 

Quantifying some of their claims is something I agree might need to be done, though the two questions about this are if 1) they are willing, 2) how they'd even be able to do so.

 

I've mentioned that having someone with a PR background make suggestions, but they believe it is fine as is. I personally feel if they're going to quantify something that to many seems esoteric like magic, go by a traditional definition as emphasized by the user Zhongyongdaoist: magic, like magi from the the three wise men, means wisdom.

 

The study of wisdom and the esoteric studies might be a better way of presenting their work, but how they choose to market themselves and what they present is their decision.

 

Notwithstanding, I maintain my default stance on all practices as quoted by Robert Anton Wilson: "Be agnostic about everything to save yourself heartbreak." Having gone through a few scummy teachers but still being able to get some good even from the worst of them and a lot of good from the least worst of them, I will say there are a number of things I don't necessarily agree with, but I've at least benefited from both discussions with Neirong and the one technique he made available to me as a foundation. I can't comment on the whole course as I haven't done it, but we shall see.

[Earl Grey]

4 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

I keep my teacher's identity quiet because that's what I've been asked to do (I probably would even if I wasn't asked). I don't teach - I'm not asking for people's time, money or effort - so I don't believe you're owed any information from me at all

 

Just a counterpoint about people's teachers: "By the fruits, ye shall be known." I may have stated this already, but it bears emphasis and re-emphasizing because it's so important that looking at one's students rather than one's teachers says more about what is taught.

 

I get you're fond of your teachers and respect them. I also know that like the late John Chang, everyone will look for a certain teacher for the suuuuuper zecret techn kneeck!

 

You do fine for us to assess you, your practice, lineage, community, and system--we all are representatives whether we like it or not because for better or for worse, you are the public link to your studies.

[鞏三孝]

24 minutes ago, freeform said:

I keep my teacher's identity quiet because that's what I've been asked to do (I probably would even if I wasn't asked). I don't teach - I'm not asking for people's time, money or effort - so I don't believe you're owed any information from me at all

 

Teach teach teach, preach preach preach, what is the big difference? Fine and blurry line in between the two. Just because you are typing here for Free does not mean you did not become Mr Form to the visitors who deeply believe you.  I can see you 'not asking for people's time, money or effort'. Even it is true, you use your eloquence to dangle big promises of far away magic in front of hungry people. If they want to satisfy the hunger you help stimulate then......"I keep my teacher's identity quiet because that's what I've been asked to do" (but you can go to Mr Mitchell he is teaching the same stuff, even also has secret esoteric buddhist teachings) (however he is like Mr Franztis, take little bit of this join to a little bit of that: now a complete 'system' with a lovely web site )

 

U don't owe me information------but I dont owe you not to smell some fishy overlap~~ 

Edited October 20, 2022 by 鞏三孝