Qigong and astral travel

[anshino23]

3 minutes ago, freeform said:

From what I understand of it (I’m really no expert at all) - they’re both using the Hun… just in different ways.

 

Is this similar to the spiritual mirror or is that something completely different?

[anshino23]

Also... this is more on a personal side of things ... but I personally find if I do my practice relatively late at night both that I feel immensely energized after and harder to fall asleep, but this "harder to fall asleep" aspect manifests in me having access to a lot of imagery while lying down at night. Usually I don't experience imagery at all and have actually always considered myself as partly aphantasic... but lately I feel like I have access to a sort of particular spot in my awareness with closed eyes that feels like a 'screen' where imagery then appears. Very lifelike in fact. 

[freeform]

6 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

 

Is this similar to the spiritual mirror or is that something completely different?

That’s different… more related to the central channel 

[freeform]

3 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

Also... this is more on a personal side of things ... but I personally find if I do my practice relatively late at night both that I feel immensely energized after and harder to fall asleep, but this "harder to fall asleep" aspect manifests in me having access to a lot of imagery while lying down at night. Usually I don't experience imagery at all and have actually always considered myself as partly aphantasic... but lately I feel like I have access to a sort of particular spot in my awareness with closed eyes that feels like a 'screen' where imagery then appears. Very lifelike in fact. 

Yup - this is the result of your liver generating lots of qi… you’re usually in bed at the ‘liver hour’ so this is where it starts processing stuff.

 

Dreams are generally to do with the Po and the Hun - the weird chaotic ones tend to be the Po processing sense-impressions… The vivid otherworldly ones tend to be the Hun doing it’s rounds on the various plains of existence 

 

The more the Po is settled, the more the Hun has access.

 

In my tradition, eventually the Hun also must settle - and you aim for a completely still, dreamless sleep - effectively deep sleep without the normal sleep cycles (or at least minimal). I only ever get this on retreat… still too involved with the drama of life 😅

[Master Logray]

3 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I’ve had enough. @freeform and @Shadow_self, if you want @Neirong and @Aeordimm to reveal their teachers, lineages, secrets etc then lead by example and do it first. If you don’t you are just doing the same as what you claim they do. And don’t do it here, if you have such a massive hard on for them, start a new thread, do it in the Ancient Masters thread or start your own. Keep your arguments there or even better in direct messages so you spare the rest of us from this nonsense.

 

 

I think everyone has the right to keep their lineage secret, but not for @Neirong and @Aeordimm, the owners of the Ancient Masters School.  They are offering a commercial service, charging in return.   It is common business sense to provide as much information on the origin of the goods, the ingredients, in this case, the nature of the services to be provided.  If the customers don't even know it is a western or eastern or middle eastern or south American practices, they are not getting full consumer rights.  If a potential customer wants to travel, physical or astral, he has the right to know what kind of airplane is going to carry him.   It is unnecessary to talk about it here, but may be in the website or by other means before the transaction.

 

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

I think everyone has the right to keep their lineage secret, but not for @Neirong and @Aeordimm, the owners of the Ancient Masters School.  They are offering a commercial service, charging in return.   It is common business sense to provide as much information on the origin of the goods, the ingredients, in this case, the nature of the services to be provided.  If the customers don't even know it is a western or eastern or middle eastern or south American practices, they are not getting full consumer rights.  If a potential customer wants to travel, physical or astral, he has the right to know what kind of airplane is going to carry him.   It is unnecessary to talk about it here, but may be in the website or by other means before the transaction.

 

 

 

That’s fair enough but this thread isn’t about them. I’m glad it’s got back on topic so lets keep it this way please. 

[Shadow_self]

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Yet again the thread is derailed by the usual suspects 

Two people, one a known banned member who has all the signs of having serious mental issues randomly sign up and start promoting themselves as teachers.

 

They come across a thread on astral projection...claim to the world they teach it, thats its a core part of what they do

 

 They are then scrutinized are asked to explain the mechanics of it

 

That is not off topic...

 

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I’ve had enough. @freeform and @Shadow_self

Oh dear...you're upset 

 

Freeform was kind enough to share some of the mechanics with you...I've discussed some of this elsewhere as well about certain causative factors...the link is at the start of the thread.

 

In both cases, its more than you have contributed...so consider working on that

 

However, I know you are upset...fear not

 

 

Fill this out please and return via PM...I aim to process complaints in 5 working days (I have other commitments unfortunately)

 

 

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

, if you want @Neirong and @Aeordimm to reveal their teachers, lineages, secrets etc then lead by example and do it first. If you don’t you are just doing the same as what you claim they do.

I literally dont care who their teachers are. I care whether they understand the things they are claiming to...One of those things happens to be AP...The topic of this thread

 

So far...all signs point to no

 

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

And don’t do it here, if you have such a massive hard on for them, start a new thread, do it in the Ancient Masters thread or start your own. Keep your arguments there or even better in direct messages so you spare the rest of us from this nonsense.

Of course it would be great if they weren't posting multiple threads thread claiming to teach this and that...But no...every place they turn up claiming to teach or understand something...They will be asked to discuss it in detail to the extent that a teacher should

 

That's the purpose of a discussion forum...to discuss things

 

If you don't like what you're seeing...there's a button for that if you need protection from words on a screen

 

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Show some basic respect to @Nuralshamal who is passionate about this topic and whoever else has been following this thread for months by leaving this thread alone and keeping your petty arguments with others out of here.

 

Worry about your own contributions, or lack thereof...You are not a mod of this forum

 

If all you want to do is complain about other people, you already have a well established non-public space for that

 

Teachers showing up and claiming anything should be called to task, In this case it is astral projection, the topic at hand...

 

It is that simple

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

17 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Two people, one a known banned member who has all the signs of having serious mental issues randomly sign up and start promoting themselves as teachers.

 

They come across a thread on astral projection...claim to the world they teach it, thats its a core part of what they do

 

 They are then scrutinized are asked to explain the mechanics of it

 

That is not off topic...

 

Oh dear...you're upset 

 

Freeform was kind enough to share some of the mechanics with you...I've discussed some of this elsewhere as well about certain causative factors...the link is at the start of the thread.

 

In both cases, its more than you have contributed...so consider working on that

 

However, I know you are upset...fear not

 

 

Fill this out please and return via PM...I aim to process complaints in 5 working days (I have other commitments unfortunately)

 

 

I literally dont care who their teachers are. I care whether they understand the things they are claiming to...One of those things happens to be AP...The topic of this thread

 

So far...all signs point to no

 

Of course it would be great if they weren't posting multiple threads thread claiming to teach this and that...But no...every place they turn up claiming to teach or understand something...They will be asked to discuss it in detail to the extent that a teacher should

 

That's the purpose of a discussion forum...to discuss things

 

If you don't like what you're seeing...there's a button for that if you need protection from words on a screen

 

 

Worry about your own contributions, or lack thereof...You are not a mod of this forum

 

If all you want to do is complain about other people, you already have a well established non-public space for that

 

Teachers showing up and claiming anything should be called to task, In this case it is astral projection, the topic at hand...

 

It is that simple

You seem more upset than me

[Shadow_self]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

Maybe try moving the conversation forwards yourself instead of getting upset?

Now there's an Idea

4 hours ago, freeform said:

Their approach is using various trance states and creating ‘pacts’ with entities and deities using talismanic magic, incantations, rituals, transmissions and so on. The results (if there are any) are generally ‘quicker’ because the power is ‘borrowed’… (to be repaid later with interest in the view of my tradition).

Oh dear....pacts. Its very easy to see why such practices are discouraged in a lot of instances

 

I refer to the saying...theres no such thing as a free lunch  

 

3 hours ago, freeform said:

There’s several aspects to the Hun - one is a kind of personal soul and another is a sort of collective soul. So I assume this is why it’s experienced differently - but similar end result.

Shuan Ling, Tai Guang and You Jing?

 

3 hours ago, freeform said:

For (spiritual) traditions that don’t actively seek siddhi development, there is a stage where a siddhi naturally arises. I call it omniscience - but basically it’s knowledge of all things…

 

Like how you’re able to go into your memory and remember what your front door looks like - someone with this siddhi is able to recollect any human (and non-human) experience, memory, thought or knowledge from all time (past, present and future). 
 

From what I understand, this is basically a complete, unobstructed connection with the ‘collective soul’ aspect of the Hun.

 

It can’t be trained or developed - it’s simply a byproduct of a certain (very high) level of attainment.

Thats the part of the soul that returns to source upon death right?

3 hours ago, freeform said:

 

If you do this magical stuff, or focus on siddhi development, then the door to this level of attainment is closed. (Not that it’s likely that the vast majority of us would achieve it anyway 😅)

Ive heard this mentioned in passing quite a bit, that magical traditions put up blockades to certain aspects of the deeper parts of traditions. I always found the Mao Shan a strange one...their methods are, interesting to say the least

3 hours ago, freeform said:

Yup - this is the result of your liver generating lots of qi… you’re usually in bed at the ‘liver hour’ so this is where it starts processing stuff.

 

Dreams are generally to do with the Po and the Hun - the weird chaotic ones tend to be the Po processing sense-impressions… The vivid otherworldly ones tend to be the Hun doing it’s rounds on the various plains of existence 

 

The more the Po is settled, the more the Hun has access.

As far as I understood, the latter can be rather helpful in communicating very important information when it needs to be once the former settles down

3 hours ago, freeform said:

In my tradition, eventually the Hun also must settle - and you aim for a completely still, dreamless sleep - effectively deep sleep without the normal sleep cycles (or at least minimal). I only ever get this on retreat… still too involved with the drama of life 😅

Yes this is the way I was taught also funny enough you tend to get all other manner of stuff happening along the way

[Shadow_self]

2 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

You seem more upset than me

 

Im doing good

 

I just dont like the lies...and people attempting to make money off being dishonest.

 

Disagreeing with someone is totally fine. Disliking someone is totally fine...fabricating stories isn't, especially when its done in a manner from which one seeks profit from. There's an ethical issue here, its not so much upsetting as just downright wrong

 

The thing is...freeform who isnt a teacher has contributed the most to this thread. Thats very telling considering he doesn't  practice it...whereas you have two others claiming its central to what they do, and when asked to talk about it, refuse.

 

You would think the teachers would be happy to explain the mechanics...nobody's asking them for methods

 

Moreover...much of what he's posting, especially in relation to the passive aspects of AP is something im familiar with. I see all the hallmarks of someone who knows the mechanics of it...and my knowledge of this is limited mostly (but not exclusively) to the passive aspects.

 

Id love to see this thread flourish...should it not be the case that those who claim it to be central to what they do, be some of the main contributors to the thread if they chose to post here? 

[freeform]

22 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

I assume you may be referencing the realm of the jealous dieties?

There are several names for this realm - the main thing is that it’s said that this is the realm of ‘higher level’ beings with karma… Karma that they can only process once they incarnate - or by passing it to incarnate humans in return for trinkets and favours 

Edited October 21, 2022 by freeform

[Shadow_self]

16 minutes ago, freeform said:

There are several names for this realm - the main thing is that it’s said that this is the realm of ‘higher level’ beings with karma… Karma that they can only process once they incarnate - or by passing it to others in return for trinkets and favours 

 

Oh dear  and people wonder why they are so eager to interact  

 

Interesting how none of those involved in this type of work seem to tell you that last bit  

[freeform]

4 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Oh dear  and people wonder why they are so eager to interact  

 

Interesting how none of those involved in this type of work seem to tell you that last bit  

But the trinkets are so shiny! 🤩

[anshino23]

5 minutes ago, freeform said:

But the trinkets are so shiny! 🤩

What are the examples of said trinkets? 
 

Are the stories or “made a deal with the devil” (entities) then really true? Fame, fortune, money, sex… all the base desires but basically gaining more karma and lower realm existences as a consequence? 
 

and how much does the human have to know to be able to make said “informed decision”? Or can they literally just manipulate you as much as they want and you don’t even know what you’re doing until it’s too late? 
 

Pretty nightmareish if the latter is the case…. 

[Shadow_self]

14 minutes ago, freeform said:

But the trinkets are so shiny! 🤩

Shiny things tend to be expensive, and detrimental to ones wallet 

 

I wonder if they were aware of the costs, how appealing they would seem then

[freeform]

26 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

What are the examples of said trinkets? 

It’s not always things based on base desires… in fact usually with the higher realm beings it’s seemingly benevolent stuff - things like healing abilities, clairvoyance and so on.

 

But there’s a cost - one that many people would be happy to pay - but as a spiritual cultivator, it basically pulls you in the other direction - so you have extra karma you have to clear.

 

Its the lower realm entities that play on the base desires… they’re the tricky ones and know how to manipulate you into thinking you’re in control.

 

[freeform]

35 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

Are the stories or “made a deal with the devil” (entities) then really true? Fame, fortune, money, sex… all the base desires but basically gaining more karma and lower realm existences as a consequence? 

This is like the archetypal deal with a lower realm entity.

 

It doesn’t mean you’ll necessarily be pulled to the lower realms - it’s just the sort of power gained can make you ‘drunk’ on the power - and you end up making choices that can lead you to ‘hell’.

 

But even hell is temporary  

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, anshino23 said:

and how much does the human have to know to be able to make said “informed decision”? Or can they literally just manipulate you as much as they want and you don’t even know what you’re doing until it’s too late? 

 

from my very little experience, operating at this level implies informed consent, so yes people don't even know until it's too late.

[Takingcharge]

20 hours ago, freeform said:

There are several names for this realm - the main thing is that it’s said that this is the realm of ‘higher level’ beings with karma… Karma that they can only process once they incarnate - or by passing it to incarnate humans in return for trinkets and favours 

Wow, i had never heard of this,  is this why certain entities actively seek out human contact.

 

are these the types of spirits engaged in shamanism?  Im not very fammiliar w it but i often heard it said that in shamanism they have access only to the realms pretty close to this one.  A bit lower and a bit higher 

[freeform]

On 22/10/2022 at 1:58 PM, Takingcharge said:

Wow, i had never heard of this,  is this why certain entities actively seek out human contact.

 

are these the types of spirits engaged in shamanism?  Im not very fammiliar w it but i often heard it said that in shamanism they have access only to the realms pretty close to this one.  A bit lower and a bit higher 

I don’t want it to sound overly dramatic!

 

The reality is that you can (and do) take on karma quite easily - for instance if you strongly identify with a certain culture… or nationality… or your family line - you’ll carry some of the karmic weight of that family/nationality/culture through this identification.

 

It’s a normal part of life - it happens all the time - so please don’t take what I said as some sort of scary malevolent trickery on the part of these entities.

 

The fact is that we get attached to stuff… to certain mental states, certain identities and so on. This is quite normal. It’s arguably better to be attached to the benevolent qualities of some deity, than something else…

 

But for a spiritual cultivator - any strong karmic entanglement will hold you back - whether it’s ‘bad’ or ‘good’. Most of us are not spiritual cultivators - I even have my doubts about my commitment to it myself (even though I’ve dedicated my life to it).

 

This isn’t another thing you have to worry about! 

[freeform]

It’s just when people claim to offer a spiritual path - but then they try to affect their reality through various deals with entities - that has little to do with spiritual cultivation. It’s just further self-identification - just on a more ‘supernatural’ level.

[liminal_luke]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:56 AM, freeform said:

 

It doesn’t mean you’ll necessarily be pulled to the lower realms - it’s just the sort of power gained can make you ‘drunk’ on the power - and you end up making choices that can lead you to ‘hell’.

 

 

I don't know much (OK, anything) about demons and entities, but being good at stuff -- say one's job or an artistic pursuit -- can have a downside depending on how a person orients themselves vis a vis the ability.  The use of power, any power, demands maturity.  Who we are isn't what we do, a fact that is easy to forget when we're getting lots of kudos for various accomplishments.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by liminal_luke

[freeform]

14 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I don't know much (OK, anything) about demons and entities, but being good at stuff -- say one's job or an artistic pursuit -- can have a downside depending on how a person orients themselves vis a vis the ability.  Who we are isn't what we do, a fact that is easy to forget when we're getting lots of kudos for various accomplishments.  

Ah do you mean like getting ‘drunk’ on approval?

 

Yeah it’s a weird quirk… anything that helps to bolster ‘the self’ particularly the ‘lower’ aspect of the self (that revolves around status/sex/power) - it tends to make people kinda drunk and carried away.