Healing the wounded child within

[Bindi]

22 minutes ago, old3bob said:

its a tough one like trying to think of evolution to the non-evolutionary  (aka The Great Tao)  Anyway I do not dismiss the process of evolution as some schools apparently do nor the non-evolutionary.

 

I don’t claim to know anything about the Dao, instead I find myself interested in what I can see and know. This child isn’t the Dao (I don’t think it is anyway), so it is evolutionary. Once attained it may remain, impossible to be undone, like I can’t unborn myself, but I am quite certain it needs to be created, it’s not pre-existent, only it’s potential is pre-existent. So it’s not the equivalent of the ‘Self’, or original nature, or any pre-existent unchanging entity. 

 

22 minutes ago, old3bob said:

  Btw, an implication to me is that the "child" can not gain or lose the non-evolutionary that is more or less hidden within its core, "standing..." uncreated and unchanging for if it could be created or changed then it could also be destroyed, 

 

 

Maybe, but in evolutionary terms as a group we don’t lose our evolutionary gains, instead we build on them. An individual might be born that has lost an evolutionary gain on a personal level, but as a whole we tend to progress. In evolutionary terms, maybe we as we are are not the end of the line, we’re not evolutionarily fulfilled, it seems to me that there is a whole subset of people trying to progress and we have different methods that we’re trying. 

 

22 minutes ago, old3bob said:

so then we can come back to question of does the child have to exist for the uncreated and unchanging to exist?  I'd say No,  yet to manifest as much as possible through all realms, Yes .  (for me pointed to with, "to be far")

Btw there is the saying in chapter 42 of: "Only Nothing can enter no-space" indicating to me an evolution to non-evolutionary (wherein nothing is gained or lost)....along with being a saying that mind can not really wrap its head around. 

To me, the best way to know what is at the end of the path is to put one foot in front of the other and see where the path leads. 

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

I don’t claim to know anything about the Dao, instead I find myself interested in what I can see and know. This child isn’t the Dao (I don’t think it is anyway), so it is evolutionary. Once attained it may remain, impossible to be undone, like I can’t unborn myself, but I am quite certain it needs to be created, it’s not pre-existent, only it’s potential is pre-existent. So it’s not the equivalent of the ‘Self’, or original nature, or any pre-existent unchanging entity. 

 

Maybe, but in evolutionary terms as a group we don’t lose our evolutionary gains, instead we build on them. An individual might be born that has lost an evolutionary gain on a personal level, but as a whole we tend to progress. In evolutionary terms, maybe we as we are are not the end of the line, we’re not evolutionarily fulfilled, it seems to me that there is a whole subset of people trying to progress and we have different methods that we’re trying. 

 

To me, the best way to know what is at the end of the path is to put one foot in front of the other and see where the path leads. 

 

I'd quote or paraphrase the idea that, "The Tao goes far and returns", even though it never really left.  I tend to have a non-dualistic yet not in denial of dualism take.  How well that crosses over into more Traditional Taoism I'm not sure, although at some point I'd say that (apparent) differences are not always hard and fast rules of definition.  

[Mark Foote]

On 9/26/2022 at 12:39 PM, blue eyed snake said:

 

Reading your post makes me think of what my teacher once told me. In my own words as I understood it:

when a child is born the central channel/ great thoroughfare is open. Growing up that channel slowly closes due to the  pains of hurt and misunderstanding kids encounter. In general when kids are about 9 or 10 years old it closes. By doing practice (hereby he meant the chigung as he taught it) that channel will open and you will find the accumulated 'mud' from your childhood ( and everything that layered on top of that)
 

 

 

"Growing up that channel slowly closes"--

Brought to mind the strange disparities between allopathic and osteopathic medicine, in particular the allopathic notion that the bones of the skull and the sacroiliac joints fuse, versus the belief among some osteopaths that they do not (Sutherland and Raymond Richard).

 

Went looking for the age at which allopaths feel the sacroiliac joints stiffen or fuse, found:
 

... In both sexes, SIJ mobility decreases from birth to puberty but then, according to Brooke, increases transiently in adult females to a peak at about 25 years old (Brooke, 1924), while in males, joint mobility remains low, especially in middle- and old-aged men. More recent studies partially contradict the age-related findings on decreasing SIJ mobility. Pelvic motion of males and females was investigated by roentgen stereophotogrammetric motion analysis (RSA). RSA is a technique for measuring small movements, and is regarded as the gold standard for determining mobility in orthopedics (Kibsgård et al. 2012). In several studies, Sturesson et al. (1989, 1999, 2000a,b) applied this technique to measure the mean SIJ mobility around the sagittal axis in patients with PGP. As expected, the average mobility for men is about 40% less than for women. However, with age, there was no detectable decrease in total mobility in either gender in patients (up to 50 years old). In fact, there was a significant increase of mobility with age for both ‘supine to sitting’ and ‘standing to prone with hyperextension’ tests in both sexes. It should be noted that the latter studies analyzed mainly patients under the age of 50 years, possibly influencing the results.

(The sacroiliac joint: an overview of its anatomy, function and potential clinical implications; A. Vleeming, M. D. Schuenke, A. T. Masi, J. E. Carreiro, L. Danneels, F. H. Willard; First published: 19 September 2012; https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1469-7580.2012.01564.x; https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-7580.2012.01564.x)

 

 

That's interesting, about the decrease of mobility in women through puberty, that reverses to age 25.

I've been working with the SIJ (sacroiliac joint) in my sitting practice, lately.  I'm writing about that now:
 

I’m partial to Yuanwu’s “turning to the left, turning to the right, following up behind” (Case 17 “The Blue Cliff Record”). If I relax the muscles of the lower abdomen and the muscles behind the pelvis, and calm the stretch of ligaments between the pelvis and the sacrum, gravity can yield a “turning to the left, turning to the right”.

 

“Following up behind” I believe refers to support engaged behind the sacrum by “turning to the left, turning to the right”:
 

There is… a possible mechanism of support for the spine from the displacement of the fascia behind the spine, a displacement that may depend on a push on the fascia behind the sacrum by the bulk of the extensor muscles, as they contract.

 

(A Way of Living)

 

Zen Master Omori Sogen cautioned against “putting physical pressure on the lower abdomen by force”.  That caution against the use of force also applies for the gluteus muscles that stretch the fascia behind the sacrum, and for the extensors behind the sacrum that press as they contract.

 

With calm in the senses connected with balance, gravity can enter into the stretch of the ligaments between the pelvis and the sacrum, and a reciprocity may ensue in the activity of the lower body.

“Following up behind”, like “turning to the left, turning to the right”, is an embrace of automatic activity generated through the free placement of consciousness:

 

There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages.

 

(Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

 

The early childhood memories are there, and as Daniel Goleman pointed out in "Emotional Intelligence", they are likely to trigger behavior that feels totally compulsive.  Nevertheless, the resolution of these memories, or at least a peaceful coexistence with them,  may ultimately depend on unlocking "the central channel".  I think the osteopaths (and other healers) are probably right when they say that some memories are stored in the fascia and other tissues of the body, and that those memories require a physical as well as a mental approach to access and release.

 

 

[oak]

On 23/07/2022 at 1:53 AM, Bindi said:

 

The iner child as ‘sub-personality’, a more personalised entity than the ‘subconscious’. Many must question if this notion of a discrete sub-personality is necessary, but having sought my inner child for decades, without realising fully that this was what I was doing, 

 

First of all thanks for the topic, Bindi 🙂

During many years I've resented the term "inner child". For me it was just another appealing tittle on the cover of a bad book written with the intention of making money at the expense of ignorants.

The concept, however, made some sense to me. It's easy to understand that subcounsciouly there was a part of me that got very wounded by having negligent uncaring parents. With maturity the realization that I was already old enough to be my own mother and father helped me in moving forward with my life and detach from old resentments.

In 2015/16 however, much to my surprise I "dreamed" with my inner child. Not much action happened during the dream but I do remember seeing and feeling him. It was overwhelming. The feeling of purity and innocence of the creature that I once was, was so strong, so undescribable that made me wake up in tears. With the dream came as well the understanding that everything that was built on top of that pure essence was fake and a neurotic construct to cope with the world and that it was my responsability not to let that child be wounded by anyone.

It's the second time that I post this experience in this forum. If it helps someone, somehow...Great!

[Bindi]

2 hours ago, oak said:

 

First of all thanks for the topic, Bindi 🙂

During many years I've resented the term "inner child". For me it was just another appealing tittle on the cover of a bad book written with the intention of making money at the expense of ignorants.

The concept, however, made some sense to me. It's easy to understand that subcounsciouly there was a part of me that got very wounded by having negligent uncaring parents. With maturity the realization that I was already old enough to be my own mother and father helped me in moving forward with my life and detach from old resentments.

In 2015/16 however, much to my surprise I "dreamed" with my inner child. Not much action happened during the dream but I do remember seeing and feeling him. It was overwhelming. The feeling of purity and innocence of the creature that I once was, was so strong, so undescribable that made me wake up in tears. With the dream came as well the understanding that everything that was built on top of that pure essence was fake and a neurotic construct to cope with the world and that it was my responsability not to let that child be wounded by anyone.

It's the second time that I post this experience in this forum. If it helps someone, somehow...Great!

This is a  very good story, walking in the shoes of your child self is a perfect way to start the journey towards the Self IMO, and of course I fully agree that everything built on top of that is fake and a neurotic construct, created to protect ourselves but which ends up suffocating us.To me facing the people that have created our pain in this life is the authentic first step. How have you gone with this journey since your dream? 

[oak]

5 hours ago, Bindi said:

This is a  very good story, walking in the shoes of your child self is a perfect way to start the journey towards the Self IMO, and of course I fully agree that everything built on top of that is fake and a neurotic construct, created to protect ourselves but which ends up suffocating us.To me facing the people that have created our pain in this life is the authentic first step. How have you gone with this journey since your dream? 

 

You thread is giving me the opportunity to reflect again on this experience. A few good years have gone by meanwhile... At the time it was important for me to realize that the toxic relation I was in was sacrificing the "inner child". That gave me the strenght and determination to end it. A new awareness of having that " pure essence" inside of me and try to respect it and protect it as best I can started and that's it. Life continues to be brutal in the outside world and the "inner child" doesn't seem to have a chance of surviving in that state of purity and innocence in it. The most I think I can due is to try to nurture and respect it as much as possible in me and in others. Don't know if this answers your question.

[blue eyed snake]

21 hours ago, oak said:

The concept, however, made some sense to me. It's easy to understand that subcounsciouly there was a part of me that got very wounded by having negligent uncaring parents. With maturity the realization that I was already old enough to be my own mother and father helped me in moving forward with my life and detach from old resentments.

In 2015/16 however, much to my surprise I "dreamed" with my inner child. Not much action happened during the dream but I do remember seeing and feeling him. It was overwhelming. The feeling of purity and innocence of the creature that I once was, was so strong, so undescribable that made me wake up in tears.

 

thank you, i did meet my inner child in a comparable way, i found her lonesome and distressed and started to actively care for her. At first i felt like an idiot doing it, but it has had a very healthy effect. lavishing all the love and care i had missed out on was healing. I could feel her ( my) fear that it would be taken away again, poor neglected kid.

 

that was long ago

 

looking back now on that episode

 

I see it as the first story/the first shaping of ego. Through my life the storyline has changed many times but that very first story has been the foundation of all the others. As a lot of it lies so deep buried that there no or hardly any conscious memories. But the emotions are there and when you reach out you can find those.