Seeking personal power - Good or bad?

[Shadao]

I was browsing Youtube and found this video:

Aside the talk of "misusing knowledge" and "stolen teachings", I got thinking about how he seemed to imply that seeking power(to use it) is bad.

 

[Or at least, that was the understanding I got from part of his talk, sometimes I just have issues understanding other languages]

 

So I decided to ask those of you that may already be way advanced in your own journey/path, do you really think that it is wrong for one to actively seek power?

[Cobie]

You might want to look at @Starjumper 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Cobie

[Cobie]

Power is just a party trick. Love is what it’s all about. 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Cobie

[Kojiro]

Personal power is a necessary and good thing, as long as you don't do evil things with it

[paul_willis]

2 hours ago, Shadao said:

I was browsing Youtube and found this video:

Aside the talk of "misusing knowledge" and "stolen teachings", I got thinking about how he seemed to imply that seeking power(to use it) is bad.

 

[Or at least, that was the understanding I got from part of his talk, sometimes I just have issues understanding other languages]

 

So I decided to ask those of you that may already be way advanced in your own journey/path, do you really think that it is wrong for one to actively seek power?

 

Seeking power solely for the sake of seeking power is vulgar.

 

If you have something you must do, the power to do it is required and necessary to achieve that end.

 

Power should only ever be a means to an end.

 

So many people want power at any cost, but have no idea why they are even seeking it, and certainly not what they would use it for should they get it.

 

[silent thunder]

Individual humans do not have power.

 

Power is exhibited in force through natural processes.  Lightning, Rivers, Oceanic motion, Wind, Tornadoes, Hurricanes are powerful.  Humans are not.

 

The Human race exhibits some degree of power, but individual humans are fragile in comparison to nature.  They do not wield power.

[Hannes]

Power is in the sense of in relation to others is bad.
If you seek power to dominate and control others, you might be misguided.

 

If you seek power to free yourself, to grow and nurture yourself.
To seek and understand and eventually to transcend,

then that same power is guided well.

 

From my understanding power flows from concentration. It is neutral.

Intention is what guides.

 

In terms of power the saying that the pen is mightier than the sword holds true.

Because although a sword can cut and kill, with a pen you can write down a daily reminder,

which can aid you and others to concentrate your will and accomplish things beyond the cycles of nature.

a written word can contrate your thought each morning

a written word can remind you when your mind is murky.

If you understand this well, you won't ask if power corrupts because you'll understand everything is a becoming and thinking in terms of material power is irrelevant in the end.

You cannot acquire genuine power without changing. 

[Tosti]

Power is simply the ability to do something. You may be born with some powers and acquire others later and perhaps even lose some. What have you lost and what have you gained? How are they important if you don't know how to use them? If you do something good with them is the power itself, then, good? What good is it if you can't help others, and how can you help others if you can't help yourself? So if you discover you have "power," then what should you use it for? Should you use it at all?

 

In any case every major religion will give you the answer without a riddle, but be aware that most don't follow the deepest ideals of their own belief system even when those systems have already given them the answer to this question.

 

 

[doc benway]

7 hours ago, Shadao said:

 

Aside the talk of "misusing knowledge" and "stolen teachings", I got thinking about how he seemed to imply that seeking power(to use it) is bad.

 

[Or at least, that was the understanding I got from part of his talk, sometimes I just have issues understanding other languages]

 

So I decided to ask those of you that may already be way advanced in your own journey/path, do you really think that it is wrong for one to actively seek power?

 

 

My own take is that there are two things here, personal power and seeking. In terms of growth there is a need for seeking and for personal power when we experience indecisiveness and lack. There must be some fuel and strength of ego to recognize and engage in the process of transformation, and a lot of dedication to see it through.

 

And at some point what is sought is found and the seeker can rest in certainty and confidence. At this point the idea of personal power is moot as the true source of power is experienced and is not limited by persona.

 

For many focusing on personal power can become a major obstacle, feeding the factors that cut us off from the source and objective. This is where a teacher, wisdom teachings, and a community of practitioners can be invaluable.

[exorcist_1699]

The ubiquitous qi is the source of our power . Although it is difficult to sense it  outside of our body ,  fortunately  somewhere in our body , at the dantiens,  we can sense and mobilize it  relatively easier .   Qi  cures our  diseases , delays aging or  even  reverses it , enables us to be very smart ..etc  , all  are the proofs of its presence .  I think it is  nothing wrong to grasp our own  destiny in our own hands by using such power . 

 

Although to those  bad guys,  sickness , aging and death are things necessary to tame  them , and they deserve such sufferings. To  people who get a decent mind and  who follow ethics , saying that it is aging , diseases or death gives  meaning to their life  is  merciless , in fact  , stupid . Maybe people who are from other cultural legacies succumb to such a saying ,  mainly because they do not know of any other alternative , hardly can it  be true for the Daoists.

Edited August 9, 2022 by exorcist_1699

[zerostao]

Some “powers” are illusions, some are traps; all types of things, substantial and insubstantial are labeled as “power”

seeking these types of so called power are at best a waste of time and can prove harmful.

 

Seeking True Power, trying to abide with True Power is a worthy pursuit. 
The best, actually.

[Kojiro]

4 hours ago, zerostao said:

Some “powers” are illusions, some are traps; all types of things, substantial and insubstantial are labeled as “power”

seeking these types of so called power are at best a waste of time and can prove harmful.

 

Seeking True Power, trying to abide with True Power is a worthy pursuit. 
The best, actually.

and what is true power according to your conception?

[zerostao]

10 hours ago, Kojiro said:

and what is true power according to your conception?

fair question. There are many ways to phrase the answer.

One way to say it is to be perfectly aligned// in harmony with Dao

[Tosti]

1 hour ago, zerostao said:

fair question. There are many ways to phrase the answer.

One way to say it is to be perfectly aligned// in harmony with Dao

..and as in many ancient cultures we see that Virtue is aligned with Power. The twin pillars of Truth and Beauty, or Virtue and Justice,  reflect the lowest denominator upon the earth, awesome as they are. But if we have Power, or Beauty, or Justice, what good does it do us if we don't move with the Way of things, or God? We express ourselves in this world of forms and there are forms beyond this in the other world of forms. But what are we trying to do, paint pretty pictures in a world of pictures or to see the canvas beyond? And perhaps the canvas itself is part of the picture? Power is illusory. The real question is what happens when you die, or even before then, since there is no real difference. This is meant as a reply to the question itself, not specifically with Zerostao, who has asked reasonable questions. I put it here because it addresses a more specific thing.

[Eduardo]

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Edited February 7 by Eduardo
Delete

[Desmonddf]

Lets say you seek personal power and achieve some degree of power.

 

What happens them?

 

Do you keep seeking power?

 

The power you sought, what does it do to you, and what is the cost of mantaining it?

 

If you seek power because of a personal trauma, need or ilusion, you'll only become more and more engrossed in it.

 

If you seek power with a reason, to get somewhere, then you'll need to be able to use the power you have as a tool.

 

But what can be used to control power?

 

What can be used to submit it, so it will be a tool in your hands?

 

Using power to control your power (like using willpower to control your control over external qigong) will only lead you deeper in this rabbit hole.

 

Something which is not power must be used to control your power.

 

Some people say it is love. Love can indeed control power, but then what controls love?

 

What happens when you are out of love to give ?

 

It is not a good answer, as it will limit your control over your power to a feeling, and feelings are fleeting.

 

A bad day can be your ruin, the ruin of your power/empire or the ruin of those precious to you.

 

I say it is bonding. Having bonds which are clear and precise. Which remain in the face of fleeting feelings, and which are wide and safe. 

 

As long as your bonds keep your power in check, you can have power. 

 

However, what controls your bonds, then?

 

If left for themselves, they will just grow randomly and may become abominations as well....

 

This is a cascade of thought which relates to the nature of checks-and-balances. 

 

Not political ones, but the ones from inside. 

 

The end result is harmony. You can and you MUST have as much power as your own harmony with the world and nature allows to. 

 

Power will be one of the checks-and-balances, one of the Tools which bring you inner balance. 

 

However, in order to achieve this kind of power, there can be no limitating and linear thinking and control.

 

You cannot think exclusively of ways to gain power and how to reach your objectives.

 

Otherwise, you would be being controlled by your thoughts, and then there is no harmony - as your thoughts themselves must be tools to reach balance. 

 

Planning and seeking must come naturaly, without desire. When you need power to regain balance, you must "seek" it and "plan" how to get it in the same way you "seek" your kitchen when you're thirsty, and "plan how to" get a glass of water to quench that thrist. 

 

I believe this is mostly what it means "not to seek power". 

[Lairg]

The uncontrolled desire for power is out-grown quite early in the spiritual path.  As soon as it is clear that Life has meaning, it is obvious that arbitrary use of power is a backward step

 

Then right relationship becomes much more important - until that too is achieved. 

[old3bob]

measures of personalized individual power is from the greater power that gives or lends it when aligned with it,   the bottom line is that the true Source of power has us, and so to ever think we can have great power for just our own designs is just more ego. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by old3bob

[mcoolio]

Are some people destined to have power? Why?

[Lairg]

5 minutes ago, mcoolio said:

Are some people destined to have power? Why?

 

Some beings that incarnate as human are here to assist the processes of the planet.  Some of them can usefully  lead.  Others work more on the inner planes

[liminal_luke]

The folks who run Movnat, a "natural movement" training program, have a great motto: Strong to be helpful.  True strength, when coupled with humility and put towards compassionate ends, is beautiful to behold.  I'd like to be powerful enough to help an elderly neighbor move boxes of books down a flight of stairs, powerful enough to speak up when I witness injustice, powerful enough to support the people I love -- physically, emotionally, financially -- whatever it takes.  Nothing wrong with this.

 

The pursuit of power gets a bad wrap when it's sought as a compensatory mechanism for low self-esteem.  Many psychologically injured people seek to have power over others as a way of shoring up an otherwise fragile sense of self.  They cheat customers, brawl in the streets, seek magical powers through esoteric Taoist practices, and craft snide posts on online forums.  (Just kidding: they never craft snide posts on online forums.  Nothing to see here folks.)  

[freshpondtaiji]

My teacher says there are only two reasons that can block practitioners from making internal spiritual progress over time:

 

1) not enough effort, or

2) enough effort, but outer self attributes the growth to itself (Spiritual Pride)

 

A desire for Power can be a strong motivator, and that might be better for a beginner than something like satisfied complacency that keeps them "asleep," where the desire for Power will at least push someone to make an effort to do something.

 

Later on, that same thing can be a real hindrance if a person does not work to refine their motives, as gaining Power can easily feed a person's Spiritual Pride and that will completely block a person's progress.

 

Also seeking esoteric Powers can be quite dangerous in that it can attract entities offering "shortcuts" to such Powers that can seem quite attractive, and will cost the practitioner more than they realize until it is too late.

 

 

 

 

[Mig]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:03 PM, zerostao said:

fair question. There are many ways to phrase the answer.

One way to say it is to be perfectly aligned// in harmony with Dao

This is all confusing. Could you elaborate in plain English how can something be perfectly aligned? Does that exist being perfect in anything? It sounds that you compare yourself to the Dao to pretend to be in harmony. What kind of Dao is that?

[Lairg]

On 4/6/2023 at 5:03 AM, freshpondtaiji said:

seeking esoteric Powers can be quite dangerous in that it can attract entities offering "shortcuts"

 

It is very common that adverse entities organize themselves and influenced humans to distract/disable useful humans.

[freshpondtaiji]

8 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

It is very common that adverse entities organize themselves and influenced humans to distract/disable useful humans.

 

My understanding is not just "useful" humans, but any human has certain potential that some adverse entities would be interested in appropriating for themselves. Normally there are safeguards that deny them the opportunity, but overly negative people, or people who dabble in the occult looking for Powers, etc etc can unwittingly open up the window to that by their actions.

 

It seems like spiritual common sense and enough to know on the topic for me to simply avoid dark alleys/"questionable spiritual neighborhoods" I don't need to be exploring at the moment.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by freshpondtaiji